Baseball 100: No. 50 Nolan Ryan

[Cruzer 1,992]

Bond's postseason avg. is .245 and doesn't have a ring.

He must suck too.

[edjr 5,547]

1 hour ago, Cruzer said:

Bond's postseason avg. is .245 and doesn't have a ring.

He must suck too.

in 27 season, Ryan pitched 58 innings.

He did not make his teams better, ever.  

Jesus even in 1986, he wasn't the best pitcher on the staff. Mike Scott was.

 

 

 

[Cruzer 1,992]

4 minutes ago, edjr said:

in 27 season, Ryan pitched 58 innings.

He pitched 2.15 innings per year......and still managed to have 324 wins, 5714 K's and 7 no-no's?

Damn, now that's impressive.

 

[edjr 5,547]

3 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

He pitched 2.15 innings per year......and still managed to have 324 wins, 5714 K's and 7 no-no's?

Damn, now that's impressive.

 

I quoted your postseason reply 

Barroid hit .471 in the World Series with 4 dongs, what did Ryan do in the WS?

[Mike Honcho 4,010]

3 minutes ago, edjr said:

I quoted your postseason reply 

Barroid hit .471 in the World Series with 4 dongs, what did Ryan do in the WS?

Never gave up a run and has one more championship than Bonds.   

[Cruzer 1,992]

2 minutes ago, edjr said:

I quoted your postseason reply 

Barroid hit .471 in the World Series with 4 dongs, what did Ryan do in the WS?

Nowhere in this thread have I mentioned the number 58.

Put down the pipe dood.

[edjr 5,547]

Just now, Cruzer said:

Nowhere in this thread have I mentioned the number 58.

Put down the pipe dood.

You didn't say postseason?

 

2 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Bond's postseason avg. is .245 and doesn't have a ring.

He must suck too.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Just now, edjr said:

You didn't say postseason?

 

Ah, gotcha. Hold on - reloading my pipe.

[edjr 5,547]

Just now, Cruzer said:

Ah, gotcha. Hold on - reloading my pipe.

It made me very uncomfortable arguing with you. Was kinda weird.

[Mike Honcho 4,010]

1 minute ago, edjr said:

It made me very uncomfortable arguing with you. Was kinda weird.

The Nolan Ryan of the Geek Club won this thread!!!!   

[edjr 5,547]

1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

The Nolan Ryan of the Geek Club won this thread!!!!   

  Nice.  so true

[tanatastic 2,061]

So who is his NFL equivalent then? Trying to get some perspective. Moon? Marino? I have a lengthy rant I like to go on about how Marino is trash and overrated yet still inexplicably gets put above guys like Brees in all time lists.

[Mike Honcho 4,010]

2 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

So who is his NFL equivalent then? Trying to get some perspective. Moon? Marino? I have a lengthy rant I like to go on about how Marino is trash and overrated yet still inexplicably gets put above guys like Brees in all time lists.

Piss everyone off and go with Emmitt.  

[vuduchile 1,940]

59 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Never gave up a run and has one more championship than Bonds.   

The end

[tanatastic 2,061]

1 hour ago, Mike Honcho said:

Never gave up a run and has one more championship than Bonds.   

Owned, pwned and deboned. Brutal domination.

[cbfalcon 824]

10 hours ago, vuduchile said:

Some of you guys have no concept of how hard it is to throw a no hitter in MLB, much less 7.  Now factor in that he threw his last one at age 44.  
 

He was the first player to clock a 100 mph fastball and he kept throwing them well into his 40’s as a STARTER.  
 

He wasn’t a set up guy or a closer who pitches a couple innings per week   

It’s impossible to overrate him.   

Yes, he threw fast, and that’s a great ability for a pitcher to have. I’m not knocking The Ryan Express in general. I‘d compare him favorably to a WR with great speed like Darrius Heyward-Bey, or to a NBA player with a great vertical like Jason Richardson. He used his cool ability well. A .500 pitcher that stayed healthy enough to play for a long long time. Definitely deserved to make some all star teams. 

[vuduchile 1,940]

2 hours ago, cbfalcon said:

Yes, he threw fast, and that’s a great ability for a pitcher to have. I’m not knocking The Ryan Express in general. I‘d compare him favorably to a WR with great speed like Darrius Heyward-Bey, or to a NBA player with a great vertical like Jason Richardson. He used his cool ability well. A .500 pitcher that stayed healthy enough to play for a long long time. Definitely deserved to make some all star teams. 

DHB? 
Ok.   You’re dismissed. 

[Bert 1,087]

On 2/6/2020 at 7:32 PM, Mike Honcho said:

Just find his numbers mind-blowing, had a season when he pitched 250 innings and  gave up more walks than hits.   Lead the league in K's at the age of 43.  Pitched to the age of 46 and still has the lowest H/9IP ever.   Pretty sure Crash Davis was talking about Nolan when he said... “You got a gift. When you were a baby, the gods reached down and turned your right arm into a thunderbolt. 

Except he owned 3 banks, a hugely profitable ranch and substantial real estate holdings.  
 

Made a lot more money out side Of baseball.  

[tanatastic 2,061]

I’m just having a tough time wrapping my head around knocking the guy who is top everything in everything by an uncatchable margin. Yes I get longevity, but that adds to a legacy, it doesn’t detract. Rice put up stats at an older age that others weren’t capable of doing, that’s how he was able to push the records past reachable. Ryan looks to me like a guy who was really good, then stayed decent when he should have fallen off the map, then kept that up for a decade past his expiration date. That’s pretty impressive to me, plus he has a ring fwiw. 

[edjr 5,547]

Quote

 

Nolan Ryan is one of the most overrated players in baseball history, if not the most overrated.

First off, despite all of his success, Nolan Ryan never won a Cy Young Award. The closest he ever came to winning one was as a member of the then-California Angels in 1973, when he finished with a 21-16 record, 2.87 ERA and a record 383 strikeouts. He ultimately lost the award to Jim Palmer.

Second, let’s analyze his record. The wins are certainly there, but the losses seem a little inflated considering how dominant Ryan was in his prime. The 324-292 record gives us a winning percentage of .526, which, while respectable, is still mediocre. It’s not even in the top 100.

Finally, let’s tie the stats together with Ryan’s career strikeout total of 5,714. Yes, Ryan was a dominant strikeout pitcher throughout most of his career, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that I still think he’s overrated. Why? Because the man pitched for 27 seasons!

Let’s be honest: If Nolan Ryan were pitching today, he would not be as dominant. He was a fireballer, and now everybody in baseball is trying to be one. Combine that factor with today’s pitching coaches monitoring pitch counts, the steroid era and hitters being better prepared for hard fastballs, and he would be just another face in the crowd.

The same can be said about his seven career no-hitters. If I was a pitcher in that era and throwing 98 mph, I could probably throw seven no-hitters. Point being this: I don’t care if Ryan was on a lot of bad teams in his career. His stuff was good enough that he should have wiped the floor with any opposing hitter that stepped up to face him.

On top of that, his career stats are ridiculously inflated. Nobody pitches for 27 seasons anymore, and if they did, they would definitely not be as dominant as Ryan was.

 

[cbfalcon 824]

Out of 72 starters in the HOF, Ryan had the 71st best winning %. Only some spare named Eddie Rixy from 1912 was less of a winner. But it’s unclear if he had a cool nickname for throwing fastballs. 

[cbfalcon 824]

17 hours ago, tanatastic said:

So who is his NFL equivalent then? Trying to get some perspective. Moon? Marino? I have a lengthy rant I like to go on about how Marino is trash and overrated yet still inexplicably gets put above guys like Brees in all time lists.

No, there were years in which many would have argued Marino was the best QB in the game. There was never any point in which anyone thought Ryan was part of that conversation.

Nolan Ryan and Vinny Testeverde each lasted long enough to make all time leader boards while winning exactly 52% of their games. Comparable careers, but I’d give Nolan the advantage due to the highlight reel night that would occur every 4th season. 

[tanatastic 2,061]

I think I’m getting more of a complete picture now, thanks for the info guys. 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Anyone who uses a pitchers winning percentage as an argument for or against them has forfeited their credibility. One of the most useless stats used to gauge how good a player is in any sport. 

[vuduchile 1,940]

5 hours ago, cbfalcon said:

No, there were years in which many would have argued Marino was the best QB in the game. There was never any point in which anyone thought Ryan was part of that conversation.

Nolan Ryan and Vinny Testeverde each lasted long enough to make all time leader boards while winning exactly 52% of their games. Comparable careers, but I’d give Nolan the advantage due to the highlight reel night that would occur every 4th season. 

 

2 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Anyone who uses a pitchers winning percentage as an argument for or against them has forfeited their credibility. One of the most useless stats used to gauge how good a player is in any sport. 

Yep.  Worst stat nerdery I’ve ever seen.   
 

It’s been firmly established that Nolan rarely had a decent team to support his efforts.  
 

His career era shows that it wasn’t his pitching that lost all those games.  
 

I don’t know how anyone with half a brain and any knowledge of baseball can’t see this.  

[tanatastic 2,061]

2 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Anyone who uses a pitchers winning percentage as an argument for or against them has forfeited their credibility. One of the most useless stats used to gauge how good a player is in any sport. 

I agree, there are certain stats across the big 3 sports I use to value players differently like wins and titles. World Series rings are nice but I don’t hold it against players If they didn’t win one. In the NFL I strictly forbid QBs from sitting at the table unless they have at least 1 SB and to sit at the REAL big boys table it’s 2+. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,593]

Tough crowd. One thing for sure is it’s a lot easier to say someone sucked than to say they were great. Nolan Ryan was great. Your eyeballs should have told you that. Stat nerds worship a guy like Greg Maddux who did everything he could to protect his stats.  But guys like Ryan and Morris who took the late innings so their team had a better shot to win, this hurting their stats, are looked down on. I guess being a Yankee fan makes you look at everything with winning in mind, not awards and whip and all the rest.