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cyclone24

How do you reconcile your views vs your actions?

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So this came up the other day with some friends of mine talking about pro life and pro choice. I've been very pro choice I would say most of my life but recently the arguments to me just are not standing up. I find myself leaning way more pro life lately as he view.

 

Now having said that I'm also a person that was with someone that decided to have an abortion. We were both really young and she didn't want it, I knew I wasn't ready but my head was also spinning and didn't realize what say I had or that sort of thing.

 So how do you reconcile having a viewpoint versus the actions had in the past that conflict?

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Everyone grows and their views change as they get older. Some people get wiser while some get dumber. 

 

That being said, when I was young my ex gf (who was my current gf at the time) tried to say she was pregnant when I was talking about breaking up with her. Made me think I’d need to convince her to get an abortion. She was lying of course. Just didn’t want me to break up with her. I thought it was wrong then but as a 15-16 year old I thought I had no other choice as I didn’t want my life essentially ruined. Now, I still view it as wrong unless there are special occasions like rape, life threatening for the mother, baby would only live a small bit because of medical complications, etc. 

 

So I think it’s wrong and people shouldn’t do it because I believe the baby is alive and deserves to live. That being said, have the abortion option available. I might not agree with it but it doesn’t affect me so I kind of don’t care if it’s legal or not. However, I DO believe the father of the child should have a say since it’s half his as well. It can’t just be the Mother’s decision. Equality and all. The women want the government to not force them be Mother’s but expect the government to force men to be the fathers. A guy can want the abortion but the woman doesn’t and guess what? The child is born and the guy isn’t allowed to see the child or only when the mom approves it while the dad also has to pay the mom money every month. The reverse is hardly ever true. And if the woman wants the abortion while the dad doesn’t then she still gets her abortion. Women complain but the system is skewed in their favor a lot 

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Great question. Even a better point. Everyone is a hypocrite at some level. I have a hard time with that on some levels 

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1 hour ago, shorepatrol said:

Great question. Even a better point. Everyone is a hypocrite at some level. I have a hard time with that on some levels 

Yeah. And it's easy to have hard line opinions about things you never have or no longer want or may need to do.

Homosexuality is an easy example. Abortion is another. A guy in his 50s, or married with a vasectomy, has a much easier time making a black and white call on abortion. When it's you're life on the line, it's amazing how much gray there is.

For the record, I had a 19 year old girlfriend 3 years ago think she was pregnant. We had no language in common. She wasn't, but if she had, it would have been abortion time, and not her first.

I had my vasectomy right after that incident.

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58 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Yeah. And it's easy to have hard line opinions about things you never have or no longer want or may need to do.

Homosexuality is an easy example. Abortion is another. A guy in his 50s, or married with a vasectomy, has a much easier time making a black and white call on abortion. When it's you're life on the line, it's amazing how much gray there is.

For the record, I had a 19 year old girlfriend 3 years ago think she was pregnant. We had no language in common. She wasn't, but if she had, it would have been abortion time, and not her first.

I had my vasectomy right after that incident.

That's an excellent point. It's nothing at 44 I have to deal with but 18 year old me did so my view was different.  Never thought of it that way.

So then how do we discern what is actually our view with it's my view because I don't personally have to deal with that? 

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 I didn't read the whole thing. But I get the gist. As you get older and more experienced it's funny how you end up being more and more open-minded. Or just the extreme opposite.

It's that latter category of people who generally suck. It's like the dolly llama said. If you're not busy growing, you're busy dying.

My folks and my aunts and uncles were extremely anti everything. Adultery, living in sin, gay, all of it. Until the s*** happened close to home. That's kind of how that works.

Think I'm making that up? Look at Cheney's views on homosexuality up to and then after him finding out that his own daughter was a donut licker.

What are you going to do? Start cutting off everybody in your life that doesn't meet your rigid views?

I think if you're lucky, the older you get, the more you ignore the little things.

And you realize that most of it is little things.

A funny joke, a peek at beautiful woman, interesting company, even a decent drink. God damn man, you're lucky if you just get one of them per day.

Which probably explains a hell of a lot of why we've lost so many posters here. Great, you pwned such and such in that thread. Fantastic. Good for you.

Some of these guys are in constant Attack Mode around here? Man, what a shity way to live.

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38 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

That's an excellent point. It's nothing at 44 I have to deal with but 18 year old me did so my view was different.  Never thought of it that way.

So then how do we discern what is actually our view with it's my view because I don't personally have to deal with that? 

Try to be open minded. Recognize the fact that our personal experience right here and now is not universal. Try to remember the way we felt about things when we were younger, and why.

My general rule of thumb when talking about the legality of a thing is... Does this affect a third party in any way? If the answer is no, (gay marriage) it should be legal.

I feel we have allowed the government to forbid things they had no business being involved in. Weed is a good example. Why should it have ever been outlawed?

Abortion is a tricky one. With that one, I come down on the pro choice side, mainly because you aren't going to successfully outlaw it, you will only outlaw it for those who can't afford to go where it is legal. And the social damage of forbidding abortion is very high in terms of increased social program costs, crime, etc.

Now obviously this is much easier of a call (to me anyway) when we are talking about a barely formed zygote two weeks into a pregnancy, as opposed to a viable  baby two weeks from being born.

The former should absolutely be legal. The latter should not, absent a health of the mother type issue.

The extremists on both sides are annoying and stupid and should pound sand.

Where is the line exactly? I don't know. I'd be comfortable with first trimester being legal, then banned absent unusual circumstances. If you haven't noticed that you haven't had a period in 90 days, that's pretty much on you. 

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Pro choice is the only way. Sometimes you need an abortion and it’s the right thing to do. Thinking otherwise is plain wrong.

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 If abortion was legal the year I was born, I wouldn't be posting right now. Fawk you if you  think otherwise . You're a fawking idiot if you think different.  I was adopted. 

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I've never had any strong opinions on abortion. For a while, I just agreed with the last person I talked to until I realized both sides made sense.

Now personally, I couldn't handle the emotional trauma if a chick wanted to scrape my kid (or a daughter my grandkid). I would rage and seethe at maximum potency. To me, a woman that's undergone an abortion previously is a massive turn-off. I've no interest in them at all. Of course, I know that I'm wired differently than you guys, when i was dating a girl, my mind was testing to see if I wanted to marry this woman far more than it was about just focking her. I'm not wasiting my time, I'll go find another finger in need of a ring.

As for society at large though... like i said... pretty much neutral. TBBOM gave the best argument in that you don't want these selfish, irresposnible women depending on the government to raise horrible, unwanted kids. Between that and thinking of abortion not as "baby killing" so much as "voluntary liberal genocide" makes it easier to accept the pro-choice position.

Killing babies... no, no.

Liberal genocide? 🤨 I must say, that has a nice ring to it. Sux's avatar is "have your liberal spayed or neutered" and I second the motion.

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3 hours ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 If abortion was legal the year I was born, I wouldn't be posting right now. Fawk you if you  think otherwise . You're a fawking idiot if you think different.  I was adopted. 

I'm not sure if this is an argument For or Against abortion. 

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I reconcile them, striving to always remain philosophically honest and true.

Too many people today assess an action and then justify their response based on vile reasoning; the color of ones skin etc.

Wrong is wrong, regardless of gender, race or religion.

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Most people are the result of inconvenient pregnancies. Pregnancy rates are way down. There used to be an overpopulation argument that pro abortion people used. No more. It's easy to reconcile my views.  My actions are to pray for the lives impacted by abortion. 

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9 hours ago, shorepatrol said:

Great question. Even a better point. Everyone is a hypocrite at some level. I have a hard time with that on some levels 

I'd agree with that but not all of it is hypocrisy. In some cases, it's a matter of explaining your experience to someone contemplating an action that you know to be devastating and/or not as it appears.

It's not being a hypocrite to educate someone not to make the same mistakes that you've made. With that being said, it's all about the delivery.

 

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20 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

So this came up the other day with some friends of mine talking about pro life and pro choice. I've been very pro choice I would say most of my life but recently the arguments to me just are not standing up. I find myself leaning way more pro life lately as he view.

 

Now having said that I'm also a person that was with someone that decided to have an abortion. We were both really young and she didn't want it, I knew I wasn't ready but my head was also spinning and didn't realize what say I had or that sort of thing.

 So how do you reconcile having a viewpoint versus the actions had in the past that conflict?

Talk is cheap. 

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17 hours ago, Djgb13 said:

Everyone grows and their views change as they get older.

If you are a liberal, you are evolving...  If you are a conservative, you are flip-flopping...

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16 hours ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Yeah. And it's easy to have hard line opinions about things you never have or no longer want or may need to do.

Homosexuality is an easy example. Abortion is another. A guy in his 50s, or married with a vasectomy, has a much easier time making a black and white call on abortion. When it's you're life on the line, it's amazing how much gray there is.

For the record, I had a 19 year old girlfriend 3 years ago think she was pregnant. We had no language in common. She wasn't, but if she had, it would have been abortion time, and not her first.

I had my vasectomy right after that incident.

I'm a guy in his 50's who has had a V.  My third child was a surprise, and we never considered aborting her, so I feel like I have some standing here.  I did have the V afterwards, because I realized I was done having kids.  She graduates HS this week.  :cheers:

I also said here recently that my wife and I would advise our daughters to keep a child and that we would help, but ultimately it would be her and the father's decision.

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17 hours ago, shorepatrol said:

Great question. Even a better point. Everyone is a hypocrite at some level. I have a hard time with that on some levels 

The hypocrisy of most seems to be escalating. And bcoz so may have their heads up their ass, they're totally clueless and unaware.

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16 hours ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Yeah. And it's easy to have hard line opinions about things you never have or no longer want or may need to do.

Homosexuality is an easy example. Abortion is another. A guy in his 50s, or married with a vasectomy, has a much easier time making a black and white call on abortion. When it's you're life on the line, it's amazing how much gray there is.

For the record, I had a 19 year old girlfriend 3 years ago think she was pregnant. We had no language in common. She wasn't, but if she had, it would have been abortion time, and not her first.

I had my vasectomy right after that incident.

I was 15 when my girlfriend got pregnant, she was 17.  Abortion was never on the table.  I was 16 when he was born.  I thought it was very easy to maintain my belief when it was my life being altered.

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14 hours ago, tanatastic said:

Pro choice is the only way. Sometimes you need an abortion and it’s the right thing to do. Thinking otherwise is plain wrong.

I'm pro-life, but I'm willing to accept someone getting an abortion... IF THEY'RE the ones paying for it.  My issue is that the pro-choice people want to force me to accept their position while not willing to accept mine.  So, I'm pro-life, you're not (just an in general example "you").  I won't force you to have the kid if you don't force me to pay for you killing it.  Pretty simple really.  I'm willing to accept the exceptions (rape, health, what have you), but I'm not willing to except Joe not wearing a condom, Jill forgetting her pill, or Jack and Jill not wanting to be "burdened".

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When my views and actions don't align, I just lie about one or the other.  Eventually I'll say it so many times, I'll start to believe it.   

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10 hours ago, wiffleball said:

I'm not sure if this is an argument For or Against abortion. 

Lol! 

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31 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

The hypocrisy of most seems to be escalating. And bcoz so may have their heads up their ass, they're totally clueless and unaware.

My hypocrisy goes only so far.

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im against killing babies. pretty easy. everyone knows its focking wrong. i never needed or thought about an abortion. im not an idiot. was always responsible. maybe we should teach morality and accepting consequences for your actions. if i go get focked up and drive and kill people...no one cares about my excuses...i don't get a get of jail free card.

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Just start a new alias. Then you can have any views you want no matter what you’ve said or done in the past. :thumbsup: 

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I'll be pro abortion when the pro abortion crowd agrees that no doubt guilty killers on death row get put down in the same exact manner the baby is. 

Ripped to pieces while alive. 

Deal ?

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21 minutes ago, MDC said:

Just start a new alias. Then you can have any views you want no matter what you’ve said or done in the past. :thumbsup: 

Clearly this is the correct answer. 

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45 minutes ago, porkbutt said:

im against killing babies. pretty easy. everyone knows its focking wrong. i never needed or thought about an abortion. im not an idiot. was always responsible. maybe we should teach morality and accepting consequences for your actions. if i go get focked up and drive and kill people...no one cares about my excuses...i don't get a get of jail free card.

 Well  People often confuse responsible and lucky. If you've banged with any frequency and not come close to impregnating a chick, or drank and drove successfully..is that lucky or responsible if bad things didnt happen? 

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