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Ray_T

2 QB (or superflex) league thread

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because so few leagues start 2 QB, I'm starting a thread here.

as I have been in a 2 QB league for a long time I'd be willing to answer questions on this to the best of my ability.

it is worth noting that in this format QB's are more valuable (especially in 12 team leagues because not everyone gets a legitimate backup)

so starters are worth more, backups are worth more, and your auction values are skewed as compared to what a normal 1 QB league would be.

in my league, you are allowed to keep 3, and it is very rare that any team will keep no QB at all.  Most teams will keep 1 or 2 QB out of their 3 keepers.

 

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What would you expect to pay for QBs in an 18-team Superflex auction league with a $200 budget and 26-player rosters, where passing is 1 pt per 20 yards and passing TDs are 6 pts?

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20 hours ago, AxeElf said:

What would you expect to pay for QBs in an 18-team Superflex auction league with a $200 budget and 26-player rosters, where passing is 1 pt per 20 yards and passing TDs are 6 pts?

It depends.

How good is the QB you are bidding on and what is the nature of your superflex rules?   

what is the max # of QB's you can start?

My league is a 12 team league where we start 2 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR,  1 wr/TE flex and one TE, one K and one DEF.   we also have 5 bench spots.  so that is a total of 15 bench spots.

we are allowed to keep 3 every year.  we do not give up anything for those keepers.

our budget (on average) is $100 with the 6th and 7th place team from the previous year starting with $100.    then if you placed higher than 6th they take away $1 for each rank higher.  and if you finish lower than 7th, you get an extra $1 for each rank lower.   so your last place team starts with $105 and your first place team with $95.

that being said, the total # of QB's needed in my league is 36 (assuming each team needs 2 starters and one backup)   As there are only 32 NFL teams in the league there are not enough starters out there for everyone to have a backup who starts.   

Your situation (18 teams) means that there are not enough starting QB for each team to have 2 QB starters so even if you are allowed to have 2 QB's starting, I"m guessing only two thirds of all teams are legitimately able to start 2 QB's.

the ranking system for superflex is completely different from anything else because you dont necessarily rank your players the same. 

Regular drafts you rank your players based on position and based on projected point dropoff to see if you are better off drafting a QB or RB at any point in time.

in superflex, with rosters as large as yours, you likely only rank players based on total projected points for the year and order them.

Because QB's put up so many more points than other players(top 15 scorers in regular leagues with 4 point TD's were all QB, with 6 point TD you could be looking at top 20)

As such, I suspect every QB in the league who is playing is rostered and all the top backups are also rostered. (thus the need for large roster size)

Because my league keeps 3, I usually assume that 3 keepers are worth about $100 (equal to your budget for the rest of your team) and your remaining players are purchased at auction.  This usually works fairly well for me although the reality is those top 3 may be worth a bit more than 50% of your budget. 

QB auction prices for top QB's not kept in my league usually range from about $30 to $40 with the occasional QB going for over $40.   Last years top QB (Stafford) went for $42 this years went for $33 (Cousins).   the price usually ranges from year to year based on a number of factors which include # of QBs kept, # available, and # of rookies people want to pay for)

I think its fair to say in my league $35 is the average dollar amount for a mid Level starting QB such as Stafford, Cousins, or Rivers.  QB's ranked higher rarely go to auction in my league because they are all kept.   

Your league has more teams.  I dont know the rules on the # of QBs you may start, but there are two factors I'd adjust for.

1) your league has more roster spots, so this likely drives the average price down (mostly for backups who I expect go for cheap)

2) your league has more teams.  and if you are allowed to start 2 QB's, that will push your average price for QB's up.   If you are allowed to start up to 3, this may skew things further although the number of teams in your league likely means there are not likely many who can start more than 2 unless you draft a backup who somehow becomes the starter.

I think the net result would be a higher price for QBs in the mid tier range simply because the top 14 fantasy point producers in the NFL based on standard rules were QB's

I would guess a top 3 to top 5 QB in your league to go for around $40-$45 (Mahomes could go for over $50)   but the added roster spots in your league may put some minimal downward pressure on auction values.    After that the price likely drops into the $30 range for most of your second tier starters (similar to my league)

on another note:

most auction leagues your top 3 starters are worth about 45% to 60% of your budget.  going much higher usually means subpar players elsewhere or no good backups (or both)   So if you are rostering 2 QB, your top 1 (top 5) goes for around $40-45  your second QB likely in the $28-$35 range.   after that it likely varies greatly but I doubt many QB's (other than NFL backups)go for much less than $20.

sorry about the wishy washy answer, but I also dont have all the info.  hope this helps.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

It depends.

How good is the QB you are bidding on and what is the nature of your superflex rules?   

what is the max # of QB's you can start?

My league is a 12 team league where we start 2 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR,  1 wr/TE flex and one TE, one K and one DEF.   we also have 5 bench spots.  so that is a total of 15 bench spots.

we are allowed to keep 3 every year.  we do not give up anything for those keepers.

our budget (on average) is $100 with the 6th and 7th place team from the previous year starting with $100.    then if you placed higher than 6th they take away $1 for each rank higher.  and if you finish lower than 7th, you get an extra $1 for each rank lower.   so your last place team starts with $105 and your first place team with $95.

that being said, the total # of QB's needed in my league is 36 (assuming each team needs 2 starters and one backup)   As there are only 32 NFL teams in the league there are not enough starters out there for everyone to have a backup who starts.   

Your situation (18 teams) means that there are not enough starting QB for each team to have 2 QB starters so even if you are allowed to have 2 QB's starting, I"m guessing only two thirds of all teams are legitimately able to start 2 QB's.

the ranking system for superflex is completely different from anything else because you dont necessarily rank your players the same. 

Regular drafts you rank your players based on position and based on projected point dropoff to see if you are better off drafting a QB or RB at any point in time.

in superflex, with rosters as large as yours, you likely only rank players based on total projected points for the year and order them.

Because QB's put up so many more points than other players(top 15 scorers in regular leagues with 4 point TD's were all QB, with 6 point TD you could be looking at top 20)

As such, I suspect every QB in the league who is playing is rostered and all the top backups are also rostered. (thus the need for large roster size)

Because my league keeps 3, I usually assume that 3 keepers are worth about $100 (equal to your budget for the rest of your team) and your remaining players are purchased at auction.  This usually works fairly well for me although the reality is those top 3 may be worth a bit more than 50% of your budget. 

QB auction prices for top QB's not kept in my league usually range from about $30 to $40 with the occasional QB going for over $40.   Last years top QB (Stafford) went for $42 this years went for $33 (Cousins).   the price usually ranges from year to year based on a number of factors which include # of QBs kept, # available, and # of rookies people want to pay for)

I think its fair to say in my league $35 is the average dollar amount for a mid Level starting QB such as Stafford, Cousins, or Rivers.  QB's ranked higher rarely go to auction in my league because they are all kept.   

Your league has more teams.  I dont know the rules on the # of QBs you may start, but there are two factors I'd adjust for.

1) your league has more roster spots, so this likely drives the average price down (mostly for backups who I expect go for cheap)

2) your league has more teams.  and if you are allowed to start 2 QB's, that will push your average price for QB's up.   If you are allowed to start up to 3, this may skew things further although the number of teams in your league likely means there are not likely many who can start more than 2 unless you draft a backup who somehow becomes the starter.

I think the net result would be a higher price for QBs in the mid tier range simply because the top 14 fantasy point producers in the NFL based on standard rules were QB's

I would guess a top 3 to top 5 QB in your league to go for around $40-$45 (Mahomes could go for over $50)   but the added roster spots in your league may put some minimal downward pressure on auction values.    After that the price likely drops into the $30 range for most of your second tier starters (similar to my league)

on another note:

most auction leagues your top 3 starters are worth about 45% to 60% of your budget.  going much higher usually means subpar players elsewhere or no good backups (or both)   So if you are rostering 2 QB, your top 1 (top 5) goes for around $40-45  your second QB likely in the $28-$35 range.   after that it likely varies greatly but I doubt many QB's (other than NFL backups)go for much less than $20.

sorry about the wishy washy answer, but I also dont have all the info.  hope this helps.

LOL

I just expected a few numbers, not a Sports Illustrated article.

I'm actually a long-time veteran of auction leagues, and I like to do weird, deep leagues like this just to challenge myself and keep things interesting--but I wanted to see what you would say when faced with these kinds of extreme leagues.  I didn't really need all the basic info, but props for writing all that anyway.

To answer your question about starting lineups, we start 1 QB, 4 WRs, 3 RBs, 1 TE, 2 Flex, 1 Superflex, 1 K and 1 D, with 12 bench spots (and 1 IR)--so we MUST start 1 QB, and obviously, with the generous QB scoring, it's a huge advantage to start another in the Superflex slot--but there just aren't enough QBs for all 18 teams to start two.  You were actually pretty spot on with your estimate of the QB prices.

The best deals on QBs were actually with the first three that were nominated, before people started to realize just how much they were going to have to pay for quality QBs in this league.  Here are all the QBs drafted and their prices paid, in order of nomination:

DeShaun Watson $30

Kirk Cousins $19

Jared Goff $29

Patrick Mahomes $56

Kyler Murray $20

Tom Brady $30

Aaron Rodgers $38

Carson Wentz $34

Drew Brees $32

Andy Dalton $19

Matthew Stafford $22

Eli Manning $13

Daniel Jones $11

Baker Mayfield $39

Russell Wilson $34

Jameis Winston $30

Matt Ryan $38

Cam Newton $35

Lamar Jackson $27

Mitchell Trubisky $35

Jacoby Brissett $22

Dak Prescott $33

Ryan Fitzpatrick $12

Ben Roethlisberger $36

Derek Carr $28

Philip Rivers $36

Jimmy Garoppolo $35

Josh Allen $27

Joe Flacco $22

Sam Darnold $34

Marcus Mariota $21

Nick Foles $23

Dwayne Haskins, Jr. $14

Case Keenum $25

Josh Rosen $12

Ryan Tannehill $6

Josh McCown $4

Ryan Finley $4

Taysom Hill $2

Drew Lock $2

Will Grier $2

Nick Mullins $2

Pretty much every other backup QB out there was drafted for $1, but I won't list all those.

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I think the hardest thing about this sort of league is taking regular projections (which we see a lot of) and trying to see how they would project to a league like this.

I actually thought there would be more $35-$40 QB's than what I saw here, but usually when this happens, you have a larger pool of QB's that go in the $28-$35 range, and that's exactly what it looks like in your league.

I"m a bit surprised Deshaun Watson went for only $30 and Cousins for $19  I suspect at least one of them were among the early bargains you spoke of.

anyhow, cool league.

That is the bonus of playing in a league like this is it forces you to have a deeper knowledge of what you are bidding on.

Regular 1 QB leagues, you need to know the top 12-16 QB's and the rest dont matter.

2 QB leagues or superflex, you need to know the value of all of them and if you pounce on a couple of deals that can make your draft.

anyhow, nice post.  Cheers.

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12 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

I"m a bit surprised Deshaun Watson went for only $30 and Cousins for $19  I suspect at least one of them were among the early bargains you spoke of.

Yes; as I said, I listed them in the order of nomination.

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16 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Yes; as I said, I listed them in the order of nomination.

makes sense.

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