Starting to think no NFL team is interested in TB12

[TBayXXXVII 2,116]

15 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I dont agree.  Winston has never had trouble moving the ball.  He can make all the throws and sometimes makes spectacular ones.  He is willing to chuck it downfield with no fear.  His problem is his wreckless nature and immaturity.

Winston threw it 626 times last season.

Brady should not be throwing it that many times and he cannot and will not force it downfield.  

I dont understand the fit.  Brady should be on a team that wants to run the ball behind a vet QB who knows what he is doing and can check in and out of things.

It isnt oh winston can throw for 5k then Brady can.  No not what so ever.  Winston has always gobbled up yardage.  That was never a problem.

Over the last 8 seasons, prior to 2019, Brady averaged just over 600 pass attempts per 16 game season while completing 64.5% of those passes, there's no reason why he would not be able to throw 600 times again.  To say he can't is pretty ignorant.  Also, the reason why Winston has to throw the ball 625+ times is because he's turning the ball over all the time, so Brady won't have to throw that many times... but he could if needed.

A big misconception is that Tampa airs the ball out all the time.  That's not the case.  Tampa does try passes that are deep... as in really deep, because Winston can throw that far.  The problem is, he can't complete them because he's not accurate.  Brady can easily throw the ball 30 and 40 yards down field... and complete them.  THAT, is significantly more effective than throwing the ball 50 yards down field and NOT completing them.  Also, another reason why Winston throws the ball that far is because he holds the ball too long.  Brady won't do that.  He'll get the ball out.

People don't really see where a lot of stats are coming from, they just see them.  They see Evans and Godwin putting up 14, 15, or 16+ yards per reception... here's the thing, there's virtually never any YAC.  Winston puts the ball on their bodies and they're generally tackled right away, he never leads them.  Brady will get the ball out sooner and hit them in stride.  Their YAC is likely to go up without the ball having to travel as far.  Efficiency is not a problem.  Getting the ball to the play makers is not a bad thing.  If a Mike Evans play (with Winston), goes for 17 yards where the ball traveled 16 of them... is that worse than a pass going to Evan from Brady where the ball traveled 7 yards but Evans ran for 10 more?  I don't think so.  In fact, it's better that the ball doesn't travel as far.  The longer the ball is in the play makers hands, the potential for more yards is more likely.

The fit is fine because "the system" isn't static.  The QB controls when and where the ball gets thrown.  Brady will not sit and hold the ball forever like Winston.  The same plays can be called, the difference is that, like I just mentioned, instead of the ball traveling 16 yards and the net result is 17 yards, the ball will travel... 10 yards and the play will still go for 17 yards.  Proof?  Mike Evans career yrds/rec = 15.7 (the last 2 over 17)... Gronkowski... 15.1 (for his career).  That's not a big difference.  To note, Gronk did have a 16+ season and a season over 23 (though in only 6 games).  Prior to last season, Brady averaged 4600 passing yards (16-game average), since 2015 (Winston's rookie season), Winston averaged 4400.  Why are people pretending that Brady can't throw for a lot of yards while Winston threw for a ton.

Winston threw for 5000 yards because he's a bad QB, not because he's got a great arm.  There's no need for Brady to throw for 5000 yards, but he can definitely throw for 4500 (or more), because he has great weapons.

[TBayXXXVII 2,116]

1 hour ago, The Elevator Killer said:

Good point. They won't be playing from behind because of the first play being a pick 6 so they won't have to be throwing as much. Now we need to address Tackle and a short yardage RB and some other areas. 

No HAVING to and not being ABLE to, are 2 entirely different things.  Most of the comments from people, they're basing the production on Brady not being ABLE.  I think they're nuts.

[The Elevator Killer 497]

5 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No HAVING to and not being ABLE to, are 2 entirely different things.  Most of the comments from people, they're basing the production on Brady not being ABLE.  I think they're nuts.

It's going to be fun. We do need more of a running threat to open it up for TB12. 

[patweisers44 697]

I don't see the fit either.  A younger, seemingly more-mobile Winston was sacked 47 times behind that o-line last year.  Brady also made hay throwing to slot guys and RBs which aren't strong suits in TB either.

I didn't agree with him going to SF or any of the other destinations mentioned. I always thought he would be in NE or nowhere else. But a team like SF that might have been the right QB away this year would be the only argument that remotely made sense to me.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,116]

8 minutes ago, The Elevator Killer said:

It's going to be fun. We do need more of a running threat to open it up for TB12. 

I agree.  The RB really needs to be upgraded.

[The Elevator Killer 497]

2 minutes ago, patweisers44 said:

I don't see the fit either.  A younger, seemingly more-mobile Winston was sacked 47 times behind that o-line last year.  Brady also made hay throwing to slot guys and RBs which aren't strong suits in TB either.

I didn't agree with him going to SF or any of the other destinations mentioned. I always thought he would be in NE or nowhere else. But a team like SF that might have been the right QB away this year would be the only argument that remotely made sense to me.

 

Gee. If only a QB was allowed to do something like throw the ball away to avoid a sack instead of trying to be a hero. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,116]

2 minutes ago, patweisers44 said:

I don't see the fit either.  A younger, seemingly more-mobile Winston was sacked 47 times behind that o-line last year.  Brady also made hay throwing to slot guys and RBs which aren't strong suits in TB either.

I didn't agree with him going to SF or any of the other destinations mentioned. I always thought he would be in NE or nowhere else. But a team like SF that might have been the right QB away this year would be the only argument that remotely made sense to me.

 

The reasons Winston got sacked a lot are 1) he held on to the ball too long, and 2) he never threw the ball away.

Both Godwin and Evans are capable of playing many snaps from the slot.

Yes, Tampa absolutely needs to address the RB position.  I actually think that because they signed Brady, they take an RB at #14.

[The Elevator Killer 497]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I agree.  The RB really needs to be upgraded.

And invest in a tackle. 

[patweisers44 697]

2 minutes ago, The Elevator Killer said:

Gee. If only a QB was allowed to do something like throw the ball away to avoid a sack instead of trying to be a hero. 

I think we both agree he is the GOAT.  I think where we differ is you think its more because of him and his individual talents and I think its more because of the system and players around him.  I guess we'll see.

[TBayXXXVII 2,116]

Just now, The Elevator Killer said:

And invest in a tackle. 

Yeah, at some point.  I can see the Bucs being very active in the draft and maybe even still in free agency.  Possibly make some trades.  I can see Brate or Howard being traded for a pick.

[The Elevator Killer 497]

Just now, patweisers44 said:

I think we both agree he is the GOAT.  I think where we differ is you think its more because of him and his individual talents and I think its more because of the system and players around him.  I guess we'll see.

I think Arias will adjust to TB12. 

[The Elevator Killer 497]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, at some point.  I can see the Bucs being very active in the draft and maybe even still in free agency.  Possibly make some trades.  I can see Brate or Howard being traded for a pick.

I think so too. I can see them trading up for one of the tackles. Trading one of the TE. Drafting someone to replace Suh unless he decides to give us a discount. 

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, at some point.  I can see the Bucs being very active in the draft and maybe even still in free agency.  Possibly make some trades.  I can see Brate or Howard being traded for a pick.

If you don't have a line that can protect Brady, it won't matter what you have for WR's.  This thinking that Brady at 43 will be the same that he was at 37 is also a little off.  Temper expectations.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,116]

32 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

If you don't have a line that can protect Brady, it won't matter what you have for WR's.  This thinking that Brady at 43 will be the same that he was at 37 is also a little off.  Temper expectations.  

Their line isn't bad, Winston made them look really bad.  They just need a slight upgrade, not an overhaul.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Over the last 8 seasons, prior to 2019, Brady averaged just over 600 pass attempts per 16 game season while completing 64.5% of those passes, there's no reason why he would not be able to throw 600 times again.  To say he can't is pretty ignorant.  Also, the reason why Winston has to throw the ball 625+ times is because he's turning the ball over all the time, so Brady won't have to throw that many times... but he could if needed.

A big misconception is that Tampa airs the ball out all the time.  That's not the case.  Tampa does try passes that are deep... as in really deep, because Winston can throw that far.  The problem is, he can't complete them because he's not accurate.  Brady can easily throw the ball 30 and 40 yards down field... and complete them.  THAT, is significantly more effective than throwing the ball 50 yards down field and NOT completing them.  Also, another reason why Winston throws the ball that far is because he holds the ball too long.  Brady won't do that.  He'll get the ball out.

People don't really see where a lot of stats are coming from, they just see them.  They see Evans and Godwin putting up 14, 15, or 16+ yards per reception... here's the thing, there's virtually never any YAC.  Winston puts the ball on their bodies and they're generally tackled right away, he never leads them.  Brady will get the ball out sooner and hit them in stride.  Their YAC is likely to go up without the ball having to travel as far.  Efficiency is not a problem.  Getting the ball to the play makers is not a bad thing.  If a Mike Evans play (with Winston), goes for 17 yards where the ball traveled 16 of them... is that worse than a pass going to Evan from Brady where the ball traveled 7 yards but Evans ran for 10 more?  I don't think so.  In fact, it's better that the ball doesn't travel as far.  The longer the ball is in the play makers hands, the potential for more yards is more likely.

The fit is fine because "the system" isn't static.  The QB controls when and where the ball gets thrown.  Brady will not sit and hold the ball forever like Winston.  The same plays can be called, the difference is that, like I just mentioned, instead of the ball traveling 16 yards and the net result is 17 yards, the ball will travel... 10 yards and the play will still go for 17 yards.  Proof?  Mike Evans career yrds/rec = 15.7 (the last 2 over 17)... Gronkowski... 15.1 (for his career).  That's not a big difference.  To note, Gronk did have a 16+ season and a season over 23 (though in only 6 games).  Prior to last season, Brady averaged 4600 passing yards (16-game average), since 2015 (Winston's rookie season), Winston averaged 4400.  Why are people pretending that Brady can't throw for a lot of yards while Winston threw for a ton.

Winston threw for 5000 yards because he's a bad QB, not because he's got a great arm.  There's no need for Brady to throw for 5000 yards, but he can definitely throw for 4500 (or more), because he has great weapons.

So you suggest Brady can throw it 600 times that arent dink and dunks?   He is 42 years old with an obvious deterioration of his arm.  I dont care how many he had averaged in dink and dunk ville.  

We will see how this pans out.  I saw a vastly different QB from the start compared to the end of the year.  

[Strike 3,968]

Per Rotoworld:
 

Quote

 

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports Tom Brady wants to play with Antonio Brown.

Teams who were in contact with Brady during free agency reportedly were under the impression that this was one of Brady's requests. Brown, of course, is dealing with multiple off the field issues, including sexual misconduct and battery, and is still under investigation by the NFL. Even if Brown is cleared by the NFL, it's not a given that an owner, general manager, and head coach would all agree to give him a contract, but a wide receiver trio of Brown, Mike Evans, and Chris Godwin would be terrifying for the rest of the NFC.

 

WTF?  Why would you want to risk focking up the locker room when you have two pro bowl level receivers on the roster already?

[edjr 5,563]

4 minutes ago, Strike said:

Per Rotoworld:
 

WTF?  Why would you want to risk focking up the locker room when you have two pro bowl level receivers on the roster already?

This isn't really news?  but can you blame TB12 for wanting to surround himself with someone who he knows he can gel with.

I think TB should trade one of their young WR's for Edelman. Go ALL IN

[Strike 3,968]

Just now, edjr said:

This isn't really news?  but can you blame TB for wanting to surround himself with someone who he knows he can gel with

Since when did TB become a thug?  I mean, I could see Aaron Hernandez hanging around with AB but Brady?  What makes you think he can gel with AB more than Evans and Godwin?

[edjr 5,563]

If Chris Goodwin doesn't give up his number, will be be TB3?

[edjr 5,563]

1 minute ago, Strike said:

Since when did TB become a thug?  I mean, I could see Aaron Hernandez hanging around with AB but Brady?  What makes you think he can gel with AB more than Evans and Godwin?

They already played together (even though it was 2 weeks)  what is important is BRADY thinks they can.

If Goodwin doesn't give up his number, they will have to trade him,

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Their line isn't bad, Winston made them look really bad.  They just need a slight upgrade, not an overhaul.

Tom is a statue now and doesn't like people nipping at his heels.  He gets happy feet and throws the ball away without max protection.  That is one reason why his completion percentage went down so much.  That and shitty receivers.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,116]

31 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

So you suggest Brady can throw it 600 times that arent dink and dunks?   He is 42 years old with an obvious deterioration of his arm.  I dont care how many he had averaged in dink and dunk ville.  

We will see how this pans out.  I saw a vastly different QB from the start compared to the end of the year.  

I'm saying that he can if he has to, not that it's a given that the game plan will be designed to do so.  I know he's 42, but he's probably in better shape that guys that are over 35 (like Ben (who threw 675 passes in 2018), Rivers (who threw 591 last years), & Brees.  He won't NEED to throw the ball that many times because they'll be more efficient.  I think his completion% will go up back into the mid/high 60's (66, 67%), and his ypa will go up because of the talent that he has to work with.  The year he had Moss, he completed 69% of his passes and averaged over 8 ypa.  That can happen again considering the number of quality pass catchers he has.  I think he can have a 4500 yard/35+ TD season while only throwing the ball 570 times.  I mean, at that point, we're only talking about 2 passes more per game.

[edjr 5,563]

The only reason Brady goes to TB, they were the ONLY team interested

[Strike 3,968]

7 minutes ago, edjr said:

The only reason Brady goes to TB, they were the ONLY team interested

[TBayXXXVII 2,116]

24 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

Tom is a statue now and doesn't like people nipping at his heels.  He gets happy feet and throws the ball away without max protection.  That is one reason why his completion percentage went down so much.  That and shitty receivers.  

Tampa ranked 10th in OVA in pass blocking last year... and that's with a QB who held on to the ball entirely too long.  The Bucs also have a great pass blocking TE (Howard), and a good pass blocking TE (Auclair) to help out.  Winston didn't really run that much either really.  Oh, sure, a lot more than Brady, but a lot of times, Winston was running because of poor decision making.  No one will ever accuse Brady of being a bad decision maker.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Im not trying to say this will be an epic fail.  I just think there is more chance that it is a fail than some long playoff run.  

As of right now I expect the Saints to still win that division and Bucs not in the playoffs.  

Brady was in 1 locker room his whole career with a coach/gm who got guys who bought in.  I dont think changing the locker room is as easy as showing up and leading.  It will take some time for attitudes and work ethics to change over.  Time Brady doesnt have.  Tom isnt going to have as much trust and chemistry with either WR as he did with Edleman or Gronk.  

I feel like some people think Tom shows up and boom the Bucs turn into the Pats with how they do things.  Just not the case.  BB built something in NE and had a process and attitude deeply instilled into that franchise.  

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

2 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Im not trying to say this will be an epic fail.  I just think there is more chance that it is a fail than some long playoff run.  

As of right now I expect the Saints to still win that division and Bucs not in the playoffs.  

Brady was in 1 locker room his whole career with a coach/gm who got guys who bought in.  I dont think changing the locker room is as easy as showing up and leading.  It will take some time for attitudes and work ethics to change over.  Time Brady doesnt have.  Tom isnt going to have as much trust and chemistry with either WR as he did with Edleman or Gronk.  

I feel like some people think Tom shows up and boom the Bucs turn into the Pats with how they do things.  Just not the case.  BB built something in NE and had a process and attitude deeply instilled into that franchise.  

Yeah. I'd put the odds something like this... 

 

Overwhelming success - 10%

Good, not great - 20%

Mediocre - 30%

Mildly bad - 30%

Absolute train wreck - 10%

Id say wild card berth and early exit is about the high expectation.