Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 21, 2019 The greatest of them all, Mariano Rivera goes into the hall today. I remember when he came up in 95 and he started mowing them down. Buck Showalter said his biggest mistake was not using him more in the WC round vs Seattle. Then being John Wettlands set up man in that incredible bullpen in 96. Was there when he came off the mound after the 8th in game 6 after mowing down the heart of the Braves order. Was there the next spring when McGuire took him deep in the 9th of the home opener to tie the game. Mariano didn't look back. Then there was Sandy Alomar that year vs the Indians in the playoffs. Couldn't believe that ball went out. But the best was a packed Yankee Stadium and the beginning of Enter Sandman started. Lights out. If you never witnessed the old stadium going nuts when that skinny Panamanian dude came running out with that song blasting you missed out. Then there was 2003 vs the Sox game 7 when he refused to come off the mound. Classic. Pure guts vs that lineup. I could go on, some bad, so many more good memories. He is without peer. There's him and a bunch of other guys. A class act. A winner. A New York Yankee. He stands with all the greats now. Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, Ford. Now Rivera. . Jete will be along soon. Way to go Mo. Simply the best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sderk 1,040 Posted July 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said: The greatest of them all, Mariano Rivera goes into the hall today. I remember when he came up in 95 and he started mowing them down. Buck Showalter said his biggest mistake was not using him more in the WC round vs Seattle. Then being John Wettlands set up man in that incredible bullpen in 96. Was there when he came off the mound after the 8th in game 6 after mowing down the heart of the Braves order. Was there the next spring when McGuire took him deep in the 9th of the home opener to win the game. Mariano didn't look back. Then there was Sandy Alomar that year vs the Indians in the playoffs. Couldn't believe that ball went out. But the best was a packed Yankee Stadium and the beginning of Enter Sandman started. Lights out. If you never witnessed the old stadium going nuts when that skinny Panamanian dude cane running out with that song blasting you missed out. Then there was 2003 vs the Sox game 7 when he refused to come off the mound. Classic. Pure guts vs that lineup. I could go on, some bad, so many more good memories. He is without peer. There's him and a bunch of other guys. A class act. A winner. A New York Yankee. He stands with all the greats now. Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, Ford. Now Rivera. . Jete will be along soon. Way to go Mo. Simply the best. Back in the day when closers pitched for more than 3 outs, Bruce Sutter was simply the best. Sutter pitched 1,042 innings in 661 games. 300 saves. Rivera pitched 1,283.2 innings in 1115 games. 652 saves. Impossible to compare the two eras, but I rank them rather equal as far as their accomplishments in baseball. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, sderk said: Back in the day when closers pitched for more than 3 outs, Bruce Sutter was simply the best. Sutter pitched 1,042 innings in 661 games. 300 saves. Rivera pitched 1,283.2 innings in 1115 games. 652 saves. Impossible to compare the two eras, but I rank them rather equal as far as their accomplishments in baseball. It's true what they say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias Detective 1,179 Posted July 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said: The greatest of them all, Mariano Rivera goes into the hall today. I remember when he came up in 95 and he started mowing them down. Buck Showalter said his biggest mistake was not using him more in the WC round vs Seattle. Then being John Wettlands set up man in that incredible bullpen in 96. Was there when he came off the mound after the 8th in game 6 after mowing down the heart of the Braves order. Was there the next spring when McGuire took him deep in the 9th of the home opener to tie the game. Mariano didn't look back. Then there was Sandy Alomar that year vs the Indians in the playoffs. Couldn't believe that ball went out. But the best was a packed Yankee Stadium and the beginning of Enter Sandman started. Lights out. If you never witnessed the old stadium going nuts when that skinny Panamanian dude came running out with that song blasting you missed out. Then there was 2003 vs the Sox game 7 when he refused to come off the mound. Classic. Pure guts vs that lineup. I could go on, some bad, so many more good memories. He is without peer. There's him and a bunch of other guys. A class act. A winner. A New York Yankee. He stands with all the greats now. Ruth, Gehrig, DiMaggio, Mantle, Berra, Ford. Now Rivera. . Jete will be along soon. Way to go Mo. Simply the best. No Mussina love? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bostonlager 2,457 Posted July 21, 2019 I will take Rob Dibble, Norm Charlton, and Randy Myers. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 21, 2019 58 minutes ago, Alias Detective said: No Mussina love? 58 minutes ago, Alias Detective said: No Mussina love? I like MM. But no rings. It's all about the rings in the big Apple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted July 22, 2019 17 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said: I like MM. But no rings. It's all about the rings in the big Apple. 5 time champ. Meh, that's pretty good but he ain't no Tommy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted July 22, 2019 Poor Mussina, the Yankees bats fell asleep in 2 WS and Yankees fans hold it against him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 38 minutes ago, TimmySmith said: Poor Mussina, the Yankees bats fell asleep in 2 WS and Yankees fans hold it against him. No we don't. Guy was balls in game7 in 2003. Came out of the bullpen and saved the Yanks ass. Don Mattingly is still one of the most popular Yankees, no rings. But we're talking the all timers here. And you have to have some rings. We all know how good Mussina was. Nothing is held against him at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted July 22, 2019 He was definitely the best closer of all time. I don't buy the theory from old people who required more than 3 out saves in order for it to matter. Even if they did, Rivera had plenty of 4+ out saves in his career. It must sting a little that he had the blown saves in 2004. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said: He was definitely the best closer of all time. I don't buy the theory from old people who required more than 3 out saves in order for it to matter. Even if they did, Rivera had plenty of 4+ out saves in his career. It must sting a little that he had the blown saves in 2004. It doesn't sting as far as he's concerned. Blowing 04 was an organizational effort from top to bottom, along with some bad luck. Olerud getting hurt, Clarks ball hopping in the stands for a ground rule double, ARod not able to hit a simple sac fly, Torre skipping Mussina for El Duque because he wanted to line up pitching for the WS, Cashman letting Pettite and Clemens walk at the same time and not trading for Randy Johnson at the deadline, the rainout, and the Red Sox playing great and never quitting. Mo is way down on the list of 04. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted July 22, 2019 What I love about Rivera most is he had one pitch and it was of medium velocity. It was all about movement and location. He should be an example for all future relievers and yet the radar gun always seems to prevail. Even in the Moneyball era. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, drobeski said: 5 time champ. Meh, that's pretty good but he ain't no Tommy And they both were part of historical collapses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 The Red Sox had success against Mo because they had a lot of guys able to grind out at bats and they saw him so much. No team got a longer look at him than Boston. You see a guy like that once in a while you don't have much of a chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted July 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, TimmySmith said: What I love about Rivera most is he had one pitch and it was of medium velocity. It was all about movement and location. He should be an example for all future relievers and yet the radar gun always seems to prevail. Even in the Moneyball era. I think that he had two pitches, sinker and cutter. Both had similar velocity, but had very different movement. Is that what you mean? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,940 Posted July 22, 2019 48 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said: He was definitely the best closer of all time. I don't buy the theory from old people who required more than 3 out saves in order for it to matter. Even if they did, Rivera had plenty of 4+ out saves in his career. It must sting a little that he had the blown saves in 2004. 35 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: It doesn't sting as far as he's concerned. Blowing 04 was an organizational effort from top to bottom, along with some bad luck. Olerud getting hurt, Clarks ball hopping in the stands for a ground rule double, ARod not able to hit a simple sac fly, Torre skipping Mussina for El Duque because he wanted to line up pitching for the WS, Cashman letting Pettite and Clemens walk at the same time and not trading for Randy Johnson at the deadline, the rainout, and the Red Sox playing great and never quitting. Mo is way down on the list of 04. The blooper Gonzalez hit to win game 7 in 2001 was a real stinger. But yes, he was mostly awesome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 1 minute ago, vuduchile said: The blooper Gonzalez hit to win game 7 in 2001 was a real stinger. But yes, he was mostly awesome. Plus that stupid Fockin cut out from the mound to the plate. Buck Showalter put that in when he was managing the D Backs. Thanks Buck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,940 Posted July 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Plus that stupid Fockin cut out from the mound to the plate. Buck Showalter put that in when he was managing the D Backs. Thanks Buck. He also gave up hits to Mark Grace and someone else earlier in that inning. Was it Womack that tied the game? He also hit a batter in that inning. Definitely not Mariano's best day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, vuduchile said: He also gave up hits to Mark Grace and someone else earlier in that inning. Was it Womack that tied the game? He also hit a batter in that inning. Definitely not Mariano's best day. Womack. Smoked it to right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted July 22, 2019 Still a shame that Rivera was the first unanimous entrant into the HoF with all of the great players before him... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted July 22, 2019 30 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said: I think that he had two pitches, sinker and cutter. Both had similar velocity, but had very different movement. Is that what you mean? I think everything was arm angle and grip with him. In other words, he never changed his motion or the speed of his delivery. Plus he worked the top and bottom of the zones instead of the edges. He showed how effective one can be with movement. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, posty said: Still a shame that Rivera was the first unanimous entrant into the HoF with all of the great players before him... A shame? Seriously. You're pretty stupid sometimes. Just because some Sports writers were a-holes doesn't mean the word shame should be associated with him gettIng in first with 100pct. Amazing with all the a-holes in sports these days this guy catches grief. If they had done it before he would have still had 100 pct. Sorry you're salty about the Yankees being the team of the 90's. Take it out on someone else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted July 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: A shame? Seriously. You're pretty stupid sometimes. Just because some Sports writers were a-holes doesn't mean the word shame should be associated with him gettIng in first with 100pct. Amazing with all the a-holes in sports these days this guy catches grief. If they had done it before he would have still had 100 pct. Sorry you're salty about the Yankees being the team of the 90's. Take it out on someone else. Dude relax I knew you would get pissy... I didn't say he probably didn't deserve it, he just shouldn't have been the first at 100% of returned ballots... Plus the Baseball Hall is getting awful anyway when two closers and two mainly DHs make it the same year... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, posty said: Dude relax I knew you would get pissy... I didn't say he probably didn't deserve it, he just shouldn't have been the first at 100% of returned ballots... Plus the Baseball Hall is getting awful anyway when two closers and two mainly DHs make it the same year... Well, if you're lumping Mo in with them, then yeah, you lose. Know what? If Rivera was on the Braves they would have won many titles. And you know it. So don't act like he's some replaceable part. Your team is proof of his greatness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbivore 904 Posted July 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said: The Red Sox had success against Mo because they had a lot of guys able to grind out at bats and they saw him so much. No team got a longer look at him than Boston. You see a guy like that once in a while you don't have much of a chance. Super cool the way he smiled and tipped his cap at the Sox ring ceremony the following year. So smooth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Herbivore said: Super cool the way he smiled and tipped his cap at the Sox ring ceremony the following year. So smooth. Appreciated him even more after that. I always felt the Red Sox fans deserved a title. Just didn't want it to happen like that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted July 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Well, if you're lumping Mo in with them, then yeah, you lose. Know what? If Rivera was on the Braves they would have won many titles. And you know it. So don't act like he's some replaceable part. Your team is proof of his greatness. Unlikely... Their problem was that they couldn't hit in the post-season... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,169 Posted July 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Well, if you're lumping Mo in with them, then yeah, you lose. Know what? If Rivera was on the Braves they would have won many titles. And you know it. So don't act like he's some replaceable part. Your team is proof of his greatness. He's not arguing the 100%, he's saying there were others before him who deserved 100%. There are a handful of voters who every year seem to have the attitude of "well, Ruth and Gehrig and Cobb and Williams and Mays didn''t get in with 100% so...". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
posty 2,296 Posted July 22, 2019 Just now, jerryskids said: He's not arguing the 100%, he's saying there were others before him who deserved 100%. There are a handful of voters who every year seem to have the attitude of "well, Ruth and Gehrig and Cobb and Williams and Mays didn''t get in with 100% so...". Exactly... I know that there is nothing that can be done about the past, but to have Rivera be the first at 100% with all of the greats before, it a shame IMO... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 1 minute ago, jerryskids said: He's not arguing the 100%, he's saying there were others before him who deserved 100%. There are a handful of voters who every year seem to have the attitude of "well, Ruth and Gehrig and Cobb and Williams and Mays didn''t get in with 100% so...". Of course. But it doesn't belong in this thread. It's been done many times before and everyone agrees. You only have to go all the way back to last year with Griffey. Posty is just doing his usual. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, posty said: Exactly... I know that there is nothing that can be done about the past, but to have Rivera be the first at 100% with all of the greats before, it a shame IMO... Really? Is there any doubt that he's the best ever at his position? Who else can you say that about? Bench, Schmidt, Ruth and Gehrig. Unless you're gonna start throwing out Walter Johnson and Honus Wagner and the rest of the old, old guys. I'm not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herbivore 904 Posted July 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Appreciated him even more after that. I always felt the Red Sox fans deserved a title. Just didn't want it to happen like that! As a Sox fan, I thought damn Mo is the king Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cruzer 1,992 Posted July 22, 2019 Mo was not only the man, but he was total class too. Interesting stat: Wettelend is the Rangers all time saves leader with 150.......... he only had 74 with NY. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,169 Posted July 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said: Really? Is there any doubt that he's the best ever at his position? Who else can you say that about? Bench, Schmidt, Ruth and Gehrig. Unless you're gonna start throwing out Walter Johnson and Honus Wagner and the rest of the old, old guys. I'm not. I've argued that Rickey Henderson was the best ever at his position by the largest margin, that position being leadoff hitter. Nobody else comes close. I'll consider Rivera in the mix. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, jerryskids said: I've argued that Rickey Henderson was the best ever at his position by the largest margin, that position being leadoff hitter. Nobody else comes close. I'll consider Rivera in the mix. It's not really a posistion. Baseball is a two way sport except for pitchers and DH. You would have to put him in the outfield and he doesn't make the cut. As great as he was. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,547 Posted July 22, 2019 Joe Nathan has the best save % of all time Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hardcore troubadour 12,588 Posted July 22, 2019 1 minute ago, edjr said: Joe Nathan has the best save % of all time Joe Montana has a 100 pct win pct in the Super Bowl. Brady is still the GOAT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 5,547 Posted July 22, 2019 Just now, Hardcore troubadour said: Joe Montana has a 100 pct win pct in the Super Bowl. Brady is still the GOAT. playoffs is not one game though. Who was the pitcher on the mound when the Yankees blew it against the Dbacks in game 7? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
