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Busboy

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Would you ever believe that this team did not make the playoffs in an 8-team ppr league?

- Russell Wilson, Kamara, Chubb, Davante Adams, DJ Chark, Lockett, Kittle, NE D/ST. 

Throwing myself a pity party.  That is all.

 

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In an 8 team, yes that's very believable.  In 8 team leagues, every team should be stacked with high performers. And it would therefore be a crap-shoot as to who would or wouldn't make the playoffs. 

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1 hour ago, Busboy said:

Would you ever believe that this team did not make the playoffs in an 8-team ppr league?

- Russell Wilson, Kamara, Chubb, Davante Adams, DJ Chark, Lockett, Kittle, NE D/ST. 

Throwing myself a pity party.  That is all.

 

How many teams make the playoffs in a 8 team league ?

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1 hour ago, crackills said:

which is why 8 team leagues suck.. zero skill needed

I'm with you on this. I was happy when my main league moved from 10 to 12 teams. So much more challenging and fun. 14 would be too much for my liking though. 10 and 12 teams is the ideal. And it does take skill to compete in those.

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Me either. 12 team PPR league, and this team is the highest scoring in the league - and I didn't make the playoffs at 6-7.

Rodgers

Chubb

A Jones

Julio

Robinson

Ertz

Melvin Gordon

SF D/ST

Zuerlein

Bench:

 

Stafford

Marvin Jones

Mattison

Ryan Griffin

Penny

McCoy

Ross III

 

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3 hours ago, Busboy said:

Would you ever believe that this team did not make the playoffs in an 8-team ppr league?

- Russell Wilson, Kamara, Chubb, Davante Adams, DJ Chark, Lockett, Kittle, NE D/ST. 

Throwing myself a pity party.  That is all.

 

Was your point that the roster was filled with studs? Because with the exception of Chubb, Chark and NE, every one of those players has been injured and/or disappointing at key times this year. So yeah, I'd believe that.

1 hour ago, crackills said:

which is why 8 team leagues suck.. zero skill needed

I've never understood this logic. A shallow league is different, sure, but it doesn't require any less skill. You have a team of all-stars, so do your opponents, so you still have to figure out how to beat them.

What would be fair is saying you don't necessarily need the skill of finding late-round talent like Chark or Singletary, and maybe a true stud like Lamar is more of a waiver-wire pickup than a late-round pick. But in terms of hitting on early-round picks (say, McCaffrey over Kamara/Saquon) it's really not that different from a 10-, 12- or event 16-team league.

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20 minutes ago, zftcg said:

What would be fair is saying you don't necessarily need the skill of finding late-round talent like Chark or Singletary, and maybe a true stud like Lamar is more of a waiver-wire pickup than a late-round pick. But in terms of hitting on early-round picks (say, McCaffrey over Kamara/Saquon) it's really not that different from a 10-, 12- or event 16-team league.

Picking McCaffery over Kamara/Saquon or having Chark or Singletary fall to you late is a skill?  Really?

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8 minutes ago, Showboat said:

Picking McCaffery over Kamara/Saquon or having Chark or Singletary fall to you late is a skill?  Really?

Some combination of skill and luck. Certainly identifying late-round fliers requires some level of skill. Knowing which first rounders will hit and which will bust ... eh, probably more on the luck side. But my point was that the latter is the same regardless of league size. Whereas in an 8-teamer a guy like Singletary probably doesn't even need to be rostered.

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I'd believe that team didn't make the playoffs. Lots of injuries, underperformance, and inconsistent performance.

In an 8 team league you need your stars to be stars b/c it's hard to make up the stars points through depth, since everyone's depth is pretty decent. With Kamara and Adams (probably your top two picks?) being injured/playing poorly I'm not surprised you ended up 6-8 or 7-7.

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4 hours ago, Busboy said:

Would you ever believe that this team did not make the playoffs in an 8-team ppr league?

- Russell Wilson, Kamara, Chubb, Davante Adams, DJ Chark, Lockett, Kittle, NE D/ST. 

Throwing myself a pity party.  That is all.

 

Eight teamer yes I do. 

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3 hours ago, crackills said:

which is why 8 team leagues suck.. zero skill needed

What skill is needed? 

No skill in luck. 

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34 minutes ago, weepaws said:

What skill is needed? 

No skill in luck. 

So it's luck you lose every year and other teams in your league win every year?

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There is definitely skill/ knowledge in FF. Skill as in understanding players, matchup, strength/ weaknesses, waivers/ trade strategy. Of course there is luck as well, nobody is arguing against that. 

People like to sh!t on FF as all luck where anyone with zero knowledge can win.. look that can happen in any game and even in the NFL, but reality is that those that know what they are doing will consistently finish in the top 3rd of the league. You can set up a league to reduce the chance of lucky wins somewhat. In an 8 team league your draft is your team and even on auto draft you will have a great team. Very little use for waivers as your only decision is which stud to start. 

In 10-14 team league with expanded rosters and inj you have to research and even watch games.. as stats alone can be very misleading and there is a LOT of bad advice out there from so called experts. Here true football fans will usually do much better than those that know nothing about football. 

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10 minutes ago, crackills said:

There is definitely skill/ knowledge in FF. Skill as in understanding players, matchup, strength/ weaknesses, waivers/ trade strategy. Of course there is luck as well, nobody is arguing against that. 

People like to sh!t on FF as all luck where anyone with zero knowledge can win.. look that can happen in any game and even in the NFL, but reality is that those that know what they are doing will consistently finish in the top 3rd of the league. You can set up a league to reduce the chance of lucky wins somewhat. In an 8 team league your draft is your team and even on auto draft you will have a great team. Very little use for waivers as your only decision is which stud to start. 

In 10-14 team league with expanded rosters and inj you have to research and even watch games.. as stats alone can be very misleading and there is a LOT of bad advice out there from so called experts. Here true football fans will usually do much better than those that know nothing about football. 

Weepaws doesn't get this. Dude hasn't even watched a game in nearly ten years and throws out advice more than anyone on this site. So the way he plays the game, yes, it's all luck. He takes the 'what the heck, throw someone out there and hope for the best' approach.

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50 minutes ago, crackills said:

There is definitely skill/ knowledge in FF. Skill as in understanding players, matchup, strength/ weaknesses, waivers/ trade strategy. Of course there is luck as well, nobody is arguing against that. 

People like to sh!t on FF as all luck where anyone with zero knowledge can win.. look that can happen in any game and even in the NFL, but reality is that those that know what they are doing will consistently finish in the top 3rd of the league. You can set up a league to reduce the chance of lucky wins somewhat. In an 8 team league your draft is your team and even on auto draft you will have a great team. Very little use for waivers as your only decision is which stud to start. 

In 10-14 team league with expanded rosters and inj you have to research and even watch games.. as stats alone can be very misleading and there is a LOT of bad advice out there from so called experts. Here true football fans will usually do much better than those that know nothing about football. 

No skill involved in how they perform. 

Its just luck, your team scores more points then your opponent, you didn’t do anything, but pick players, that you hope scores more then the other team. Luck. 

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37 minutes ago, sderk said:

Weepaws doesn't get this. Dude hasn't even watched a game in nearly ten years and throws out advice more than anyone on this site. So the way he plays the game, yes, it's all luck. He takes the 'what the heck, throw someone out there and hope for the best' approach.

There you go, I agree with you. 

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52 minutes ago, crackills said:

There is definitely skill/ knowledge in FF. Skill as in understanding players, matchup, strength/ weaknesses, waivers/ trade strategy. Of course there is luck as well, nobody is arguing against that. 

People like to sh!t on FF as all luck where anyone with zero knowledge can win.. look that can happen in any game and even in the NFL, but reality is that those that know what they are doing will consistently finish in the top 3rd of the league. You can set up a league to reduce the chance of lucky wins somewhat. In an 8 team league your draft is your team and even on auto draft you will have a great team. Very little use for waivers as your only decision is which stud to start. 

In 10-14 team league with expanded rosters and inj you have to research and even watch games.. as stats alone can be very misleading and there is a LOT of bad advice out there from so called experts. Here true football fans will usually do much better than those that know nothing about football. 

I'd love to see data on this. Do smaller leagues have more random outcomes? Or are smart fantasy players likely to perform better regardless of league size? My suspicion is that it's the latter, but I admit I have no idea.

I will say, I don't really buy that it's easier to decide "which stud to start". Let's assume that in an 8-teamer, you're deciding between the RB16 and RB19 in your flex spot, whereas in a 12-teamer, you're deciding between the RB25 and RB28. Yes, the first two are better players, but the decision between them is just as difficult.

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1 hour ago, sderk said:

So it's luck you lose every year and other teams in your league win every year?

I agree with you. 

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1 hour ago, crackills said:

There is definitely skill/ knowledge in FF. Skill as in understanding players, matchup, strength/ weaknesses, waivers/ trade strategy. Of course there is luck as well, nobody is arguing against that. 

People like to sh!t on FF as all luck where anyone with zero knowledge can win.. look that can happen in any game and even in the NFL, but reality is that those that know what they are doing will consistently finish in the top 3rd of the league. You can set up a league to reduce the chance of lucky wins somewhat. In an 8 team league your draft is your team and even on auto draft you will have a great team. Very little use for waivers as your only decision is which stud to start. 

In 10-14 team league with expanded rosters and inj you have to research and even watch games.. as stats alone can be very misleading and there is a LOT of bad advice out there from so called experts. Here true football fans will usually do much better than those that know nothing about football. 

I actually like how you call it knowledge - I would call it paying attention, but I still don't think there is much skill involved.  Over the long run researching match-ups and understanding strengths and weaknesses provides information/knowledge that probably performs better than picking random dudes, but at the end of the day you are really just making an educated guess, going on a hunch, using tried and true techniques (never bench your studs, never start a player coming back from a multi-week injury....), but there are no guarantees that using that knowledge (or "skill") will provide any benefit on any given week or even over a longer period of time.  A few examples: 

Will Fuller and TY Hilton were both returning from multi-week injuries in week 12 - playing against each other.  The Texans D hasn't been particularly strong against the pass and ranks worse that the Colts D and TY has a history of tearing it up against the Texans.  Your skill/knowledge tells you to bench both players, maybe start TY (who ended up being used mostly as a decoy going 3-18 while Fuller went 7-140).  Benching both worked out great if you had a DJ Moore (6-126-2) or Tyler Boyd (5-101-1) to plug in - not so great if your alternatives were Jamison Crowder (2-18) or Emmanuel Sanders (1-15).

Does it take skill to bench Amari Cooper (0-0) against the Pats in week 12 for someone like AJ Brown (4-135-1)?  I don't know if anyone had the nerve to do that, but based on that result (and using similar skills and knowledge) they might be inclined to bench Golladay (4-158-1) with a 3rd string QB on a short week against Bears D (widely considered to be one of the better defenses in the league) in week 13 for an AJ Brown (3-45) or Odell Beckham (3-29) - oops.....

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I think a lot of it is luck but an area where in-season skill has really come into play in our 12-team league is on the waiver wire auction... knowing when to pounce and pay up for players like Chark that can be viable long-term vs. spending a bunch of money on a Brian Hill that doesn't pan out.  But yes even that like everything else in fantasy has a fair amount of luck involved too.

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36 minutes ago, Busboy said:

I think a lot of it is luck but an area where in-season skill has really come into play in our 12-team league is on the waiver wire auction... knowing when to pounce and pay up for players like Chark that can be viable long-term vs. spending a bunch of money on a Brian Hill that doesn't pan out.  But yes even that like everything else in fantasy has a fair amount of luck involved too.

So what if Chark didn’t work out and B Hill was great, is that bad skill?  

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I'm reminded of that famous Billy Bean quote from Moneyball: "My $@#% don't work in the playoffs." When you're talking about a small sample size, there's going to be a lot of volatility, and obviously we will always be able to point to anomalies where the process was good but the results were not. But I strongly suspect the data would show that over the long term, smart fantasy players end up with better results than replacement-level players.

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I’m not a fan of 8 or even 10 team leagues, but that doesn’t suggest it requires less skill or luck. It’s like an arcade, simply a different game.

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On 12/5/2019 at 12:57 PM, IMMensaMind said:

Another team, which scored 5 points fewer than I did during the season, is 10-3. lol

*Jimmy swings in on a rope, says ‘H2H only needs to be stopped as the default format in season long fantasy. It is ridiculously flawed in ways that are clear to any reasonable person and a significant number of leagues suffer from the format. But comfort and cliches keep the party rolling.’. Then he leaves...*

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I played in two 12 team ppr leagues this year.  This is my first 7 picks from one of them.  This might be the worst team that I have ever drafted.

My team:
 
1. (4) David Johnson (Ari - RB)
 
2. (21) Antonio Brown (Oak - WR)
 
3. (28) Adam Thielen (Min - WR)
 
4. (45) Chris Carson (Sea - RB)
 
5. (52) O.J. Howard (TB - TE)
 
6. (69) Duke Johnson Jr. (Hou - RB)
 
7. (76) A.J. Green (Cin - WR)
 
This team actually almost made the playoffs due to an absurdly low "points against" streak.  It was comical.

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Yikes! That is certainly a grenade parade. That has to mean it is coming around the other way some other year, right!?

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