Should we have a conversation about gun control now?

[Strike 3,947]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I believe there are a lot of people who tried to commit suicide, failed and then realized they made a mistake.  I think it's important for those people to have a second chance and when they use a gun they rarely ever have that second chance.  That's my point.

Have you been affected by suicide?

Neighbor's daughter committed suicide about 6 years ago.  She was about 19, very pretty, probably about 30C for you sick focks.  Did it over a boy.  I have no doubt she would have gotten over it and lived a productive life had she not committed the act.  I also believe it was her right to do so.  And I don't know the method.  I don't believe it was via gun though.  Suicides make me very sad but I'm not going to try to get in to someone's head to try to know what they're thinking or going through.  I don't believe in trampling on other's rights.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

Just now, Strike said:

Neighbor's daughter committed suicide about 6 years ago.  She was about 19, very pretty, probably about 30C for you sick focks.  Did it over a boy.  I have no doubt she would have gotten over it and lived a productive life had she not committed the act.  I also believe it was her right to do so.  And I don't know the method.  I don't believe it was via gun though.  Suicides make me very sad but I'm not going to try to get in to someone's head to try to know what they're thinking or going through.  I don't believe in trampling on other's rights.

I'm not arguing people's rights at all, just saying I want them to have a second chance.  I think the data shows that people who try committing suicide with something other than a gun have a lower rate of succeeding.  I think that's pretty important.

I lost my best friend to suicide and another one of his friends lost his dad to suicide when we were in grade school.  My best friend was one who did not use a gun though.

[Strike 3,947]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not arguing people's rights at all, just saying I want them to have a second chance.  I think the data shows that people who try committing suicide with something other than a gun have a lower rate of succeeding.  I think that's pretty important.

I lost my best friend to suicide and another one of his friends lost his dad to suicide when we were in grade school.  My best friend was one who did not use a gun though.

Define 2nd chance.  If I register with the government that I want to kill myself but don't, then can I do it the next time I want to?  Or does 2nd chance mean we stop you every time you try because eventually, with ENOUGH 2nd chances, you'll come around?  Meanwhile, you're focking miserable and want to die.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Define 2nd chance.  If I register with the government that I want to kill myself but don't, then can I do it the next time I want to?  Or does 2nd chance mean we stop you every time you try because eventually, with ENOUGH 2nd chances, you'll come around?  Meanwhile, you're focking miserable and want to die.

Second chance means you tried to commit suicide but survived.  Some decide they actually want to live after that happens.  Some people who commit suicide do it as a cry for help.  Some just can't be helped.

[bostonlager 2,457]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Second chance means you tried to commit suicide but survived.  Some decide they actually want to live after that happens.  Some people who commit suicide do it as a cry for help.  Some just can't be helped.

So you want to take MY guns away because others are mentally ill and or retarded? 

No thanks. I have zero sympathy for anyone that takes their own life. They got what they wanted. 

[Strike 3,947]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Second chance means you tried to commit suicide but survived.  Some decide they actually want to live after that happens.  Some people who commit suicide do it as a cry for help.  Some just can't be helped.

You didn't answer my question.  I'm asking about what our policy should be.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

Just now, bostonlager said:

So you want to take MY guns away because others are mentally ill and or retarded? 

No thanks. I have zero sympathy for anyone that takes their own life. They got what they wanted. 

Who said anything about taking your guns away?  Relax Francis.

[bostonlager 2,457]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

Who said anything about taking your guns away?  Relax Francis.

 

38 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not advocating banning guns here but I do know that there would be fewer deaths by suicide if those people did not have access to a gun.  I believe there are stats that support this.

How to you limit access to guns with out taking them away? 

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

You didn't answer my question.  I'm asking about what our policy should be.

I was suppose to get that out of what you said?  I honestly don't know what the policy should be.  I have a concern with keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them.  I know it's impossible to prevent 100%.  People who already own guns could not be prevented from doing it.  People who use someone else's gun could be prevented.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

Just now, bostonlager said:

 

How to you limit access to guns with out taking them away? 

If they already own the gun then there is nothing I suggest doing.  If they have known depression issues then I question whether they should be allowed to purchase a gun.  If they are gettig the gun from someone else then I think that's something that could be prevented.

[Strike 3,947]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I was suppose to get that out of what you said?  I honestly don't know what the policy should be.  I have a concern with keeping guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them.  I know it's impossible to prevent 100%.  People who already own guns could not be prevented from doing it.  People who use someone else's gun could be prevented.

You still aren't answering my question.  You kept saying you want people who want to kill them self to have a 2nd chance.  Now you're saying you'd stop them from EVER being able to do so, at least via gun.  Either you're good with letting them do it after their "2nd chance" or you're not.  If you are the method shouldn't matter.  I knew I shouldn't have gone down this road with you.  You either haven't thought it through or you're being disingenuous when you say "2nd chance".  Have a great day.

[Baker Boy 1,477]

52 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I wonder what the suicide rate would be if those people didn't have access to a gun.  I have a feeling it would be quite a bit lower.

Why? Are you suicidal, do you understand them? 
 

I have no problem with people committing suicide as long a they don’t harm others.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

You still aren't answering my question.  You kept saying you want people who want to kill them self to have a 2nd chance.  Now you're saying you'd stop them from EVER being able to do so, at least via gun.  Either you're good with letting them do it after their "2nd chance" or you're not.  If you are the method shouldn't matter.  I knew I shouldn't have gone down this road with you.  You either haven't thought it through or you're being disingenuous when you say "2nd chance".  Have a great day.

I feel like you are going out of your way to misconstrue things here.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

Just now, Baker Boy said:

Why? Are you suicidal, do you understand them? 
 

I have no problem with people committing suicide as long a they don’t harm others.

No, I'm not suicidal.  I want these people to live and feel better.

[Fireballer 2,369]

3 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I wonder what the suicide rate would be if those people didn't have access to a gun.  I have a feeling it would be quite a bit lower.

US is way down the list in suicides per 100,000 people.  People just find another way.  Australians overwhelmingly hang themselves, but the suicide rate per capita between the US and Australia is miniscule.  Also check out SKoreas suicide rate.  They have the fewest guns of any developed nation.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

Just now, Fireballer said:

US is way down the list in suicides per 100,000 people.  People just find another way.  Australians overwhelmingly hang themselves, but the suicide rate per capita between the US and Australia is miniscule.

Some people do find another way and some people try and are unsuccessful, then change their minds about living.   I wasn't trying to make an argument towards getting rid of guns or that we have more suicides than other countries.  I didn't do a very good job of getting my point across so I'll bow out of the suicide talk going forward.

[Fireballer 2,369]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Some people do find another way and some people try and are unsuccessful, then change their minds about living.   I wasn't trying to make an argument towards getting rid of guns or that we have more suicides than other countries.  I didn't do a very good job of getting my point across so I'll bow out of the suicide talk going forward.

It seemed that you inferred that, given that 50% of US are via firearm, that our rate would plummet if they didnt have access to a gun.  

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

58 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

It seemed that you inferred that, given that 50% of US are via firearm, that our rate would plummet if they didnt have access to a gun.  

I feel that if people who are suicidal did not have easy access to a gun that the rates would go down.  Just because I believe that does not mean that I know how to make it happen or if it's even possible though.

[RLLD 3,455]

9 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I feel that if people who are suicidal did not have easy access to a gun that the rates would go down.  Just because I believe that does not mean that I know how to make it happen or if it's even possible though.

Perhaps, I would need to see the statistics to first determine if I am banning guns....or bridges....or ropes.....or medications.....or.......

Or hey, I have another idea if you will, make mental health a focus of medical benefits for all.....

The amount of crazy out there wont be solved by banning stuff.....

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

Perhaps, I would need to see the statistics to first determine if I am banning guns....or bridges....or ropes.....or medications.....or.......

Or hey, I have another idea if you will, make mental health a focus of medical benefits for all.....

The amount of crazy out there wont be solved by banning stuff.....

Why does everyone jump to banning guns all the time.  I don't want to ban guns, I am a gun owner.  I also completely agree with focusing on mental health.  I don't think many people in America disagree on that one.

[RLLD 3,455]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why does everyone jump to banning guns all the time.  I don't want to ban guns, I am a gun owner.  I also completely agree with focusing on mental health.  I don't think many people in America disagree on that one.

"ease of access to a gun" is typically the lead in, was reading too much into that, you never said to ban anything....

[Strike 3,947]

7 minutes ago, RLLD said:

"ease of access to a gun" is typically the lead in, was reading too much into that, you never said to ban anything....

Well, he did say:

Quote

If they have known depression issues then I question whether they should be allowed to purchase a gun.  If they are gettig the gun from someone else then I think that's something that could be prevented.

I hate using the term, but when you start arbitrarily deciding someone who has "depression issues" as a reason to not allow them to purchase a gun it could be construed as heading down a "slippery slope."  JMHO.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Well, he did say:

I hate using the term, but when you start arbitrarily deciding someone who has "depression issues" as a reason to not allow them to purchase a gun it could be construed as heading down a "slippery slope."  JMHO.

You're right, it is a slippery slope.  That's why I said I don't know how to do it or if it can even work.

[Strike 3,947]

https://www.mvtimes.com/2019/10/11/crossing-guard-relieved-duty-guns-seized/

[Fireballer 2,369]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

https://www.mvtimes.com/2019/10/11/crossing-guard-relieved-duty-guns-seized/

Complete overreach by the PD

[Reality 2,710]

It's always comical how quick the gun control crowd switches the debate to suicide. No need to even respond at that point, you've won, they've lost.

[Baker Boy 1,477]

7 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

No, I'm not suicidal.  I want these people to live and feel better.

How do you know they wouldn’t kill themselves if they didn’t have a gun? That was the question! I don’t give a crap what you want.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

14 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

How do you know they wouldn’t kill themselves if they didn’t have a gun? That was the question! I don’t give a crap what you want.

You obviously don’t understand what I was getting at. 

[Baker Boy 1,477]

48 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

You obviously don’t understand what I was getting at. 

Do you? You said there would be less suicides if there were no guns! I am asking how you know this. You refuse to answer. Pack it up buddy.

[shorepatrol 1,735]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

It's always comical how quick the gun control crowd switches the debate to suicide. No need to even respond at that point, you've won, they've lost.

Bigtime

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

2 hours ago, Baker Boy said:

Do you? You said there would be less suicides if there were no guns! I am asking how you know this. You refuse to answer. Pack it up buddy.

This link covers what I was talking about. There are others that cover it as well. 
https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/

[Baker Boy 1,477]

23 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

This link covers what I was talking about. There are others that cover it as well. 
https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-suicide/

Where does it say that without guns they would not have killed themselves? Women use poison as the number 1 form of suicide. If we removed all poisons would this stop them from committing suicide?

 

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

22 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Where does it say that without guns they would not have killed themselves? Women use poison as the number 1 form of suicide. If we removed all poisons would this stop them from committing suicide?

 

There is a popular misconception that suicide is inevitable, that suicidal ideation is a permanent condition. But most people who attempt suicide do not die—unless they use a gun. Across all suicide attempts not involving a firearm, less than 5 percent will result in death.12But for gun suicide, those statistics are flipped: Approximately 85 percent of gun suicide attempts end in death.13 And the vast majority of all those who survive a suicide attempt do not go on to die by suicide.14 This suggests that a reduction in suicide attempts by firearm would result in an overall decline in the suicide rate.15

[shorepatrol 1,735]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

There is a popular misconception that suicide is inevitable

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

7 minutes ago, shorepatrol said:

I don’t get what’s funny about this. 

[shorepatrol 1,735]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

I don’t get what’s funny about this. 

Sure you do. 

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

2 minutes ago, shorepatrol said:

Sure you do. 

I don’t find talking about suicide all that funny. 

[SUXBNME 1,322]

12 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I feel like you are going out of your way to misconstrue things here.

Strike does do that on occasion.  No question about it. 
I consider him a frined and a very intelligent individual, but he does seem to go out of his way to argue for the sake of arguing sometimes.  (much like myself)

We did have a geek meat one time, and that focker is exactly in real life like one would picture him here, 
Confident, fun, animal lover and unfortunately for me that night, not ghey

[SUXBNME 1,322]

Remember when Suicide was about alcohol and not guns?  I miss those days

 

 

[bostonlager 2,457]

12 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

You obviously don’t understand what I was getting at. 

What exactly are you getting at? It seems to me you want to make people like me jump through more hoops to purchase firearms so loonies don't eat a bullet.