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Frozenbeernuts

What would it take to trade away Pats D

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6 ppg above the second best defense, 9 ppg above the third best defense. Only McCaffery is more valuable on a ppg basis at his position. They play the Bengals and Bills weeks 15 and 16.

Would you need a great offer? A decent one because they are a defense? No way you trade them? 

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1 minute ago, TheUsualSuspect said:

CMAC + a gaggle of Nebraska’s finest in the jacuzzi or A reach around behind the Christmas tree.

I think that may be undrselling a bit, but I like where this conversation started 

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I think if you were going to trade them, do so before their end of season stretch of games.  They haven't exactly played the top offenses in the league to date and I do not believe, at all, they put up these numbers against Dallas, Houston, etc. etc.  Bill's record against first and second year QB's is insanely good.  How will they be though against teams that can actually move the ball AND play defense?  I'm not saying they are overrated, just that if you are going to sell, now would be the time, or in the next few weeks. 

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It's not exactly the same, but I remember people saying last year that Mahomes was a sell-high candidate. In theory, both make sense. If you have a clear No. 1 at a position that's more easily replaceable, and you can leverage it to improve in a less replaceable position like RB/WR, you should do it. And I could see a scenario where you have Pats D and a big hole at RB2 or WR2 and found someone willing to trade with you.

But in practice, it's hard to get full value. I think people don't want to trade something good for a D for the exact reason you're looking to sell high: Because they don't value D all that much.

I also think there's a psychological element to owning a set-it-and-forget-it player at a onesie position. It's really nice to not have to worry about your DST every week. Takes a huge load off your mind.

There was an added psychological element with Mahomes last year that's also true -- though to a much lesser extent -- with the Pats: It was really focking fun to have the QB1 on my roster, especially given that I took him in the ninth round. 

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As tough as it is to do psychologically, I agree that they are a prime sell-high candidate. 

They are a very good defense, but unlike Mahomie last year who was matchup-proof, they are definitely over performing right now. NYG's, who were on the road and missing  90% of their playmakers, were moving the ball well on them. Int's, fumbles, and especially TD's are extremely streaky.

Very likely that their value will not be higher than right now. I would take advantage of that if I had obvious holes in my squad. 

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I would definitely sell if I could get a legitimate starter at a position of need. The Pats have faced the Steelers, Fins, Jets (no darnold), Bills, Skins, and Giants with their Practice Squad. They get the Jets again and then start playing teams with actual NFL offenses. The problem as I see it is I checked two different trade value charts and both don't even list defenses. Hard to gauge the value, but yeah if you can sell high, I most certainly would.

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I don't think anyone is going to give up enough to make it worth my while to trade the Patriots. People don't typically value defenses, so they're trying to buy low, but the points count the same as anything else. Right now the Patriots are twice as valuable as any other defense. Even adjusting for the fact they probably aren't going to keep scoring touchdowns at this rate, the sacks and turnovers will still be there.

I wouldn't mind selling, but I just don't see someone giving me an RB 2 or WR 2 in exchange. I may as well just start the Patriots each weeks and hope for the best. Maybe mixing in the Browns or Eages when the Patriots have a particularly bad matchup.

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2 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Pats will be solid for the stretch of games that have good offenses, but the have an awesome playoff sched too

How so?!  They get the Chiefs in Week 14.  That's the first week of the playoffs.  They have the Bengals in Week 15, which is a great matchup for them.  In Week 16 they get the Bills, who may have something to play for.  So they have one great matchup, one good matchup and one absolutely horrible matchup.  The matchup with the Bills ended with 4 interceptions.  No way do they let Allen throw 4 picks again, but I'll still give it a 'good' rating. 

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10 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

How so?!  They get the Chiefs in Week 14.  That's the first week of the playoffs.  They have the Bengals in Week 15, which is a great matchup for them.  In Week 16 they get the Bills, who may have something to play for.  So they have one great matchup, one good matchup and one absolutely horrible matchup.  The matchup with the Bills ended with 4 interceptions.  No way do they let Allen throw 4 picks again, but I'll still give it a 'good' rating. 

For my one league 4 teams make the playoffs. Yes the chiefs may need to be avoided, but I will take the bills and cincy against the Pats D any day. 

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I draft two defenses on most of my teams each season and stream them. I usually try to make one of them the Patriots.

It usually works out well but this season, of course, it's been a blessing. The reason is, they almost always play a cookie cutter schedule, and they are the best coached team.

While they have a few tougher match ups later in the season, the 4 games after the bye are a tough stretch with Philly, Dallas, Houston, and KC, they should still put up good numbers on par with the other top defenses. Then for the playoffs, they have some of the best match ups possible.

Right now it would be a tough sell, very tough. There's no reason to think they won't continue to shine. I honestly don't think I would trade them unless it was for multiple tops players. The gap in the score at D is just something that you can't make up.

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See the "New York Jets Defense" thread if you are considering cashing in the Patriots, or just looking to add a defense to turn to when the Patriots play actual NFL teams.

 

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My philosophy is to try to have every position in my lineup ranked in the top 10 and as many as possible in the top 5. I have found that to be a winning strategy. Week to week consistently.  Patriots D checks both boxes. As the no. 1 rank in a single player slot in my lineup,  it makes no sense for me to trade them away unless I have a glaring substandard slot and I can get a top 10 in that weak slot and still have a top 5 in my DST slot.  NE DST is not just good because they have played weak teams. They are just good. And that is exactly what I want on my fantasy teams.

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It’s a freaking Def.  Is this much discussion really happening?  This is the wrong board for this anyway.  Move it.

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17 minutes ago, JagFan said:

It’s a freaking Def.  Is this much discussion really happening?  This is the wrong board for this anyway.  Move it.

Who popped in your cheerios? 

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27 minutes ago, JagFan said:

It’s a freaking Def.  Is this much discussion really happening?  This is the wrong board for this anyway.  Move it.

Your opinion has been noted. Sorry we forced you to click on the topic. We'll try to be more careful as we move forward.

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2 hours ago, JagFan said:

It’s a freaking Def.  Is this much discussion really happening?  This is the wrong board for this anyway.  Move it.

In my league, NE defense is the 3rd highest scoring position overall. That's over ALL players. That makes them the same value as any "elite" RB1. Or QB, WR, and TEs. Only McCaffery and Ekeler are above NE D. Sure they'll probably have some down games, but find me a player that won't. They are also twice the points scored by the next defense. That's a pretty big drop for any position.

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I wouldn’t trade for a def, unless it’s cheap  

I know the Pats def is posting great ff points, but ff def can change so quickly. 

 

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They are the fantasy MVP and a huge weekly advantage since you paid nothing for them. Anyone who trades Pats DST is crazy.

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5 hours ago, JagFan said:

It’s a freaking Def.  Is this much discussion really happening?  This is the wrong board for this anyway.  Move it.

Get off my lawn!!!

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16 hours ago, AxeElf said:

See the "New York Jets Defense" thread if you are considering cashing in the Patriots, or just looking to add a defense to turn to when the Patriots play actual NFL teams.

 

Hmm the Jets play the wildly overrated Daniel Jones on the Pats bye. Interesting

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I think I'm going to grab the Browns defense to go with the Patriots.

Week 10: Buf

Week 11: Pit

Week 12: Mia

Week 13: @ Pit

Week 14: Cin

 

That basically covers the Pats bad matchups.

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1 hour ago, Ehlana said:

I think I'm going to grab the Browns defense to go with the Patriots.

Week 10: Buf

Week 11: Pit

Week 12: Mia

Week 13: @ Pit

Week 14: Cin

 

That basically covers the Pats bad matchups.

The downside, of course, is that the Browns DST is scoring a mere 0.4 points per week more than the crappy Giants DST, despite playing their first 2 games against the #27 and #32 ranked offenses of the Titans and Jets.  And that's not a function of playing the Ravens, 49ers and Rams since then, either--the Browns were actually averaging 0.1 points per week LESS after those first two cupcake games than they are now.

The complementary DST to grab is the Jets--their 9/10/11/12/13/14 schedule is MIA, NYG, WAS, OAK, CIN and MIA again.

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1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

The downside, of course, is that the Browns DST is scoring a mere 0.4 points per week more than the crappy Giants DST, despite playing their first 2 games against the #27 and #32 ranked offenses of the Titans and Jets.  And that's not a function of playing the Ravens, 49ers and Rams since then, either--the Browns were actually averaging 0.1 points per week LESS after those first two cupcake games than they are now.

The complementary DST to grab is the Jets--their 9/10/11/12/13/14 schedule is MIA, NYG, WAS, OAK, CIN and MIA again.

Once Cleveland gets their defensive backfield back they may perk up quite a bit

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1 hour ago, Ehlana said:

I think I'm going to grab the Browns defense to go with the Patriots.

Week 10: Buf

Week 11: Pit

Week 12: Mia

Week 13: @ Pit

Week 14: Cin

 

That basically covers the Pats bad matchups.

The only team I may sit the Pats against would be the Chiefs, outside of that I think they're still likely to be as good as most other Defenses

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2 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Once Cleveland gets their defensive backfield back they may perk up quite a bit

The Jets should have Mosley back by that stretch, too.

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5 hours ago, AxeElf said:

The downside, of course, is that the Browns DST is scoring a mere 0.4 points per week more than the crappy Giants DST, despite playing their first 2 games against the #27 and #32 ranked offenses of the Titans and Jets.  And that's not a function of playing the Ravens, 49ers and Rams since then, either--the Browns were actually averaging 0.1 points per week LESS after those first two cupcake games than they are now.

The complementary DST to grab is the Jets--their 9/10/11/12/13/14 schedule is MIA, NYG, WAS, OAK, CIN and MIA again.

Talking about averages doesn't make much sense. I don't care about the Jets or Browns averages, only what they'll get me when/if I start them. The Jets only have 6 sacks, they're defensive point total is entirely due to the 3 touchdowns they've scored, and I don't think you can count on defensive touchdowns. I'd rather have Cleveland's sacks and turnovers than the randomness of a Jets TD.

Although I will admit that two games against Miami is pretty sweet.

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19 minutes ago, Ehlana said:

Talking about averages doesn't make much sense. I don't care about the Jets or Browns averages, only what they'll get me when/if I start them. The Jets only have 6 sacks, they're defensive point total is entirely due to the 3 touchdowns they've scored, and I don't think you can count on defensive touchdowns. I'd rather have Cleveland's sacks and turnovers than the randomness of a Jets TD.

Although I will admit that two games against Miami is pretty sweet.

Well, it's not ENTIRELY due to defensive TDs, although they certainly helped (and they've helped the Patriots and the 49ers too).  But the Jets are also tied for 7th in fumble recoveries and tied for 11th in interceptions--AND they've been without arguably their best player (Mosley)--who scored 1 of those defensive TDs--since the 4th quarter of Week 1.

They've also done it against some reasonable NFL offenses--Buffalo, Cleveland, New England and Philadelphia.  When they have Mosley back and play that stretch of MIA, NYG, WAS, OAK, CIN and MIA again in Weeks 9-14, they're going to be as good or better than most other defenses, and I would expect them to finish the season among the top 5 (which is where they would be right now if you prorated their bye week).

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Dude on redzone just said the Pats would be 4-2-1 if the NE offense scored zero TD's this year.  That's sick.

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We could have the best fantasy season ever for a D, best fantasy season from a rb, and Minshew being the best rookie qb ever all in one year

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