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naomi

When men hate women

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Online I tend to come across expressions of hatred, or belittling of women by men far more than vice-versa.

I understand part of the contributing landscape...a reaction to progressive feminist mentalities that are unjust towards men but politically acceptable. 

BUT for the level of vitriol, or spite, I have to assume there is more to it than that.

The basic thought I always come around to is...there's plenty of unattractive females who've experienced rejection, or just counted themselves out from the get-go, who, until they just accepted it and rolled with it, would get sad. Maybe some intial anger over guys being shallow, but it's sadness that would be the persistent emotion, before eventual acceptance and moving on.

I know guys like that, not sure if they were ever sad about it, but they figured their looks would NEVER be a selling point and they moved forward.

So who is this guy who feels vitriol and/or spite toward women?

One with long, painful experiences(s) with women? I kind of get that. Who's the guy who hasn't had long painful experiences with women but harbors spite towards them? Is it as simple as purely resenting the ego hits of repeated rejection? Unlike the saddened millions of gals, for whatever reason you don't dust yourself off. You don't do sad, just angry, the problem is never you.

Never move past it. :dunno:

Or?? I have little idea what gives.

 

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well, if you'd stop screeching like a tween who just discovered her breast buds at a Taylor Swift concert that would be a really big f****** plus.

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1 minute ago, wiffleball said:

well, if you'd stop screeching like a tween who just discovered her breast buds at a Taylor Swift concert that would be a really big f****** plus.

Pig 

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6 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

well, if you'd stop screeching like a tween who just discovered her breast buds at a Taylor Swift concert that would be a really big f****** plus.

I see some guys do dumb sh!t, sometimes lots of guys do dumb sh!t. It's not enough to conclude guys inherently do dumb sh!t...especially when I consider the guys existing out there not doing dumb sh!t. 

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There are a lot of females that "do dumb sh!t". Just like guys.

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I'm sensing a spin-off thread in the near future.

Stupid annoying s*** that exists only because of women:*

1. The Kardashians

2. Real House Sluts of Sheboygan, Newark, etc...

3. The Bachelor, Bachelorette, The Rejected on Herpres Island...

 

 

(* And kweers)

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By the way, I reject the very premise of your first paragraph.

 

Jesus, every sitcom the straight white guy is made to look like a buffoon. Same thing with every commercial. Not to mention every comedian or alleged comedian these days. spend five minutes watching Samantha Bee if you can stomach it. Right now, the only politically viable Target is the straight white male. And they can be absolutely crucified for anything. For fucksake, even the way we sit is now belittled ridiculed and criticized.

If your first paragraph is even remotely true or vaguely resembling reality, women and the liberal media would absolutely kill the first guy to try it. Helm, a couple guys tried to say that there have to be different degrees of bad when it comes to sexual misconduct. That maybe just maybe, telling a bad joke is different from double penetrating anal rape. And they were absolutely crucified by women and by the press.

Perhaps you should provide several examples supporting your opening premise.

Because right now you sound like teeny. When she comes out and says crap like why do white people? And then we respond with what black people do and her instant go to response is always will not ALL black people...

Now just replace white people for males and black people for women.

In short, you can't start off with some over broad single paint brush of an entire population and then wine and b**** and Dodge by saying well not ALL women are...

There's going to be exceptions to every generalization. Hell that's the very definition of a generalization. But if you start with the generalization, expect generalizations in return. That's common f****** sense. Or don't ask the question.

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Sorry but I see the complete opposite. Women tend to be the ones belittling others and especially men. There’s a reason why you see the stereotype of mean girls in movies and tv shows. Because it’s extremely common. Most guys on average don’t give a sh1t about posting stuff online. It’s the women who are always and have always been the bigger talkers and complainers. 

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8 hours ago, naomi said:

Online I tend to come across expressions of hatred, or belittling of women by men far more than vice-versa.

I understand part of the contributing landscape...a reaction to progressive feminist mentalities that are unjust towards men but politically acceptable. 

BUT for the level of vitriol, or spite, I have to assume there is more to it than that.

The basic thought I always come around to is...there's plenty of unattractive females who've experienced rejection, or just counted themselves out from the get-go, who, until they just accepted it and rolled with it, would get sad. Maybe some intial anger over guys being shallow, but it's sadness that would be the persistent emotion, before eventual acceptance and moving on.

I know guys like that, not sure if they were ever sad about it, but they figured their looks would NEVER be a selling point and they moved forward.

So who is this guy who feels vitriol and/or spite toward women?

One with long, painful experiences(s) with women? I kind of get that. Who's the guy who hasn't had long painful experiences with women but harbors spite towards them? Is it as simple as purely resenting the ego hits of repeated rejection? Unlike the saddened millions of gals, for whatever reason you don't dust yourself off. You don't do sad, just angry, the problem is never you.

Never move past it. :dunno:

Or?? I have little idea what gives.

 

I don't see any specific examples included with this post.  How do I know this isn't just like all the African Americans who see racism in every nook and cranny of their life? 

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No one hates women, they just tend to be really annoying and mostly wrong in political discussions which are common discussions online these days. 

1. Woman always vote for politicians which give more handouts. They choose security over liberty each and every time without fail.

2. They vote for politicians who start wars that they never have to fight in

3. They abort their babies and then will turn around vote to bring in more illegals. Random but true fact: did you know women typically prefer foreign genes as it gives their children greater genetic survivability 

4. They always without missing a beat vote for “feels over reals”. And women are 100% to blame for completely destroying the education system by contaminating it with opinion vs. science 

And the last bastion is STEM, which have been continually dropping standards to bring in more women. And all of this will get worse if men don’t stand up.

Theres hundreds and hundreds of examples of this in pre-feminist pollution of curriculum. Don’t be fooled men and women are very different.

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Guys that havent had much luck getting girls generally tend to have a very bitter attitude toward women.

Also guys that have been screwed over by divorce. I refused to ever consider marrying a woman with stay-at-home mom aspirations because those women are the ones that screw guys the most. The divorce system is heavily slanted against men, which no doubt, creates some anger and bitterness.

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It's all sour grapes on both sides. Men are required to be the agresssor from a young age. A couple of early rejections has a profound effect.

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I should clarify that I had comments in mind. Places where people shoot the breeze. Here, YouTube, Twitter, etc. There's more males than females posting in those arenas, including YouTube, so that is worth acknowledging. I've just never come across a female expressing a thought against men that wasn't part of what comes across as an indoctrinated identity politics viewpoint, but rather it was just her individual view of the entire other sex as being less than. If I browse through any of the above mentioned spots on occasion over a week, I'm guaranteed to run into that a handful of times from males.

The flip-side which has been mentioned here I am aware of and figure is ammunition for what I'm talking about. But because the hate is so bitter, it seems to be more than that, it seems personal and emotional. I haven't been able to process it any other way than "this is a terribly entitled feeling human being with lots of malice in their heart who can't handle rejection." 

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The greatest misogynist that I've ever seen or known tended to be guys who could get any women he's wanted and treated them like dirt.

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1 hour ago, Brad GLuckman said:

Guys that havent had much luck getting girls generally tend to have a very bitter attitude toward women.

Also guys that have been screwed over by divorce. I refused to ever consider marrying a woman with stay-at-home mom aspirations because those women are the ones that screw guys the most. The divorce system is heavily slanted against men, which no doubt, creates some anger and bitterness.

How did you draw this conclusion?  My wife stayed at home when our kids were young because we thought it was best for them and our family.  Do you think such women just want to eat bon bons and fock the pool boy?  :dunno:

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2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

How did you draw this conclusion?  My wife stayed at home when our kids were young because we thought it was best for them and our family.  Do you think such women just want to eat bon bons and fock the pool boy?  :dunno:

No, I should have specified they screw guys the most during a divorce, alimony, child support etc.

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1 hour ago, TimmySmith said:

It's all sour grapes on both sides. Men are required to be the agresssor from a young age. A couple of early rejections has a profound effect.

I don't know about the overall op, but I think there is a lot of truth in the bolded.  When I was a freshman, I said hello to a good girl friend who was talking to an upperclassman, capt of the football team.  I remember it so well.  Said Hi, she looked at me, and turned right back to the capt.  It wasn't a rejection of a physical relationship, just a friendship.  Whenever people say men always go after the younger women, I remember women have always gone after older men.  When we were seniors that girl asked me to the prom on camera, and I said no.  She was stunned.  Real reason I said no was because I knew I would fall for her, and get a bit heartbroken when we went off to college.  My buddy went with her, dated all summer, and got his heartbroken.  

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2 hours ago, iam90sbaby said:

No one hates women, they just tend to be really annoying and mostly wrong in political discussions which are common discussions online these days. 

1. Woman always vote for politicians which give more handouts. They choose security over liberty each and every time without fail.

2. They vote for politicians who start wars that they never have to fight in

3. They abort their babies and then will turn around vote to bring in more illegals. Random but true fact: did you know women typically prefer foreign genes as it gives their children greater genetic survivability 

4. They always without missing a beat vote for “feels over reals”. And women are 100% to blame for completely destroying the education system by contaminating it with opinion vs. science 

And the last bastion is STEM, which have been continually dropping standards to bring in more women. And all of this will get worse if men don’t stand up.

Theres hundreds and hundreds of examples of this in pre-feminist pollution of curriculum. Don’t be fooled men and women are very different.

Can you share where you get the STEM information?

I worked in a public HS with strong STEM performance for 3.5 years. National competition winners. There are more males involved but it's not a stark difference. The best student they've had in one of the national competitions, who is basically why they won that year and it was their strongest win ever (I'm friends with one of the coaches; his words) is a girl. And her strength and performance was far enough in front of field it wasn't questionable. The funny thing is this girl (I also dealt with her for entirely different reasons) is cute and sweet. This little anecdote is not to say girls are better in STEM by any means, but in the environment I was familiar with, both the girls and boys involved were smart and having fun...all genuinely enjoying science...the girls weren't doing it to be a girl doing STEM. In general more boys than girls favor STEM though, and that's fine, and it should not be seen as a problem. 

As for the politics, I actually really agree with that being a problem and happen to work with a group of guys and gals (with a mix of conservative and liberal social values) who are actively working on this. It's not the core focus, but it's an acknowledgement. Personally I think there's powerful people who want our culture subverted and divided because strong sovereign nations are against their agenda. It's not as organic as naive foot-shooting political ideology in of itself bringing everything down, it's been a work in progress, but women have been the better enablers.

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4 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

I don't know about the overall op, but I think there is a lot of truth in the bolded.  When I was a freshman, I said hello to a good girl friend who was talking to an upperclassman, capt of the football team.  I remember it so well.  Said Hi, she looked at me, and turned right back to the capt.  It wasn't a rejection of a physical relationship, just a friendship.  Whenever people say men always go after the younger women, I remember women have always gone after older men.  When we were seniors that girl asked me to the prom on camera, and I said no.  She was stunned.  Real reason I said no was because I knew I would fall for her, and get a bit heartbroken when we went off to college.  My buddy went with her, dated all summer, and got his heartbroken.  

My first "real" girlfriend was the summer before 11th grade in HS.  She went of for a month with her family to western PA, and while there sent me a long letter about this other guy she met and started dating.  I was devastated.  She came back and wanted to get back together so we did, and she was my first... many things.  But I never got over that letter.  Eventually I broke up with her, and she asked who the other girl was.  I said nobody, I just couldn't do it.  Here I was a 16 yr old getting secks and bjs whenever I wanted, but I gave it up.  She didn't understand.  I've honestly struggled with emotional commitment ever since.

I feel blessed that I found my wife who is my soulmate.  But I very easily could have become that bachelor player dood who never got married.

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13 minutes ago, naomi said:

Can you share where you get the STEM information?

I worked in a public HS with strong STEM performance for 3.5 years. National competition winners. There are more males involved but it's not a stark difference. The best student they've had in one of the national competitions, who is basically why they won that year and it was their strongest win ever (I'm friends with one of the coaches; his words) is a girl. And her strength and performance was far enough in front of field it wasn't questionable. The funny thing is this girl (I also dealt with her for entirely different reasons) is cute and sweet. This little anecdote is not to say girls are better in STEM by any means, but in the environment I was familiar with, both the girls and boys involved were smart and having fun...all genuinely enjoying science...the girls weren't doing it to be a girl doing STEM. In general more boys than girls favor STEM though, and that's fine, and it should not be seen as a problem. 

As for the politics, I actually really agree with that being a problem and happen to work with a group of guys and gals (with a mix of conservative and liberal social values) who are actively working on this. It's not the core focus, but it's an acknowledgement. Personally I think there's powerful people who want our culture subverted and divided because strong sovereign nations are against their agenda. It's not as organic as naive foot-shooting political ideology in of itself bringing everything down, it's been a work in progress, but women have been the better enablers.

It's a bell curve thing.  Men are on average better at spatial relationships than women.  This capability is a cornerstone of STEM work.  That doesn't mean there aren't women at the far right of the curve who can and do excel in it, but it is more the exception than the rule.  My wife is one.

When I was at MIT in the late 80s, they were on a mission to get to 50-50 male-female ratio.  My freshman year had 33% women.  Each year after had a 5% increase, with 48% my senior year.  They would never admit this, but somebody in admissions eventually said something like "hey, we are supposed to be the best engineering school in the world, and we are losing that with this SJW position."  So after that the ratio went back down.  

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59 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

It's a bell curve thing.  Men are on average better at spatial relationships than women.  This capability is a cornerstone of STEM work.  That doesn't mean there aren't women at the far right of the curve who can and do excel in it, but it is more the exception than the rule.  My wife is one.

When I was at MIT in the late 80s, they were on a mission to get to 50-50 male-female ratio.  My freshman year had 33% women.  Each year after had a 5% increase, with 48% my senior year.  They would never admit this, but somebody in admissions eventually said something like "hey, we are supposed to be the best engineering school in the world, and we are losing that with this SJW position."  So after that the ratio went back down.  

 

Important preface: I would not be surprised at all if this is accurate. I suck at spatial stuff so it's not hard for me to imagine my gender leans that way, though it could just be me :D

I think wherever you're on a mission to get a certain ratio though, you're not going to get the best of that particular group you're looking for.

This is interesting because I'm more familiar with studies making the point you are:

Quote

The issue doesn’t appear to be girls’ aptitude for stem professions. In looking at test scores across 67 countries and regions, Stoet and Geary found that girls performed about as well or better than boys did on science in most countries, and in almost all countries, girls would have been capable of college-level science and math classes if they had enrolled in them.

But when it comes to their relative strengths, in almost all the countries—all except Romania and Lebanon—boys’ best subject was science, and girls’ was reading. (That is, even if an average girl was as good as an average boy at science, she was still likely to be even better at reading.) Across all countries, 24 percent of girls had science as their best subject, 25 percent of girls’ strength was math, and 51 percent excelled in reading. For boys, the percentages were 38 for science, 42 for math, and 20 for reading. And the more gender-equal the country, as measured by the World Economic Forum’s Global Gender Gap Index, the larger this gap between boys and girls in having science as their best subject. (The most gender-equal countries are the typical snowy utopias you hear about, like Sweden, Finland, and Iceland. Turkey and the United Arab Emirates rank among the least equal, according to the Global Gender Gap Index.)

Fake research? I wouldn't be surprised if it really just reflects who tests better on standardized tests, which are limited metrics.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/

The overall article is about how women in countries who focus on equality have the lowest presence in STEM...because that's their choice. And the less focus on equality a country has, the more women are involved in STEM.

Anyway, I'm not necessarily challenging the bell curve significance with iam90s, but I'm curious about proof STEM standards are being lowered.

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I chalk it up to more women in the workplace / catching up to men economically, feminism and female sexual positivity, and just general depersonalization of people due to the Internet. Women generally don’t need or rely on men as much economically anymore and they have more options for dating / marriage or not or no strings sex. Then you have dating apps like Tinder that are just about looks and finding a mate.It probably feels to guys today like the sexual marketplace has been tilted against them. I am really glad to not be a 20 something today. 

I also see this backlash as part of a larger trend toward people being angry and tribal about politics, race, economic status etc. and finding echo chambers online that reinforce their beliefs. It’s not coincidence that the red pill / incels / men going their own way crowd are usually bigots or that the alt right crowd uses the same lingo (snowflake SJW cuck etc.). 

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25 minutes ago, MDC said:

I chalk it up to more women in the workplace / catching up to men economically, feminism and female sexual positivity, and just general depersonalization of people due to the Internet. Women generally don’t need or rely on men as much economically anymore and they have more options for dating / marriage or not or no strings sex. Then you have dating apps like Tinder that are just about looks and finding a mate.It probably feels to guys today like the sexual marketplace has been tilted against them. I am really glad to not be a 20 something today. 

I also see this backlash as part of a larger trend toward people being angry and tribal about politics, race, economic status etc. and finding echo chambers online that reinforce their beliefs. It’s not coincidence that the red pill / incels / men going their own way crowd are usually bigots or that the alt right crowd uses the same lingo (snowflake SJW cuck etc.). 

The idea that females will date you if you have money, so that is something to harness, particularly if you happen to be unattractive...I could see causing some guys to get bitter. They buy into this overgeneralized and cynical explanation of who women are, and if they find themselves alone after trying to harness what douchebags say, they're potentially missing the fact that maybe their personality is a big hurdle. Maybe there's something off-putting about them picked up on an intuitive or visceral level. It seems like there's this whole manosphere explanation out there on the internet for young guys to subscribe to as to why they're alone, and it continually sidesteps what their personality might be. Or if it gets close to personality related thoughts, it's something narrowly focused, like the beta vs. alpha stuff. 

I'm sure there's lots of greedy and vain gals out there who have cold reasons for assessing guys; I reckon there's big pieces of truth in all this stuff. It's just that there's an explanation out there for young men that equates to blaming everything on women...they don't like me because I don't have enough money, etc.,..all women have materialistic criteria and are devoid of character, etc. When you might be part of the problem but there's an entire school of thought that just puts it all on women, and as a result you're maliciously bitter...that's f****** sad.

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35 minutes ago, naomi said:

 

Important preface: I would not be surprised at all if this is accurate. I suck at spatial stuff so it's not hard for me to imagine my gender leans that way, though it could just be me :D

I think wherever you're on a mission to get a certain ratio though, you're not going to get the best of that particular group you're looking for.

This is interesting because I'm more familiar with studies making the point you are:

Fake research? I wouldn't be surprised if it really just reflects who tests better on standardized tests, which are limited metrics.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/

The overall article is about how women in countries who focus on equality have the lowest presence in STEM...because that's their choice. And the less focus on equality a country has, the more women are involved in STEM.

Anyway, I'm not necessarily challenging the bell curve significance with iam90s, but I'm curious about proof STEM standards are being lowered.

And I am in no way trying to sound disrespectful to you because you are a woman. I think you need to realize women like you are the exception and not the rule. 

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35 minutes ago, MDC said:

I chalk it up to more women in the workplace / catching up to men economically, feminism and female sexual positivity, and just general depersonalization of people due to the Internet. Women generally don’t need or rely on men as much economically anymore and they have more options for dating / marriage or not or no strings sex. Then you have dating apps like Tinder that are just about looks and finding a mate.It probably feels to guys today like the sexual marketplace has been tilted against them. I am really glad to not be a 20 something today. 

I also see this backlash as part of a larger trend toward people being angry and tribal about politics, race, economic status etc. and finding echo chambers online that reinforce their beliefs. It’s not coincidence that the red pill / incels / men going their own way crowd are usually bigots or that the alt right crowd uses the same lingo (snowflake SJW cuck etc.). 

If you are 20 something and just halfway decent looking with good hygiene and a decent enough job, there has never been a easier time than now to get a date. 

Two things to know in life...

1. Men who talk about getting laid all the time and if you are or aren’t having sex... they are the ones not getting laid. Fact. 

2. People in the office who always complain about being broke, are the ones with the most money 

Your forced incel comments every single chance you get when anyone brings up this topic, which is actually a very important topic and it should be discussed..make it painfully obvious to me you had a hard time closing the deal in your younger years. 

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40 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

If you are 20 something and just halfway decent looking with good hygiene and a decent enough job, there has never been a easier time than now to get a date. 

Two things to know in life...

1. Men who talk about getting laid all the time and if you are or aren’t having sex... they are the ones not getting laid. Fact. 

2. People in the office who always complain about being broke, are the ones with the most money 

Your forced incel comments every single chance you get when anyone brings up this topic, which is actually a very important topic and it should be discussed..make it painfully obvious to me you had a hard time closing the deal in your younger years. 

I stand by my answer, Grumpy.

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Women bosses suck. Never wrong, play favorites, insecure. Sure many men fit that bill as well, but it seems all women do. 

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Let's put it this way, for all the talk about women in politics and it's their time and you've got media outlets openly pressing for female candidates, who are the two biggest names and most popular figures in the Democratic party right now? Biden and buttigieg.

 

Holy s***, how did spell check do that one right?

 

because the dirty little truth that doesn't exist out on Twitter that even women don't want to see other women in such positions. Most of the women I've talked to in a workplace don't want to work for female bosses.

 

And they damn sure don't want the ones running around like AOC or any of them claiming that they're "a nasty woman!"

I think the Democrats are honestly over playing the ovary card.

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First of all, you're asking a group of people here who hate people period. Not just women but hate everyone. Other races, other religions, people who disagree with them politically, people who get in their way at the grocery store, and on and on and on. So you are coming to the wrong source for an insightful answer to a question like this.

Second, your first sentence answers your question, ONLINE. 

It is not the real world and doesn't represent the majority of peoples true feelings. Online interactions lack civility. And our civility is what separates us from the animals. Civility is what makes the world go around.

Bottom line is, 99% of the losers you encounter online that act that way would never say anything to anyone in person. Hell, most of them never leave their moms basement other than to go to the store or work. If they even do that.

Normal people, people who have a pleasant disposition and enjoy the company of others, people who you want to be around do not spend a bunch of time on the internet. It is a place for losers and breeding ground of misery. Just leave them to it and get out and get you some!😊

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I came in here to make the joke of this just being a bunch of Wiffleball quotes but Wiff beat me to it.

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On 4/27/2019 at 3:34 PM, naomi said:

The idea that females will date you if you have money

If you're ugly, 100% this is fact. Unless they in turn are ugly or fat, then they have to take what they can get

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38 minutes ago, edjr said:

If you're ugly, 100% this is fact. Unless they in turn are ugly or fat, then they have to take what they can get

Yep. Absolutely. Go to the rich part of your town. Go to the fancy mall or country club. You're gonna see a bunch of bald fat men with hot ass wives, and younger hotter mistresses.

Then go somewhere in the third world. You'll really see it there. 

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1 hour ago, edjr said:

If you're ugly, 100% this is fact. Unless they in turn are ugly or fat, then they have to take what they can get

Stop it. You're going to ruin that beautiful love story about Anna Nicole Smith and the crypt keeper.

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10 minutes ago, wiffleball said:

Stop it. You're going to ruin that beautiful love story about Anna Nicole Smith and the crypt keeper.

If I had to take a guess, I would say she looks like that little smart ass on Tales from the Crypt these days as well. 

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1 hour ago, bostonlager said:

If I had to take a guess, I would say she looks like that little smart ass on Tales from the Crypt these days as well. 

Nah, to quote the Bible. Though the flesh May rot, silicone is eternal.

🍅🍅

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11 hours ago, edjr said:

If you're ugly, 100% this is fact. Unless they in turn are ugly or fat, then they have to take what they can get

Yes, there are women who will date men they find unattractive, if they have money. There are also women who won't date men they're not capable of feeling actual attraction toward. Plenty of those women exist. There are guys convincing each other, and it seems pretty successfully, that those women don't exist. It's like they're in a support network that is keeping them down by painting all women as character deficient. They get philosophical and it really is all women from their POV. That's crappy but.. whatever. When these guys feel comfort in their numbers, reinforce the narrative with each other to the point it's gospel truth, and get bitter and malicious, it's disturbing.

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2 hours ago, naomi said:

Yes, there are women who will date men they find unattractive, if they have money. There are also women who won't date men they're not capable of feeling actual attraction toward. Plenty of those women exist. There are guys convincing each other, and it seems pretty successfully, that those women don't exist. It's like they're in a support network that is keeping them down by painting all women as character deficient. They get philosophical and it really is all women from their POV. That's crappy but.. whatever. When these guys feel comfort in their numbers, reinforce the narrative with each other to the point it's gospel truth, and get bitter and malicious, it's disturbing.

It's not a character deficiency.

A woman shouldn't date or marry a broke ass deadbeat.

Most men will date marry as hot as they can pull, character comes second. Is that shallow? Sure. But there it is.

Its not just the black and white anna Nicole cases either. It's often more subtle. Like if I'm a 6, I can maybe pull a 7. If I'm a rich 6, now 8s and 9s are in play.

It's just part of the overall attraction game. 

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