Kitchens needs to go.................

[huskyhater75 242]

  Fire him Cleveland, he took a TD away from his own team-what a bonehead.

[oldtimer 84]

If Mayfield doesn't stop staring at his primary target while said target is running his route, the team may need to have a chat with him.  I understand the line is pretty horrendous, but he locks onto one guy and just stares him down on many occasions.  Not going to win many games that way.  He's young enough to turn it around, but does he have the staff/people around him to do so?

[AxeElf 787]

If you can't stand the heat...

[Matt Mueller 146]

7 minutes ago, oldtimer said:

If Mayfield doesn't stop staring at his primary target while said target is running his route, the team may need to have a chat with him.  I understand the line is pretty horrendous, but he locks onto one guy and just stares him down on many occasions.  Not going to win many games that way.  He's young enough to turn it around, but does he have the staff/people around him to do so?

One of the blowhard analysts, maybe it was Cowherd, made a decent point.

These QBs in college getting EXCELLENT coaching.   

Oaklahoma's coaching is top notch for the system they run.

 

It's a rare circumstance where the coaching they receive at the Pro level may actually be worse.

 

So his basic theory was that Baker has devolved ever since we has been away from his college coaches.  

[oldtimer 84]

10 minutes ago, Matt Mueller said:

One of the blowhard analysts, maybe it was Cowherd, made a decent point.

These QBs in college getting EXCELLENT coaching.   

Oaklahoma's coaching is top notch for the system they run.

 

It's a rare circumstance where the coaching they receive at the Pro level may actually be worse.

 

So his basic theory was that Baker has devolved ever since we has been away from his college coaches.  

That's a very good point as he had one heck of a Coach at Oklahoma.  He's devolved since last year, no doubt. 

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Baker looks like trash.  Maybe it is a sophmore slump who knows.  But he looks like a bum.  

[jrokh 568]

The Rumors picking up steam here in Cleveland is Trent Williams in a trade. If that happens, It could be just what the doctor ordered for Mr. Mayfield and the offense in general. 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

2 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Baker looks like trash.  Maybe it is a sophmore slump who knows.  But he looks like a bum.  

This is all I hear pretty much. People don't take into consideration enough about receivers, coaches, and how the line affects the qb. 

[listen2me 23 1,541]

6 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

This is all I hear pretty much. People don't take into consideration enough about receivers, coaches, and how the line affects the qb. 

Of course they do. He has mega talent.  The oline isnt good.  The coaches were fine last year when everyone went googly eyes over him.

I wasnt high on him coming out.  Or at least not as high as most.  So maybe I am bias.

But he has been down right inaccurate even without pressure....when I have watched.  Or throws into coverage.

As a QB....well elite QB you have to overcome all of those things. 

Like I said it is year 2 and many times there is a sophmore slump after tape gets out.  

You dont think he has played like ass this year?  Really?   Your assessment is he has been fine it is everyone else's fault? 

Maybe Mariota's only problem is his coaching and oline.

[huskyhater75 242]

The line and he play calling have destroyed Browns this year. Kitchens has no business being head coach and calling plays, hand that duty to someone else.

[huskyhater75 242]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

Of course they do. He has mega talent.  The oline isnt good.  The coaches were fine last year when everyone went googly eyes over him.

I wasnt high on him coming out.  Or at least not as high as most.  So maybe I am bias.

But he has been down right inaccurate even without pressure....when I have watched.  Or throws into coverage.

As a QB....well elite QB you have to overcome all of those things. 

Like I said it is year 2 and many times there is a sophmore slump after tape gets out.  

You dont think he has played like ass this year?  Really?   Your assessment is he has been fine it is everyone else's fault? 

Maybe Mariota's only problem is his coaching and oline.

Put Mariota on NE or anybody with a competent o-line and he'd be alot better. 

[listen2me 23 1,541]

1 minute ago, huskyhater75 said:

The line and he play calling have destroyed Browns this year. Kitchens has no business being head coach and calling plays, hand that duty to someone else.

He was fine last year as everyone made Baker in the kitchen references at will.  Now all of a sudden he sucks.

Hey im not here to say Kitchens is good.  Or Baker is a bust.  All I am saying is Baker hasnt looked good.  They were predicted to do big things by many people this year.  People knew Kitchens was there and the oline was iffy.  Yet thats all people said.  Hel they were one of the SB favorites.  

Of course it is everyone elses fault. Not golden boy Bakers.  When Allen or Darnold for the freaking Bills and Jets and their lack of playmakers look badit is that they arent good.  Hell frozen is one of them.  He thinks Darold is a bum already.  Younger than Baker playing on a much less talented offense.  

 

[listen2me 23 1,541]

3 minutes ago, huskyhater75 said:

Put Mariota on NE or anybody with a competent o-line and he'd be alot better. 

Put Rosen on the Browns and he'd be a lot better.  We can play this game.

[huskyhater75 242]

1 minute ago, listen2me 23 said:

Put Rosen on the Browns and he'd be a lot better.  We can play this game.

HAHA, Rosen really tore it up with AZ last year!

[listen2me 23 1,541]

1 minute ago, huskyhater75 said:

HAHA, Rosen really tore it up with AZ last year!

Yeah AZ was just as bad as Miami is this year.  Put him on the Browns and hes a lot better.  To use your phrase.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

1 hour ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

This is all I hear pretty much. People don't take into consideration enough about receivers, coaches, and how the line affects the qb. 

Baker Mayfield ranks in the top 5 in time to throw per pass

https://www.google.com/amp/s/brownswire.usatoday.com/2019/10/12/baker-mayfield-ranks-in-the-top-5-in-time-to-throw-per-pass/amp/

[listen2me 23 1,541]

13 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

This is all I hear pretty much. People don't take into consideration enough about receivers, coaches, and how the line affects the qb. 

Frozey why run off now bring your crying faces back.

Apparently he is getting decent time back there.  He has a top 3 WR. Landry. Callaway. Chubb.  

Why is Baker looking so bad out there? I want to figure this out.  

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

Frozey why run off now bring your crying faces back.

Apparently he is getting decent time back there.  He has a top 3 WR Landry. Callaway. Chubb.  

Why is Baker looking so bad out there? I want to figure this out.  

You count Callaway as a legit receiving option. He was a huge reason why one of his should be TDs turned into a pick. If you are watching the game and you see receivers doing their best on every play then idk what you are watching. Your Stat isn't a smoking gun, it's funny you think so. You got soooo excited that you found something to support your side.

He also isn't staring down receivers. It's interesting that you use that as a reason against Mayfield when you are really just parroting something you heard

[oldtimer 84]

7 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

He also isn't staring down receivers. It's interesting that you use that as a reason against Mayfield when you are really just parroting something you heard

I have absolutely nothing against Mayfield.  In fact, I like him.  The statement you made is incredibly false though.  I watch the games and he absolutely does stare down his WR's, sometimes right from the snap of the ball.  This isn't something I noticed, it's something that is discussed every single week on NFL on Sirius Satellite.  I guess all the Scouts on there are incorrect as well?  Gil Brandt, along with current and former head coaches?  They are not wrong.  He doesn't do it on every single play, but watch him.....  He flat out stared OBJ down on several throws that were incompletions, right from the snap of the ball.  There was no checkdown and he didn't even look at another option.  To say he isn't staring down receivers is just incorrect when Scouts, Head Coaches and most of this board has seen him do it. 

[listen2me 23 1,541]

On 10/16/2019 at 11:05 AM, Frozenbeernuts said:

You count Callaway as a legit receiving option. He was a huge reason why one of his should be TDs turned into a pick. If you are watching the game and you see receivers doing their best on every play then idk what you are watching. Your Stat isn't a smoking gun, it's funny you think so. You got soooo excited that you found something to support your side.

He also isn't staring down receivers. It's interesting that you use that as a reason against Mayfield when you are really just parroting something you heard

Baker looks bad.  Do you watch the games?

Or do you want to continue to blame everyone but him? 

The Browns suck.  Hes part of the reason.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

Baker looks bad.  Do you watch the games?

Or do you want to continue to blame everyone but him? 

The Browns suck.  Hes part of the reason.

He didn't look great. The Pats D is ridiculous and Bakers receivers kind of suck. He is the only QB to throw a td on the Pats so far this season. I would say he played better than any other qb vs the Pats so far. Maybe once the Browns get some receivers who care about football his stats perk up. 

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Just now, Frozenbeernuts said:

He didn't look great. The Pats D is ridiculous and Bakers receivers kind of suck. He is the only QB to throw a td on the Pats so far this season. I would say he played better than any other qb vs the Pats so far. Maybe once the Browns get some receivers who care about football his stats perk up. 

Right on que.  

Baker is amazing its everyone else's fault.  

At least you are consistent.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Baker isnt Trubs level bad.  Im not saying his career is spoken for already.

But if you watch the games yoi will see

1. He is inaccurate far too often.

2. Pocket awareness is poor.

3. Forces some things. As seen by thr handoff to Guy that wasnt there at all yet he tried it anyway.

4. And he stares down WRs.  

Its his 2nd year.  I can cut him some slack.  But im just tired of the narrative that its Kitchens and now the WRs fault.  They may not be up to standards either. But Baker has played BAD

[jrokh 568]

5 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

He didn't look great. The Pats D is ridiculous and Bakers receivers kind of suck. He is the only QB to throw a td on the Pats so far this season. I would say he played better than any other qb vs the Pats so far. Maybe once the Browns get some receivers who care about football his stats perk up. 

2nd QB to throw a TD, first was future HOF QB rookie Danny Dimes...

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

12 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Right on que.  

Baker is amazing its everyone else's fault.  

At least you are consistent.

I just said he didn't look great. It was the first sentence. You read the first sentence and then told me I said the opposite. That is some serious idiocy. How can you be that stupid? It's literally the first sentence !! 

[Ehlana 25]

That shovel pass to the NE defensive lineman was hilarious.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

13 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

I just said he didn't look great. It was the first sentence. You read the first sentence and then told me I said the opposite. That is some serious idiocy. How can you be that stupid? It's literally the first sentence !! 

Because then you went on to shift blame to the WRs and patting Baker on thr back for throwing 1 TD.  Your first sentence mattered none when you go back and shift blame with your very next words.

You can give wishy washy responses thats fine. I understand Baker is your QB crush.  

"Poor baker has no wrs that care" "just really talented ones"

[[echo] 72]

"his wr's kinda suck..."... um.. Landry and OBJ, still, no?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

17 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Because then you went on to shift blame to the WRs and patting Baker on thr back for throwing 1 TD.  Your first sentence mattered none when you go back and shift blame with your very next words.

You can give wishy washy responses thats fine. I understand Baker is your QB crush.  

"Poor baker has no wrs that care" "just really talented ones"

So I can't point out other reasons that add to Bakers poor play? You may want to look a little deeper into why certain qbs play great or poor for a stretch. It may not all be 100% on the qb. HTH

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

1 minute ago, [echo] said:

"his wr's kinda suck..."... um.. Landry and OBJ, still, no?

Landry, meh. Nothing special. Obj has talent, but he doesn't care much about football any more. You people are really shallow. It's fine. No point debating with shallow people. Obj was once really good so we should just assume he is great and cares deeply forever. Ignore evidence. It's all good

[[echo] 72]

i agree with you that Kitchens is horrific.. but OBJ and Landry with Calloway is a good wr core, In my "shallow" opinion.

[oldtimer 84]

5 minutes ago, [echo] said:

i agree with you that Kitchens is horrific.. but OBJ and Landry with Calloway is a good wr core, In my "shallow" opinion.

I agree.  OBJ, Landry and Callaway are a nice trio.  Much better than what many teams have.  Not to mention Chubb and soon to be Hunt.  They have the pieces around Mayfield, outside of the Left Tackle.  I like the kid.  I hope he does well.  Maybe it's just a sophomore slump.  ESPN did show a funny clip of him (or maybe it was NFL Network?) yesterday morning.  They were blaming him for OBJ's lack of production, and I can see why.  He took the snap, stared directly at OBJ the entire time he was going through his route, then he chucked the ball in his general direction.  Well, when you stare down your WR, the Safety, or both, will gladly come help the Cornerback shut that guy down.  OBJ had three guys surrounding him and Mayfield still threw the ball his direction.  This isn't college.  You can't stare your guy down and win because your team plays a bunch of lesser talented opponents. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,631]

1 hour ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

He didn't look great. The Pats D is ridiculous and Bakers receivers kind of suck. He is the only QB to throw a td on the Pats so far this season. I would say he played better than any other qb vs the Pats so far. Maybe once the Browns get some receivers who care about football his stats perk up. 

He's not the only one. Who told you that? 

[listen2me 23 1,541]

39 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

So I can't point out other reasons that add to Bakers poor play? You may want to look a little deeper into why certain qbs play great or poor for a stretch. It may not all be 100% on the qb. HTH

No one is saying it is all on Baker.  Who here is saying that? No one.  Quote me saying that.  

So in other words this post reads...

"Baker is very good but isnt playing great because of everyone else".

Thats fine.  Im just making sure I know where you are coming from.  Seem to be at the same place you were a few weeks ago.  

You are so defensive about your favorite player that you are turning to making things up.