XFL....oh my

[JagFan 97]

Not good football.  The original version was much better.  He-Hate-Me, and Tommy Gun were at least entertaining.

[nobody 2,037]

Too bad it doesn't stop ESPN and Fox talking heads from telling us how great it is constantly.

[Ironmen 14]

Yeah...the Tampa Bay Vipers couldn't catch the Corona Virus after the first quarter yesterday!

[Ray_T 588]

6 hours ago, nobody said:

Too bad it doesn't stop ESPN and Fox talking heads from telling us how great it is constantly.

its likely part of the TV deal.  They probably banned from criticizing certain things about the on field product or the league management.

Also, There is not much else in terms of sport that they can sell you at this time of year.   

Baseball and Football get by  far the best ratings in the US.   Basketball does ok but its not the same as baseball or Nfl football.   Hockey is good, but lots of americans dont follow it. 

an additional football league (if it succeeds) would be good for ESPN.  So I am sure they have an interest in trying to make this work too.

 

 

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

I think it's pretty good.  It's much better than college football.

[AxeElf 787]

49 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think it's pretty good.  It's much better than college football.

???

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

???

I find college football boring.

[weepaws 2,456]

If the xfl and college football is so bad and boring, why continue to feed it. 

Simply stop watching. 

I did it’s been a wonderful last ten years.  

Thanks. 

[AxeElf 787]

7 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I find college football boring.

Seems like kind of an arbitrary distinction when it's basically the same game the pros play.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

10 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Seems like kind of an arbitrary distinction when it's basically the same game the pros play.

So is high school football, but I don't see 20 of those games televised every week nationally.

[AxeElf 787]

5 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So is high school football, but I don't see 20 of those games televised every week nationally.

Again, you've drawn kind of an arbitrary line--you don't watch college football because high school football sucks?  Then why watch pro football, if college football sucks?

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

12 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Again, you've drawn kind of an arbitrary line--you don't watch college football because high school football sucks?  Then why watch pro football, if college football sucks?

#1.  I never said it sucked, I said it was boring.

#2.  You said that college and pro were the same game, so what's the difference.  I then used the same argument with incorporating H.S.

My point was, when you watch 2 teams, say the #17 and #23 ranked teams, you'll see like 70 guys get a good amount of playing time.  Of the 70, about 65 will NEVER even sniff an NFL roster INVITE let alone a roster spot.  With the XFL, every one of those players spent time on an NFL roster.  Maybe it was 1 month, maybe it was 1 year... it might have been 4 years, the point is, the XFL is players who are better than college but worse than the NFL.

[JagFan 97]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

#1.  I never said it sucked, I said it was boring.

#2.  You said that college and pro were the same game, so what's the difference.  I then used the same argument with incorporating H.S.

My point was, when you watch 2 teams, say the #17 and #23 ranked teams, you'll see like 70 guys get a good amount of playing time.  Of the 70, about 65 will NEVER even sniff an NFL roster INVITE let alone a roster spot.  With the XFL, every one of those players spent time on an NFL roster.  Maybe it was 1 month, maybe it was 1 year... it might have been 4 years, the point is, the XFL is players who are better than college but worse than the NFL.

I agree with this to a certain extent, but sometimes making it in the NFL comes down to luck of being in the right place at the right time.  Take Tom Brady for example.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

1 hour ago, JagFan said:

I agree with this to a certain extent, but sometimes making it in the NFL comes down to luck of being in the right place at the right time.  Take Tom Brady for example.

Absolutely.  But, when looking at college games outside of the top 10... maybe top 15, you're looking at 90% or more of the players who will never sniff an NFL locker room.  While I may have exaggerated the XFL players, I think it's safe to say that at least 65% of those guys had or have a legit shot to make an NFL roster in the past or future.  A difference of 65% to 10% is rather substantial.

[JagFan 97]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Absolutely.  But, when looking at college games outside of the top 10... maybe top 15, you're looking at 90% or more of the players who will never sniff an NFL locker room.  While I may have exaggerated the XFL players, I think it's safe to say that at least 65% of those guys had or have a legit shot to make an NFL roster in the past or future.  A difference of 65% to 10% is rather substantial.

Agree totally.

[jrokh 568]

If there is ever an XFL game half as exciting as this past season's Alabama-Auburn game, let me know, maybe I'll watch. The little I have seen so far has been terrible QB play, thus bad football...

[weepaws 2,456]

8 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Again, you've drawn kind of an arbitrary line--you don't watch college football because high school football sucks?  Then why watch pro football, if college football sucks?

Exactly why I don’t watch.  Good point.  

[weepaws 2,456]

4 hours ago, jrokh said:

If there is ever an XFL game half as exciting as this past season's Alabama-Auburn game, let me know, maybe I'll watch. The little I have seen so far has been terrible QB play, thus bad football...

Have you seen the nfl.  

Not much difference. 

[AxeElf 787]

On 2/18/2020 at 1:42 PM, TBayXXXVII said:

#1.  I never said it sucked, I said it was boring.

#2.  You said that college and pro were the same game, so what's the difference.  I then used the same argument with incorporating H.S.

My point was, when you watch 2 teams, say the #17 and #23 ranked teams, you'll see like 70 guys get a good amount of playing time.  Of the 70, about 65 will NEVER even sniff an NFL roster INVITE let alone a roster spot.  With the XFL, every one of those players spent time on an NFL roster.  Maybe it was 1 month, maybe it was 1 year... it might have been 4 years, the point is, the XFL is players who are better than college but worse than the NFL.

#1.  Well, there are plenty of college games that are just as exciting as pro games.

#2.  Yes, in both cases I said you were drawing an arbitrary distinction.

It seems that your prejudice comes down to only wanting to watch the best of the best players, which is a different matter.  Your experience is apparently based on the quality of the players, mine is based on the quality of the games; I don't care if every player isn't among the top 100 at his position.

[Ray_T 588]

22 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Absolutely.  But, when looking at college games outside of the top 10... maybe top 15, you're looking at 90% or more of the players who will never sniff an NFL locker room.  While I may have exaggerated the XFL players, I think it's safe to say that at least 65% of those guys had or have a legit shot to make an NFL roster in the past or future.  A difference of 65% to 10% is rather substantial.

I think most of those had their shot already.  Not many will make their way back to the NFL.

it is also worth noting that the quality of play is largely determined by the amount of money the players are paid.

Currently the Canadian Football League pays better than the XFL.    The XFL may have an advantage in that the players have better exposure to NFL scouts who may live in some of these cities and may find it convenient to watch the games, but I'd argue that most XFL players are unlikely to get an NFL tryout once they become free Agents.

in any given year there are about 15 CFL players who successfully obtain NFL tryouts and half of those  actually get a contract. 

I'd suggest in the XFL that number would be the same or smaller.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

54 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

#1.  Well, there are plenty of college games that are just as exciting as pro games.

#2.  Yes, in both cases I said you were drawing an arbitrary distinction.

It seems that your prejudice comes down to only wanting to watch the best of the best players, which is a different matter.  Your experience is apparently based on the quality of the players, mine is based on the quality of the games; I don't care if every player isn't among the top 100 at his position.

#1.  No there aren't.  There's like 5 to 7... mmaaaaybe 10, a year in college and they happen in the last week or 2 of the season and the championship game.

#2.  Sorry, yes, talent level.

I'm not quite sure how to see your stance on this.  You seem to think that the quality of play at the college level is better than the quality of play with better players in the XFL?  I'm not seeing that.

[jrokh 568]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

#1.  No there aren't.  There's like 5 to 7... mmaaaaybe 10, a year in college and they happen in the last week or 2 of the season and the championship game.

#2.  Sorry, yes, talent level.

I'm not quite sure how to see your stance on this.  You seem to think that the quality of play at the college level is better than the quality of play with better players in the XFL?  I'm not seeing that.

The talent level in the SEC and possibly the Big Ten is without a doubt better. The difference is the XFL guys are grown men, not teenagers. I watch a lot of College Football and there is no comparison in quality of product. Even the CFL is more watchable than the XFL...

[Ray_T 588]

37 minutes ago, jrokh said:

The talent level in the SEC and possibly the Big Ten is without a doubt better. The difference is the XFL guys are grown men, not teenagers. I watch a lot of College Football and there is no comparison in quality of product. Even the CFL is more watchable than the XFL...

actually, the CFL is a substantially better product than the XFL so far.

but then given what I said about salaries, I would expect this.   it is also a situation where the lack of a substantial preseason may be hurting the onfield product.   

I found that the AFL was the same.  first couple weeks were pretty poor quality football.  the Gameplay did improve as the season wore on, but by that time the fans stopped going to the games.

[AxeElf 787]

6 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

#1.  No there aren't.  There's like 5 to 7... mmaaaaybe 10, a year in college and they happen in the last week or 2 of the season and the championship game.

#2.  Sorry, yes, talent level.

I'm not quite sure how to see your stance on this.  You seem to think that the quality of play at the college level is better than the quality of play with better players in the XFL?  I'm not seeing that.

#1.  Thanks to a DVR and a robust sports package on cable, I watch every play of 7-10 college games per week--and I only watch the interesting ones; so...  Yes there are.

My stance is that the quality of GAMES in college football isn't much different than pro games, when you figure in traditions, rivalries, potentially extreme upsets, and in many cases, the games of chess that college coaches have to play to minimize their weaknesses and maximize their strengths.  It's a lot easier to root for your alma mater than it is to root for some randomly-chosen team in the XFL, and it's not like there will be much of a chance for those loyalties and rivalries to grow, with an over/under of about 8 weeks for the XFL's survival.

The WFL, the USFL, the WLAF, the original XFL, whatever that was last spring, the new XFL...  when will they learn?

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

8 hours ago, AxeElf said:

#1.  Thanks to a DVR and a robust sports package on cable, I watch every play of 7-10 college games per week--and I only watch the interesting ones; so...  Yes there are.

My stance is that the quality of GAMES in college football isn't much different than pro games, when you figure in traditions, rivalries, potentially extreme upsets, and in many cases, the games of chess that college coaches have to play to minimize their weaknesses and maximize their strengths.  It's a lot easier to root for your alma mater than it is to root for some randomly-chosen team in the XFL, and it's not like there will be much of a chance for those loyalties and rivalries to grow, with an over/under of about 8 weeks for the XFL's survival.

The WFL, the USFL, the WLAF, the original XFL, whatever that was last spring, the new XFL...  when will they learn?

I don't find that kind of fluff to be all that interesting.  I watch the games for the game itself.  The talent level in college is "bleh".  I'm not interested.

They actually did learn.  The WFL, USFL, and original XFL tried to compete against the NFL.  The WLAF worked.  That league lasted a long time and it accomplished a lot of it's goal... it was just a bit too ahead of it's time.  Because of the WLAF, Europe loves the NFL.  It's why there's even talk about putting an NFL team(s) over there.  The new XFL is in the same vein.  It's not competing against the NFL, it's supplementing it.

I do find it interesting that some of the arguments I'm hearing are that these guys couldn't cut it in the NFL so what's the point in watching.  I'm hearing about how good the SEC and Big 10 are... yet, there are currently 122 players in the XFL that played in the SEC or Big 10... the school's most represented with 10, are LSU and Auburn.  So interestingly enough, the 2 conferences that supposedly have the best players... also have the most busts.

[jrokh 568]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I don't find that kind of fluff to be all that interesting.  I watch the games for the game itself.  The talent level in college is "bleh".  I'm not interested.

They actually did learn.  The WFL, USFL, and original XFL tried to compete against the NFL.  The WLAF worked.  That league lasted a long time and it accomplished a lot of it's goal... it was just a bit too ahead of it's time.  Because of the WLAF, Europe loves the NFL.  It's why there's even talk about putting an NFL team(s) over there.  The new XFL is in the same vein.  It's not competing against the NFL, it's supplementing it.

I do find it interesting that some of the arguments I'm hearing are that these guys couldn't cut it in the NFL so what's the point in watching.  I'm hearing about how good the SEC and Big 10 are... yet, there are currently 122 players in the XFL that played in the SEC or Big 10... the school's most represented with 10, are LSU and Auburn.  So interestingly enough, the 2 conferences that supposedly have the best players... also have the most busts.

The SEC and Big Ten are projected to produce over half of the first round picks in the upcoming NFL draft. How many former first round picks are currently rostered in the XFL? Zero?

[AxeElf 787]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The WLAF worked.

Depending on your definition of "worked," I guess.  It lasted two seasons with its original 10 teams, then took a couple of years off, then came back with all of SIX whole teams for a couple more years.  Then it turned into "NFL Europe" for a while after that.  The WLAF was pretty explicitly an NFL farm league, so I'm surprised you would endorse a league of clearly lesser talent like the WLAF when you won't watch college football.

Oh well, to each his own... and... your loss.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

49 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Depending on your definition of "worked," I guess.  It lasted two seasons with its original 10 teams, then took a couple of years off, then came back with all of SIX whole teams for a couple more years.  Then it turned into "NFL Europe" for a while after that.  The WLAF was pretty explicitly an NFL farm league, so I'm surprised you would endorse a league of clearly lesser talent like the WLAF when you won't watch college football.

Oh well, to each his own... and... your loss.

College football is flooded with players who have a 0% chance of being near an NFL locker room.  Every XFL and WLAF player at least did.  Some in the XFL still have a shot to get back to NFL.  I never said being a farm league was bad.  I just think that the college game, (as I said before - aside from maybe 10 to 15 teams), is essentially the XFL of high school football.  It's high school kids who are good enough for college football, so they go to schools like UConn or Akron or some school like that.  It's boring.  Most of the games on TV on Saturday's are games like Memphis vs Central Florida.  With your occasional Ohio State vs Wisconsin thrown in.  I'll watch the 10 or so games that are worth watching and click the remote when it's Central Michigan vs Troy State.

 

No loss on my part, I assure you.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

3 hours ago, jrokh said:

The SEC and Big Ten are projected to produce over half of the first round picks in the upcoming NFL draft. How many former first round picks are currently rostered in the XFL? Zero?

First round picks usually get a ton of slack because of the investment.  Former first round picks who just totally crap the bed are usually so bad that they wouldn't even deserve an XFL roster spot.

 

Over 50% of the XFL are SEC and Big 10 players.  That's a lot of players from those great conferences that were apparently really good in college - that deliver quality play, but not good enough for the NFL.

[jrokh 568]

Exactly, the cast offs of those Conferences are in the XFL, While the good players are first round picks, aka the premium talent that become NFL stars. As I said the talent level is much better in Power 5 College Football. It's not even close really. Not sure why you want to keep pushing a boulder uphill...

[weepaws 2,456]

4 hours ago, jrokh said:

The SEC and Big Ten are projected to produce over half of the first round picks in the upcoming NFL draft. How many former first round picks are currently rostered in the XFL? Zero?

Over half of the first round we’ll be coming from teams in two conferences, wow college football is losing its competitiveness.  

Dont see the entertainment value. 

[weepaws 2,456]

Watching every play of 7-10 college football games per week just seems like a waste of a great time.  

Thanks. 

Ps I do agree that I should be deleted. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

2 hours ago, jrokh said:

Exactly, the cast offs of those Conferences are in the XFL, While the good players are first round picks, aka the premium talent that become NFL stars. As I said the talent level is much better in Power 5 College Football. It's not even close really. Not sure why you want to keep pushing a boulder uphill...

The "Power 5" is a joke.  It's clearly the "Power 2"... which is my point.  There's 10 to 15 good programs a year and virtually every one of them comes from the Big 10 or the SEC.... meaning, every game that features 2 schools who are not in those 2 conference... or even the top 5 from each of those 2 conferences, has mediocre talent and hence, a boring game.  Also, I never said the XFL was some great thing.  I just said that it was pretty good and not boring... like college.

[jrokh 568]

25 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The "Power 5" is a joke.  It's clearly the "Power 2"... which is my point.  There's 10 to 15 good programs a year and virtually every one of them comes from the Big 10 or the SEC.... meaning, every game that features 2 schools who are not in those 2 conference... or even the top 5 from each of those 2 conferences, has mediocre talent and hence, a boring game.  Also, I never said the XFL was some great thing.  I just said that it was pretty good and not boring... like college.

I'm not really arguing with you about which is more exciting. You may have been doing that with another poster, but not me. What you like and find more enjoyable is a personal choice and entirely subjective. If you like watching washed up QB's throw 5 yard hook routes at their receivers feet or five yards wide of the mark, then bully for you. What I was pushing back on was your contention that the XFL has more talented players than the College game. To that extent, I have objectively proven your case to be weaker than the arms of the QB's that populate the XFL... 

[Ray_T 588]

5 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

First round picks usually get a ton of slack because of the investment.  Former first round picks who just totally crap the bed are usually so bad that they wouldn't even deserve an XFL roster spot.

 

Over 50% of the XFL are SEC and Big 10 players.  That's a lot of players from those great conferences that were apparently really good in college - that deliver quality play, but not good enough for the NFL.

In this situation, I'd suggest most times its a case of not good enough.   I have found that usually its more like an 23 year old got a boatload of money and partied their way out of the NFL or ate their way out of the NFL or some combination of the two.  

In some cases, they just couldnt handle the stresses of being an NFL player.

but most of the first rounders who crap out either have off field issues of some sort.   It is rarely a lack of talent

[AxeElf 787]

7 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'll watch the 10 or so games that are worth watching and click the remote when it's Central Michigan vs Troy State.

No loss on my part, I assure you.

You just described your loss--you don't get to see the Central Michigan vs. Troy (there is no Troy State any more) game.

4 hours ago, jrokh said:

What you like and find more enjoyable is a personal choice and entirely subjective.

Exactly.  There's no right or wrong here.  I just find it unusual for someone to be such an avid fan of professional football that they frequent a fantasy football message board--and yet not care about college football.

I just enjoy the game of football, and I'll watch Georgia State play UTEP all day long.

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

12 hours ago, AxeElf said:

You just described your loss--you don't get to see the Central Michigan vs. Troy (there is no Troy State any more) game.

Seriously?  My loss is calling them "Troy State" instead of "Troy"?  Did the name change all of a sudden make them a better program?

[TBayXXXVII 2,108]

17 hours ago, jrokh said:

You may have been doing that with another poster, but not me. What you like and find more enjoyable is a personal choice and entirely subjective. 

Yes, that was my whole point in the first place with him.  I never said any level sucked, just that I didn't find the college game all that appealing.

[Ray_T 588]

13 hours ago, AxeElf said:

You just described your loss--you don't get to see the Central Michigan vs. Troy (there is no Troy State any more) game.

Exactly.  There's no right or wrong here.  I just find it unusual for someone to be such an avid fan of professional football that they frequent a fantasy football message board--and yet not care about college football.

I just enjoy the game of football, and I'll watch Georgia State play UTEP all day long.

I dont watch a lot of College football either.   But then again, the skill level is lower on average and  there is not a ton of parity in college football.

Nobody likes to watch a game that ends 58-3 regardless of who wins.    That's what you get in college football a fair bit of the time.

Sure, there is the occasional matchup that is worth watching if it looks evenly matched.   but most of those type of games happen in the Bowl Championship series and such.

Even then.... sometimes they are still blowouts.

[weepaws 2,456]

Why would anyone watch Georgia State play Utep All Day Long.  

When im sure there would be better games to watch.  

Mmmm.  

Thanks.