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Melvin Gordon update

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20 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

Nope..they dont...but it's a bad look. Guy has outplayed his contract...pay him.

How has he done this???  By not hitting 1,000 yards rushing in 3 of 4 years?  By missing games?  By sitting out while he's still under contract on a team in contention?  Again, you are the only person I'm seeing to say anything like this.  Even the talking heads in the media think Gordon is overrated and shouldn't be paid like he wants.  They offered him $10 million per season.  That's seriously overpaying this guy.  Coming on here and saying it's a bad look and to pay him with that offer being rejected already....  You should take an economics class, or read up on the definition of 'value'.  You would pay him $13 + million per year at the expense of your tremendous defense?  At the expense of not re-signing one of your other studs?  Think before you throw out nonsense. 

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20 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

Nope..they dont...but it's a bad look. Guy has outplayed his contract...pay him.

I disagree.  he has not fulfilled his contract yet.  he deserves to get paid when the contract is done.

at this point the team has done nothing wrong.

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On 9/4/2019 at 10:52 AM, AxeElf said:

Gordon has only rushed for more than 1,000 yards once in his four year career, and he scored 0 TDs as a rookie.  I don't know where he comes off trying to get paid as one of the top 3 RBs in the league.

Oh yeah, maybe he noticed that Jerick McKinnon was the 7th highest paid RB in the league...

if that is the case, that's another boneheaded signing.  I dont think he's worth top 10 money.

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33 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

if that is the case, that's another boneheaded signing.  I dont think he's worth top 10 money.

Odd..has hes produced top 10 numbers.

 

 And are you really siding with owners that a player not fulfilling his contract? Really?

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3 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

Odd..has hes produced top 10 numbers.

 

 And are you really siding with owners that a player not fulfilling his contract? Really?

I could tell from the second sentence that English comprehension is not your strongest suit, but I think he was talking about Jerick McKinnon being the 7th-highest paid RB in the NFL.  He hasn't produced ANYTHING for the 9ers, let along top 10 numbers--he hasn't played a single regular-season snap for them since he was signed!

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1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

I could tell from the second sentence that English comprehension is not your strongest suit, but I think he was talking about Jerick McKinnon being the 7th-highest paid RB in the NFL.  He hasn't produced ANYTHING for the 9ers, let along top 10 numbers--he hasn't played a single regular-season snap for them since he was signed!

 I missed the 2nd sentence of his post. Calm down.

 

You misspelled along...its alone. See how douchy that is? That's you. You're that guy.

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7 minutes ago, cyclone24 said:

 I missed the 2nd sentence of his post. Calm down.

 

You misspelled along...its alone. See how douchy that is? That's you. You're that guy.

It's "douchey."

And I wasn't talking about a typo, I was talking about a sentence you wrote that didn't make any sense, namely "And are you really siding with owners that a player not fulfilling his contract?"

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This is probably the rare instance of both parties doing the right thing for themselves. 

Gordon and other RB's are being forced into this by the NFLPA rookie wage scale and contract duration.  If you're wondering, this is what has earned to date.  $11MM over 4 years.  He's pretty clearly outplayed that as Mike Davis just signed a 2 year $6MM deal with $3MM guaranteed, so Gordon's average salary is about the equivalent of a good backup RB.  In addition the team exercised his 5th year option at $5MM, also below market value for his performance.  Only in the 6th year would he get market value under the franchise tag and that's just a 1-year deal in which the team would likely run him into the ground.  This would make Gordon 27-28 years old.  He would have made roughly $30MM over 6 seasons (16MM on the base contract and about $13MM on the franchise deal).  But at 28 years old he's not getting a long term deal after that.  He'd be lucky to sign a $3 year deal for $30MM with maybe $10MM guaranteed and that's only if he stays healthy the next 2 years and that would be his last contract.  So while $40MM is nothing to sneeze at for a career, it's certain nothing like younger backs of his caliber can leverage.  I'd say the best comp to Gordon's ability was the Devonta Freeman contract.  5 years - $41MM / 22MM guaranteed.  He'll never see a deal like that under the scenario above.  That's why you'll see more of the RB's holding out because if they don't sign a new contract at age 26-27 they're too old to get a long term guaranteed deal so I can't fault him for taking this approach.

Year Team Salary Signing Bonus Roster Bonus Workout Bonus Restructure Bonus Option Bonus Incentive Total Cash
2015 Player Cash Earnings $421,235 $6,019,835 - - - - $28,652 $6,469,722
2016 Player Cash Earnings $919,990 - - - - - - $919,990
2017 Player Cash Earnings $1,404,980 - - - - - - $1,404,980
2018 Player Cash Earnings $1,889,968 - - - - - - $1,889,968

On the flip side, the Chargers can get a productive back in the 2nd or even 3rd round next year.  They already have two backs who have shown to be capable runners in the NFL.  Why would they pay market value for an RB.   It wouldn't really make sense and I think 2 years at $20MM would almost be too much for him.  I think Zeke and Gurley are rare examples of RB's that make their team go.  Most of the rest are typically replaceable to some degree.  Even Pittsburgh didn't miss Bell as much as people thought because their O line is elite.  I don't fault the Chargers here either for realizing that paying Gordon market value isn't a good long term strategy for them. 

All of which to me means neither side is coming off their stance and either Gordon will be back in week 8 to fulfill his base contract and become an unrestricted FA or the Charges will trade him.  In reality I think they would settle for a 3rd round pick as this would be the value of the compensatory pick they'd get if they let him walk after the season.

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1 hour ago, shutdown said:

This is probably the rare instance of both parties doing the right thing for themselves. 

Gordon and other RB's are being forced into this by the NFLPA rookie wage scale and contract duration.  If you're wondering, this is what has earned to date.  $11MM over 4 years.  He's pretty clearly outplayed that as Mike Davis just signed a 2 year $6MM deal with $3MM guaranteed, so Gordon's average salary is about the equivalent of a good backup RB.  In addition the team exercised his 5th year option at $5MM, also below market value for his performance.  Only in the 6th year would he get market value under the franchise tag and that's just a 1-year deal in which the team would likely run him into the ground.  This would make Gordon 27-28 years old.  He would have made roughly $30MM over 6 seasons (16MM on the base contract and about $13MM on the franchise deal).  But at 28 years old he's not getting a long term deal after that.  He'd be lucky to sign a $3 year deal for $30MM with maybe $10MM guaranteed and that's only if he stays healthy the next 2 years and that would be his last contract.  So while $40MM is nothing to sneeze at for a career, it's certain nothing like younger backs of his caliber can leverage.  I'd say the best comp to Gordon's ability was the Devonta Freeman contract.  5 years - $41MM / 22MM guaranteed.  He'll never see a deal like that under the scenario above.  That's why you'll see more of the RB's holding out because if they don't sign a new contract at age 26-27 they're too old to get a long term guaranteed deal so I can't fault him for taking this approach.

Year Team Salary Signing Bonus Roster Bonus Workout Bonus Restructure Bonus Option Bonus Incentive Total Cash
2015 Player Cash Earnings $421,235 $6,019,835 - - - - $28,652 $6,469,722
2016 Player Cash Earnings $919,990 - - - - - - $919,990
2017 Player Cash Earnings $1,404,980 - - - - - - $1,404,980
2018 Player Cash Earnings $1,889,968 - - - - - - $1,889,968

On the flip side, the Chargers can get a productive back in the 2nd or even 3rd round next year.  They already have two backs who have shown to be capable runners in the NFL.  Why would they pay market value for an RB.   It wouldn't really make sense and I think 2 years at $20MM would almost be too much for him.  I think Zeke and Gurley are rare examples of RB's that make their team go.  Most of the rest are typically replaceable to some degree.  Even Pittsburgh didn't miss Bell as much as people thought because their O line is elite.  I don't fault the Chargers here either for realizing that paying Gordon market value isn't a good long term strategy for them. 

All of which to me means neither side is coming off their stance and either Gordon will be back in week 8 to fulfill his base contract and become an unrestricted FA or the Charges will trade him.  In reality I think they would settle for a 3rd round pick as this would be the value of the compensatory pick they'd get if they let him walk after the season.

Yeah, they need to rethink the whole 5 year rookie contract thing, when the average career of an NFL RB is only 3.7 years in the first place.

HOWEVER, the Chargers did make him a reasonable offer of $10M a year and he turned up his nose, so at that point, I lose sympathy.

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10 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Yeah, they need to rethink the whole 5 year rookie contract thing, when the average career of an NFL RB is only 3.7 years in the first place.

HOWEVER, the Chargers did make him a reasonable offer of $10M a year and he turned up his nose, so at that point, I lose sympathy.

Agree on both points. As I said before, the "warrior" running back appears to be mostly a thing of the past in the NFL.  Not sure why but that’s where we are.  Guys get hot for 2-3 years and then just fizzle, get hurt, lose interest, whatever.  It’s also a pass happy league which just adds to the devaluation of running backs.  

What I think would work better, and I was hearing this about this same issue on talk radio regarding baseball contracts too is that teams should start paying MORE money per year or upfront but significantly reduce the duration of these contracts so they don’t get stuck.  How much dead cap space is there throughout the league? I bet a ton.  Not sure if the players would accept it but they might since big bucks right upfront will trump the security of more time.  These players wanna do the MTV cribs thing, ya know? So, give them huge salaries but make the deals for 2-3 years max at a time.  Then reevaluate the situation. 

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12 hours ago, AxeElf said:

HOWEVER, the Chargers did make him a reasonable offer of $10M a year and he turned up his nose, so at that point, I lose sympathy

14 hours ago, shutdown said:

 

Depends on your perspective of reasonable.  I think the offer was 2 years $20MM, That's reasonable for the next 2 years for sure.  However, add that to the 11MM hes made through 4 years and he'll have played 6 years, most of those at an above average RB level or better, for just over 5MM per year.  To equate that to other RB's, that average salary is in the range of the contracts below. 

Duke Johnson Texans 26 $15,610,000 $5,203,333      
Giovani Bernard Bengals 28 $15,500,000 $5,166,667      
Mark Ingram Ravens 30 $15,000,000 $5,000,000      
Dion Lewis Titans 29 $19,800,000 $4,950,000      

I think that in his mind he expects the chargers to pay him for the past 2-3 years where he clearly has out performed his contract value.  A contract he could not negotiate by the way.  So I can't really blame him for that logic. 

If he takes the $20MM, when the contract expires, he'll be 28 years old and looking at maybe getting a 3 year deal at best with only real value in 2 of those years after that contract.  This is his only shot to get a long term deal with a large signing bonus.  I'm not saying I'd do it if I were the Chargers for some of the reasons I mentioned above, but I don't blame Gordon trying to capitalize on his value at the time he's most valuable.

Bottom line is what was said above.  The 5 year rookie deals do not work for the upper echelon RB's because once they reach the end of the deal they no longer have the leverage to sign a long term deal. So until it's re-worked I'd plan on seeing more of these holdouts for the top backs under rookie deals.

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19 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

Odd..has hes produced top 10 numbers.

 

 And are you really siding with owners that a player not fulfilling his contract? Really?

absolutely.  if you have a contract, you honor it.  

I have no love for players who are under contract and sit out.  personally when that happens I hope the team lets them sit out the whole year.

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2 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

absolutely.  if you have a contract, you honor it.  

I have no love for players who are under contract and sit out.  personally when that happens I hope the team lets them sit out the whole year.

Ok...that's fine...just remember to call out every owner that cuts a guy on your favorite team. 

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19 hours ago, cyclone24 said:

Odd..has hes produced top 10 numbers.

 

 And are you really siding with owners that a player not fulfilling his contract? Really?

top 10 numbers for Jerick McKinnon?   guy is a bum.

 

570 yards rushing for Minnesota in 2017 and averaging 3.8 yards per carry?

I'd argue this is one of the worst signings of the decade.

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35 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

absolutely.  if you have a contract, you honor it.  

I have no love for players who are under contract and sit out.  personally when that happens I hope the team lets them sit out the whole year.

Agreed. 

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20 hours ago, AxeElf said:

It's "douchey."

And I wasn't talking about a typo, I was talking about a sentence you wrote that didn't make any sense, namely "And are you really siding with owners that a player not fulfilling his contract?"

Why don't you guys concentrate on talking about football instead of grammar and who has a bigger . C'mon guys???

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So question here, does anyone know how much the Chargers offer to him was guaranteed?  It's pretty much out there that they were offering $10mil average per year, and I agree that is where he belongs- above Freeman but below Gurley, Zeke, and Bell.  But for this position, the guaranteed amount is more critical.   Bell got $25 million guaranteed and Zeke got $50! If the Chargers guaranteed more than $20 million in addition to his 2019 current contract, then I agree, he was foolish to continue to hold out.  Anyone know?

Also, I know it's a negotiating tactic, but for the Chargers to lowball the contract offer, but then demand two #1 rounds for a trade- for that team to then have to pay him, is nuts.   I heard Philly responded by offering a 4th round, and for the Chargers to pay part of Gordon's contract....  this reminds me of when someone offers me a ridiculous trade offer in Fantasy I respond back with something equally crazy.

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On 9/1/2019 at 3:31 PM, JagFan said:

It’s refreshing to see the “boss” letting the “employee” know who’s in charge.  It’s about time.  I never understood how an injury prone RB thought they had a case for a new contract.

Now, that said, I could see the Browns trade for him to go along with their team of overrated head cases.  I’m going to enjoy watching the Browns do what they do best....and that’s be the Browns.  Not a player on that team worth having at their current ADPs, and it’s all going to come apart thanks to the new, in over his head, head coach.

ralphster, what do you think was the more embarrassing loss today...Jags or Those Same Ole Brownies?

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Watson got blown up 6 times. Duke Johnson looks poor in passpro despite being a 3rd down back. I am guessing a 3rd and 5th round and Johnson or hyde. 

 

Texans released CB Aaron Colvin.

This the latest big move from a team without a general manager. The Texans signed Colvin to a four-year, $34 million contract with $18 million guaranteed just last offseason and still owe Colvin $7.5 million guaranteed with $10.5 million in dead money. Ouch. This won't help the Texans secondary issues, and there aren't free agents to bandaid the situation. Colvin had a down 2018 season and just allowed eight receptions, 117 yards, and one touchdown on Monday Night Football, but he should re-surface shortly. Perhaps a new coaching staff can get him back to his 2016 and 2017 form.

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