Coronavirus - Doomsday

[joneo 529]

5 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

ruh roh

I don't know that story. I can imagine it as really bad though. 

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-spain-says-rapid-tests-sent-from-china-missing-cases-2020-3

[Voltaire 4,554]

9 minutes ago, joneo said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-spain-says-rapid-tests-sent-from-china-missing-cases-2020-3

Here's an easily missed nugget from your link at the bottom of the page:

North Korea has been quietly soliciting coronavirus aid from other countries even though it has publicly denied the existence of any cases on home soil, according to a new report.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

1 hour ago, Strike said:

Do they work as well as the tests the chinks sent to Europe?

Who the fock knows? But see, the dirty little secret about the masks is.. They don't keep the virus out. What they do is keep everyone's funk in. If everyone's wearing one, it slows the spread not by keeping things away from you, but keeping fockers sneezes and coughs strapped to their focking face instead of spraying all over. 

 

1 hour ago, Voltaire said:

ruh roh

I don't know that story. I can imagine it as really bad though. 

Oh yeah. They've been sending out test kits with 80% failure rates all over Europe. 

I didnt have any use for this government before this. After this, it needs to be the #1 goal of the civilized world to isolate, contain, and ultimately break this government. 

[supermike80 1,285]

8 hours ago, Voltaire said:

About 1/3 the way down page 75, HTH provides a list of advice that comes from Johns Hopkins Hospital. On that list, is that the virus does better in dark places to bright and sunny is better.... in other words the top of the dashboard or passenger side seat may be better than the trunk. My wife leaves ours hanging near a window.

Yeah but 4 days?  Shouldn't that be enough

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

The below is straight from the company and is a press release, not a study. However, it looks promising to help those who advance to the worst stages of the disease.

 

 

https://www.cytodyn.com/newsroom/press-releases/detail/401/three-additional-patients-with-severe-covid-19-treated-with

The treatment with leronlimab is targeted as a therapy for patients who experience respiratory complications as a result of contracting SARS-CoV-2 causing the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19). Leronlimab is believed to provide therapeutic benefit by enhancing the immune response while mitigating the “cytokine storm” that leads to morbidity and mortality in these patients. The laboratory evaluation of the first four patients treated with leronlimab revealed that the immune profile in these patients approached normal levels and the levels of cytokines involved in the cytokine storm (including IL-6 and TNF alpha) were much improved. The results of the three additional patients are expected this week.

Jacob Lalezari, M.D., Interim Chief Medical Officer of CytoDyn, commented, “The preliminary results observed in patients who were severely ill with COVID-19 and treated with leronlimab are encouraging. Although the data set is still small, we saw fairly rapid and positive laboratory responses in all 4 patients treated, and in three of the 4 patients these laboratory results were associated with a favorable clinical outcome. We eagerly await the results of additional patients treated under the FDA’s emergency IND program, as well as the results of several randomized clinical trials about to start.”

 

[Leeson 54]

12 hours ago, jerryskids said:

 

Bullshiot.  The demand outpaces the supply because of this inane "single use" idea of making the perfect being the enemy of the good.  Get a mask -- cloth, N95, whatever.  Wear it when you need to go out.  Clean it when you can, as best as you can.  It will stop 99% of COVID.  

If we don't have a bunch of child laborers in China making millions of cloth masks, I will want to kidney punch Trump. 

Are you saying that the medical industry has been wasting money on one time use masks for decades?  

[jerryskids 5,172]

38 minutes ago, Leeson said:

Are you saying that the medical industry has been wasting money on one time use masks for decades?  

I really don't understand why this concept is so difficult.  Single use is better than re-use.  Re-use is better than no mask.  We don't have the luxury of single-use for the entire populace.  Ergo, re-use. 

[fandandy 3,311]

Just got back from Sam's Club in Saginaw.  A relatively short line at the doors before opening at 9 am.  Still no TP.  No real cleaning supplies to speak of.  No hamburger.  Lots of customers wearing masks, some with latex gloves on.  No temperature taken at the door.  Gas is down to 1.70 ish.  Was less than 1.60 at Sam's.  

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

I just got word that an employee of mine at our second location was in a gas station where a person confirmed to have the virus was at.  He showed up to work this morning before we found out about it.  Now we need to decide if it's possible he's contagious for being in that same store and if it's possible he contaminated any of our other employees.  We may have to shut that location down for a couple weeks now.

[Gladiators 1,903]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I just got word that an employee of mine at our second location was in a gas station where a person confirmed to have the virus was at.  He showed up to work this morning before we found out about it.  Now we need to decide if it's possible he's contagious for being in that same store and if it's possible he contaminated any of our other employees.  We may have to shut that location down for a couple weeks now.

Gas station employee was confirmed to have coronavirus or just a customer that had been at the gas station?

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

1 minute ago, Gladiators said:

Gas station employee was confirmed to have coronavirus or just a customer that had been at the gas station?

Just a customer.  That's what makes this hard to decide.  We have no idea if he was there before or after the infected customer.  How cautious should we be?  I'd be responsible for my employees getting it if he is actually contagious.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,593]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Just a customer.  That's what makes this hard to decide.  We have no idea if he was there before or after the infected customer.  How cautious should we be?  I'd be responsible for my employees getting it if he is actually contagious.

First thing is to send him home.   Captain obvious? 

[Leeson 54]

28 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I really don't understand why this concept is so difficult.  Single use is better than re-use.  Re-use is better than no mask.  We don't have the luxury of single-use for the entire populace.  Ergo, re-use. 

I think it's difficult because reusing masks, or even use of masks by the general public, could do more harm than good. If a mask doesn't fit properly, it requires the user to readjust. Touching their face more frequently than if they had no mask at all. 

We don't really have enough facts to determine the right course of action. Is a person more likely to get the virus through airborne contact or touching their face? I believe it's through touching items and then touching the face. 

 

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

15 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

First thing is to send him home.   Captain obvious? 

Yes, but he's been to work around my other employees.  If we send him home we almost also have to send everyone else home which means we need to close the store.  It sucks not knowing if he's contagious or not.

[Gladiators 1,903]

22 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Just a customer.  That's what makes this hard to decide.  We have no idea if he was there before or after the infected customer.  How cautious should we be?  I'd be responsible for my employees getting it if he is actually contagious.

Based on my understanding, you don't need to send him home based on CDC guidance.  It's a judgment call that you have to make and it's not easy.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

Just now, Gladiators said:

Based on my understanding, you don't need to send him home based on CDC guidance.  It's a judgment call that you have to make and it's not easy.

It's not easy at all.  Especially with how busy we are right now.  Farmers will be planting in a couple weeks.

[jerryskids 5,172]

6 minutes ago, Leeson said:

I think it's difficult because reusing masks, or even use of masks by the general public, could do more harm than good. If a mask doesn't fit properly, it requires the user to readjust. Touching their face more frequently than if they had no mask at all. 

We don't really have enough facts to determine the right course of action. Is a person more likely to get the virus through airborne contact or touching their face? I believe it's through touching items and then touching the face. 

 

As an engineer this makes no sense to me.  If I am wearing a mask I am by definition covering my mouth and nose, which is where the virus ultimately needs to go.  Worst case I touch my ears or the outer edge of my face to adjust.  Contrast that with having your mouth and nose completely exposed to any touching let alone breathing.

This airborne thing seems like a crock as well.  When an infected person exhales/coughs, the virus is in the moisture.  So I may not be able to get it if it hits my mouth directly, but if it lands on a table, it can survive for days until I touch it and lick my finger? 

[Gladiators 1,903]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It's not easy at all.  Especially with how busy we are right now.  Farmers will be planting in a couple weeks.

We currently have an employee traveling out of state to visit a sick parent.  We're setting him up to work from home for 2 weeks when he gets back.  That's not required and he'll be about 50% as efficient as he would be in the office, but that's what we're doing.  He's traveling by car and only stopping at gas stations as needed.  The perception of many here is that traveling is the kiss of death, so our decision is more to put people's minds at ease.

We have no idea what any of our employees are doing in their free time and someone can pick it up at Costco, the grocery store or the gas station.  We also have no idea what our employees' spouses or kids are doing and can't track their whereabouts.  We do have all employees fill out a daily form and turn it into safety.  Can only do so much...

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

5 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

We currently have an employee traveling out of state to visit a sick parent.  We're setting him up to work from home for 2 weeks when he gets back.  That's not required and he'll be about 50% as efficient as he would be in the office, but that's what we're doing.  He's traveling by car and only stopping at gas stations as needed.  The perception of many here is that traveling is the kiss of death, so our decision is more to put people's minds at ease.

We have no idea what any of our employees are doing in their free time and someone can pick it up at Costco, the grocery store or the gas station.  We also have no idea what our employees' spouses or kids are doing and can't track their whereabouts.  We do have all employees fill out a daily form and turn it into safety.  Can only do so much...

What makes this so difficult is know that a person was at the some location that we know has it.  Just knowing that puts more responsibility on use.

[Gladiators 1,903]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

What makes this so difficult is know that a person was at the some location that we know has it.  Just knowing that puts more responsibility on use.

This likely won't be the last situation like this that comes up either.

As HT mentioned, you can send the employee home for 2 weeks.  If he's already infected other employees, the place will need to be shut down as soon as someone else shows symptoms.  If no one else shows symptoms for 2 weeks, the employee who you sent home can come back to work and you're back up to full strength.  That's how I'd handle it.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

2 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

This likely won't be the last situation like this that comes up either.

As HT mentioned, you can send the employee home for 2 weeks.  If he's already infected other employees, the place will need to be shut down as soon as someone else shows symptoms.  If no one else shows symptoms for 2 weeks, the employee who you sent home can come back to work and you're back up to full strength.  That's how I'd handle it.

I like that idea but I worry about the other employees complaining about staying at work knowing they may have been exposed.  We're still working on it.

[Gladiators 1,903]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I like that idea but I worry about the other employees complaining about staying at work knowing they may have been exposed.  We're still working on it.

I'd certainly tell others that what you're doing is not required based on CDC guidance, but that you're doing it out of precaution.  Help put their minds at ease.

Are you following guidance?  EE's staying 6+ feet apart, washing hands regularly, no face-to-face meetings unless absolutely necessary, and sanitizing work areas and common spaces regularly?

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

1 minute ago, Gladiators said:

I'd certainly tell others that what you're doing is not required based on CDC guidance, but that you're doing it out of precaution.  Help put their minds at ease.

Are you following guidance?  EE's staying 6+ feet apart, washing hands regularly, no face-to-face meetings unless absolutely necessary, and sanitizing work areas and common spaces regularly?

We decided to have the employee go home and self quarantine to be safe.  Everyone else will continue to work unless they feel they need to quarantine as well or feel sick.

We are trying to follow guidance but it's been very hard.  People continue to ignore the signs posted and joke about distancing.  No physical contact but still too close to each other for my comfort.  We're trying to come up with new ways to get people to follow that guidance.  The timing for this is not great for us.

[ZeroTolerance 582]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

As an engineer this makes no sense to me.  If I am wearing a mask I am by definition covering my mouth and nose, which is where the virus ultimately needs to go.  Worst case I touch my ears or the outer edge of my face to adjust.  Contrast that with having your mouth and nose completely exposed to any touching let alone breathing.

Most people adjust their masks by pulling on them around the nose, or trying to make a better seal by pinching around the nose and along the top of the mask, or pulling down on the mask to get it firmly over their chin, all of which involve touching the mask. Touch something like a doorknob, adjust your mask, touch something else. Repeated opportunities to spread virus from a surface to the mask or vice versa. If you wear a securely fit mask, limit touching the mask (and sanitizing before and after doing so) then it is beneficial. The problem is you can walk into any Walmart and see a bunch of dingbats doing everything possible to make the mask pointless (constantly touching it, reaching inside to scratch their nose, taking it off then immediately bringing their hands to their face to eat, etc), and that isn't even taking into account how many are wearing a mask that doesn't actually make any type of seal, so they are still breathing in air around it anyway. 

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

@vuduchile @fandandy

 

Program highlights
There is no cost to apply.
The funding is meant to help retain workers, maintain payroll, and cover rent/mortgage/utility expenses.
The loan covers expenses dating back to February 15, to June 30 2020
The loan can be forgiven and essentially turn into a non-taxable grant.

The funds can be used for:
Payroll and commission payments
Group health care benefits/insurance premiums;
Mortgage, rent, and lease payments
Utilities
Interest on any other debt obligations that were incurred before the covered period.

How can I get my loan forgiven?
In the 8 weeks following your loan signing date, all expenses related to the following can be forgiven:
Payroll—salary, wage, vacation, parental, family, medical, or sick leave, health benefits
Mortgage interest—as long as the mortgage was signed before February 15, 2020
Rent—as long as the lease agreement was in effect before February 15, 2020
Utilities—as long as service began before February 15, 2020

More details here:

https://bench.co/blog/operations/pay...ction-program/

https://eig.org/news/understanding-t...ection-program

[nobody 2,032]

2 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

What makes this so difficult is know that a person was at the some location that we know has it.  Just knowing that puts more responsibility on use.

The conservative approach is send him home for two weeks.  He's not supposed to be contagious at this point if he has it, so keep everyone else in play.

[MTSkiBum 1,593]

@vuduchile @fandandy

 

The below links are official government sites. Too much information for me to read, but thought the links may be helpful to you two.

https://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/guide-to-the-cares-act

 

https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/disaster-assistance


https://www.sbc.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/9/7/97ac840c-28b7-4e49-b872-d30a995d8dae/F2CF1DD78E6D6C8C8C3BF58C6D1DDB2B.small-business-owner-s-guide-to-the-cares-act-final-.pdf

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

56 minutes ago, nobody said:

The conservative approach is send him home for two weeks.  He's not supposed to be contagious at this point if he has it, so keep everyone else in play.

We sent him home.  We'll play it by ear with the rest of our employees.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

20 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

We sent him home.  We'll play it by ear with the rest of our employees.

Did you tell him to get tested?  

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

1 minute ago, NorthernVike said:

Did you tell him to get tested?  

No.  They wouldn't test him anyway since he doesn't have any symptoms.  They aren't allowing people to get tested unless they have a fever, cough and troubles breathing the last I heard. 

[jerryskids 5,172]

2 hours ago, ZeroTolerance said:

Most people adjust their masks by pulling on them around the nose, or trying to make a better seal by pinching around the nose and along the top of the mask, or pulling down on the mask to get it firmly over their chin, all of which involve touching the mask. Touch something like a doorknob, adjust your mask, touch something else. Repeated opportunities to spread virus from a surface to the mask or vice versa. If you wear a securely fit mask, limit touching the mask (and sanitizing before and after doing so) then it is beneficial. The problem is you can walk into any Walmart and see a bunch of dingbats doing everything possible to make the mask pointless (constantly touching it, reaching inside to scratch their nose, taking it off then immediately bringing their hands to their face to eat, etc), and that isn't even taking into account how many are wearing a mask that doesn't actually make any type of seal, so they are still breathing in air around it anyway. 

I understand your points and I'm not trying to fix stupid.  Even so in your doorknob example the virus is on my hand already; I don't see that as adding to repeated opportunities, unless the idiot touched the door knob, messed with the mask, then sanitized his hands, messed with mask again, then touched another doorknob.

I also think your last example is another case of the perfect being the enemy of the good.  Just because it isn't a perfect seal doesn't mean it isn't blocking most of the contamination.

[Alias Detective 1,179]

anyone going to a salad bar or buffet ever again?

[Baker Boy 1,479]

In droplet form, the coronavirus is airborne for a few seconds after someone sneezes or coughs. It’s able to travel only a short distance before gravitational forces pull it down. Someone close enough for the virus particles to reach in that brief period can therefore be infected.

[fandandy 3,311]

7 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

anyone going to a salad bar or buffet ever again?

I never did before.  If something requires a sneeze shield it's a hard pass from me.  

[fandandy 3,311]

2 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

In droplet form, the coronavirus is airborne for a few seconds after someone sneezes or coughs. It’s able to travel only a short distance before gravitational forces pull it down. Someone close enough for the virus particles to reach in that brief period can therefore be infected.

I wonder if there is a higher infection rate in short people.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,593]

I’d assume this is the end of the Uber ride share, if not Uber itself.  I would think people are going to want a barrier between them and the driver, and vice versa. 

[vuduchile 1,940]

6 hours ago, fandandy said:

Just got back from Sam's Club in Saginaw.  A relatively short line at the doors before opening at 9 am.  Still no TP.  No real cleaning supplies to speak of.  No hamburger.  Lots of customers wearing masks, some with latex gloves on.  No temperature taken at the door.  Gas is down to 1.70 ish.  Was less than 1.60 at Sam's.  

Were you able to get other stuff you need?  

I haven’t seen TP around here in awhile.  We’re not out yet, but I’ve started rationing my own usage by crapping first thing then jumping in the shower immediately.   
 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,593]

DeBlasio has yet to release what neighborhoods are being hit the hardest in NYC.  So take Brooklyn, which has more people than many states, for example. They release stats for the whole borough, not the actual areas with the most cases. Draw your own conclusions. 

[fandandy 3,311]

1 minute ago, vuduchile said:

Were you able to get other stuff you need?  

I haven’t seen TP around here in awhile.  We’re not out yet, but I’ve started rationing my own usage by crapping first thing then jumping in the shower immediately.   
 

 

I made a really small order but they had everything else I needed except for yeast and there were limits of 1 on multiple things I bought which is fine for personal use but for me trying to restock a store it's kind of a pain, but definitely necessary and understandable.  I was a little surprised that TP was still out of stock.  I have plenty for personal use but none to resell.  I hated going out though.  That was the worst.  Maybe I'm just paranoid but going to Saginaw sucked and I was told later by a 7up sales rep that they have had quite a few cases recently.    In another life, I would have just hunkered down until this was all over.  

[vuduchile 1,940]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

DeBlasio has yet to release what neighborhoods are being hit the hardest in NYC.  So take Brooklyn, which has more people than many states, for example. They release stats for the whole borough, not the actual areas with the most cases. Draw your own conclusions. 

I’m not following.  What’s the angle?