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Hardcore troubadour

Xenophobia

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21 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Religion can be the lens through which looking at and doing evil can be justified.

CAN is the key word in your sentence   

Racism, nationalism, territorialsm and a several other isms CAN all be that lens  

Pretty much any political ideology CAN be that lens  

 

 

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7 hours ago, FeelingMN said:

West Minny suburbs.

I grew up in small town white Indiana.  Worked in factories to put myself through school.  I'm all about small town white America.  Hillbillies are backwards.  Every group has that subsect.  Blacks and.....well, you know.  Muslims.....and, well....maybe you don't know since you think they're all the same.  Whites.....hillbillies and rednecks.  Geek club for short.

And it's not that I'd rather live in a place that has a lot of Muslims.  I'd rather live in a place that has good jobs, good schools, all in all good communities.  Ain't that America?  If perception is reality, then I choose to focus on what's good than what I don't like.  Guess that's where we differ.

These things are in spite of, not because of a Somali Muslim population.  As their numbers grow, your quality of life and the quality of those things you mentioned, will decline.

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You guys can be xenaphobes til your blue in the face, but this is America. We welcome people of all types and you just have to deal with it. And as we become more diverse, these people you are prejudice against will be your neighbors, bosses, date your children, make your laws, etc. 

So go ahead and dislike your reality, but you’re stuck with it as long as you stay in the USA. 

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4 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

You guys can be xenaphobes til your blue in the face, but this is America. We welcome people of all types and you just have to deal with it. And as we become more diverse, these people you are prejudice against will be your neighbors, bosses, date your children, make your laws, etc. 

So go ahead and dislike your reality, but you’re stuck with it as long as you stay in the USA. 

Legally. We welcome them when they come here legally. But nice try. You may step down now. 

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17 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

You guys can be xenaphobes til your blue in the face, but this is America. We welcome people of all types and you just have to deal with it.

I don't. I don't have to welcome bottom feeders, criminals, beggars, mentally unstable families wishing to sell drugs for a living, unskilled and useless lazy handout wanting wasteoids, people who have kids prior to being stable in life and not having the ability to raise them properly. Screw that.

 

And it's not only about fearing them, it's also about not wanting to support their needs given their lack of contribution.

We have enough of those people already. And can't even deal with them yet. Why add more?

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2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Legally. We welcome them when they come here legally. But nice try. You may step down now. 

Xenophobia isn’t about legal vs illegal. And that’s not what the crux of this thread has been about anyway on quick glance. 

You all can try to make all the logical arguments in the world for why xenophobia is good, but it’s all for naught in the USA. Accept your reality, adapt, and you’ll probably be more at peace for it, 

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3 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

Xenophobia isn’t about legal vs illegal. And that’s not what the crux of this thread has been about anyway on quick glance. 

You all can try to make all the logical arguments in the world for why xenophobia is good, but it’s all for naught in the USA. Accept your reality, adapt, and you’ll probably be more at peace for it, 

Xenophobia is about fear. If they go through the vetting process and are deemed not to be criminals I don't fear them anymore, thereby curing the xenophobia . But if they don't, and have no ties to this country, well that makes them something to worry about. Illegals commmitt a lot of violent crimes. A much higher rate than legal immigrants. My xenophobia is rational and justified. Your calling it  racism is not. 

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2 minutes ago, sderk said:

I don't. I don't have to welcome bottom feeders, criminals, beggars, mentally unstable families wishing to sell drugs for a living, unskilled and useless lazy handout wanting wasteoids, people who have kids prior to being stable in life and not having the ability to raise them properly. Screw that.

This is a xenophobia thread. Xenophobia is a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries. You choose to live in a country that allows people from other countries. Tough break for you, but it is what it is. 

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No Muslim refugee has ever killed an American on US soil. :mellow:

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2 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

This is a xenophobia thread. Xenophobia is a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries. You choose to live in a country that allows people from other countries. Tough break for you, but it is what it is. 

It's fear mostly. And yeah, I don't want to pay for them. I don't care what color they are. 

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2 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

This is a xenophobia thread. Xenophobia is a dislike of or prejudice against people from other countries. You choose to live in a country that allows people from other countries. Tough break for you, but it is what it is. 

Go through the proper channels is all I ask. Turn back the rest. Forcefully if needed. I fear the messy rush to our border and the support the left has for supporting it.

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1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Xenophobia is about fear. If they go through the vetting process and are deemed not to be criminals I don't fear them anymore. But if they don't, and have no ties to this country, well that makes them something to worry about. Illegals commmitt a lot of violent crimes. A much higher rate than legal immigrants. 

Well, I am sorry you are afraid. Sure, I may disagree with you, but I actually mean that. I feel like living in fear would be a horrible way to live and I am sorry.  

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2 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

Well, I am sorry you are afraid. Sure, I may disagree with you, but I actually mean that. I feel like living in fear would be a horrible way to live and I am sorry.  

I don't fear for myself. I fear for my fellow countrymen and women who are much more likely to be victims of an illegal alien criminal. And lose their jobs to them. And have their wages suppressed by them. And have to wait in line at the emergency room because of them. 

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1 minute ago, cbfalcon said:

Well, I am sorry you are afraid. Sure, I may disagree with you, but I actually mean that. I feel like living in fear would be a horrible way to live and I am sorry.  

You are so dramatic. Living in fear vs. fearing something is the same to you?

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I fear my school district gettting slammed with a bunch of uneducated , non English speaking, unvaccinated illegal aliens' children and having to direct resources at them instead of the children of  tax paying citizens 

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2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I don't fear for myself. I fear for my fellow countrymen and women who are much more likely to be victims of an illegal alien criminal. And lose their jobs to them. And have their wages suppressed by them. And have to wait in line at the emergency room because of them. 

I’m a little confused. I thought you didn’t fear the ones that were vetted but feared the ones not vetted. Do the vetted immigrants not take jobs, go to the emergency room, etc? 

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3 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

I’m a little confused. I thought you didn’t fear the ones that were vetted but feared the ones not vetted. Do the vetted immigrants not take jobs, go to the emergency room, etc? 

The vetted ones generally have jobs, pay taxes and don't use the ER as their primary care physician. And must be vaccinated. Maybe you should poke your head in an ER in an area with a large illegal population and see what's up. 

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5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

The vetted ones generally have jobs, pay taxes and don't use the ER as their primary care physician. And must be vaccinated. Maybe you should poke your head in an ER in an area with a large illegal population and see what's up. 

Sounds like your issue is with poor people. Xenophobia is a dislike of people from other countries, etc. But maybe I’ve always misunderstood the term. 

Either way, this is the USA, so you are pretty much out of luck on this one. 

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7 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

Sounds like your issue is with poor people. Xenophobia is a dislike of people from other countries, etc. But maybe I’ve always misunderstood the term. 

Either way, this is the USA, so you are pretty much out of luck on this one. 

Yeah, call me crazy because I don't think importing millions of poor people is such a great idea. So let me ask, how many should we absorb here? Ah, you won't answer that. Because you never thought about it. Perhaps you should? I mean, there has to be a limit, right? 

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30 minutes ago, MDC said:

No Muslim refugee has ever killed an American on US soil. :mellow:

How about Muslims in general? Why cherry pick a stat that fits an agenda? Muslims have killed thousands of Americans and should have been rounded up and eliminated for good in 2001. 

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4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yeah, call me crazy because I don't think importing millions of poor people is such a great idea. So let me ask, how many should we absorb here? Ah, you won't answer that. Because you never thought about it. Perhaps you should? I mean, there has to be a limit, right? 

Your concerns are unrelated to xenophobia really, but let’s say you convince me and the entire Geek Club. This is still America, so what do you get out of it?

Best I can tell, your best case scenario is whatever feel-goods you get from a few people agreeing with you that the way America does it is sucky. And you’ve already gotten that, so it that the success you wanted? 

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21 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

Your concerns are unrelated to xenophobia really, but let’s say you convince me and the entire Geek Club. This is still America, so what do you get out of it?

Best I can tell, your best case scenario is whatever feel-goods you get from a few people agreeing with you that the way America does it is sucky. And you’ve already gotten that, so it that the success you wanted? 

How many? 

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CB, a colleague and I periodically get on the topic of what America (err, the USA's) approach to immigration has historically been. As a nation of immigrants we have always had a pro-immigrant ethos, right? 

The melting pot (or mosaic) focus is huge in US history curriculum. But there's a lot of historical examples of not generally being pro-immigrant. Personally I like the idea of the nation being a beacon of hope for well meaning, hard-working people from other lands. But, I'm exploring what is intellectually honest to say about an American ethos on this. There's been very distinct times of "we're going to be screwed if we don't contain this better." Even Anglo-Saxon's were protective against welcoming others with different cultural values (including the great 19th century influx of Germans who didn't have a legacy of esteeming liberty).

This for example...quite a wide swath of time:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924

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1 hour ago, sderk said:

Go through the proper channels is all I ask. Turn back the rest. Forcefully if needed. I fear the messy rush to our border and the support the left has for supporting it.

 

That is fine if you believe that, but this is the opposite of what trump stated which started this debate.

 

Trump told 3 people who were born in this country and a 4th who went through the proper channels to go back to their own country.

 

What you are stating, and what trump is stating is at odds.

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Just now, MTSkiBum said:

 

That is fine if you believe that, but this is the opposite of what trump stated which started this debate.

 

Trump told 3 people who were born in this country and a 4th who went through the proper channels to go back to their own country.

 

What you are stating, and what trump is stating is at odds.

Well, if you want to be clear, he told them to go back to those countries, fix them, come back and show us how. Instead of forcing those shltty policies from countries that are disasters on us.

Your take makes for a juicier story though.

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7 minutes ago, naomi said:

CB, a colleague and I periodically get on the topic of what America (err, the USA's) approach to immigration has historically been. As a nation of immigrants we have always had a pro-immigrant ethos, right? 

The melting pot (or mosaic) focus is huge in US history curriculum. But there's a lot of historical examples of not generally being pro-immigrant. Personally I like the idea of the nation being a beacon of hope for well meaning, hard-working people from other lands. But, I'm exploring what is intellectually honest to say about an American ethos on this. There's been very distinct times of "we're going to be screwed if we don't contain this better." Anglo-Saxon's were protective against welcoming others with different cultural values (including the great 19th century influx of Germans who didn't have a legacy of esteeming liberty).

This for example...quite a wide swath of time:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924

There are valid philosophical discussions to be had (although questioning the way we do things has been labeled anti-American by some prominent people of late). 

This thread however, is an argument In favor of the fear and hatred of strangers and foreigners. 

 

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11 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

That is fine if you believe that, but this is the opposite of what trump stated which started this debate.

 

Trump told 3 people who were born in this country and a 4th who went through the proper channels to go back to their own country.

 

What you are stating, and what trump is stating is at odds.

Go back to their own country and fix it and then come back here and show us. If you're not going to tell the whole story that makes you dishonest. You're dishonest. 

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12 minutes ago, Reality said:

Well, if you want to be clear, he told them to go back to those countries, fix them, come back and show us how. Instead of forcing those shltty policies from countries that are disasters on us.

Your take makes for a juicier story though.

Sorry, I apologize, you got me on semantics.  I stand corrected, I was thinking of the trump supporters chanting "send her back" during his rally.  This is one of many reasons I do not post in political threads. You have to make sure you do not make a typo, spelling mistake, or any sort of grammatical error.

 

The other major reason is even though I think we should expand drilling, logging, coal mining (for exporting) since I also support electric cars and nuclear, solar, and natural gas power domestically I fear getting labeled an environment nut.

 

Similar to this. I think what CSU and whatever california town that just banned manhole covers is extremely stupid, however since I also support legal immigration and have muslim friends and acquaintances I risk being labeled a liberal nut. 

 

 

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Just now, cbfalcon said:

There are valid philosophical discussions to be had (although questioning the way we do things has been labeled anti-American by some prominent people of late). 

This thread however, is an argument In favor of the fear and hatred of strangers and foreigners. 

 

Fear OR hatred. There is a difference. 

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Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

Go back to their own country and fix it and then come back here and show us. If you're not going to tell the whole story that makes you dishonest. You're dishonest. 

Their own country is America. They are as American as you, maybe more even, as they choose to serve our country. 

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1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Go back to their own country and fix it and then come back here and show us. If you're not going to tell the whole story that makes you dishonest. You're dishonest. 

Great job, you win.

 

See my response to reality.

 

I have no idea why i post in political threads.

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1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Fear OR hatred. There is a difference. 

Take it up with the dictionary folk.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia

 

xenophobia

 noun
xe·no·pho·bia | \ ˌze-nə-ˈfō-bē-ə  ˌzē-\

Definition of xenophobia

 

fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

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4 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

Their own country is America. They are as American as you, maybe more even, as they choose to serve our country. 

Yes, legally they are citizens. But this isn't the country they love. They want to radically change it. Billy Joel didn't sing "I'd love you much different than you are now" he said "I love you just the way you are". Because he loved her.  

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2 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

Take it up with the dictionary folk.

 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia

 

xenophobia

 noun
xe·no·pho·bia | \ ˌze-nə-ˈfō-bē-ə  ˌzē-\

Definition of xenophobia

 

fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

Wiki has it different as does other places. My interpretation is hate or fear. Works for me because I don't hate them.  

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1 hour ago, cbfalcon said:

You guys can be xenaphobes til your blue in the face, but this is America. We welcome people of all types and you just have to deal with it. And as we become more diverse, these people you are prejudice against will be your neighbors, bosses, date your children, make your laws, etc. 

So go ahead and dislike your reality, but you’re stuck with it as long as you stay in the USA. 

Some of us do not believe that America is any kind of abstraction like this.  We particularly dislike guys such as you who always prefer "the other" to your existing neighbors, bosses, etc.

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1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Yes, illegally they are citizens. But this isn't the country they love. They want to radically change it. Billy Joel didn't sing "I'd love you much different than you are now" he said "I love you just the way you are". Because he loved her.  

Sounds like this thread is you wanting to radically change it. America welcomes diversity. Its who we are. 

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19 minutes ago, cbfalcon said:

This thread however, is an argument In favor of the fear and hatred of strangers and foreigners. 

I do think there's wisdom in desiring more homogeny of values, and being concerned about reaching a critical mass where demographic shifting erodes that. For the US, that means classically liberal values (liberty, liberty of conscience, representative government, etc).

..That it's not ignoble to recognize that culture can be, in time, shifted for the worse if you don't care if newcomers are moored to the same principals. We don't really mind when any other country regards that wisdom. It's totally their prerogative and even seems to make sense. I would just add that personally I love the idea of offering political asylum, especially for people who are very cognizant of classical liberalism because they've experienced the opposite and want to seek refuge in a society that honors those principals. 

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My phobia isn't about the foreigners who come here. It's that the dikskin democrats are going to steal my tax money and give it to the invading freeloaders.

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22 minutes ago, Reality said:

Well, if you want to be clear, he told them to go back to those countries, fix them, come back and show us how. Instead of forcing those shltty policies from countries that are disasters on us.

Your take makes for a juicier story though.

They’re not from those countries though, which makes it a completely ignorant comment and to most people, racist. 

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