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Phil Simms 11

Antonio Brown harassment case

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HR departments include language in disciplinary actions that warn employees to not question co-workers or comment about whatever incident occurred.  That anything like that could be considered retaliation or harassment.  His lawyer would definitely have told him to not do that if he'd had a chance, you'd hope anyway.  

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if it turns out to be real - you gotta think they suspend him/exempt him or whatever

right?

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I just read them.  I'm not sure what to think.  How can this person even prove this occurred?  I'm not doubting her, but you have to have some evidence if you are going to press charges.  If she doesn't have any at all, he can retaliate and sue for defamation, simply to run her up some major legal fees.  He's obviously not thinking clearly to have sent those to begin with, and I still believe they will find out he has CTE someday, but the legal system needs proof.  Her word against his is not going to work if she sues him.  As much as I dislike Brown, I think it would be wrong to suspend him over these vs. the other incident. 

The big question is whether someone would pick him up next season if he is put on the exempt list, but later removed.  I think the Patriots would still own his rights, unless they release him, but would they take him back?

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i think all this person did was provide an interview to a media outlet concerning her past interactions with AB.  she has not charged him with anything.  yes, i would think, if he were so inclined, he could press charges for slander or similar.  but he has not done that

the text messages, if real, are a terrible idea by AB.  certainly falls within any number of transgressions.  certainly conduct unbecoming.  i cannot imagine the NFL, IF THEY BELIEVE the texts are real and from AB, continue to allow him to represent their organiztion

 

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40 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

I just read them.  I'm not sure what to think.  How can this person even prove this occurred?  I'm not doubting her, but you have to have some evidence if you are going to press charges.  If she doesn't have any at all, he can retaliate and sue for defamation, simply to run her up some major legal fees.  He's obviously not thinking clearly to have sent those to begin with, and I still believe they will find out he has CTE someday, but the legal system needs proof.  Her word against his is not going to work if she sues him.  As much as I dislike Brown, I think it would be wrong to suspend him over these vs. the other incident. 

The big question is whether someone would pick him up next season if he is put on the exempt list, but later removed.  I think the Patriots would still own his rights, unless they release him, but would they take him back?

She's not pressing charges. She just forwarded the text to the league because she wanted it to stop.

I don't know it the league can forensically prove Brown sent the texts, but c'mon! The woman received them from the same number she had previously used to communicate with Brown. The texts refer to Brown in the first person ("I let [her] paint my room"). Leaving aside legal standards of proof and looking at the situation logically, if Brown didn't send those texts, who did?

As for what was going on in that text thread, I initially wondered if it was one of those things where he was talking about her and inadvertently ended up including her in the group text. Most of the messages sound more like he's strategizing with his team. Then again, the first text is addressed to her ("Really sad you would make up bull s##t story ...") so it's reasonable to assume he wanted her to see the discussion (including pictures of her kids!) and feel threatened. And ultimately, it doesn't really exonerate him to say, "I wasn't threatening her, I was plotting in secret with my lackeys to discredit her!"

Compared to the other stuff he's accused of, this isn't as bad. But given the other stuff he was already accused of, it really does make you wonder what's wrong with him.

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11 minutes ago, zftcg said:

 

She's not pressing charges. She just forwarded the text to the league because she wanted it to stop.

I don't know it the league can forensically prove Brown sent the texts, but c'mon! The woman received them from the same number she had previously used to communicate with Brown. The texts refer to Brown in the first person ("I let [her] paint my room"). Leaving aside legal standards of proof and looking at the situation logically, if Brown didn't send those texts, who did?

As for what was going on in that text thread, I initially wondered if it was one of those things where he was talking about her and inadvertently ended up including her in the group text. Most of the messages sound more like he's strategizing with his team. Then again, the first text is addressed to her ("Really sad you would make up bull s##t story ...") so it's reasonable to assume he wanted her to see the discussion (including pictures of her kids!) and feel threatened. And ultimately, it doesn't really exonerate him to say, "I wasn't threatening her, I was plotting in secret with my lackeys to discredit her!"

Compared to the other stuff he's accused of, this isn't as bad. But given the other stuff he was already accused of, it really does make you wonder what's wrong with him.

You are probably correct that he accidentally included her.  If he did it on purpose, it shows he's just flat out crazy.  Accidents can happen.  Years ago, around 2004, I was working in an office.  We had instant messaging to communicate with one another.  A girl had come to work really hung over and just looked like she had just filmed Debbie Does Dallas.  I sent an Instant Message to a friend about how horrible she looked.  Except I didn't sent it to my friend.  I'm not sure if it was because I was talking about her or what, but I sent HER the instant message.  She took it in stride and let me lie and say I sent it to her as a joke, but she knew the truth.  So yeah, your mind can get fixated on something and cause you to make really dumb decisions. 

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10 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

You are probably correct that he accidentally included her.  If he did it on purpose, it shows he's just flat out crazy.  Accidents can happen.  Years ago, around 2004, I was working in an office.  We had instant messaging to communicate with one another.  A girl had come to work really hung over and just looked like she had just filmed Debbie Does Dallas.  I sent an Instant Message to a friend about how horrible she looked.  Except I didn't sent it to my friend.  I'm not sure if it was because I was talking about her or what, but I sent HER the instant message.  She took it in stride and let me lie and say I sent it to her as a joke, but she knew the truth.  So yeah, your mind can get fixated on something and cause you to make really dumb decisions. 

Yeah, we've all had incidents like that (in my case, I was once the recipient of an IM where my employee was complaining about me). But again, if he didn't intend to include her, why did he address her directly in the first message? Either way, the whole thing sounds super creepy, and I can only imagine how that woman felt when he sent around the picture of her kids. If someone who was angry with me sent around a pic of my boys -- even if that photo was publicly available -- I would take it as a direct threat and absolutely lose my #@$%. Whatever problems we had before this, when you bring my kids into it that's a declaration of war.

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15 hours ago, oldtimer said:

You are probably correct that he accidentally included her.  If he did it on purpose, it shows he's just flat out crazy.  Accidents can happen.  Years ago, around 2004, I was working in an office.  We had instant messaging to communicate with one another.  A girl had come to work really hung over and just looked like she had just filmed Debbie Does Dallas.  I sent an Instant Message to a friend about how horrible she looked.  Except I didn't sent it to my friend.  I'm not sure if it was because I was talking about her or what, but I sent HER the instant message.  She took it in stride and let me lie and say I sent it to her as a joke, but she knew the truth.  So yeah, your mind can get fixated on something and cause you to make really dumb decisions. 

Years ago a coworker of mine did this as well. He meant to IM me about a girl, calling her a bltch. He sent it to her. She went to the project team lead and complained and the team lead said to her, "You are a bltch".  :lol:

 

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1 minute ago, Phil Simms 11 said:

Looking at the actual text messages....doesn't seem that serious?

i don't know.  calling her broke and sad and then including pictures of her children as EVIDENCE that she is broke is pretty darned bad, jmho

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6 minutes ago, zftcg said:

Yeah, we've all had incidents like that (in my case, I was once the recipient of an IM where my employee was complaining about me). But again, if he didn't intend to include her, why did he address her directly in the first message? Either way, the whole thing sounds super creepy, and I can only imagine how that woman felt when he sent around the picture of her kids. If someone who was angry with me sent around a pic of my boys -- even if that photo was publicly available -- I would take it as a direct threat and absolutely lose my #@$%. Whatever problems we had before this, when you bring my kids into it that's a declaration of war.

Bringing kids into it is a BAD thing, and definitely a declaration of war.  Sickening.  That's the part that may get his butt in a sling with the NFL. 

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3 minutes ago, Phil Simms 11 said:

Looking at the actual text messages....doesn't seem that serious?

I mean, it could have been worse -- he could have threatened her directly. But plotting with your henchmen to damage someone's reputation, bringing her kids into it, including her on the text chain -- all while knowing you're already on thin ice with the league -- shows at the least an incredible lack of judgment.

It's worth reiterating that he is not being accused of a crime here, or even a civil violation, and this is entirely unrelated to the civil suit Britney Taylor filed against him. The only "judge" in this matter is the NFL, which has to decide what it thinks of this type of behavior and how it reflects on "The Shield" (I hate that term, but you know what I mean), particularly in light of the other things he's already accused of. I'm not saying, at least not yet, that the Pats should definitely cut him or the league should put him on the exempt list. But I don't think there is any way to argue his conduct here is defensible.

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My God I love the internet. It really exposes the mentally challenged.

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9 minutes ago, sderk said:

My God I love the internet. It really exposes the mentally challenged.

Can't remember where I heard this line: The best thing about the First Amendment is that it makes it easier to spot the idiot.

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Obviously he is an idiot, however, it seems the person in question had made some things up to get attention or some other kind of benefit. Instead of lashing out he needs to talk to his lawyer in the first place and have them pursue a defamation charge. 

 

And yes, I am jumping to conclusions based on reading that. I believe he is an "idiot that has been wronged" as opposed to "sexual predator angry he was exposed." 

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10 minutes ago, Phil Simms 11 said:

Obviously he is an idiot, however, it seems the person in question had made some things up to get attention or some other kind of benefit.

She was quoted anonymously in a story. She has not sued him for his behavior, nor, if memory serves, did she even pursue him for the money he owed her for the painting. When he sent those texts, her response was to hand them over the league office in an effort to get him to stop (while still remaining anonymous)

If that's her strategy for getting attention/benefits, she's doing it all wrong. On the other hand, if she's a woman who had an a##hole celebrity client and just wants to be done with him, her behavior is perfectly consistent with that scenario.

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38 minutes ago, zftcg said:

She was quoted anonymously in a story. She has not sued him for his behavior, nor, if memory serves, did she even pursue him for the money he owed her for the painting. When he sent those texts, her response was to hand them over the league office in an effort to get him to stop (while still remaining anonymous)

If that's her strategy for getting attention/benefits, she's doing it all wrong. On the other hand, if she's a woman who had an a##hole celebrity client and just wants to be done with him, her behavior is perfectly consistent with that scenario.

exactly.  this lady is not seeking $$$$.  not yet, anyway. gotta admit - if i was she it would be really really tempting.

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2 hours ago, oldtimer said:

You are probably correct that he accidentally included her.  If he did it on purpose, it shows he's just flat out crazy.  Accidents can happen.  Years ago, around 2004, I was working in an office.  We had instant messaging to communicate with one another.  A girl had come to work really hung over and just looked like she had just filmed Debbie Does Dallas.  I sent an Instant Message to a friend about how horrible she looked.  Except I didn't sent it to my friend.  I'm not sure if it was because I was talking about her or what, but I sent HER the instant message.  She took it in stride and let me lie and say I sent it to her as a joke, but she knew the truth.  So yeah, your mind can get fixated on something and cause you to make really dumb decisions. 

Ouch

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How can anyone be bumped up before any ruling has been issued? I'm an Edelman owner, hoping he gets on the commish list, but the league seems to drag its feet Re: Patriots

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5 minutes ago, jrokh said:

How can anyone be bumped up before any ruling has been issued? I'm an Edelman owner, hoping he gets on the commish list, but the league seems to drag its feet Re: Patriots

agreed.  i think dorsett/edelman/etc get bumped up either very slightly (based on more evidence that Brown cannot control himself and will eventually flame out even if not this week), or even more (if he gets exempted or suspended this week)

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I would imagine the Patriots are hoping to keep Brown from the exempt list until N'Keal Henry is ready.  At least then they would have another capable WR.  Obviously not in Brown's class, but still someone able to play decent. 

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