MDC 5,805 Posted April 1, 2020 44 minutes ago, drobeski said: Italy's death toll was calculated using the idea that all those that died with the coronavirus, died of the coronavirus. I guess they've only confirmed that 12% of the close to 10k actually died of the virus. Hopefully the US isn't using the same method. There is a difference. Link? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted April 1, 2020 13 minutes ago, Alias Detective said: I’ve posted on this before. 160,000 people die each year in the US to respiratory complications. If we lose 200,000 Americans to Covid19 that would mean only an additional 40,000 Americans died from covid19. give or take a little.... I think that you are missing the point that it is likely that an additional 200,000 people will die. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted April 1, 2020 8 hours ago, shorepatrol said: Yep Even Trump isn't saying that. https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-deaths-top-4000-us-day-after-reaching-3000-mark Quote The number of coronavirus-related deaths topped 4,000 in the U.S. on Tuesday night, just one day after reaching the 3,000 mark. The U.S. has now surpassed China by over 700 COVID-19 fatalities — as the White House coronavirus task force said it projects 100,000 to 240,000 deaths from the virus and millions infected in the country. Without any measures in place to mitigate the contagion's spread, those projections jump to between 1.5 million and 2.2 million deaths from COVID-19. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
supermike80 1,258 Posted April 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said: Even Trump isn't saying that. https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-deaths-top-4000-us-day-after-reaching-3000-mark I really wish every single news outlet would stop comparing our numbers to China. China lies. They have lied, they are lying and they will continue to lie. I'm tired of it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted April 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, supermike80 said: I really wish every single news outlet would stop comparing our numbers to China. China lies. They have lied, they are lying and they will continue to lie. I'm tired of it. Then don't watch the news today. There is a new study out that talks about infections and uses China data. I agree that it is suspect, but they are saying: - Mortality rate of 0.66% - 3x more contagious than the flu - Men are 2x more likely to die than women even though they get infected at the same rate The reality is that we are flying blind and the original data (from China) is pretty much bullshit, so we can't even get some guidance. It is going to get worse, because China is opening back up and they are saying all of the infections are from returning people or people traveling to China. Who really believes that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,371 Posted April 1, 2020 China is lying, there is more to what transpired than meets the eye. This was not a direct act, it was stupid mistake that got out of hand because of the idiotic desire they have to not let people know that they can make dumb mistakes.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted April 1, 2020 30 minutes ago, MDC said: Link? https://www.ft.com/content/f3796baf-e4f0-4862-8887-d09c7f706553 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted April 1, 2020 “Italy has been a poster child for healthy people living into old age,” said Dr Ryan. “Unfortunately, in this case, having that older population may mean that the fatality rate appears higher because of the actual age distribution of the population.” But different countries are also reporting cases and deaths in different ways: in Italy, Covid-19 is listed as the cause of death even if a patient was already ill and died from a combination of illnesses. “Only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus,” said the scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health last week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RLLD 3,371 Posted April 1, 2020 Age is but one factor and alone is not THE factor. The contributions of age are actually the combination of factors that accompany age itself. At least that is what I am hearing at NIH in building 10 so far..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,805 Posted April 1, 2020 23 minutes ago, drobeski said: https://www.ft.com/content/f3796baf-e4f0-4862-8887-d09c7f706553 Thanks. No subscription though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted April 1, 2020 15 minutes ago, drobeski said: But different countries are also reporting cases and deaths in different ways: in Italy, Covid-19 is listed as the cause of death even if a patient was already ill and died from a combination of illnesses. Makes sense. Old age homes are getting hit hard and most if not all of the people there have heavy pre-existing conditions. Covid is the final blow that steals weeks or months of life. Even using the most generous stats in the worst case, roughly 1/1000 people in the US will die and a vast majority have a life changing pre-existing condition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkeye21 1,840 Posted April 1, 2020 16 minutes ago, RLLD said: Age is but one factor and alone is not THE factor. The contributions of age are actually the combination of factors that accompany age itself. At least that is what I am hearing at NIH in building 10 so far..... People with respiratory health problems. Anyone with high blood pressure is at risk. Those with sleep apnea are even at higher risk. The way it kills people is pretty scary. Sounds like a terrible way to die. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drobeski 3,061 Posted April 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, MDC said: Thanks. No subscription though. Yeah ...I pasted the text from it below the link Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted April 1, 2020 24 minutes ago, drobeski said: “Italy has been a poster child for healthy people living into old age,” said Dr Ryan. “Unfortunately, in this case, having that older population may mean that the fatality rate appears higher because of the actual age distribution of the population.” But different countries are also reporting cases and deaths in different ways: in Italy, Covid-19 is listed as the cause of death even if a patient was already ill and died from a combination of illnesses. “Only 12 per cent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus,” said the scientific adviser to Italy’s minister of health last week. My guess is that they have not spent a ton of time actually doing autopsies on the dead. All data at this point is suspect from China and Italy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,805 Posted April 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, drobeski said: Yeah ...I pasted the text from it below the link Okay. I am not sure what exactly that means. I’m guessing most people who die from the flu are also old or infirm in some way. That doesn’t mean the flu didn’t kill them. I am hoping this blows over to some degree in a month. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fireballer 2,352 Posted April 1, 2020 9 hours ago, shorepatrol said: Fellow RT's are taking selfies with fancy homemade masks looking for attention on facebook. The attention whooring from docs, nurses, first responders, etc is soooo tiresome. Just do your job and stay off FB and Insta. Signed...25 year veteran fireman in big urban city. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,940 Posted April 1, 2020 25 minutes ago, Fireballer said: The attention whooring from docs, nurses, first responders, etc is soooo tiresome. Just do your job and stay off FB and Insta. Signed...25 year veteran fireman in big urban city. Amen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FeelingMN 273 Posted April 1, 2020 46 minutes ago, Fireballer said: Just do your job and stay off FB and Insta. Covfefe Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryskids 5,069 Posted April 1, 2020 2 hours ago, MDC said: Okay. I am not sure what exactly that means. I’m guessing most people who die from the flu are also old or infirm in some way. That doesn’t mean the flu didn’t kill them. Interesting point. My FIL is in the hospital now; he had severe trouble breathing. He has a history of respiratory problems including a form of lung cancer which they've managed but never quite cured. He also has a history of heart attacks. They thought he had pneumonia but concluded it was a cardiac issue. He doesn't have covid, but if he got it, I'm pretty sure he'd be a goner. So that would be a covid death, but he's been living on borrowed time for years. I guess the question is: do we reach a point where we isolate people like my FIL, if they want to live. If they don't want to isolate, that is their choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias Detective 1,161 Posted April 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said: I think that you are missing the point that it is likely that an additional 200,000 people will die. Let me try an example to the extreme. If all but 1 person in the US died from covid 19 how many people would have died from a car accident in the same year? I don’t believe 200,000 people, without preexisting respiratory illness, will die of Covid19 in 2020. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, Alias Detective said: Let me try an example to the extreme. If all but 1 person in the US died from covid 19 how many people would have died from a car accident in the same year? I don’t believe 200,000 people, without preexisting respiratory illness, will die of Covid19 in 2020. Yet, Trump's team does not agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,805 Posted April 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Alias Detective said: I don’t believe 200,000 people, without preexisting respiratory illness, will die of Covid19 in 2020. So what? The flu and I’m sure many other illnesses kill mostly people who are compromised. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias Detective 1,161 Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, MDC said: So what? The flu and I’m sure many other illnesses kill mostly people who are compromised. How many deaths certificates say the flu? Zero. They give the underlying illness. How many will say Covid19? A lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted April 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said: Yet, Trump's team does not agree. Pretty sure they are laying out worst case. 80K is the number we're hearing from just about every place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkeye21 1,840 Posted April 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Alias Detective said: How many deaths certificates say the flu? Zero. They give the underlying illness. How many will say Covid19? A lot. Do we even know certificates are saying that? I'm curious what they actually say. I think it's possible it could say pneumonia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patriotsfatboy1 1,432 Posted April 1, 2020 1 minute ago, TimmySmith said: Pretty sure they are laying out worst case. 80K is the number we're hearing from just about every place. Not if you listened to WH briefing yesterday. Their low end is 100k and the upper end is 240k. They indicated (and this was Trump also saying it) that the numbers would be in the millions if they did not take the actions that they have done thus far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,805 Posted April 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Alias Detective said: How many deaths certificates say the flu? Zero. They give the underlying illness. How many will say Covid19? A lot. The CDC releases figures on death from the flu every year. I’m assuming many if not most of those people are also old and have respiratory conditions etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimmySmith 2,782 Posted April 1, 2020 Just now, Patriotsfatboy1 said: Not if you listened to WH briefing yesterday. Their low end is 100k and the upper end is 240k. They indicated (and this was Trump also saying it) that the numbers would be in the millions if they did not take the actions that they have done thus far. I know what they said. I am saying that they are intentionally preparing the US for a worst case that won't be as bad as the real worst case. Perhaps so we start listening. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias Detective 1,161 Posted April 1, 2020 National Vital Statistics - reporting Covid 19 as cause of death. Should “COVID-19” be reported on the death certificate only with a confirmed test? COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leeson 54 Posted April 1, 2020 If you're hit by a bus, what is listed as cause of death? The bus, or blood loss from blunt force trauma? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alias Detective 1,161 Posted April 1, 2020 Just now, Leeson said: If you're hit by a bus, what is listed as cause of death? The bus, or blood loss from blunt force trauma? I bet you will fall into multiple categories. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leeson 54 Posted April 1, 2020 Just now, Alias Detective said: I bet you will fall into multiple categories. Oh, you'll fall. And you're body parts will land in different categories. (street, sidewalk, yard) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RaiderHaters Revenge 3,518 Posted April 1, 2020 There was an interview I heard a couple days ago about a lady in Italy who was dying of cancer and was given less than a month to live. She then got corona virus and died 7 days later and it was listed as the cause of death Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KSB2424 3,082 Posted April 1, 2020 What in the hell is wrong with these people? https://thehill.com/homenews/house/490591-schiff-drafting-legislation-to-set-up-9-11-style-commission-to-review Quote Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) is drafting legislation that would set up an independent commission that would investigate why the country was unprepared for the coronavirus pandemic. We all know why he is doing this..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 5,805 Posted April 1, 2020 Just now, RaiderHaters Revenge said: There was an interview I heard a couple days ago about a lady in Italy who was dying of cancer and was given less than a month to live. She then got corona virus and died 7 days later and it was listed as the cause of death They probably did that just to make Trump look bad. Maybe she was just a crisis actor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lickin_starfish 1,454 Posted April 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, KSB2424 said: What in the hell is wrong with these people? https://thehill.com/homenews/house/490591-schiff-drafting-legislation-to-set-up-9-11-style-commission-to-review We all know why he is doing this..... Maybe if the President wasn't fending off the fake impeachment, he would have had more time for real issues? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkeye21 1,840 Posted April 1, 2020 It looks like COVID-19 is what's being reported as cause of death on certificates. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf Should “COVID-19” be reported on the death certificate only with a confirmed test? COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death. Certifiers should include as much detail as possible based on their knowledge of the case, medical records, laboratory testing, etc. If the decedent had other chronic conditions such as COPD or asthma that may have also contributed, these conditions can be reported in Part II. (See attached Guidance for Certifying COVID-19 Deaths) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vuduchile 1,940 Posted April 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, lickin_starfish said: Maybe if the President wasn't fending off the fake impeachment, he would have had more time for real issues? Aren't you the guy who said this? The Chinaman's Virus is being blown out of proportion by the Leftist Media. It is a clear effort to hurt President Trump's re-election. Anyone claiming otherwise is a gullible retard or a political hack. So is COVID a real issue or just a Chinaman's virus that's being blown out of proportion? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lickin_starfish 1,454 Posted April 1, 2020 It is a real issue that is being blown out of proportion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawkeye21 1,840 Posted April 1, 2020 Just now, lickin_starfish said: It is a real issue that is being blown out of proportion. I'm not sure we can accurately say it's being blown out of proportion. We won't know that until everything settles down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites