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naomi

Your truth

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Do you speak your truth in your Calvins? I was just browsing a local news site and saw this ad.

I know some of you will be distracted by the aesthetics. I don't mind seeing her body. Pretty indifferent to it.

But it seems that "speaking my truth" usually means stating your intersectional grievances (you're at the intersection of "marginalized" identities, like gay and black), with arrogance, celebrating the boldness of how different you are, and asserting the deference this should earn you. Only an intersectional person can get away with, let alone be praised for projecting arrogance (ok...maybe Trump too, with his base. Perhaps an equal and opposite reaction). This is a symptom of oppression, you see.

What is way better than "speaking my truth" is speaking...truth.

Objective truth, to the extent it can be discerned. We're falling otherwise.

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This is "my truth" seems to be acknowledging that "this is how these situations impact me, this is what they make me feel, this is how they contribute to my struggling."  Which okay...fair enough, sharing "your" truth does educate...BUT it's also basically excusing the reality that making you feel a certain way...when you do have another option of how you process the situation, and can choose to influence your feelings through reason, is what matters most to you. The mere fact something feels unpleasant means it should be eliminated. But, lots of things feel unpleasant to the extent we let them feel unpleasant. That's how "road rage" develops. Someone chooses not to shrug it off. We don't make the world better by giving all deference to our initial or even later stage feelings about things. People who think in terms of subjective truth seem to think this is how we make the world better. If everyone has the most complete understanding possible of how information or opinion can make someone feel unpleasant, we can work to remove all unpleasantness.  It makes us descend into madness instead though. I'm not saying everyone should reason through the hurt they may feel from something, like racism for example, like the problem is simply with how you process it, being on the receiving end, but something a little more moderate than being hurt by almost anything that could be construed as not an automatic celebration of you...that would help.

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The “my truth” line allows ones perception to be conveyed as reality.  Kinda effed up if you ask me.  I prefer the good ole truth as opposed to ones perceived truth.

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1 hour ago, naomi said:

This is "my truth" seems to be acknowledging that "this is how these situations impact me, this is what they make me feel, this is how they contribute to my struggling."  Which okay...fair enough, sharing "your" truth does educate...BUT it's also basically excusing the reality that making you feel a certain way...when you do have another option of how you process the situation, and can choose to influence your feelings through reason, is what matters most to you. The mere fact something feels unpleasant means it should be eliminated. But, lots of things feel unpleasant to the extent we let them feel unpleasant. That's how "road rage" develops. Someone chooses not to shrug it off. We don't make the world better by giving all deference to our initial or even later stage feelings about things. People who think in terms of subjective truth seem to think this is how we make the world better. If everyone has the most complete understanding possible of how information or opinion can make someone feel unpleasant, we can work to remove all unpleasantness.  It makes us descend into madness instead though. I'm not saying everyone should reason through the hurt they may feel from something, like racism for example, like the problem is simply with how you process it, being on the receiving end, but something a little more moderate than being hurt by almost anything that could be construed as not an automatic celebration of you...that would help.

Hey Old Maid.  Turns out Wiff is alive and well and posting as Naomi.

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I dont get it.  Whats her truth?  That shes a fat cow thats making my health insurance premiums go up cuz of her sugar, hypertension, and arthritic knees?

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2 hours ago, naomi said:

This is "my truth" seems to be acknowledging that "this is how these situations impact me, this is what they make me feel, this is how they contribute to my struggling."  Which okay...fair enough, sharing "your" truth does educate...BUT it's also basically excusing the reality that making you feel a certain way...when you do have another option of how you process the situation, and can choose to influence your feelings through reason, is what matters most to you. The mere fact something feels unpleasant means it should be eliminated. But, lots of things feel unpleasant to the extent we let them feel unpleasant. That's how "road rage" develops. Someone chooses not to shrug it off. We don't make the world better by giving all deference to our initial or even later stage feelings about things. People who think in terms of subjective truth seem to think this is how we make the world better. If everyone has the most complete understanding possible of how information or opinion can make someone feel unpleasant, we can work to remove all unpleasantness.  It makes us descend into madness instead though. I'm not saying everyone should reason through the hurt they may feel from something, like racism for example, like the problem is simply with how you process it, being on the receiving end, but something a little more moderate than being hurt by almost anything that could be construed as not an automatic celebration of you...that would help.

My truth is that ad will not help to sell any underwear.

As for your post...  Too many words to read on a Saturday afternoon..  Ill try again Monday.

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34 minutes ago, Strike said:

Hey Old Maid.  Turns out Wiff is alive and well and posting as Naomi.

LOL I can translate Wiff, but this is some next level foreign language sh!t. Sorry, Naomi.

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5 minutes ago, Bill E. said:

My truth is that ad will not help to sell any underwear.

As for your post...  Too many words to read on a Saturday afternoon..  Ill try again Monday.

Agreed on both counts.  I sleep in Calvin Klein boxers because they don't have that annoying butt crack seam that most other boxers have.  That being said, why on God's green earth would that picture make me want to buy their products?  :dunno:

Good luck rereading it on Monday.  It won't make more sense then.

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4 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Agreed on both counts.  I sleep in Calvin Klein boxers because they don't have that annoying butt crack seam that most other boxers have.  That being said, why on God's green earth would that picture make me want to buy their products?  :dunno:

Good luck rereading it on Monday.  It won't make more sense then.

Maybe someone will translate it by then.  

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30 minutes ago, Bill E. said:

Maybe someone will translate it by then.  

She's saying that this ad is a typical narcissistic grievance which is becoming more and more common today and detracts from the Truth, which is an absolute and objective fact or set of facts. (I think).

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1 hour ago, Alias Detective said:

The “my truth” line allows ones perception to be conveyed as reality.  Kinda effed up if you ask me.  I prefer the good ole truth as opposed to ones perceived truth.

This is pretty much it.

I'm also interested in a defense of it though. It's hard for me to not automatically get the impression that people who use the term "my truth" are actually really selfish and self-deceived about the fact they are. It's pretty arrogant sounding but it's always used along with a grievance narrative.

I suppose a positive/neutral interpretation could be something like: These are my experiences. Because you reject that this even occurs (racism, sexual orientation bigotry, etc), I will tell you of my experience of reality.

Only certain grievance narratives are valid though. I'm not necessarily bothered that there are "intersections of identity" (ie., white and male) that don't get to have grievance narratives taken seriously,  BUT, if part of this deal is a free pass to completely discount an experience of another,  then it makes me dubious about how you process/choose to relay your experiences in the first place. Good faith has been lost, in other words. It's hard for me to accept the education you're trying to give me with your truth, in that case. It comes across like power is your real concern, not justice.

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I took my daughter fishing today. That is my truthful geek club statement of the day. I have no idea what the rest of you are talking about.

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34 minutes ago, naomi said:

This is pretty much it.

I'm also interested in a defense of it though. It's hard for me to not automatically get the impression that people who use the term "my truth" are actually really selfish and self-deceived about the fact they are. It's pretty arrogant sounding but it's always used along with a grievance narrative.

I suppose a positive/neutral interpretation could be something like: These are my experiences. Because you reject that this even occurs (racism, sexual orientation bigotry, etc), I will tell you of my experience of reality.

Only certain grievance narratives are valid though. I'm not necessarily bothered that there are "intersections of identity" (ie., white and male) that don't get to have grievance narratives taken seriously,  BUT, if part of this deal is a free pass to completely discount an experience of another,  then it makes me dubious about how you process/choose to relay your experiences in the first place. Good faith has been lost, in other words. It's hard for me to accept the education you're trying to give me with your truth, in that case. It comes across like power is your real concern, not justice.

This ad is not so much a commercial manipulation to sell more product - it is a social manipulation.  It should not be taken seriously.

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Does anyone else read a naomi post and think it is a bot generating random words?  :dunno:

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3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Does anyone else read a naomi post and think it is a bot generating random words?  :dunno:

Why say what you have to say in 10 words, when you can use a 1000 instead. 🤣

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18 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

This ad is not so much a commercial manipulation to sell more product - it is a social manipulation.  It should not be taken seriously.

I assume CK knows they have a market which will appreciate the social vibe of it. This will expand that market, and the rest of their market will be neutral to it. 

But I'm more interested in the everyday people who this plays well to.

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2 minutes ago, OldMaid said:

Why say what you have to say in 10 words, when you can use a 1000 instead. 🤣

I was mean to naomi and I apologize, but I'm like 180 degrees away from her posts.  I'm an engineer and feel like I have smartz and all, but I read posts like hers in this thread and I just don't get it.  I'm not saying she is wrong or anything, maybe it is some yin/yang thing.  :dunno:

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No need to apologize Jerry. I'm choosing to reason my feelings beyond the hurt you've inflicted here, on this message board. That's my truth :bandana:

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10 minutes ago, naomi said:

I assume CK knows they have a market which will appreciate the social vibe of it. This will expand that market, and the rest of their market will be neutral to it. 

But I'm more interested in the everyday people who this plays well to.

What market?  Hoodrats?  This is a social manipulation.

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1 hour ago, OldMaid said:

LOL I can translate Wiff, but this is some next level foreign language sh!t. Sorry, Naomi.

English, mothafocka.  Can you read it?

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7 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

What market?  Hoodrats?  This is a social manipulation.

Lots of young, mostly urban people with progressive sympathies.

CK is speaking to them/courting them by using their terminology.

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5 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

English, mothafocka.  Can you read it?

I’m pretty sure we can all read it. It’s just not the most concisely written post. 

Thanks for your help, though. 💋

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5 minutes ago, OldMaid said:

I’m pretty sure we can all read it. It’s just not the most concisely written post. 

Thanks for your help, though. 💋

And here I thought you said it's like some next level foreign language .  Retract the claws or you'll get the hose again.

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Just now, Casual Observer said:

And here I thought you said it's like some next level foreign language .  Retract the claws or you'll get the hose again.

Oh for fock’s sake. It’s not like it’s the first time this has been said. 🙄

Go peddle your tough guy act somewhere else.

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9 minutes ago, naomi said:

Lots of young, mostly urban people with progressive sympathies.

CK is speaking to them/courting them by using their terminology.

I doubt it.  Let's check their sales next quarter.

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1 minute ago, OldMaid said:

Oh for fock’s sake. It’s not like it’s the first time this has been said. 🙄

Go peddle your tough guy act somewhere else.

Oh right, Swoosie, like that was real threat.  If it's been said before it doesn't need to be said again.  Stick to roll eyes comments in between slapfights - dissing this girl is unbecoming.

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7 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

I doubt it.  Let's check their sales next quarter.

You don't think they have a market which will appreciate the social vibe they're going for?

If you think they do, do you think this would grow that market?

Do you think people like Jerry who buy Calvins but who aren't in that market will quit buying Calvins on any significant level?

I'm not asking to argue with you. I'm actually curious your answers here, and I'm also curious to hear you explain your "social manipulation" take.  The how and why of their strategy, as you understand it.

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Cromulent, cromulent indeed. The real circumventalizatiinalism here though is if the perplexiatotality of the situation is institutionalizing the neo-golgarity at work? See that’s the real question. Are we really here or is it just binary quastransgressional? See that’s the real issue here. 

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3 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

Oh right, Swoosie, like that was real threat.  If it's been said before it doesn't need to be said again.  Stick to roll eyes comments in between slapfights - dissing this girl is unbecoming.

Are you new here? I’ve got a big hallway, and Naomi writes long and meandering posts. It’s what we do. 

I wasn’t coming for Naomi. I even said sorry in the post.

Now fock off, seriously.

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1 minute ago, naomi said:

You don't think they have a market which will appreciate the social vibe they're going for?

If you think they do, do you think this would grow that market?

Do you think people like Jerry who buy Calvins but who aren't in that market will quit buying Calvins on any significant level?

I'm not asking to argue with you. I'm actually curious your answers here, and I'm also curious to hear you explain your "social manipulation" take.  The how and why of their strategy, as you understand it.

My controversial take is that advertising today is more of a social engineering project that aims to shape social views and attitudes more than it is designed to sell more product.  The recent Gillette ads come to mind as but one example.

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1 hour ago, naomi said:

It's hard for me to accept the education you're trying to give me with your truth, in that case. It comes across like power is your real concern, not justice.

Perseptive

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