Pete Rose uses Astros saga to ask for reinstatement...

[posty 2,296]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28639320/pete-rose-uses-astros-saga-ask-reinstatement

Pete Rose asked commissioner Rob Manfred on Wednesday morning to remove his name from Major League Baseball's ineligible list, which would allow the all-time hits leader to be considered for induction into the Hall of Fame.

In a petition sent to the MLB commissioner's office and obtained by ESPN, Rose and his lawyers argue that Manfred has recently opted not to punish players guilty of major game-changing rules infractions and, as a result, should end Rose's 30½-year ban for gambling on baseball while he was manager of the Cincinnati Reds.

The lawyers say that Rose's lifetime ban is "vastly disproportionate" when compared with MLB's punishments of players who took performance-enhancing drugs and the players involved in the sign-stealing schemes by the 2017 Houston Astros.

"There cannot be one set of rules for Mr. Rose and another for everyone else," Rose's 20-page petition for reinstatement says. "No objective standard or categorization of the rules violations committed by Mr. Rose can distinguish his violations from those that have incurred substantially less severe penalties from Major League Baseball."

Rose also seeks a meeting with Manfred.

A Major League Baseball source told ESPN that the league has received Rose's petition and is reviewing it.

In 1989, Rose was permanently banned from baseball by then-commissioner A. Bartlett Giamatti after an investigation led by John Dowd, the special counsel to MLB. The Dowd report showed that Rose had illegally wagered with bookmakers on MLB games, including on the Reds, while managing Cincinnati. On Aug. 24, 1989, Rose signed an agreement accepting an indefinite suspension from baseball, though he did not admit to violating Section D of MLB's Rule 21, which prohibits players and others involved with the game from betting on baseball.

For 15 years, Rose repeatedly denied he had bet on baseball. But in 2004, Rose admitted in his book, "My Prison Without Bars," that he had wagered on baseball and the Reds in the 1980s.

Besides Manfred in 2015, MLB commissioner Bud Selig also rejected a previous Rose application for reinstatement.

Rose declined to comment for this story. But in an ESPN interview for the Backstory episode "Banned for Life*," which first aired last month, Rose said, "People should know that I'm very sorry that I made the mistake that I did. ... If you want to look back, which you can, I should have admitted to [Giamatti] the first time he called me in the office in January of '89, but I didn't."

Rose's petition Wednesday marks his second bid for reinstatement from Manfred. In December 2015, Manfred denied Rose's application to be removed from the ineligible list, concluding he had not "reconfigured" his life, in part because Rose continued to place bets, legally, on MLB games in Las Vegas, where he lives year-round. In 2017, the Hall of Fame rejected a separate request by Rose to be placed on its ballot.

Rose, 78, argues now that Manfred has used far less harsh punishments than permanent ineligibility on games-changing rules violations that have affected the integrity of the game.

In particular, Rose's lawyers highlight that Manfred did not punish any players on the Astros for systematically using electronic sign stealing on their way to winning the 2017 World Series. Last month, the commissioner suspended Astros manager AJ Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow for one year and fined the team $5 million. Hinch and Luhnow were then fired by the team.

"It has never been suggested, let alone established, that any of Mr. Rose's actions influenced the outcome of any game or the performance of any player," the petition reads. "Yet for the thirty-first year and counting, he continues to suffer a punishment vastly disproportionate to those who have done just that. Given the manner in which Major League Baseball has treated and continues to treat other egregious assaults on the integrity of the game, Mr. Rose's ongoing punishment is no longer justifiable as a proportional response to his transgressions."

Rose holds major league records for hits (4,256), games played (3,562), at-bats (14,053) and singles (3,215). His name has never appeared on a Baseball Hall of Fame ballot.

Rose's lawyers pointed out that Manfred reinstated a player, Jenrry Mejia, who had been permanently banned from baseball after testing positive a third time for anabolic steroids.

"It's in the best interests of baseball to not have as its legacy that Pete Rose is being treated grossly differently than every other player in its history, with the exception of 'Shoeless' Joe Jackson and the Chicago Black Sox," said Mark Rosenbaum, a Los Angeles-based civil rights lawyer who is representing Rose pro bono. "I don't think there has been an athlete in any sport in history who has fallen more steeply and more of a distance for a longer period of time than Pete Rose has."

Rosenbaum added that Rose's permanent ban should end because "proportionality is the cornerstone of baseball, like it is in life. ... This is a country of second chances, and I don't think Pete Rose poses a threat to the integrity of the game."

Baseball has changed in other ways, too -- mainly its embrace of legalized gambling. In May 2018, the Supreme Court granted all 50 states the right to accept sports wagers legally, allowing Major League Baseball, like all major sports, to profit in multiple ways from legalized gambling.

"Yes, I reconfigured my life," Rose said during the Backstory interview. "I do no more illegal gambling. That's what I got in trouble for -- illegal gambling. I live in Las Vegas. If I want to make a bet on the football game or a basketball game ... I'm 78 years old. That's my enjoyment. That's my pleasure. ... And I've reconfigured my life."

In the reinstatement petition, also filed Wednesday with the Hall of Fame, Rose argues that he is, in effect, banned "from Hall of Fame consideration for his lifetime and beyond."

In February 1991, the Hall of Fame passed a rule that any player on MLB's ineligible list would not appear on its ballot for Cooperstown; the rule was quickly dubbed "the Pete Rose rule." A Hall of Fame spokesperson told ESPN that a permanently banned player would not be eligible for Hall of Fame induction even after the player's death. This statement appears to close the door on any chance for induction of "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and seven banned teammates of the 1919 Chicago White Sox, who took cash to throw that year's World Series, won by the Cincinnati Reds.

That position also, presumably, closes the door on any chance Rose has to get into the Hall of Fame after his death.

In the early 1980s, Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were placed on MLB's ineligible list by commissioner Bowie Kuhn for accepting jobs as greeters at Atlantic City, New Jersey, casinos. But in 1985, commissioner Peter Ueberroth removed Mantle and Mays from the ineligible list, saying, "The world has changed."

Mantle and Mays are in the Hall of Fame.

----

What an ass...  If they do decide to reinstate him, they should wait until he has died...

[Cruzer 1,992]

Fock Bonds and the rest, Rose became the all time hits leader w/out cheating - let him in!

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

3 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Fock Bonds and the rest, Rose became the all time hits leader w/out cheating - let him in!

This is where I stand as well.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Go get em Pete.

[bostonlager 2,457]

I have a Pete Rose Starting Lineup action figure from circa 1986ish sitting right next to my computer. 

[tanatastic 2,061]

Rose needs to be in. 

[edjr 5,547]

2 hours ago, bostonlager said:

I have a Pete Rose Starting Lineup action figure from circa 1986ish sitting right next to my computer. 

fibgy's mom has one from 81 and it's worth 30k

[bostonlager 2,457]

5 minutes ago, edjr said:

fibgy's mom has one from 81 and it's worth 30k

Mine must be worth at least $10

Pete Rose

[lod001 1,235]

The HOF is a joke & a farce until Pete Rose is in.

[NorthernVike 2,080]

3 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Fock Bonds and the rest, Rose became the all time hits leader w/out cheating - let him in!

Absofuckinglutely 

[Super Cubs 132]

5 hours ago, bostonlager said:

I have a Pete Rose Starting Lineup action figure from circa 1986ish sitting right next to my computer. 

I have both Rose and Johnny Bench Starting Lineup figures somewhere at my parents house. That is if my mom has not sold them at a garage sale.

[Mike Honcho 4,010]

Quote

"It has never been suggested, let alone established, that any of Mr. Rose's actions influenced the outcome of any game or the performance of any player," the petition reads. "Yet for the thirty-first year and counting, he continues to suffer a punishment vastly disproportionate to those who have done just that. Given the manner in which Major League Baseball has treated and continues to treat other egregious assaults on the integrity of the game, Mr. Rose's ongoing punishment is no longer justifiable as a proportional response to his transgressions."

The whole friggin reason for not allowing players/managers to bet/gamble on baseball is because of the possibility that they would manipulate the game based on their wagers.    Not suggested....

Quote

"I don't think there has been an athlete in any sport in history who has fallen more steeply and more of a distance for a longer period of time than Pete Rose has."

Paging Lance Armstrong, Mr. Armstrong, please pick up the white courtesy phone.   

Quote

 

The lawyers say that Rose's lifetime ban is "vastly disproportionate" when compared with MLB's punishments of players who took performance-enhancing drugs and the players involved in the sign-stealing schemes by the 2017 Houston Astros.

 

The only thing I agree with, all those other players should have faced much much harsher punishments.   

[JustinCharge 2,397]

It sounds like some in the media are sympathetic to Pete Rose now.  Maybe he will get reinstated.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

If the dude wasnt the biggest piece of sh1t I have ever met in my life, he still wouldnt get my support

fock off Pete

throwing games is worse than cheating

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

11 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Fock Bonds and the rest, Rose became the all time hits leader w/out cheating - let him in!

Yes.

[joneo 529]

1 hour ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

If the dude wasnt the biggest piece of sh1t I have ever met in my life, he still wouldnt get my support

fock off Pete

throwing games is worse than cheating

 

He didn't throw games. He bet on his team to win. He didn't cheat like the PED users that are still being allowed to be voted into the HOF. THEY are the cheaters, not Pete. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

7 minutes ago, joneo said:

He didn't throw games. He bet on his team to win. He didn't cheat like the PED users that are still being allowed to be voted into the HOF. THEY are the cheaters, not Pete. 

It’s never been presented that he only bet on his team to win. And even if so we have gone over this ad naseum. On Day’s he didn’t place a bet what is that saying and how does it affect the way he managed the game?  Jose rijo has claimed how often he was overused

and again my criteria for the hall is stricter than anyone. None of the ped guys nor rose would ever get in. Neither would any Astro from that team including verlander which is sad

[joneo 529]

19 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

It’s never been presented that he only bet on his team to win. And even if so we have gone over this ad naseum. On Day’s he didn’t place a bet what is that saying and how does it affect the way he managed the game?  Jose rijo has claimed how often he was overused

and again my criteria for the hall is stricter than anyone. None of the ped guys nor rose would ever get in. Neither would any Astro from that team including verlander which is sad

It's never been proven he bet against his team. The fact that MLB has set a precedent for the PED users, aka cheaters, to be accepted into the HOF is the statndard whether YOU agree with that or not. (i agree with you, they shouldn't be allowed in tthe HOF)

[Dizkneelande 839]

I agree with Pete. Too bad baseball sucks.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

4 hours ago, joneo said:

It's never been proven he bet against his team. The fact that MLB has set a precedent for the PED users, aka cheaters, to be accepted into the HOF is the statndard whether YOU agree with that or not. (i agree with you, they shouldn't be allowed in tthe HOF)

I just said it’s irrelevant whether he bet on his team to win or lose. Him betting on or not betting on a given day gives information

Anyways him being banned in the day of internet gambling everywhere maybe prevents it 

[Brad GLuckman 518]

Why does he care so much? The HoF is the Grammy's for baseball. It's a waste of time and nobody should care.

 

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

On 2/6/2020 at 11:14 AM, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

If the dude wasnt the biggest piece of sh1t I have ever met in my life, he still wouldnt get my support

fock off Pete

throwing games is worse than cheating

 

I agree. Fock Pete rose. The MLB has sent a clear message... Bet on baseball, and you're dead to us.

I'd consider voting him in after he's dead. Maybe. 

[MDC 5,878]

What really killed Pete’s chances was lying about it for years and making excuses. If MLB ever inducts him It will be after he’s dead. Fock him.

[patweisers44 697]

Probably told this story here before but anyway...

My buddy is a huge Pete Rose fan.  Him and I did a Vegas trip a couple years ago (halfway between both of our 50th birthdays) and I surprised him with a meet and greet with Rose.  Pete was hanging out at a table, we were the only other people in the place, so he sat and chatted with us for a little while...super cool guy, at least in that time frame.

My favorite part of the story is that he was placing bets on horse races on his phone and watching them on his tablet the whole time.

[edjr 5,547]

3 hours ago, MDC said:

What really killed Pete’s chances was lying about it for years and making excuses. If MLB ever inducts him It will be after he’s dead. Fock him.

Just come clean Pete, we will let you in, pinky promise.

pete: okay I bet on baseball.

FOCK YOU CHEATER!

[MDC 5,878]

28 minutes ago, edjr said:

Just come clean Pete, we will let you in, pinky promise.

pete: okay I bet on baseball.

FOCK YOU CHEATER!

He agreed to a permanent ban in exchange for MLB not releasing a finding. Then he lied about it for years before finally admitting that yep - he gambled. 

Pete won’t get in until he’s dead, maybe not even then.

[edjr 5,547]

1 minute ago, MDC said:

He agreed to a permanent ban in exchange for MLB not releasing a finding. Then he lied about it for years before finally admitting that yep - he gambled. 

Pete won’t get in until he’s dead, maybe not even then.

He was told for years to fess up and he might be let back in. HE finally did when Manfred took over, when was that 2014/2015?  

[MDC 5,878]

Just now, edjr said:

He was told for years to fess up and he might be let back in. When Manfred took over, when was that 2014/2015?  

Rose fessed up when he agreed to permanent ineligibility. 

[edjr 5,547]

1 minute ago, MDC said:

Rose fessed up when he agreed to permanent ineligibility. 

no wonder you and RP sissy slap fight so well. 

[MDC 5,878]

1 minute ago, edjr said:

no wonder you and RP sissy slap fight so well. 

Does he own you too?

[Strike 3,950]

19 minutes ago, edjr said:

He was told for years to fess up and he might be let back in. HE finally did when Manfred took over, when was that 2014/2015?  

Assuming what you posted here is correct, when did the meaning of the word "might" change to "guaranteed"?

[edjr 5,547]

Just now, Strike said:

Assuming what you posted here is correct, when did the meaning of the word "might" change to "guaranteed"?

I was off by 10 years.  https://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132415&page=1

 

he was never told it was a guarantee, but you think he fessed up out of the kindness of his heart? maybe he couldn't handle the guilt

[Strike 3,950]

3 minutes ago, edjr said:

I was off by 10 years.  https://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132415&page=1

 

he was never told it was a guarantee, but you think he fessed up out of the kindness of his heart? maybe he couldn't handle the guilt

I'd guess that without fessing up he had ZERO chance of getting in the HOF and so he hoped to increase those chances by coming clean.  Personally, I really don't give a sh*t.  He was a great player that I enjoyed watching as a kid.  But he focked up.  He broke a rule that was clearly defined.  Then he lied about it.  Then he said he did it but not on his own team.  Then, eventually, on the hope that he could make the HOF he finally came clean.  Fock that.  No remorse.  Only did it for selfish reasons.  Fock him. 

[Djgb13 2,338]

On 2/5/2020 at 4:16 PM, edjr said:

fibgy's mom has one from 81 and it's worth 30k

Actually she doesn’t  

ALOT of Jeff Gordon stuff though. And Richard Petty 

[Djgb13 2,338]

And Pete should be in. No reason he shouldn’t be. A life time ban for betting on his OWN team to win? BS. He didn’t compromise the integrity of the game like people using steroids or stealing signs like the astros. Anyone who thinks he shouldn’t be in is a straight d1ckwad 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

2 hours ago, Djgb13 said:

And Pete should be in. No reason he shouldn’t be. A life time ban for betting on his OWN team to win? BS. He didn’t compromise the integrity of the game like people using steroids or stealing signs like the astros. Anyone who thinks he shouldn’t be in is a straight d1ckwad 

again betting on a team to win is betting on a team to lose

what happens when Pete doesn't place a bet the next day

when a guy manages differently based on whether he bet, thats a sure thing, maybe he pushes a guy back a day, doesn't bring in his closer at the same time, etc

also there is no proof whether he bet on his team to win only

 

[Djgb13 2,338]

7 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

again betting on a team to win is betting on a team to lose

what happens when Pete doesn't place a bet the next day

when a guy manages differently based on whether he bet, thats a sure thing, maybe he pushes a guy back a day, doesn't bring in his closer at the same time, etc

also there is no proof whether he bet on his team to win only

 

Well considering the guy is one of the greatest hitters the mlb has seen and there isn’t any proof of him purposely tanking it would lean more towards him betting on himself to win. Either way, the ban is overkill compared to ALL the different incidences that have happened With players and organizations since he was banned. And they have all just gotten slaps on the wrists compared to him. 

[MDC 5,878]

5 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

again betting on a team to win is betting on a team to lose

what happens when Pete doesn't place a bet the next day

when a guy manages differently based on whether he bet, thats a sure thing, maybe he pushes a guy back a day, doesn't bring in his closer at the same time, etc

also there is no proof whether he bet on his team to win only

 

This. Also, we’re taking Rose’s word on it? He denied betting on the game as a player for 25 years. Then he got caught better as a player.  

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,566]

26 minutes ago, Djgb13 said:

Well considering the guy is one of the greatest hitters the mlb has seen and there isn’t any proof of him purposely tanking it would lean more towards him betting on himself to win. Either way, the ban is overkill compared to ALL the different incidences that have happened With players and organizations since he was banned. And they have all just gotten slaps on the wrists compared to him. 

dude seriously

Monday--- hey bookie, this is Pete, I want to bet on the Reds today

Tuesday--- hey bookie, this is Pete, I want to bet on the Reds today

Wednesday---Bookie, Pete didnt bet on the Reds today, lets load up on the other team

Thursday---hey bookie, this is Pete, I want to bet on the Reds today

Friday---Bookie, Pete Reds lost everytime you bet, you are in 300k this week, lets square up....Pete, I am not going to bet on the Reds today, Reds up 3-2 in the 9th, Pete doesn't use closer, after games states closer was feeling a little tight

 

[Djgb13 2,338]

12 minutes ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

dude seriously

Monday--- hey bookie, this is Pete, I want to bet on the Reds today

Tuesday--- hey bookie, this is Pete, I want to bet on the Reds today

Wednesday---Bookie, Pete didnt bet on the Reds today, lets load up on the other team

Thursday---hey bookie, this is Pete, I want to bet on the Reds today

Friday---Bookie, Pete Reds lost everytime you bet, you are in 300k this week, lets square up....Pete, I am not going to bet on the Reds today, Reds up 3-2 in the 9th, Pete doesn't use closer, after games states closer was feeling a little tight

 

Obviously we have different opinions. You won’t convince me and I’m not gonna convince you. But do you REALLY believe all the illegal stuff players, coaches, and organizations have done in recent years don’t deserve a ban but he does? Cause I don’t and ALOT of people don’t either. Punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Sorry not sorry