Automation wiping out jobs

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

We have had these discussions before, and I don't think we can just stop advancing technologically for the sake of keeping people employed. Still, once all of these companies go automated, who will be left to buy their products? 

[Strike 3,950]

Do you actually think all our jobs are going away to automation?  And, assuming what we do now becomes automated, who do you think will design and build those automaton machines?  Maybe, just maybe, the workforce will need to advance along with the equipment.  As it should be.  It's disgusting to me that we continue to push this mantra of needing illegal immigrants to pick our fruit when that could easily be, and is being, automated.  One of the main reasons for moving forward is so humans don't have to do menial, back breaking work.  We should be designing the systems that do the grunt work, not doing the grunt work.  Unfortunately, we are heading the opposite direction due to illegal immigration and liberal idiots. These people don't look forward.  When I was growing up I saw a society advancing intellectually  and scientifically.  That's not the case anymore and it makes me sad.  Fortunately, I got another 30-40 years in this place and no kids.  I'm a dead end, much like society is at this point.  The only question is how much longer we last.

God damn, this sounds like a  focking Naomi post.  At least I can say I'm drunk.  She has no excuse.

[fandandy 3,311]

12 minutes ago, Strike said:

Do you actually think all our jobs are going away to automation?  And, assuming what we do now becomes automated, who do you think will design and build those automaton machines?  Maybe, just maybe, the workforce will need to advance along with the equipment.  As it should be.  It's disgusting to me that we continue to push this mantra of needing illegal immigrants to pick our fruit when that could easily be, and is being, automated.  One of the main reasons for moving forward is so humans don't have to do menial, back breaking work.  We should be designing the systems that do the grunt work, not doing the grunt work.  Unfortunately, we are heading the opposite direction due to illegal immigration and liberal idiots. These people don't look forward.  When I was growing up I saw a society advancing intellectually  and scientifically.  That's not the case anymore and it makes me sad.  Fortunately, I got another 30-40 years in this place and no kids.  I'm a dead end, much like society is at this point.  The only question is how much longer we last.

God damn, this sounds like a  focking Naomi post.  At least I can say I'm drunk.  She has no excuse.

It's all fine and dandy for the people intelligent enough to design the systems that do the grunt work.  Unfortunately, society is filled with people who are barely qualified to perform said grunt work.  

I agree with your point about fruit pickers.  I think it is bullshit that certain segments of business society can get a free pass when it comes to hiring illegals simply because there is a belief that Americans won't pick fruit.  Bullshit they won't.  Maybe they won't do it for slave wages but I guarantee we would if the price was right.  Why can't I have a Mexican working for me for less than minimum wage?  If they get them I think we should all be legally allowed to have at least one.

[JustinCharge 2,397]

You're talking about a post-scarcity society.  There's been a lot of speculation about such a society and what it would look like.  What's interesting is we actually see post-scarcity societies in some online video games and we can observe human behavior there.  As it turns out, when you drop lots of people into post-scarcity societies, the primary driver motivating people is to experience interesting things.  If you can create a experience that people find interesting, you will drive people to your experience.  If you think about it, this makes sense.  For example, when the television was invented and became ubiquitous, everyone had equal access to the same set of shows and that became a sort of post-scarcity economy in itself.  The determining factor dictating human behavior at that point was which shows were the most interesting experiences. 

However, it is probably impossible to have a post-scarcity economy because there are natural limitations such as available land.  Not everyone can own a mansion on the beach in California.  Not everyone can have a sprawling farm and 100 acres of forest to hunt.  Some people are going to have to settle for a small house in Buffalo, New York. 

I would actually speculate that, in a post scarcity economy, we would still have money, but the money wouldn't be backed by gold, silver, oil, or guns.  It will be backed by LAND.  You could redeem your money for land.  Because land is always going to be scarce.  Let's say I own the entire California seaboard and and then issue promissory notes that can be redeemed for parcels of coastline.  These notes would be money.

[Strike 3,950]

3 minutes ago, fandandy said:

It's all fine and dandy for the people intelligent enough to design the systems that do the grunt work.  Unfortunately, society is filled with people who are barely qualified to perform said grunt work.  

I agree with your point about fruit pickers.  I think it is bullshit that certain segments of business society can get a free pass when it comes to hiring illegals simply because there is a belief that Americans won't pick fruit.  Bullshit they won't.  Maybe they won't do it for slave wages but I guarantee we would if the price was right.  Why can't I have a Mexican working for me for less than minimum wage?  If they get them I think we should all be legally allowed to have at least one.

Many of those people you're talking about could have been highly productive members of society and been on the "design the systems" side of things instead of begging me for money at intersections every day.  They just would have needed better upbringing and guidance.   A hundred years ago it was a stigma to have a child as a teenager, especially out of wedlock.  it still should be but instead we almost encourage teenage sex and children.  Then, when a single parent has 3 kids by the age of 20 we lament how difficult it is for them to get a good education and/or job while having to raise multiple children.  No sh*t.  As I said in my previous post, we should be moving forward but we're not.  Hell, we're legalizing pot everywhere.  Yeah, that's gonna help us move forward as a society. 

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

The human population needs to shrink by a large margin. 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Just now, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

The human population needs to shrink by a large margin. 

No it doesn't.   The value of people would be determined by the interesting content / experiences they can create for others.  People who excel at generating interesting content would grow wealthy.  People not a part of that would grow poor.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Just now, riversco said:

No it doesn't.   The value of people would be determined by the interesting content / experiences they can create for others.  People who excel at generating interesting content would grow wealthy.  People not a part of that would grow poor.

It may not be as true in America. 

I live in asia. Here, population needs to go down by at least half. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,592]

We should definetly be bringing in more uneducated and unskilled people if that's the case. If we don't, the democrats will be unemployed too 

[sderk 1,040]

This is an interesting read on Japan's population decline. It's not about automation, but more about older cultural standards and such. Such as pressuring woman to have children and at the same time pressuring pregnant women and mothers to not take on a job. Other impacts as well and how it could negatively effect their economic future.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2018/09/05/commentary/japan-commentary/need-sense-crisis-depopulation/#.XQ8CIqJKhnI

Quote

Japan’s population is decreasing since it hit a peak in 2008. The total population in 2017 was 126.7 million; since 2010, the nation has lost about 1.4 million people. The shrinking population is having a major impact on our economy and society that will continue over a long-term period, while people tend to feel that its short-term effects are small and negligible — and therefore the policy response may come too late.

That being said, I would not mind if the US started experiencing a timely decline in population growth. Especially for those who have children and can't afford them.  

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

11 minutes ago, sderk said:

This is an interesting read on Japan's population. It's not about automation, but more about older cultural standards and such. Other impacts as well and how it could effect their economic future.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2018/09/05/commentary/japan-commentary/need-sense-crisis-depopulation/#.XQ8CIqJKhnI

That being said, I would not mind if the US started experiencing a timely decline in population growth. Especially for those who have children and can't afford them.  

Problem is, the ones that shouldn't are the very ones that don't stop. 

[shorepatrol 1,735]

24 minutes ago, sderk said:

This is an interesting read on Japan's population. It's not about automation, but more about older cultural standards and such. Other impacts as well and how it could effect their economic future.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2018/09/05/commentary/japan-commentary/need-sense-crisis-depopulation/#.XQ8CIqJKhnI

That being said, I would not mind if the US started experiencing a timely decline in population growth. Especially for those who have children and can't afford them.  

Long live abortion. 

[sderk 1,040]

18 minutes ago, shorepatrol said:

Long live abortion. 

Yep. Abortion of the parents that have children that they want to abort. Because otherwise, they will be repeat customers at the abortion clinic. Killing kids over and over again as a form of birth control.

 

 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

Bacteria and viruses are slowly growing immune to our methods of treating them.  We should begin to see pandemics again in the 21st century.  The damage a modern pandemic can do is kinda unknown because as long as we've had international flights, we've had vaccines.  A global pandemic in the age of flight with no vaccine available could be disastrous. 

I think we have major global pandemics every 300-400 years on average.  Last one was in 1918.  But that was before people flew around the world in hours regularly so I would think they are gonna be very deadly.

Populations with low birth rates will be the hardest hit because they won't recover quickly.  Whites in America and Europe will suffer the most in terms of population loss.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Of course not all jobs are going to be automated, but I think you under estimate how many jobs will be lost to automation. Have you seen the people that work a lot of these jobs? There is a huge portion of the country that will never be qualified for more technological jobs. Blame education. I bet we get balls deep in a crisis before anything is done about it. 

Driving jobs, fast food, Warehouse, all of these industries are going to be wiped of human involvement. So all of those people just move on up to the technical jobs? Wtf kind of logic is that?

[lod001 1,235]

10 hours ago, fandandy said:

It's all fine and dandy for the people intelligent enough to design the systems that do the grunt work.  Unfortunately, society is filled with people who are barely qualified to perform said grunt work.  

This is the problem. We are allowing stupid people to breed freely and a lot of average intelligence people can barely function now as fast as technology changes. What do we do with all these morons?

[jerryskids 5,172]

4 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Of course not all jobs are going to be automated, but I think you under estimate how many jobs will be lost to automation. Have you seen the people that work a lot of these jobs? There is a huge portion of the country that will never be qualified for more technological jobs. Blame education. I bet we get balls deep in a crisis before anything is done about it. 

Driving jobs, fast food, Warehouse, all of these industries are going to be wiped of human involvement. So all of those people just move on up to the technical jobs? Wtf kind of logic is that?

Technology improvements have obsoleted jobs since forever.  Ice delivery, milk men, typewriters... people adapt. 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

9 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Technology improvements have obsoleted jobs since forever.  Ice delivery, milk men, typewriters... people adapt. 

It's entirely possible. I just don't know that there will be available adaptation this time around.

[Herbivore 904]

On 6/22/2019 at 10:06 PM, Strike said:

Many of those people you're talking about could have been highly productive members of society and been on the "design the systems" side of things instead of begging me for money at intersections every day.  They just would have needed better upbringing and guidance.   A hundred years ago it was a stigma to have a child as a teenager, especially out of wedlock.  it still should be but instead we almost encourage teenage sex and children.  Then, when a single parent has 3 kids by the age of 20 we lament how difficult it is for them to get a good education and/or job while having to raise multiple children.  No sh*t.  As I said in my previous post, we should be moving forward but we're not.  Hell, we're legalizing pot everywhere.  Yeah, that's gonna help us move forward as a society. 

this might be the dumbest post this site has ever seen

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

On 6/23/2019 at 9:43 AM, jerryskids said:

Technology improvements have obsoleted jobs since forever.  Ice delivery, milk men, typewriters... people adapt. 

This.

 

Threats of automation are overblown. New jobs will be created and people will work less hours.

[vuduchile 1,940]

1 minute ago, MTSkiBum said:

This.

 

Threats of automation are overblown. New jobs will be created and people will work less hours.

Yep

 

 

[vuduchile 1,940]

On 6/23/2019 at 10:47 AM, Frozenbeernuts said:

It's entirely possible. I just don't know that there will be available adaptation this time around.

This sort of thing happens over time, allowing people to adapt, switch gears, get more education, etc.  We're not gonna flip a switch next month and magically automate a dozen major industries at the same time.  

[Strike 3,950]

22 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

this might be the dumbest post this site has ever seen

Fat drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life son.

[Herbivore 904]

3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Fat drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life son.

yea, snap out of it

[jerryskids 5,172]

28 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

This.

 

Threats of automation are overblown. New jobs will be created and people will work less hours.

I didn't have time to expand yesterday when I posted my initial thoughts, but I agree that new jobs will be created, that's what always happens.  I also think that this next generation is much more comfortable with technology than my generation (I'm almost 52), so moving to a different tech field will become increasingly easier as a society.

I know I know, a lot of us do something in tech, but that is not a random sample, it is correlated to us doing FF and chatting on boreds like this.  Also being middle aged white males.  I'm talking about the rest of our country. 

[TimmySmith 2,782]

On 6/22/2019 at 10:31 PM, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

It may not be as true in America. 

I live in asia. Here, population needs to go down by at least half. 

America might be the only 100% self sufficient 1st world country.  We really don't need to import anything.  

[Mookz 1,287]

36 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

This sort of thing happens over time, allowing people to adapt, switch gears, get more education, etc.  We're not gonna flip a switch next month and magically automate a dozen major industries at the same time.  

I guess you haven't listened to the ACS with Louis Rosenberg yet. 

It's about how artificial intelligence will cause the obsolescence of not just manual labor, but highly-skilled labor as well.  (For example, radiologists will be almost totally replaced by AI within a couple decades or so.)  And this time, it's going to happen so fast that there will not be time to adapt.

Personally I do think the problem will take care of itself, though.  Once there are no jobs to do, and everything is done for us by AI, people will become both useless and helpless, and we'll sort of lose our collective will, including the drive to continue having children. 

[vuduchile 1,940]

9 minutes ago, Mookz said:

I guess you haven't listened to the ACS with Louis Rosenberg yet. 

It's about how artificial intelligence will cause the obsolescence of not just manual labor, but highly-skilled labor as well.  (For example, radiologists will be almost totally replaced by AI within a couple decades or so.)  And this time, it's going to happen so fast that there will not be time to adapt.

Personally I do think the problem will take care of itself, though.  Once there are no jobs to do, and everything is done for us by AI, people will become both useless and helpless, and we'll sort of lose our collective will, including the drive to continue having children. 

You're right, I haven't caught that show in quite awhile.  I've been listening to baseball coaching podcasts and A Prairie Home Companion episodes on Youtube.  

So, we'll end up like the folks in Wall-E?

[Mookz 1,287]

11 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

You're right, I haven't caught that show in quite awhile.  I've been listening to baseball coaching podcasts and A Prairie Home Companion episodes on Youtube.  

So, we'll end up like the folks in Wall-E?

Precisely.    I think that would be fun for maybe a generation and a half, but people would pretty quickly lose any motivation to procreate. 

 

[jerryskids 5,172]

12 minutes ago, Mookz said:

I guess you haven't listened to the ACS with Louis Rosenberg yet. 

It's about how artificial intelligence will cause the obsolescence of not just manual labor, but highly-skilled labor as well.  (For example, radiologists will be almost totally replaced by AI within a couple decades or so.)  And this time, it's going to happen so fast that there will not be time to adapt.

Personally I do think the problem will take care of itself, though.  Once there are no jobs to do, and everything is done for us by AI, people will become both useless and helpless, and we'll sort of lose our collective will, including the drive to continue having children. 

I'm glad I have the drive to PRACTICE making children. 

Radiology is interesting.  I always figured that the doctors who went into it decided they hate people and chose a specialty where they didn't have to deal with us.  I could see AI impacting it, but are we going to trust a radiology bot to say we have ass cancer without a human radiologist confirming the diagnosis?  No, it will happen over decades as you alluded to.  In that time I would expect doctors to decreasingly enter the field, but those who do should make some cha-ching because there are fewer of them.

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

2 hours ago, Mookz said:

I guess you haven't listened to the ACS with Louis Rosenberg yet. 

It's about how artificial intelligence will cause the obsolescence of not just manual labor, but highly-skilled labor as well.  (For example, radiologists will be almost totally replaced by AI within a couple decades or so.)  And this time, it's going to happen so fast that there will not be time to adapt.

Personally I do think the problem will take care of itself, though.  Once there are no jobs to do, and everything is done for us by AI, people will become both useless and helpless, and we'll sort of lose our collective will, including the drive to continue having children. 

Which is pretty much The Beautiful Ones experiment in a nutshell. I think it’s the most interesting experiment I’ve ever read about.

 

 

[sderk 1,040]

5 hours ago, MTSkiBum said:

This.

 

Threats of automation are overblown. New jobs will be created and people will work less hours.

I agree, But don't know about working less hours part. Computers were introduced to be faster, more accurate, more efficient, less space, etc... Noone in the various fields that use them is working less hours because of them though. More jobs were created. 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

13 hours ago, sderk said:

I agree, But don't know about working less hours part. Computers were introduced to be faster, more accurate, more efficient, less space, etc... Noone in the various fields that use them is working less hours because of them though. More jobs were created. 

Let's look at the top jobs coming up:

1. home health aides - this is hard to replace with computers and is a growing field as the number of elderly increase.  eventually robots will do this but probably not until the late 2040s or so.

2. food prep - this is a HUGE target for robots.  Restaurants are increasingly working on ways for robots to cook and prep meals.

3. nurses - see #1

4. software developers - amazingly, they are already working on developing AI that can code itself and learn by itself.

5. janitors, maids, housekeeping - robots probably won't take these jobs until the late 2040s or so.

6. middle management - increased connectivity and AI could eventually replace this

7. laborers, freight, hauling - this is a huge target for robots

8. waiters / waitresses - this is already getting phased out with touchscreen menus

9. accountants / auditors - could be replaced with strong AI

10. marketing / sales - you'd literally have to replace human charisma.  might be the safest job.

11. call centers - can easily be replaced with advanced AI

12. landscaping / construction - robots probably wont take these jobs until the late 2040s

13. analysts - might be one of the safer jobs but eventually advanced AI will take these too.

[sderk 1,040]

3 hours ago, riversco said:

Let's look at the top jobs coming up:

1. home health aides - this is hard to replace with computers and is a growing field as the number of elderly increase.  eventually robots will do this but probably not until the late 2040s or so.

2. food prep - this is a HUGE target for robots.  Restaurants are increasingly working on ways for robots to cook and prep meals. 

3. nurses - see #1

4. software developers - amazingly, they are already working on developing AI that can code itself and learn by itself.

5. janitors, maids, housekeeping - robots probably won't take these jobs until the late 2040s or so.

6. middle management - increased connectivity and AI could eventually replace this

7. laborers, freight, hauling - this is a huge target for robots

8. waiters / waitresses - this is already getting phased out with touchscreen menus

9. accountants / auditors - could be replaced with strong AI

10. marketing / sales - you'd literally have to replace human charisma.  might be the safest job.

11. call centers - can easily be replaced with advanced AI

12. landscaping / construction - robots probably wont take these jobs until the late 2040s

13. analysts - might be one of the safer jobs but eventually advanced AI will take these too.

food prep - If you are talking fast food, maybe, but no chance with any other restaurants can I see this happening unless you are talking about Star Trek replicators becoming real.

Software developers- I have been acting as and working with software development for years and design and code does not and will not write itself. If there are unique circumstances for some kind of particular activity, sure, but I don't see it across the board. 

waiters and waitresses aren't getting phased out in the least unless you mean restaurants are going to a self serve type of model. The closest you get to this is something like Panera who just put out order  screens for the customers to bypass the register and pay with a credit card. But they never had waiters anyway. I would love to see a Morton's Steak House try to have touch screen self service.

Accountants and auditors already use advanced software but software alone can't replace responsibility for a job where the customer is being checked for processes and quality and pricing and etc according to regulated standards... Plus someone needs to manage and be accountable for any software anyway.

Call centers do use this the most to try to get people to not need an agent, but a large % of people get pissed at the menus or if they get connected to India or the Philippines or wherever. It causes them to be irritable as hell. I have worked on front office designs for call center reps to work with in their jobs. Many people call in because they don't understand a charge, or want to inquire about why their service was turned off, or why their payment didn't go through, etc. Things that people need to look at in the system to help the callers.

One of the best features I like that some companies are doing now is  when they are busy on the phone lines, they offer to call you back when they are free to take your call. They keep you in the queue. 

Out of all these, I think call centers are the most at risk, but in my experience, most call center agents don't like their jobs anyway. 

 

 

 

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

I would love for someone to explain to me how automation is taking jobs away, when there is more automation in present day yet we have our lowest unemployment rate in nearly 4 decades. Anyone? People will buy into anything if it makes them feel smart.  It’s just more scare tactics to make socialized programs more acceptable and it’s stupid. It’s always some dumba$$ liberal who thinks he is some kind of visionary who repeats this nonsense. 

[Cdub100 3,369]

44 minutes ago, iam90sbaby said:

I would love for someone to explain to me how automation is taking jobs away, when there is more automation in present day yet we have our lowest unemployment rate in nearly 4 decades. Anyone? People will buy into anything if it makes them feel smart.  It’s just more scare tactics to make socialized programs more acceptable and it’s stupid. It’s always some dumba$$ liberal who thinks he is some kind of visionary who repeats this nonsense. 

 

Liberal - "Listen here you bigot uneducated factory worker. You're going to lose your job to automation"

Worker - "I'm losing my job because companies are moving them over seas to take advantage of slave labor. Obama didn't care he let it happen and often encouraged it. He told us, "Some jobs are just not going to come back". My job wasn't automated it was moved to someone else" Thanks to Trump we have all time record low unemployment because he's willing to fight for us with tariffs and negotiate with companies to keep jobs here."

Liberal - "Learn to code, Trump is a Russian agent, Orange man bad, Islam is the religion of peace. Bake the cake bigot, wanting to cut your d1ck off is completely normal. Impeach, IMPEACH, IMPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!"

 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

4 hours ago, iam90sbaby said:

I would love for someone to explain to me how automation is taking jobs away, when there is more automation in present day yet we have our lowest unemployment rate in nearly 4 decades. Anyone? People will buy into anything if it makes them feel smart.  It’s just more scare tactics to make socialized programs more acceptable and it’s stupid. It’s always some dumba$$ liberal who thinks he is some kind of visionary who repeats this nonsense. 

What a stupid dopey response. Yep, nothing will ever change. Nope. Just because innovation hasn't taken jobs away, it means it never will. Typical republican to get all defensive when a subject is brought up that they aren't in lock step with. I just like to think of the possibilities, because the technology to actually replace the human element hasn't evolved yet. I don't agree with using more social programs and just giving people money.