2020 Baseball Hall of Fame/Modern Era ballots...

[edjr 5,564]

31 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Lol.  Pathetic. 

agreed. glorified DH

[Hardcore troubadour 12,642]

1 minute ago, edjr said:

agreed. glorified DH

Jealous. He was perfect. 

[Mike Honcho 4,032]

A Red Sox and Yankees fan arguing about the rank and merits of one their team's players....This is what I imagine hell is like.   

[Hardcore troubadour 12,642]

9 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

A Red Sox and Yankees fan arguing about the rank and merits of one their team's players....This is what I imagine hell is like.   

A Braves vs a Pirates fan is better? 

[edjr 5,564]

10 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

A Red Sox and Yankees fan arguing about the rank and merits of one their team's players....This is what I imagine hell is like.   

:d

Oh jeets is a HOFer, no doubt. Just below Big Papi on the all time DH list.

[Kanil 519]

6 hours ago, edjr said:

Career OPS 

Rank    Player (yrs, age)    On-Base Plus Slugging    Bats
1.    Babe Ruth+ (22)    1.1636    L
2.    Ted Williams+ (19)    1.1155    L
3.    Lou Gehrig+ (17)    1.0798    L
4.    Barry Bonds (22)    1.0512    L
5.    Jimmie Foxx+ (20)    1.0376    R
6.    Hank Greenberg+ (13)    1.0169    R
7.    Rogers Hornsby+ (23)    1.0103    R
8.    Mike Trout (9, 27)    .9999    R
9.    Manny Ramirez (19)    .9960    R
10.    Mark McGwire (16)    .9823    R
11.    Mickey Mantle+ (18)    .9773    B
12.    Joe DiMaggio+ (13)    .9771    R
13.    Stan Musial+ (22)    .9757    L
14.    Frank Thomas+ (19)    .9740    R
15.    Larry Walker (17)    .9654    L
16.    Johnny Mize+ (15)    .9591    L
17.    Jim Thome+ (22)    .9560    L
18.    Todd Helton (17)    .9531    L
19.    Jeff Bagwell+ (15)    .9480    R
20.    Mel Ott+ (22)    .9471    L
21.    Ralph Kiner+ (10)    .9459    R
22.    Lefty O'Doul (11)    .9451    L

…

…

…

337.    Johnny Bench+ (17)    .8175    R
     Zack Wheat+ (19)    .8175    L
339.    Eugenio Suarez (6, 27)    .8173    R
340.    Dave Nilsson (8)    .8172    L
341.    Paul Molitor+ (21)    .8170    R
     Gene Woodling (17)    .8170    L
343.    Joe Torre+ (18)    .8169    R
344.    Derek Jeter (20)    .8168    

 

 

Should be in.

[edjr 5,564]

41 minutes ago, Kanil said:

Should be in.

only 325 ahead of jeets

[Big Blue 06 195]

I’m not gonna get baited by Ed; I’ll leave that to RP.  We all know jester is getting in, whether it’s 85%, 90 or 100.

Welcome back Ed.

[posty 2,296]

Pros/Cons of the 2020 Modern Baseball Era Ballot candidates...

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Dwight Evans (https://www.mlb.com/redsox/news/dwight-evans-hall-of-fame-case)

For two decades, Red Sox fans chanted his nickname every time he made one of his signature plays in right field or came up with another clutch hit.
“Dewey, Dewey, Dewey,” the roars would go at Fenway.
Now, 29 years after he played his last game for Boston, Red Sox fans are again cheering on Dwight Evans in his quest to be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
Evans, who played for the Sox from 1972-90, is one of 10 people on the Modern Baseball Era ballot that was released on Nov. 4. Candidates must earn 75% of the votes from the committee, which consists of 16 members. Evans will find out on Sunday, when the results will be announced at the Winter Meetings on MLB Network at 8 p.m. ET.
While it is often said that a player can’t get any better after he retires, Evans is unique in that his offensive strength (getting on base at a high volume) is something that is weighted far more in player evaluations today than when he had his short run on the Baseball Writers' Association of America ballot from 1997-99.
The right-handed hitter played alongside Hall of Famers Carl Yastrzemski, Jim Rice, Carlton Fisk, Dennis Eckersley and Wade Boggs in his career. Evans now has another chance to join his former teammates in Cooperstown.

THE CASE FOR
• Evans was not only the most productive right fielder of the 1980s, but he was one of the best offensive players of the decade. His 256 homers and 605 extra-base hits were the most of any player from 1980-89. This, for a man who was more known for his defense.
• Yes, that defense. Decades before analytics shaped where players would position themselves, Evans had an innate sense to align himself perfectly. This set him up for the countless tremendous plays he made in his career -- none more memorable than the lunging grab he made to rob Joe Morgan of a game-winning homer in the 11th inning of that epic Game 6 of the 1975 World Series. Evans also possessed a cannon arm, and he still holds the Red Sox’s record with eight career Gold Gloves.
• Now, back to the offense. Evans led the American League in OPS twice, walks three times, on-base percentage once and total bases once. In his age-30 through age-37 seasons, he had an impressive line of .280/.385/.496 while averaging 27 homers, 100 runs, 96 RBIs and 96 walks. That type of performance led to Evans finishing in the top five in the AL Most Valuable Player Award voting twice and the top 10 four times.
• Evans is aiming to become the 26th player with the primary position of right field to enter the Hall of Fame. Evans compares, at least on par, with many of them. Al Kaline was a first-ballot Hall of Famer and his career OPS is .855 and his OPS+ is 134, compared to .840 and 127 for Evans. Roberto Clemente, you ask? His career OPS (.834) and OPS+ (130) are slightly below that of Evans. Evans also had much better power than Clemente. While Dave Winfield had better longevity than Evans, leading him in games played, 2,973-2,606, Evans had a better career WAR (67.1-64.2), per Baseball Reference. Evans also edges out Winfield in OPS and had a significantly better on-base percentage (.370-.353).
• If you need a sweetener to put Evans over the top, consider his performance in the two World Series he played in. While the Red Sox lost to the Reds in seven games in 1975 and to the Mets in seven in ’86, Evans was a standout performer in both Fall Classics, totaling a .977 OPS while hitting .300 with three homers.

THE CASE AGAINST
• Interestingly, Evans wasn’t nearly the same offensive player in his 20s as he was in his 30s. From 1972-80, he hit .262 with a .792 OPS. It wasn’t until 1981 -- his age-29 season -- when Evans started to emerge as a stud on offense. If Evans does make it into the Hall of Fame, be ready for him to heap praise at Walt Hriniak, the hitting coach who helped turn his career around beginning late in the ‘80 season.
• Due to that less-than-spectacular first half of his career, Evans lacks some of the round numbers that many Hall of Famers have. He would have needed to play another few seasons to reach 3,000 hits, finishing at 2,446. Evans had 385 homers, which doesn’t stand out in the corner outfield like it would at some other positions.
• Surprisingly, Evans was an All-Star just three times in his career, and only twice in his decade of dominance in the 1980s. By comparison, Kaline was an 18-time All-Star, while Clemente and Winfield each made it 12 times. You wonder how many more All-Star Games Evans would have played in if OBP and OPS were as valued as they are today, and if defense had the metrics of this era.

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Steve Garvey (https://www.mlb.com/dodgers/news/steve-garvey-s-hall-of-fame-case)

Steve Garvey was a 10-time All-Star, a Most Valuable Player, a four-time Gold Glove winner, a two-time All-Star Game MVP and a two-time MVP of the National League Championship Series. But he’s not in the Hall of Fame and is one of the most polarizing candidates in the game’s debate between old-school views and modern analytics.
In 15 years on the Baseball Writers' Association of America Hall of Fame ballot from 1993-2007, Garvey received a high of 42.6% of the vote and a low of 20.5%, never seriously approaching the 75% threshold for election. Garvey will find out if he was elected on Sunday, when the results will be announced from the Winter Meetings in San Diego on MLB Network at 5 p.m. PT.
Now 70 and a cancer survivor, Garvey has been bypassed three times by the Veterans/Modern Era committees.
But consider this from Hall of Fame manager Tom Lasorda: "Steve Garvey is a Hall of Famer in all ways, as far as I'm concerned. He exemplified the words 'role model,' he was a great hitter, a great ballplayer."

THE CASE FOR
• If the definition of fame is the state of being known or talked about by many people, especially on account of notable achievements, 10 All-Star appearances should qualify, including Garvey’s write-in election in 1974, when he was the game’s MVP and went on to win that season’s NL MVP. He had four top-10 finishes for NL MVP, including one runner-up.
• No Dodger excelled in the limelight better than Garvey. He went to the World Series four times with the Dodgers (winning in 1981) and once with the Padres. At one time he held the NLCS record for home runs and RBIs. He hit .356 in 90 NLCS at-bats, .319 in 113 World Series at-bats and .393 in 28 All-Star Game at-bats. His postseason OPS was .910.
• He was an ironman: 19 Major League seasons including the NL record streak of playing in 1,207 consecutive games.
• Offensively, Garvey was a hitting machine who led the NL in base hits twice. He hit .300 seven times when that really meant something, had 20 or more home runs six times, 100 or more RBIs five times and 30 or more doubles seven times.
• Defensively, Garvey was such a liability as a Minor Leaguer that the Dodgers tried him at third base and the outfield before he finally settled at first base to hide an erratic throwing arm. Nonetheless, he became a short-hop specialist and went on to win four consecutive Gold Gloves while playing in an infield that was together for 8 1/2 seasons. He held Major League records among first basemen for 159 consecutive errorless games in a season and 193 consecutive errorless games in a career. He led NL first basemen in putouts six times, fielding average five times, total chances five times and double plays once.

THE CASE AGAINST
• Detractors point out that Garvey fell well short on the Hall of Fame “automatic” benchmarks of his generation, specifically his lack of 3,000 hits (he had 2,599) and 400 home runs (he hit 272).
• He never excelled in the categories that matter for WAR, with only two top-10 finishes, peaking at seventh – despite a high-leverage slashline of .335/.369/.505.
• He never won a batting title or led a league in home runs, RBIs or runs scored. He rarely walked and never slugged more than .500.

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Tommy John (https://www.mlb.com/news/tommy-john-modern-era-hall-of-fame-case)

Thanks to the groundbreaking surgery that bears his name, Tommy John’s legacy endures as much as any pitcher from his generation. But is that legacy, combined with the breadth of his achievements on the field, enough to put him in the National Baseball Hall of Fame?
The Hall’s 16-member Modern Baseball Era electorate will vote on John and nine other players and luminaries from the 1970s and ‘80s on Sunday at the Winter Meetings in San Diego, and candidates must receive at least 12 votes to earn a spot in the Hall’s famous Plaque Gallery. You can watch the announcement on MLB Network on Sunday at 8 p.m. ET/5 p.m. PT.
It’s another chance for John, who lasted the maximum 15 years on the Baseball Writers’ Association of America ballot (peaking at 31.7% in his final year of consideration in 2009) before falling short in successive attempts in front of Veterans Committee electorates for the Classes of 2011, ’14 and ’18. The Hall did honor John alongside Dr. Frank Jobe, the surgeon who performed the eponymous “Tommy John” surgery by repairing John’s torn elbow ligament and extending the hurler’s career, during its annual awards ceremony in ’13.
Before the Modern Baseball Era voters debate John’s Cooperstown merits in December, here’s a look at the cases for and against the pitcher’s inclusion in the Hall of Fame’s Class of 2020.

The case for John’s election
• While Jobe’s risky surgery helped John accumulate the years and statistics worthy of Hall of Fame consideration, the 18 months he missed to recover from the procedure actually might have kept him from reaching 300 wins -- the figure that provided the easiest path to Cooperstown for pitchers of his time.
But while John didn’t reach that magic round number, he did retire with 288 career victories. Only six pitchers -- Steve Carlton, Don Sutton, Phil Niekro, Tom Seaver, Gaylord Perry and Nolan Ryan -- won more games than John during the span of his career (1963-89), and all of them are in the Hall. So too are of four the next six pitchers behind him on that list: Fergie Jenkins (284), Bert Blyleven (271), Jim Palmer (268) and Catfish Hunter (224). Roger Clemens (354) is the only modern-era pitcher with more wins than John who is not enshrined in Cooperstown.
Pitcher wins don't carry much weight in today’s baseball climate, but they certainly did when John pitched -- and few moundsmen won more games in his day.
• From the narrative side, it’s hard to tell baseball’s story -- particularly in the late 1970s and early ‘80s -- without mentioning John. That’s because in addition to the impact of his surgery, John was legitimately a top-10 pitcher for two of the sport’s biggest franchises.
In his second season back from the operating table, John won 20 games with a 2.78 ERA and finished runner-up to Carlton in the 1977 National League Cy Young Award vote. The lefty then logged three more top-10 Cy Young Award finishes in as many years, first with the Dodgers in ’78 and then with the Yankees in ’79 and ’80, while going 80-35 with a 3.12 ERA overall in that four-year stretch. The Dodgers and Yankees squared off in three out of five World Series from ’77-81, and John pitched in all three of those Fall Classics. Unfortunately, it was always for the losing side.
• Another argument for John’s prominence in baseball history: He was a part of it for an incredibly long time. In fact, Ryan is the only pitcher who appeared in more Major League seasons than John’s 26, all the more remarkable because John tallied more campaigns after his potentially career-ending moment than before it.
• John’s longevity helped him compile 79.6 career WAR, per FanGraphs. That’s the 19th-highest total for any pitcher in modern history (since 1900), and the only pitchers above him who are not in the Hall -- Clemens and Curt Schilling -- are on the outside for off-the-field reasons.
• If you’re looking for the closest Hall of Fame comp for John, it might not even be a starting pitcher. Instead, it might be reliever Bruce Sutter, who earned a checkmark from many Hall voters based, in large part, because of his pioneering of the split-fingered fastball. Sutter rode that wipeout pitch to an excellent career, but he didn’t necessarily stand head and shoulders above some of the other great relievers of his era. The same could be said for John and his peers, but the impact of John’s surgery and subsequent recovery is felt much more in today’s game than Sutter’s splitter.

The case against John’s election
• It’s fair to profile John as more of a “compiler” than a hands-down dominant figure in the game. He never led his league in wins, ERA, strikeouts or innings pitched, and he was voted to the All-Star Game just four times over his 26 seasons.
• Apart from accolades like All-Star nods and Cy Young Awards, one of the best metrics for measuring a player’s peak is WAR7, a component of baseball writer Jay Jaffe’s JAWS system that looks at the total WAR from the best seven seasons of a player’s career (they don’t have to be in succession). John’s WAR7 is 34.6, per Baseball-Reference, which puts him in a tie for 164th all-time after the 2019 campaign. That WAR7 does tie John with Hall of Famer Whitey Ford, but it also puts him behind several recent pitchers who don’t figure to have a strong case in Hall voting, including Bartolo Colon (35.6), Mark Buehrle (35.8) and Javier Vazquez (36.0), who didn’t make the BBWAA ballot in ’16. Ford, of course, had far more postseason achievements on his Cooperstown resume than John.
• Adjusting John’s career 3.34 ERA for the era and league he played in leaves him with a 111 ERA+, or 11% better than the Major League average over the breadth of his career. That’s tied for 150th among pitchers with at least 1,500 innings in the Live Ball Era (1920-present), and only eight pitchers (Burleigh Grimes, Jesse Haines, Hunter, Morris, Herb Pennock, Red Ruffing, Sutton and Early Wynn) are in the Hall of Fame with an ERA+ less than or equal to that 111 mark. Only three of those pitchers -- Hunter, Sutton and Morris -- debuted after the Majors were fully integrated and expanded to 20 teams in 1962.
• Jack Morris is the only starting pitcher elected by the Veterans Committee since the Hall revised the system to evaluate eras on a rotating basis in the winter of 2010. John and Luis Tiant were the only non-elected starters who had appeared on Veterans Committee ballots at least three times this decade, and now John is the only pitcher who will receive a fourth such chance, since Tiant did not make this year’s ballot. Neither pitcher came close to the 75% threshold when they appeared before the Modern Baseball Era electorate two years ago.

After failing to gain election in any of his 18 prior auditions for Hall of Fame voters, it would seem unlikely that No. 19 will suddenly be the charm for John.

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Don Mattingly (https://www.mlb.com/yankees/news/don-mattingly-hall-of-fame-case)

Don Mattingly is once again up for consideration for the National Baseball Hall of Fame as one of 10 finalists vying for induction on the 2020 Modern Baseball Era ballot. Mattingly will learn his fate on Sunday, when the results will be announced on MLB Network at 8 p.m. ET.
The former Yankees great seemed to be well on his way to earning a place in Cooperstown in the late 1980s before a back injury derailed his career -- and ultimately cast doubt over his candidacy.
After retiring following the 1995 season at the age of 34, Mattingly went on to receive just 28.2% of the vote in his first year on the ballot in 2001. Though he received enough votes to remain on the ballot for the maximum 15 years, Mattingly never received another total as high as that first year.
Mattingly dropped off the ballot after receiving just 9.1% of the votes in his 15th and final year of candidacy in 2015. He was later named a finalist on the Modern Era Ballot in 2017, though he received fewer than seven votes from the 16-member committee (12 needed for election).
Is this the year Donnie Baseball finally breaks through into Cooperstown? Let's take a look at the case both for and against Mattingly's potential induction.

The case for Mattingly
• Mattingly was arguably the best player in Major League Baseball for a six-year span from 1984-89. He averaged 27 homers and 114 RBIs, while putting up a .327/.372/.530 batting line in those six campaigns. The .530 slugging percentage led all qualified hitters, while Mattingly also paced the Majors in extra-base hits (428) and RBIs (684) during that six-year span.
• Mattingly took home nine Gold Glove Awards and the 1985 American League Most Valuable Player Award -- a combination that has proven to be Hall of Fame worthy. He is one of just 11 players to win at least nine Gold Gloves and an MVP, and eight of those 11 are in the Hall of Fame. The only three from that group yet to be inducted to Cooperstown are Ichiro Suzuki (who figures to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer when he's eligible in 2025), Keith Hernandez and Mattingly.
• Though he hit a respectable 222 homers, Mattingly wasn't just a power-hitting first baseman. He finished his career with a .307 average, making him one of just eight first basemen in Major League history to hit at least .305 with 200 homers. That list includes five Hall of Famers in Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Johnny Mize, Hank Greenberg and Jim Bottomley. The other three: Mattingly, Todd Helton (received 16.5% of the vote in his first time on the ballot last year) and current Reds first baseman Joey Votto.
• Mattingly remains one of just three players to homer in a Major League record eight consecutive games. He started his run on July 8, 1987 with a two-homer game against the Twins, and later added another two-homer effort on his way to hitting a total of 10 home runs in an eight-game span. The only other players in big league history to homer in eight consecutive games are Dale Long and Hall of Famer Ken Griffey Jr.
• While one player being in the Hall of Fame does not necessarily mean all similar players should have a spot in Cooperstown, it's hard not to compare Mattingly's resume to that of Kirby Puckett. As far as traditional stats, Mattingly finished with 222 homers and 1,099 RBIs to Puckett's 207 home runs and 1,085 RBIs. Mattingly had a .307/.358/.471 batting line to Puckett's .318/.360/.477. Mattingly retired at 34 years old after playing 1,785 games due to back issues, while Puckett called it a career at 35 after 1,783 games due to glaucoma.
Yet when both players appeared on the ballot for the first time in 2001, Puckett cruised into Cooperstown with 82.1% of the vote compared to Mattingly's 28.2%. There were some key differences. Crucially, Puckett won two World Series titles compared to zero for Mattingly, and Puckett was remarkably consistent over 12-year career, which included 10 All-Star selections and ended with him hitting .314 with 23 homers and 99 RBIs in his final season. Mattingly's career, meanwhile, was separated into two distinct halves -- the latter of which is detailed below.

The case against Mattingly
• Though Mattingly was one of the game's elite talents from 1984-89, he was an entirely different player starting with the '90 campaign in which he was limited to just 102 games due to a congenital disk deformity in his back. Mattingly averaged only 10 homers and 64 RBIs over his final six seasons, while hitting .286/.345/.405. He topped out at 17 homers and 86 RBIs during that stretch. Though his superb defense continued throughout his career, Mattingly ended his career by hitting .288 with seven homers and 49 RBIs over 128 games in '95.
• Notably for a Yankees star, Mattingly never won a World Series title and -- playing almost his entire career before the introduction of the Wild Card -- only appeared in one postseason series, the 1995 ALDS against Seattle. To his credit, Mattingly delivered in his one October chance, going 10-for-24 (.417) with four doubles, one homer and six RBIs over those five games.
• Mattingly finished his career with an .830 OPS -- not a typical Hall of Fame threshold for a first baseman. Of the 17 first basemen in the Hall of Fame, Mattingly's .830 OPS would be higher than only three -- Jake Beckley, High Pockets Kelly and Frank Chance, all of whom debuted prior to the Live Ball Era (since 1920). Beckley put up a .797 OPS from 1888-1907, Kelly had a .794 OPS from 1915-32 and Chance posted a .788 mark from 1898-1914.
• In fact, Mattingly's .830 OPS isn't just low for a potential Hall of Fame first baseman, but it's on the lower side for any player who did not have some sort of speed element to his game. Though 76 Hall of Famers had a career OPS below .830, all 76 had more career triples than Mattingly, and all but one, Ernie Lombardi, had more stolen bases.
• With Mattingly's career cut short due to injury, his raw numbers of 222 homers and 2,153 hits don't stack up very well either. Only two Hall of Fame first basemen finished with fewer homers and hits than Mattingly -- the aforementioned High Pockets Kelly, whose career spanned 1915-32, and Frank Chance, who played from 1898-1914.

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Thurman Munson (https://www.mlb.com/yankees/news/thurman-munson-modern-era-hall-of-fame-case)

Thurman Munson’s passion as a ballplayer was undeniable. The debate surrounding his Hall of Fame qualifications could prompt similar intensity.
Munson, the Yankees’ regular catcher from 1970-79, appears on the latest Modern Baseball Era Ballot featuring Hall of Fame candidates whose impact on baseball emerged primarily between 1970-87. Munson -- whose death in a plane crash on Aug. 2, 1979, further stirs the emotion of his supporters -- never received more than 15.5% of the vote during the 15-year period when he was eligible for election by tenured members of the Baseball Writers’ Association of America. Induction requires 75% of the vote.
During the span of the Veterans Committee voting process in the early 2000s, in which all living Hall of Famers cast ballots, Munson peaked at the polls in 2007, when he was named worthy of enshrinement by six of 84 electors.
Time and accompanying changes in perspective may boost Munson’s support. At the very least, his is an especially intriguing case. The results will be announced from the Winter Meetings in San Diego on Sunday at 8 p.m. ET on MLB Network.

The case for Munson
• According to Jay Jaffe’s JAWS system, which combines career Wins Above Replacement with a player’s seven best seasons, Munson ranks 12th all-time among catchers and ahead of six Hall of Famers at his position: Roger Bresnahan, Roy Campanella, Buck Ewing, Rick Ferrell, Ernie Lombardi and Ray Schalk.
• Munson maintained a pattern of achievement instantly, winning American League Rookie of the Year Award in 1970 and the AL MVP Award in '76 while being named to seven All-Star squads in his 10 full seasons.
• Though Munson isn’t as synonymous with October as his Yankees teammate Reggie Jackson, he was a legitimate postseason force. In 30 postseason games, he batted .357/.378/.496 with three homers and 22 RBIs. The bigger the stage, the taller Munson stood: He hit .373 with a .909 OPS in three World Series.
• Munson excelled on defense, always a catcher’s top priority. He won three Gold Glove Awards -- in 1971 he committed one error in 615 chances -- and threw out 44% of baserunners who tried to steal on him in the postseason.

The case against Munson
• Munson performed in an era that included renowned catchers such as Carlton Fisk, Ted Simmons, Gary Carter and, one of the greatest ever, Johnny Bench. Nothing exists on Munson’s resume that would prompt an observer to rank him above the others.
• The manner of Munson’s death was beyond unfortunate. But his power and run production declined sharply during the season he perished, continuing a trend that began the previous year. Judging Munson’s statistics amid the backdrop of his plane crash seems heartless, but those who are asked to evaluate greatness have not been overwhelmed by his career figures.
• Bill Freehan (.262/.340/.412 slash line, 6,900 plate appearances, 1,591 hits, 200 homers, 758 RBIs, 11 All-Star Games, five Gold Glove Awards) isn’t in the Hall of Fame. Nor is Elston Howard (.274/.322/.427, 5,845 PAs, 1,471 hits, 167 homers, 762 RBIs, 12 ASGs, two Gold Gloves). Why should Munson (.292/.346/.410, 5,905 PAs, 1558 hits, 113 homers, 701 RBIs, seven ASGs, three Gold Gloves) enter Cooperstown ahead of them?

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Dale Murphy (https://www.mlb.com/news/dale-murphy-2020-modern-era-ballot-chances)

Nearly three decades after retiring, Dale Murphy might finally have a chance to enjoy that Hall of Fame election celebration, which many had anticipated before he spent 15 years on the official ballot and never came close to garnering enough votes from members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America.
Murphy’s candidacy has been revived as he once again finds himself on the Modern Baseball Era ballot. The Braves legend is one of 10 people placed on this ballot, which will be voted on by a 16-person electorate on Sunday at the Winter Meetings in San Diego. Those who receive 75% (12 of 16) of the vote will gain election, which will be announced on MLB Network at 8 p.m. ET.
When Murphy was on the official Hall of Fame ballot from 1999-2013, he never received more than 23.2 percent of the vote and garnered as much as 15 percent of the vote just four times ('99, '00, '01 and '13). He received just seven of the 16 votes cast when he was first placed on the Modern Baseball Era ballot in '17.
Making that election even more disheartening was the fact the 2017 committee included three key Braves figures -- Bobby Cox, John Schuerholz and Don Sutton. None of them are part of this year’s committee.
Here’s how Murphy’s Hall of Fame case breaks down:

The case for Murphy
Prime years (1982-87): Murphy won consecutive National League MVP Awards ('82 and ’83) and finished in the top 10 of voting over four consecutive years ('82-85). He also earned five straight Gold Glove Awards during this stretch. His 32.4 fWAR (FanGraphs’ WAR model) ranked ninth in MLB during this six-season span. Each of the eight players ranked ahead of him is a Hall of Famer: Wade Boggs, Rickey Henderson, Cal Ripken Jr., Mike Schmidt, Tim Raines, Gary Carter, Eddie Murray and Alan Trammell.
'80s icon: Recognizing those six great seasons does not make a Hall of Fame career, but it’s necessary to point out Murphy produced the second-most home runs (308) and RBIs (929) during the 1980s. Schmidt hit the most home runs with 313 and matched Murphy’s RBI total, which was trumped only by Murray (996).
Different perspective: Unlike when he was on the official ballot, Murphy is to be measured against only nine other men -- seven position players (Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey, Don Mattingly, Thurman Munson, Dave Parker, Ted Simmons and Lou Whitaker), one pitcher (Tommy John) and one former labor chief (Marvin Miller).
Murphy hit more home runs (398) than each of these candidates, and he’s the only member of this group to win multiple MVP Awards. His career 121 OPS+ matches that of Harold Baines, who was elected via this process last year.

The case against
Steep decline: Along with finishing two shy of the 400-homer milestone, Murphy hit just .238 with 86 homers and a .715 OPS over his final four full seasons (1988-91), which weren’t significantly shortened by injury. He totaled just 44 games with the Phillies and Rockies from '92-93.
At the end of the 1987 season, a 31-year-old Murphy had compiled 310 homers and an .862 OPS over 6,383 plate appearances. He averaged 36.3 homers from '82-87, and then never again hit more than 24 in a season. Even when accounting for a steady decline, it was easy to project Murphy would easily surpass the 400-homer mark and keep his career OPS around .850.
Through 1991, all 17 players who had hit 400 homers with a career OPS of at least .850 are Hall of Famers.
Murphy finished his career with 398 homers and an .815 OPS. Baines, Raines and Henderson are the only outfielders who began their career after 1950 and were elected to the Hall of Fame after hitting fewer than 400 homers with an OPS at .815 or below.
Precedence: Baines’ election might have widened the boundaries for election. But looking just at Murphy’s best six-year stretch, his 144 wRC+ still ranked sixth in the Majors, trailing Pedro Guerrero (154), Schmidt (151), Boggs (150), Jack Clark (147) and Mattingly (146).
While Schmidt and Boggs are Hall of Famers, Guerrero and Clark saw their candidacies weakened by defensive value. Defense should account for some of the debate regarding this year’s Modern Era candidates.
Competition: The only players on this year’s Modern Era ballot with a better career OPS+ than Murphy (121) are Evans and Mattingly (both at 127).
Mattingly won each of his nine Gold Glove Awards as a first baseman, while Evans captured his eight Gold Glove Awards before transitioning from right field to first base. Murphy won each of his five Gold Glove Awards as an outfielder.
This year’s committee might also continue to show respect for Simmons, who never won a Gold Glove but has continued to be lauded for his skills as a catcher. The current Braves scout finished just one vote shy of election when he was on this same ballot in 2017.

---

Dave Parker (https://www.mlb.com/news/dave-parker-s-hall-of-fame-case)

Dave Parker has another chance at the Hall of Fame. The Pirates and Reds great is one of the 10 candidates on the Modern Baseball Era ballot for 2020.
Parker was on the Modern Baseball Era ballot -- which considers Hall of Fame candidates whose primary contributions to baseball were between 1970-87 -- once before, in 2017. He received fewer than half the votes, falling well short of the 75 percent needed for induction. That was after Parker spent 15 years on the BBWAA ballot from 1997-2011, never receiving more than 24.5 percent of the vote (in '98, his second year on the ballot).
But in his prime, Parker was one of MLB's most feared sluggers at the plate and had one of the league's best arms in right field. And he played long enough to amass some impressive counting stats, too. But will those stats, and the memory of that reputation, be enough? Parker will learn his fate on Sunday, when the results will be announced from the Winter Meetings in San Diego on MLB Network at 8 p.m. ET.
Here's how Parker's Hall of Fame case breaks down.

The case for Parker
1. He has the hardware
Pick an award, and Parker probably won it. He won the National League Most Valuable Player Award in 1978. He was a seven-time All-Star, a three-time Gold Glover and a three-time Silver Slugger. Parker won back-to-back NL batting titles. He was the All-Star Game MVP in 1979. And Parker was a two-time World Series champion, with the Pirates in '79 and the A's a decade later. That's a lot of accolades, and a lot of different kinds of accolades, and they were no accident. Parker was an elite all-around player.
Parker showcased that against the best competition. To win the All-Star Game MVP in 1979, he threw out Jim Rice at third base and Brian Downing at the plate. When Parker led the "We Are Family" Bucs to a World Series championship later that year, he hit .341 in the postseason and .345 against the Orioles in the Fall Classic, while also throwing out the go-ahead run at the plate in the sixth inning of a one-run win in Game 2.
2. At his best, he ranked among the best
Check out Parker's numbers from his 1978 NL MVP Award-winning season for the Pirates: 30 home runs, 20 stolen bases, 117 RBIs, an MLB-leading .334 batting average and .979 OPS, an NL-leading .585 slugging. The year before, he'd led the NL with a .338 batting average and 215 hits.
Parker closed out the 1970s with a five-year peak run from '75-79 in which …
• His 345 extra-base hits trailed only Hall of Famers Rice and Mike Schmidt.
• His 942 hits ranked sixth behind Pete Rose, Steve Garvey, Rice, Rod Carew and George Brett.
• His .321 batting average ranked second to Carew, his .532 slugging percentage ranked third behind George Foster and Rice, and his .909 OPS ranked third behind Foster and Rice.
• He led the Majors with 72 outfield assists, ahead of Dwight Evans and Dave Winfield.
3. He has numbers that stand up
Parker retired after 19 big league seasons as a .290 hitter, with 2,712 career hits, 940 extra-base hits, 339 home runs, 1,493 RBIs, 154 stole bases and 143 outfield assists.
There are 26 right fielders in the Hall of Fame. Parker would rank 15th out of that group in hits -- ahead of, for example, recent strong-armed inductee Vladimir Guerrero (2,590). He'd rank 10th in extra-base hits, 11th in homers and 13th in RBIs.
Parker's 143 outfield assists, meanwhile, are tied for eighth-most of any player to debut in the divisional era (since 1969).
Among all Hall of Famers, Parker would rank just outside the top 50 in hits (right behind Lou Gehrig), 44th in RBIs (right behind Guerrero) and 38th in extra-base hits (just ahead of Eddie Mathews and Ivan Rodriguez).
4. He persevered
Parker's pinnacle was his 1978 MVP season and '79 World Series run, the early part of his career, when he looked like he was on the path to surefire all-time greatness as Roberto Clemente's successor in right field in Pittsburgh. All of that was nearly derailed by injuries, weight gain and off-the-field issues during the early '80s. But Parker revitalized his career after signing with his hometown Reds in December 1983.
In Cincinnati, Parker returned to star form with back-to-back top-five NL MVP Award finishes in 1985 and '86, including a runner-up finish in '85, when he belted a career-high 34 homers and led the league with 125 RBIs. Parker's last All-Star season was in '90, at age 39 with the Brewers, 13 years after his first with the Bucs. He won his final Silver Slugger Award that year, too.

The case against
1. He didn't hit the milestones
Parker's career numbers are very good, but are they really Hall of Fame-worthy? He's not in the 3,000-hit club. He didn't reach 400 home runs. He wasn't a career .300 hitter. Round numbers aren't everything, but Parker doesn't really have that one standout stat or milestone number that screams "Hall of Fame."
2. Cooperstown levels
Wins Above Replacement is far from a be-all, end-all stat for Hall of Fame worthiness. But it's a good quick benchmark of how a player performed over his career, and Parker is pretty far below the typical Hall of Famer.
The average WAR for Hall of Fame position players is 69, according to Baseball Reference. For Hall of Fame right fielders, it's 71.5. Parker's career WAR was 40.1. That's about a 30 WAR difference, which is a lot.
Recent right-field inductees like Guerrero (59.4 WAR) and Tony Gwynn (69.2) easily exceed Parker. So do Parker's outfield contemporaries who were elected, like Andre Dawson (64.8), Winfield (64.2) and Reggie Jackson (74.0). But Parker does have the edge over 2019 Today's Game inductee Harold Baines (38.7).

3. Was he elite for long enough?
Parker's resurgence with the Reds was impressive, but does it get him to the Hall? As good as he was in 1985 and '86, and as a 39-year-old in '90, Parker's stardom might have been too sporadic once his late-'70s run was over.
Parker had four seasons with a .900 OPS or higher; only one came after the 1970s. He had six seasons hitting .300 or better, and five seasons slugging .500 or better; only one of each came after the '70s. Four of his five highest extra-base hit totals were in the '70s, as were each of his four highest stolen base totals.
It's not that Parker was unproductive after that amazing half-decade for the Pirates. But the majority of his career came after that one sustained superstar run. Did he have Hall of Fame consistency?

---

Ted Simmons (https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/ted-simmons-hall-of-fame-case)

Ted Simmons is one of 10 finalists on the Modern Baseball Era ballot for the Hall of Fame. This is his third time being considered for election. Simmons debuted on the Baseball Writers’ Association of America ballot in 1994, but he fell off after after receiving just 3.7% of the vote.
Then Simmons was reconsidered by the Modern Baseball Era committee that last time it convened. In that election, he fell one vote shy of the 12 needed for election. That committee elected Jack Morris and Alan Trammell to the Class of 2018. Given how close Simmons came, it stands to reason he may have a good chance this time around -- though there is new company on the ballot and other deserving candidates. The results will be announced from the Winter Meetings in San Diego on Sunday at 7 p.m. CT on MLB Network.
Simmons’ career was, in many ways, overshadowed by other players of his generation, especially at his own position. But if you dig into stats for catchers -- including doubles, hits and games played -- you will no doubt find his name. In fact, Simmons' name came up recently, when Robinson Chirinos homered in back-to-back World Series games, becoming the first catcher to do so since Simmons in 1982.
Here's a look at the case both for and against Simmons’ induction into the Hall of Fame.

The case for Simmons
• RBIs have been an official statistic since 1920, and in that span, only one catcher has amassed more RBIs than Simmons’ 1,389. The only catcher ahead of him is Yogi Berra, who had 1,430. That’s right, Simmons drove in more runs than Johnny Bench, Mike Piazza and Iván Rodríguez -- all of whom are enshrined in Cooperstown. Though RBIs are not an end-all, be-all stat, there’s no question that they demonstrate a certain involvement in that team’s offense and show that the player contributed in a countable way. Another stat in which Simmons is among the top catchers in history? Doubles. He had 483 in his career, second among catchers only to Rodríguez, who had 572. The same is true for Simmons' ranking among catchers in hits, as his 2,472 are second only to Rodríguez.
• Longevity is another strong point in Simmons’ favor. He debuted as a 19-year-old in September 1968 and played until the end of the '88 season, at the age of 39. More than 85 percent of his career starts were at catcher, which is widely accepted as the most taxing position on a player’s body. Simmons played in 2,456 regular-season games, which is more than all but two players who were primarily catchers in their careers. The only catchers to play more games? Rodriguez (2,543) and Fisk (2,499), both of whom have plaques in upstate New York.
• WAR is of course not a stat that existed when Simmons appeared on the writers' ballot, but the metric has been retroactively calculated and could factor into the committee's assessment. Simmons accumulated 50.3 WAR in his career, a mark that is within the top 200 among position players all-time. In fact, he’s one of nine catchers with 50 or more WAR in their careers. The other eight are all in the Hall of Fame: Bench, Carter, Rodríguez, Fisk, Gabby Hartnett, Berra, Piazza and Bill Dickey. In all, there are 14 players in the Hall of Fame who played primarily catcher. That means Simmons recorded a higher WAR than six Hall of Fame catchers.
• There are many other metrics that put Simmons among the 14 Hall of Fame catchers. He also hit 248 home runs, which would rank seventh among that group. Simmons hit .285 for his career, which would be tied for seventh. He was walked 855 times, which would rank fourth. Simmons scored 1,074 runs, which would rank fifth. He wasn’t known as a home run hitter, but in addition to the 248 regular-season homers, he also homered three times in the postseason -- including in back-to-back World Series games in 1982. Simmons is one of just six catchers to homer in two straight World Series games, and three of the four to do it before him are in the Hall of Fame.

The case against Simmons
• One of the first things that is typically mentioned when discussing Simmons’ case is the era in which he played. He played during a golden age for catchers -- overlapping with Gary Carter, Fisk and Bench -- and his resume doesn’t quite have the luster of those three, even if he did lead them in a few individual categories, especially counting stats. Simmons was an All-Star eight times in his career -- while Carter, Fisk and Bench each were All-Stars at least 11 times. Simmons won one Silver Slugger Award (1980), while Carter, Fisk and Bench captured that honor at least three times each. Each won at least one Gold Glove, too -- something that eluded Simmons.
• In terms of awards and honors on the mantel, there’s little comparison between that trio and Simmons. Perhaps that was because those three were busy winning all of the awards -- precluding Simmons from doing so -- but the fact remains that he has fewer to his name. One phrase often thrown around in Hall of Fame discussions is “best player of his generation” or “best player at his position when he played.” Whether you think its fair to consider that factor, based on stats and notoriety, Simmons is widely considered to have been the fourth-best catcher of his era.
• Simmons’ lack of power compared to the other three is probably the biggest differentiator. Bench, Fisk and Carter didn’t just hit more home runs than Simmons, they eclipsed the 300-homer plateau. The lowest career total among the three is 324, by Carter. So while Simmons compares pretty favorably to other Hall of Fame catchers, he finished behind the ones who were his most immediate peers. The same can be said of WAR. While Simmons did reach that 50 mark that has enshrined eight other catchers, he lagged behind Bench’s catcher-record 75.2, Carter’s 70.1 and Fisk’s 68.5.
• Simmons wasn’t considered a great defensive catcher. Certain defensive metrics back this up, including Runs Fielding, which assesses the number of runs better or worse than average that player was worth on defense. Simmons’ number is negative. Simmons led the Majors in passed balls twice and led his league a third time. He also struggled to throw out basestealers later in his career.

---

Lou Whitaker (https://www.mlb.com/tigers/news/lou-whitaker-hall-of-fame-argument)

Lou Whitaker was barely on the Hall of Fame ballot long enough to enjoy a healthy debate when Baseball Writers' Association of America writers considered him in 2001.
He has enjoyed a much deeper discussion over the past couple years, and chatter surfaced again when the National Baseball Hall of Fame announced Whitaker was one of 10 candidates under consideration for induction as part of the 2020 Modern Baseball Era ballot. The Tigers' legendary second baseman joins Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Marvin Miller, Thurman Munson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker and Ted Simmons on the list of Hall hopefuls.
Once the Modern Era Committee elected Alan Trammell and Jack Morris to the Hall in 2017, Whitaker was always expected to be the next for consideration. He barely missed out on being included on the ballot back then, and he has been argued since as one of the best players in history not in Cooperstown.
It’s an incredible rise for someone who received votes on just 2.9 percent of ballots in 2001. But will it be enough to make Whitaker the third player from the 1984 World Series champion Tigers to be inducted? Find out on Sunday, when the results will be announced from the Winter Meetings in San Diego on MLB Network at 8 p.m. ET.
Here’s a look at both sides of the argument:

THE CASE FOR WHITAKER
• Baseball historian and author Bill James, who helped usher in the era of modern statistics, ranked Whitaker in last year’s Bill James Handbook as the second-best player not in the Hall of Fame based on Win Shares and Wins Above Replacement, trailing only turn-of-the-century star Bill Dahlen. In terms of Win Shares, Whitaker is better than 139 players already in the Hall. James also ranked Whitaker as the 13th-best second baseman of all time.
• Whitaker was one of the most dynamic offensive second basemen not just of his era, but all time. His weighted runs created plus (wRC+) of 118 ranks 21st all-time among second basemen with at least 5,000 career plate appearances, and he ranks in the top 12 at his position in home runs and runs scored.
• Whitaker played second base for his entire 19-year Major League career. His 2,308 games at second rank fourth all time behind Hall of Famers Eddie Collins, Joe Morgan and Roberto Alomar. Whitaker played no other defensive position in his big league career despite converting from third base in the Minor Leagues, and he made just 22 starts at designated hitter.
• According to Baseball Reference, his 75.1 career WAR ranked fifth all time among players who spent at least 75 percent of their career at second base, ahead of Hall of Famers Ryne Sandberg (68.0), Alomar (67.1), Nellie Fox (49.0) and many more.
• Whitaker was also a standout defender. Though he played in an era before advanced defensive metrics, he led American League second basemen in Range Factor per Nine Innings three times, including his rookie year of 1978 and his age-36 season of '93. His 16.3 defensive WAR ranks 95th all time regardless of position. His 1,527 double plays turned are fourth most by any second baseman in Major League history.
• Whitaker’s peak years put him at the top of his position. He was an All-Star for five consecutive years from (1983-87), his age-26 through age-30 seasons. He won three Gold Gloves and four Silver Sluggers in that stretch and was a Top 10 finisher in AL MVP Award voting in '83. The Tigers won two AL East titles and a World Series crown in that span.

THE CASE AGAINST WHITAKER
• Though Whitaker’s peak years were elite among his peers, they weren’t elite for the league as a whole, or for his position all time. He never finished in the top five in MVP voting, and he placed in the top 10 only once. Whitaker was the AL Player of the Month and Player of the Week only once each, both in June 1983. His seven best WAR seasons added up to 37.9, below the 44.4 average of the 20 second basemen in the Hall of Fame.
• While Whitaker’s 1984 Tigers have been argued as one of the most dominant single-season clubs of their era, he appeared in just two postseasons over his 19-year career. His playoff numbers weren’t great: He hit a combined .204 (10-for-49) with a two doubles, a solo home run, 11 walks and 10 strikeouts.
• Some of Whitaker’s offensive stats belong in the camp of good, but not great, such as his 117 OPS+ (31st all-time among second basemen) and his .789 career OPS (39th). His .276 career batting average includes only one season over .300 with more than 400 plate appearances (that was 1983).
• Though Whitaker was still a second baseman at age 38, he struggled with durability in his post-peak years. His last season with at least 140 games played was his age-32 season in 1989, when he played 148.
 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,642]

I've read Munson has a chance. They are using today's analytics and applying them to his career and he's grading out every well. Hope. 

[Cruzer 1,992]

How in the hell does a guy lose a vote?

The spreadsheet shows writers who voted for a guy the year before, but not this year. That makes no focking sense at all.

[bandrus1 413]

6 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

How in the hell does a guy lose a vote?

The spreadsheet shows writers who voted for a guy the year before, but not this year. That makes no focking sense at all.

if a new person comes on the ballot that is more deserving than them they would change their vote

[Cruzer 1,992]

2 minutes ago, bandrus1 said:

if a new person comes on the ballot that is more deserving than them they would change their vote

Oh ok.. maybe I'm not understanding how the voting works then.

Are they only allowed a certain amount of votes each year?

[posty 2,296]

10 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

The spreadsheet

If it stayed right where it is (after 15 votes), I wouldn't mind Jeter being unanimous as Bonds and Clemens would be getting in, as they should be...

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

On 11/22/2019 at 5:15 AM, posty said:

Here are the candidates for the 2020 Modern Baseball Era Ballot...

https://baseballhall.org/modern-baseball-era-ballot-2020

Dwight Evans
Steve Garvey
Tommy John
Don Mattingly
Marvin Miller
Thurman Munson
Dale Murphy
Dave Parker
Ted Simmons
Lou Whitaker

Dale Murphy was my hero as a small kid, when I gave a fock about baseball. 

[posty 2,296]

9 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Dale Murphy was my hero as a small kid

Ditto...  I loved watching Murph play...  He would have been a great catcher if players were trying to steal center field instead of second...

[Cdub100 3,380]

Lou Whitaker is one of the top 10 second basemen of all time. He needs to be in.

[bandrus1 413]

2 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Oh ok.. maybe I'm not understanding how the voting works then.

Are they only allowed a certain amount of votes each year?

Yes I believe that's the system

[edjr 5,564]

1 hour ago, Cdub100 said:

Lou Whitaker is one of the top 10 second basemen of all time. He needs to be in.

It's the hall of good now anyway. Sweet Lou should be in. Marty Barrett should be in too

[Cdub100 3,380]

48 minutes ago, edjr said:

It's the hall of good now anyway. Sweet Lou should be in. Marty Barrett should be in too

I don't disagree with your hall of good comment. However, Lou being one of the best ever to play the position makes him great. I know nothing of Marty, but a quick look at his stats tell me no he shouldn't be in.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_2B.shtml

[edjr 5,564]

4 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

I don't disagree with your hall of good comment. However, Lou being one of the best ever to play the position makes him great. I know nothing of Marty, but a quick look at his stats tell me no he shouldn't be in.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_2B.shtml

Career .433 hitter in the world series 1.014 OPS. IN!

 

 

[Cruzer 1,992]

1 hour ago, bandrus1 said:

Yes I believe that's the system

Yes indeed - I looked it up some.

A voter may vote as few as zero (0), and as many as 10 - times per year.

So that makes a bit of sense.

[edjr 5,564]

2019    Mariano Rivera    100.0%
2016    Ken Griffey Jr.    99.3%
1992    Tom Seaver        98.8%
1999    Nolan Ryan        98.8%
2007    Cal Ripken Jr.    98.5%
1936    Ty Cobb    98.2%
1999    George Brett        98.2%
1982    Hank Aaron    97.8%
2007    Tony Gwynn        97.6%
2015    Randy Johnson    97.3%
2014    Greg Maddux    97.2%
2018    Chipper Jones        97.2%
1995    Mike Schmidt        96.5%
1989    Johnny Bench        96.4%
1994    Steve Carlton    95.6%
1936    Babe Ruth    95.1%
1936    Honus Wagner        95.1%
2009    Rickey Henderson    94.8%
1979    Willie Mays        94.7%
1989    Carl Yastrzemski        94.6%

 

[vuduchile 1,941]

1 hour ago, edjr said:

2019    Mariano Rivera    100.0%
2016    Ken Griffey Jr.    99.3%
1992    Tom Seaver        98.8%
1999    Nolan Ryan        98.8%
2007    Cal Ripken Jr.    98.5%
1936    Ty Cobb    98.2%
1999    George Brett        98.2%
1982    Hank Aaron    97.8%
2007    Tony Gwynn        97.6%
2015    Randy Johnson    97.3%
2014    Greg Maddux    97.2%
2018    Chipper Jones        97.2%
1995    Mike Schmidt        96.5%
1989    Johnny Bench        96.4%
1994    Steve Carlton    95.6%
1936    Babe Ruth    95.1%
1936    Honus Wagner        95.1%
2009    Rickey Henderson    94.8%
1979    Willie Mays        94.7%
1989    Carl Yastrzemski        94.6%

 

What possible reason could anyone give for not voting for these guys?

They all must have focked some sportswriter’s wife. 

[posty 2,296]

Marvin Miller and Ted Simmons elected to HOF on Modern Era ballot

https://www.mlb.com/news/hall-of-fame-modern-baseball-era-announcement

On the eve of baseball’s Winter Meetings getting underway in San Diego, the Hall of Fame Class of 2020 officially has its first members. Of the 10 candidates on the Modern Baseball Era ballot, the Veteran’s Committee announced on Sunday night that former MLBPA director Marvin Miller and Cardinals, Braves and Brewers catcher Ted Simmons had both been selected for induction in the Hall.

The other nominees on the ballot -- made up of a group whose primary contributions to baseball came between 1970 and 1987 -- included Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Thurman Munson, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker and Lou Whitaker. 

Miller is one of the most prominent figures in sports labor history, securing free agency for players and ridding them of the former reserve clause system in the mid-1970s. The Hall notes that the average player salary increased by roughly tenfold under his tenure as head of the Major League Baseball Players Association from 1966-82. Miller earned seven of the 12 votes (43.8 percent) needed for election during the last Modern Baseball Era ballot in 2017. 

Simmons fell just one vote shy of election when the Modern Baseball Era committee voted two years ago. The catcher hit .285 and tallied 2,472 hits, 483 doubles, 248 homers and 1,389 RBIs over 21 seasons with the Cardinals, Brewers and Braves, and he helped Milwaukee reach the World Series in 1982. Simmons was an eight-time All-Star, and he captured his lone NL Silver Slugger Award after batting .303 and knocking 21 homers for St. Louis in ’80. He lasted just one year on the BBWAA ballot after netting 3.7 percent of the vote in ’94. 

The rest of 2020’s group of inductees will be announced live on MLB Network on Jan. 21.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,642]

Munson> Simmons. 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Ted Simmons? Uggh.

The MLB HOF is just a joke now. Same as Rock and Roll HOF. Means nothing to me now. Let anybody in and I don’t care.

[bandrus1 413]

1 minute ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Ted Simmons? Uggh.

The MLB HOF is just a joke now. Same as Rock and Roll HOF. Means nothing to me now. Let anybody in and I don’t care.

Kinda tip your hand by saying rock and roll Hall of Fame ever mattered 

[cbfalcon 824]

Derek Jeter is nothing but the Robert Horry of baseball. 

[vuduchile 1,941]

Just now, cbfalcon said:

Derek Jeter is nothing but the Robert Horry of baseball. 

That’s just stupid.  

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

17 minutes ago, bandrus1 said:

Kinda tip your hand by saying rock and roll Hall of Fame ever mattered 

It doesn’t. Just pander to Rolling Stone and you get in. The baseball HOF used to be good. Not anymore 

[bandrus1 413]

21 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Ted Simmons? Uggh.

The MLB HOF is just a joke now. Same as Rock and Roll HOF. Means nothing to me now. Let anybody in and I don’t care.

The hall would be fine if it wasn't for the steroid era.. it took a while slate of players off and those votes went elsewhere opposed to not voting

[posty 2,296]

Induction into the Hall of Fame required being named on 75 percent of the ballots, so twelve votes are needed for induction. Simmons got 13 votes and Miller received 12. Dwight Evans (eight), Dave Parker (seven), Steve Garvey (six) and Lou Whitaker (six) all got at least six votes but fell short of the 12-vote threshold.Tommy John, Don Mattingly, Thurman Munson and Dale Murphy were also on this year's Modern Era ballot.

[Mike Honcho 4,032]

A little surprised that Simmons made it, I guess I never saw him as elite, more the guy in the tier below, Bench, Fisk and Carter---and a bit of a compiler.   I guess though if you are just nipping at the heels of the those guys stats wise, that's pretty good company.  Wouldn't have gotten my vote, but I'm up in arms over the selection.

As I said earlier, I would have voted for Whitaker who I felt was criminally underrated during the 80's.   

[vuduchile 1,941]

Announcement is about a week away.  Besides Jeter, who's getting in?

I have several Jeter rookie cards that will spike once the announcement is made.  I'll keep one and make a profit on the rest.  

Who else should I buy?

 

[edjr 5,564]

On 11/24/2019 at 7:42 AM, Big Blue 06 said:

I’m not gonna get baited by Ed; I’ll leave that to RP.  We all know jester is getting in, whether it’s 85%, 90 or 100.

Welcome back Ed.

He's a lock for HOF, I am not denying that.  a 1st ballot 100% is a joke, you know it matters.

[posty 2,296]

Here is the current tracker:

https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=F2E5D8FC5199DFAF!17003&ithint=file,xlsx&authkey=!ALD8BEbKmTajwcI

[edjr 5,564]

Bonds and Clemens   getting closer.

[posty 2,296]

1 minute ago, edjr said:

Bonds and Clemens   getting closer.

Yep...  Looking better...  Maybe, just maybe...

[Hardcore troubadour 12,642]

48 minutes ago, edjr said:

He's a lock for HOF, I am not denying that.  a 1st ballot 100% is a joke, you know it matters.

Lol. Hi, I’m Derek Jeter. I have the sixth most hits in the history of baseball and a fistful of titles, and I’m also one of the greatest post season players ever.  But Edjr and  another clown (most likely a met fan) big blue or something thinks someone should vote against me.