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sderk

Biden tells coal workers to learn code for future jobs

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Wasn't twitter banning people for telling all the media people losing their jobs the same?

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4 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Wasn't twitter banning people for telling all the media people losing their jobs the same?

Got banned on fb 3 days ago cause someone was commenting on my post and I told them to shut the fock up. Apparently that’s “bullying” and deserves a months timeout 😒. Swear these companies are such poosays

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In theory this is a good idea. The fact is we rely on h1bs that's should be USCs. If we could convert enough people to coders they would have good jobs and a new skill. 

 

This should actually be national movement. I'm currently looking for a Java programmer in Michigan for a full time job. 125k for someone with 3 to 5 years. Can't find a USC to fill the job so I am forced to submit h1s. I don't want to. But there are just not enough USCs to go around that have those skills. 

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8 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

In theory this is a good idea. The fact is we rely on h1bs that's should be USCs. If we could convert enough people to coders they would have good jobs and a new skill. 

 

This should actually be national movement. I'm currently looking for a Java programmer in Michigan for a full time job. 125k for someone with 3 to 5 years. Can't find a USC to fill the job so I am forced to submit h1s. I don't want to. But there are just not enough USCs to go around that have those skills. 

One of my hottest ex’s lives in Michigan. I’ll take it 

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1 minute ago, IGotWorms said:

Meh, he says dumb stuff sometimes. We all know that

He IS dumb. His statement is not. 

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6 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Meh, he says dumb stuff sometimes. We all know that

Coming from someone who knows how to say dumb stuff all the time. We all know that though. :thumbsup:

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Everyone is not smart enough to code.  This country needs relatively decent-paying jobs that require more brawn than brains such as digging coal out of the ground.  That said, skills such as coding need to be taught in our schools from an early age along with the skilled trades.  My daughter a few years ago was still having to memorize the state capitals.  WTF?  Such useless information.

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2 minutes ago, fandandy said:

Everyone is not smart enough to code.  This country needs relatively decent-paying jobs that require more brawn than brains such as digging coal out of the ground.  That said, skills such as coding need to be taught in our schools from an early age along with the skilled trades.  My daughter a few years ago was still having to memorize the state capitals.  WTF?  Such useless information.

This is bullshit. Anyone can code with enough training. Anyone. 

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It's like saying not everyone can learn their ABCs. There is a step by step process and your drive to learn takes you where you go. 

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2 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

This is bullshit. Anyone can code with enough training. Anyone. 

Then point me in the right direction brother cuz I live in Michigan and would love an opportunity to make that kind of money.

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By all means. There are tons of coding camps in Michigan. Pick a language  you wanna learn and with a name like Joe or Bob or Sam or Fred. You WILL get a job. This is not a joke. 

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Better yet. Go to a coding camp. Get comfortable with a language and I'll build you a resume that will get you a job making 60-90k starting out. Again. This is not a joke. At all. 

All day every day I look at fake resumes from India. Every single person from India has 8 years experience. Every one. When I see a USC I assume they are legit. Even if they are not I will take a lying USC over a lying h1b. 

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56 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

He IS dumb. His statement is not. 

Wrong on both fronts.

As to his statement, yeah sure we need coders. The 45 year old coal miner probably isn’t going to be one of them.

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15 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Wrong on both fronts.

As to his statement, yeah sure we need codes. The 45 year old coal miner probably isn’t going to be one of them.

Thinking like that is a throwback to when only nerds could code. Give me a dumb hick coal miner from bumblefock Virginia and a year. I assure you he will be a coder at the end of a year of 40 hour a week instruction. We are not in the time of hand coding. We're in a time of coding repositories where most of the you are going to do has been done and you can basically plug pieces in. It's not focking rocket science. 

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9 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

Thinking like that is a throwback to when only nerds could code. Give me a dumb hick coal miner from bumblefock Virginia and a year. I assure you he will be a coder at the end of a year of 40 hour a week instruction. We are not in the time of hand coding. We're in a time of coding repositories where most of the you are going to do has been done and you can basically plug pieces in. It's not focking rocket science. 

Never said it was. But I’m sure it is far different from coal mining, and middle aged folks don’t often pull off such huge career transitions.

Its like telling a janitor to become an insurance salesman. No reason it couldn’t be done (unless he’s a “special” janitor, like drobeski) but it also isn’t likely to happen.

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Just now, IGotWorms said:

Never said it was. But I’m sure it is far different from coal mining, and middle aged folks don’t often pull off such huge career transitions.

Its like telling a janitor to become an insurance salesman. No reason it couldn’t be done (unless he’s a “special” janitor, like drobeski) but it also isn’t likely to happen.

I 💯 agree middle aged folks don't often pull off a career change like that....without prompting. 

If there was a software appreciate program that allowed middle aged people to retool and get paid at the same time I would bet that would change drastically. 

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I WANT to hire people like that. I would seek these people out. 

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In MY day, we had punch cards that you had to keep in a specific order and then feed into the machine. 

And God forbid you drop your stack of cards.

Damn youngsters don't know a thing about REAL coding.

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2 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

I WANT to hire people like that. I would seek these people out. 

Most people don't.  

Anybody who thinks ageism isn't a thing is just plain wrong. 

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1 minute ago, wiffleball said:

Most people don't.  

Anybody who thinks ageism isn't a thing is just plain wrong. 

Again with new skills that are in demand and a highly remote workforce ageism would be mitigated. 

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He says that now, but 'computers' are a total fad. 

Like pet rocks or black Presidents.

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I know it sounds crazy. And I am by no means a thought leader in my industry but I spend a lot of time thinking of solutions to the problem of having to use h1bs instead of USCs.  

A national training program endorsed by all the government agencies would convert our workers that want to be retooled with skills that would provide them a real chance at a job in the IT industry. It would break us from our need for hundreds of thousands of foreign workers.  It would bring remote jobs to remote places for people that can't up and move for a good computer job. 

 

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1 hour ago, kilroy69 said:

This is bullshit. Anyone can code with enough training. Anyone. 

THIS is bullshit. I work with people who can't use excel. They have received lots of training and you think they can learn to write code well enough for a business to hire them? No focking way. Some people are just ditch diggers.

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Coding might be too big a leap, but maybe instead of mining coal they could mine bitcoin.  🤔

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The party of occupy Wall Street is on the way to nominating Joe Biden. Joe Biden, long time senator from Delaware. Delaware, where the banks go to do their dirt. So funny. 

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26 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

THIS is bullshit. I work with people who can't use excel. They have received lots of training and you think they can learn to write code well enough for a business to hire them? No focking way. Some people are just ditch diggers.

With a 40 hour a week year long training devoted to just that I bet they could. 

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55 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Never said it was. But I’m sure it is far different from coal mining, and middle aged folks don’t often pull off such huge career transitions.

Its like telling a janitor to become an insurance salesman. No reason it couldn’t be done (unless he’s a “special” janitor, like drobeski) but it also isn’t likely to happen.

Rent free

 

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35 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

With a 40 hour a week year long training devoted to just that I bet they could. 

How much time have you actually spent coding? 

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I don't know about these "coders", but somebody ought to learn these guys how to program. 

 

THAT's where the real money's at. 

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6 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

With a 40 hour a week year long training devoted to just that I bet they could. 

I don't think you understand what it takes to be a good developer in complex business situations. Sure, if you give someone a sandbox environment and want them to learn how to print 'Hello World' to the screen, that's one thing. But throw some highly complex business requirements over to some 40 year old dude, who is new to IT in general, and throw him into a system with thousands of function modules and programs all filled with thousands and thousands of lines of code and that is a different thing. All while they need understanding in full the development lifecycle and their role around design, build, and test, as well as them needing to be able to use multiple different tools such as excel, visio, HPALM, etc., that's a different thing. Also they need to be flexible in their understanding of picking up, in very short amounts of time and in detail, often times very complex business processes and custom applications and to be able to deal with that all in a business environment. And they have to constantly adapt to new changes trying to make them fit in with old existing processes.

And it's not just typing words in code. There can be tons of table configuration as well as understanding multiple types of interfacing. And there is tons more around this as well.

A lot of people are not cut out for that. It's like some people who are not good at math and some actuary saying math is easy, anyone can do it.

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Biden is a dirty corrupt creepy pervert who's also dumb as a bag of rocks. Hopefully finishes his life behind bars. 

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22 minutes ago, sderk said:

I don't think you understand what it takes to be a good developer in complex business situations. Sure, if you give someone a sandbox environment and want them to learn how to print 'Hello World' to the screen, that's one thing. But throw some highly complex business requirements over to some 40 year old dude who is new to IT in general, into a system with thousands of function modules and programs all filled with thousands and thousands of lines of code and that is a different thing. All while understanding in full the development lifecycle and their role as well as them needing to be able to use multiple different tools a masterfull way such as excel, visio, HPALM, etc. Also they need to be flexible in their understanding of picking up in very short amounts of time and in detail sometimes very complex business processes, custom applications and to be able to deal with this in a business environment. And you have to constantly adapt to new changes trying to make them fit in with old existing processes.

And it's not just typing words in code. There can be tons of table configuration as well as understanding multiple types of interfacing. And there is tons more around this as well.

A lot of people are not cut oit for that.

great post and well said!  :thumbsup:

 

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7 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

It's like saying not everyone can learn their ABCs. There is a step by step process and your drive to learn takes you where you go. 

But can everyone learn their USCs? Because I don't know what the hell that is.

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1 hour ago, sderk said:

I don't think you understand what it takes to be a good developer in complex business situations. Sure, if you give someone a sandbox environment and want them to learn how to print 'Hello World' to the screen, that's one thing. But throw some highly complex business requirements over to some 40 year old dude, who is new to IT in general, and throw him into a system with thousands of function modules and programs all filled with thousands and thousands of lines of code and that is a different thing. All while they need understanding in full the development lifecycle and their role around design, build, and test, as well as them needing to be able to use multiple different tools such as excel, visio, HPALM, etc., that's a different thing. Also they need to be flexible in their understanding of picking up, in very short amounts of time and in detail, often times very complex business processes and custom applications and to be able to deal with that all in a business environment. And they have to constantly adapt to new changes trying to make them fit in with old existing processes.

And it's not just typing words in code. There can be tons of table configuration as well as understanding multiple types of interfacing. And there is tons more around this as well.

A lot of people are not cut out for that. It's like some people who are not good at math and some actuary saying math is easy, anyone can do it.

These are things that can be drilled into people given enough time and attention....and money. Is it going to result in a top level programmer? No. Will it get them to the point where they are on track to a job not digging moats ? Hell yes. You have to evolve. You have to learn.  That's on them. Would you rather have Joe blow at age 45 learning Java or sitting in his trailer living off the system because all he knows is digging rocks? And it's not just programming. There are tons of options in the IT industry that go to h1bs that could instead go to citizens that are trained in THAT SPECIFIC SKILL. Democrats or Republicans I really don't give a fock. A retool on a national level is needed. Like a TVA for the 2020s where the goal is job training. Not only to help give older workers a new skill set but to give anyone who wants the option to. Hard core coding camps that only do that for a year and get paid like an apprentice with a clear path to employment with partnered companies. 

 

Tons of people will wash out. Tons others will find a path that they never dreamed of. 

The IT industry relies on foreign workers with skills that could be retooled from our own population or specifically trained for a job. I'm not an isolationist. I simply believe our population could support a ton more jobs for USCs than it is even now. 

 

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I'm not saying it's easy. I am saying it would be worth it if even a fraction of them turned out and I 💯 assure you we have wasted money on worse government programs. 

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46 minutes ago, Thornton Melon said:

But can everyone learn their USCs? Because I don't know what the hell that is.

A USC/GC is a worker that does not require a sponsor to work here. If I hired a USC I would say hey come on in and I'll pay ya 99k a year full time plus benefits. 

An h1b is going to be a contract worker. An Indian based  company brought them over here on an h1b/opt or ead visa. They work for them and act as a subcontractor for me on a 6 to 12 month contract. Typically they are fake. They ALL have 8 years experience on their resume but they might have 2 tops. Which is why I was saying earlier. If you get comfortable with a skillset within the IT industry as an American citizen  Hit me up. I will make you a resume that focking kills it. Citizens have no idea what they are up against when it comes to the tactics foreign workers use to get hired that make them stand out 

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