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Baker Boy

Californians Learning That Solar Panels Don’t Work in Blackouts

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5 minutes ago, peenie said:

Call me stupid but that is exactly what they taught us. I don't own solar panels but it was pushed as an alternative way to supply power to your home. In other words, the sun's energy is captured in the panels and then power your home. Not sure about grids and such, they left that out in the explanation.

Isn't #2 explaining that you don't need a grid?

You aren't stupid, it's just that 99% of Solar Panels aren't owned by the homeowner, they are owned by the company that installed them.  That company gets it's dough from selling power to the electric company.

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15 hours ago, Baker Boy said:

This was a sub prime market, people with poor credit were given a loan, with no down payment, to cover the mortgage and closing costs. They also received cash at closing. This was backed by the government. They could never afford the house they bought and when the market crashed they walked away with a year or two of living in a nice house and the $10,000 - $20,000 they were given at closing. In many areas they took the cooper pipes, appliances, sinks, toilet, counter tops, etc. with rheum when they left. This was a big win for many people.

Don't tell the story like that. It's simply not true. People were given bad loans, many with good and some with excellent credit, they were not given cash, their closing costs were paid and then the loan amount changed drastically and they lost their homes and left with nothing but bad credit. Later, these abandoned homes were robbed of their copper etc. by different people with different motives.

I didn't get a loan or a house. I only know of 1 person who purchased a home with a balloon loan. They were fully employed with a good salary and bought a simple house. They lost their home because of the large rate change. The person wasn't dumb and didn't have bad credit.

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45 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

These blackouts were planned? 

PG&E cut off power to close to a million customers to help prevent the start or spread of wildfires.  Its one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations for the utility.

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1 minute ago, peenie said:

Don't tell the story like that. It's simply not true. People were given bad loans, many with good and some with excellent credit, they were not given cash, their closing costs were paid and then the loan amount changed drastically and they lost their homes and left with nothing but bad credit. Later, these abandoned homes were robbed of their copper etc.

You don't think anyone took cash out of their homes (based on inflated values) when they refinanced?

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1 minute ago, peenie said:

Don't tell the story like that. It's simply not true. People were given bad loans, many with good and some with excellent credit, they were not given cash, their closing costs were paid and then the loan amount changed drastically and they lost their homes and left with nothing but bad credit. Later, these abandoned homes were robbed of their copper etc.

Partially true, the "sub-prime" market is people with less than great credit. And they were indeed given bad loans that they should never have qualified for.  Perfect storm.

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2 minutes ago, patweisers44 said:

You don't think anyone took cash out of their homes (based on inflated values) when they refinanced?

Not everyone refinanced. I'm sure there are many different stories and scenarios. Also, why are you blaming the naïve owners and not the unscrupulous banks and brokers?

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14 minutes ago, peenie said:

Don't tell the story like that. It's simply not true. People were given bad loans, many with good and some with excellent credit, they were not given cash, their closing costs were paid and then the loan amount changed drastically and they lost their homes and left with nothing but bad credit. Later, these abandoned homes were robbed of their copper etc. by different people with different motives.

I sold real estate in the sub prime market and 110% Loans were very common and I know exactly what happened. The loans weren’t bad, the people given the loans couldn’t afford them and they didn’t care because the government was backing them. The banks had no choice because legislation required that a certain percentage of loans had to be sub prime.

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10 minutes ago, patweisers44 said:

PG&E cut off power to close to a million customers to help prevent the start or spread of wildfires.  Its one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations for the utility.

Did they cut the power in south central LA or Oakland? 

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4 minutes ago, peenie said:

Not everyone refinanced. I'm sure there are many different stories and scenarios. Also, why are you blaming the naïve owners and not the unscrupulous banks and brokers?

Because ultimately you're responsible for the contracts you sign.  Have you ever bought a house?  The gov't requires massive amounts of disclosures, and every time I've gone through closing the people going over the docs with me very clearly, in layman's English, explained what each doc meant.  Anyone who acts like they didn't know what they were getting in to with a mortgage is LIEING.

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Just now, Baker Boy said:

The loans weren’t bad, the people given the loans couldn’t afford them and they didn’t care because the government was backing them. The banks had no choice because legislation required that a certain percentage of loans had to be sub prime.

Seems to me then that you're not seeing your fault. The person buying the home doesn't understand the ins and outs of loans. That's not their specialty, they just want a house and figure if you give them a loan, that they're qualified to get it.

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1 minute ago, Strike said:

Because ultimately you're responsible for the contracts you sign.  Have you ever bought a house?  The gov't requires massive amounts of disclosures, and every time I've gone through closing the people going over the docs with me very clearly, in layman's English, explained what each doc meant.  Anyone who acts like they didn't know what they were getting in to with a mortgage is LIEING.

No, not a home owner yet. I haven't save up enough, but I have the excellent credit.

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1 minute ago, peenie said:

Seems to me then that you're not seeing your fault. The person buying the home doesn't understand the ins and outs of loans. That's not their specialty, they just want a house and figure if you give them a loan, that they're qualified to get it.

That is excellent insight into naivety.  People like this should not be allowed to buy a doughnut.

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2 minutes ago, peenie said:

Seems to me then that you're not seeing your fault. The person buying the home doesn't understand the ins and outs of loans. That's not their specialty, they just want a house and figure if you give them a loan, that they're qualified to get it.

And again, when you sign your closing docs, they go over them with you.  They tell you how much your payment is, etc......Maybe you should go through the process before commenting based upon the fear mongering comments idiots like Liz Warren spout.

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Seems to me that what I'm saying is more correct than what you guys are saying. Do you really think people across the USA purposely bought homes they knew they would lose? I don't believe that. I think people were not realistic about what they could afford.

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On 10/16/2019 at 8:07 AM, Bert said:

That is the same as not knowing your sub prime mortgage has a balloon payment due in 5 years.

I rather disagree. One is not understanding the basic mechanics of a physical object. The other is naively assuming our financial system isn’t out to fock you in the ass

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21 hours ago, Drizzay said:

This is why I still contend that the mortgage crisis from 2007/8 was 50% banks, 50% stupid borrowers.

Seems sorta silly to me. The banks knew what they were doing pushing those horsesh1t financial products. The consumer did not and that was in fact what the banks were relying on. Basically you’re blaming the victim of predatory lending :dunno:

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1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

Seems sorta silly to me. The banks knew what they were doing pushing those horsesh1t financial products. The consumer did not and that was in fact what the banks were relying on. Basically you’re blaming the victim of predatory lending :dunno:

Victim is the wrong characterization IMO, willing accomplice is closer. Dumb accomplice to be sure, but willing.  The people that bought within their means are probably still in their home.

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Just now, TimmySmith said:

Victim is the wrong characterization IMO, willing accomplice is closer. Dumb accomplice to be sure, but willing.  The people that bought within their means are probably still in their home.

No, to be an accomplice you had to know what was going on and the buyers did not. That’s exactly what the banks were relying on. You think those people willfully bought a home they would lose? :wacko:

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9 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I rather disagree. One is not understanding the basic mechanics of a physical object. The other is naively assuming our financial system isn’t out to fock you in the ass

I disagree.  If either the solar panel purchasers or the mortgagees had read their agreements they would have known the consequences of signing the documents. 

I do agree the financial institutions were out to fock people but so is the power companies, auto dealerships, software manufacturers, law firms........... 

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27 minutes ago, peenie said:

Seems to me then that you're not seeing your fault. The person buying the home doesn't understand the ins and outs of loans. That's not their specialty, they just want a house and figure if you give them a loan, that they're qualified to get it.

You must associate with a lot of stupid people. I assume you have never bought a home because you are ignorant on the subject.

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1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

No, to be an accomplice you had to know what was going on and the buyers did not. That’s exactly what the banks were relying on. You think those people willfully bought a home they would lose? :wacko:

They willingly bought a house that they knew they couldn't afford.  The banks were relying on that more than anything else. 

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1 minute ago, TimmySmith said:

They willingly bought a house that they knew they couldn't afford.  The banks were relying on that more than anything else. 

And that’s predatory lending :dunno:

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Just now, IGotWorms said:

And that’s predatory lending :dunno:

And it applies to almost everything sold today.  :dunno:

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1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

No, to be an accomplice you had to know what was going on and the buyers did not. That’s exactly what the banks were relying on. You think those people willfully bought a home they would lose? :wacko:

That is exactly what happened. People with no credit really don’t care about affordability. The banks were forced by legislation to make the loans, millions of people took advantage and knew exactly what they were doing. 

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Just now, Baker Boy said:

That is exactly what happened. People with no credit really don’t care about affordability. The banks were forced by legislation to make the loans, millions of people took advantage and knew exactly what they were doing. 

You buy a house to live in it. I’m pretty sure most of the victims believed they would be able to do so long term. That certainly required a good deal of misplaced optimism but the banks were 100% more than happy to prey on that, and shame on them for doing so

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2 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You buy a house to live in it. I’m pretty sure most of the victims believed they would be able to do so long term. That certainly required a good deal of misplaced optimism but the banks were 100% more than happy to prey on that, and shame on them for doing so

Shame on the banks for sure but take some focking responsibility for your actions.  The terms were clearly spelled out in the loan documents.

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4 minutes ago, Bert said:

Shame on the banks for sure but take some focking responsibility for your actions.  The terms were clearly spelled out in the loan documents.

There is no responsibility for "victims".   At least in worms world.

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8 minutes ago, Bert said:

Shame on the banks for sure but take some focking responsibility for your actions.  The terms were clearly spelled out in the loan documents.

This.

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6 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You buy a house to live in it. I’m pretty sure most of the victims believed they would be able to do so long term. That certainly required a good deal of misplaced optimism but the banks were 100% more than happy to prey on that, and shame on them for doing so

You are assuming everyone shares your values. I am telling you my first had experience you are giving opinions. Every person who sihned a sub prime mortgage they couldn’t afford knew exactly what they were doing and almost all of the came out ahead. 

Why don’t you ever mention the Liberal legislation that was behind this bubble. It is fascinating and is a perfect example of the slippery slope.

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12 minutes ago, Bert said:

Shame on the banks for sure but take some focking responsibility for your actions.  The terms were clearly spelled out in the loan documents.

Why is there no shame for the government since they manufactured this crisis?

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12 minutes ago, Bert said:

Shame on the banks for sure but take some focking responsibility for your actions.  The terms were clearly spelled out in the loan documents.

That’s fair although I think a bit unrealistic. Nobody reads all that sh1t at closing — no one. Now you should understand the monetary terms, yes, but many simply lack the sophistication to do so and as a result they’re preyed upon by those who would deceive them.

I think it’s fair to hang a percentage on the victim here but I’d put it at like 5%.

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3 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

Why is there no shame for the government who manufactured this crisis?

Yes that too but since they were basically bought by the banks it’s a little hard to differentiate.

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3 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

That’s fair although I think a bit unrealistic. Nobody reads all that sh1t at closing — no one. Now you should understand the monetary terms, yes, but many simply lack the sophistication to do so and as a result they’re preyed upon by those who would deceive them.

I think it’s fair to hang a percentage on the victim here but I’d put it at like 5%.

The statement in bold is incorrect.

 

We will never agree which is fine.  In my opinion the blame is 40% the individuals, 30% banks and 30% the government. 

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1 hour ago, TimmySmith said:

That is excellent insight into naivety.  People like this should not be allowed to buy a doughnut.

I bought a doughnut and they gave me a receipt for the doughnut; I don't need a receipt for the doughnut. I'll just give you the money, and you give me the doughnut, end of transaction. We don't need to bring ink and paper into this. I just can't imagine a scenario where I would have to prove that I bought a doughnut. Some skeptical friend: "Don't even act like I didn't get that doughnut! I got the documentation right here...oh, wait it's at home...in the file...under 'D', for doughnut."

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15 minutes ago, Bert said:

We will never agree which is fine.  In my opinion the blame is 40% the individuals, 30% banks and 30% the government. 

Individual or victim?  I suppose if they didn't default they would be an individual.  But everyone's signature is on those all those forms, whether they read them or not. Sort of hurts victim status.  All those forms, by the way, are government regulation.  Which failed, miserably.

80% government, 10% greedy banks, 10% greedy people.

 

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I worked as a loan closer for subprime banks 2004-2007 and there were plenty of borrowers who knew exactly what they were signing.

Sub 650 credit score

80% first mortgage with a 7% + interest rate

A 30% 2nd mortgage - 5 year balloon/interest only - yes you were allowed to borrow more than 100% loan to value.

Paid a 3% "Broker fee" on the $400,000 mortgage (you do the math) in order to be approved.

All in a planned unit developement in the exurbs, where your house looks exactly like your neighbor's.

And the reason they willingly did this?  Included was the payoff of 2 car loans, their motorcycle/boat/snowmobile loan, a Macys card, a Best Buy card, and a few other credit cards that were completely maxed out.

These people were just bad with money, and focked over themselves.

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I've never owned a home, not yet. :(

My mom never owned a home nor my dad. :cry:

I didn't even know about the free for all loans. :dunno:

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7 minutes ago, peenie said:

I've never owned a home, not yet. :(

Consumer math was something taught when was in HS.  I never took it, but it was probably more valuable than Geometry.  

It should be mandatory that everyone learn and know how to borrow money.  Everyone's power in this world hinges on that ability.  It's amazing how few have zero borrowing ability and thus, no power at all.

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1 hour ago, Drizzay said:

I worked as a loan closer for subprime banks 2004-2007 and there were plenty of borrowers who knew exactly what they were signing.

Sub 650 credit score

80% first mortgage with a 7% + interest rate

A 30% 2nd mortgage - 5 year balloon/interest only - yes you were allowed to borrow more than 100% loan to value.

Paid a 3% "Broker fee" on the $400,000 mortgage (you do the math) in order to be approved.

All in a planned unit developement in the exurbs, where your house looks exactly like your neighbor's.

And the reason they willingly did this?  Included was the payoff of 2 car loans, their motorcycle/boat/snowmobile loan, a Macys card, a Best Buy card, and a few other credit cards that were completely maxed out.

These people were just bad with money, and focked over themselves.

Seems to me perhaps you’re trying to deflect from your own roll in this? I’m not trying to troll here — it’s a possibility you may want to consider 

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5 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

Seems to me perhaps you’re trying to deflect from your own roll in this? I’m not trying to troll here — it’s a possibility you may want to consider 

No role in that for me, other than making sure documents were signed correctly, the loan disbursement balances with the wire amount sent, and that the bank was in first lien position.  

As a title company, you don't give your opinions at the closing table.  You assume it is an agreed upon contract between a lending institution and consenting adults.

We just had to provide the Right to Rescission doc and explain to the borrower that they have up to 3 business days to use it.

:dunno:

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