Big Ben Time Out in the Burgh?

[Ironmen 14]

1 hour ago, Law said:

Third post in the thread. First mention of wins and losses....but only "responding" to the discussion right?

Some people just like to create an argument to argue.

Indeed, of mostly nonsense.

[weepaws 2,452]

Better yet, how many yards And tds would Winston had as a Steeler last season?  

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

17 hours ago, Law said:

Third post in the thread. First mention of wins and losses....but only "responding" to the discussion right?

Some people just like to create an argument to argue.

The original post was a link to article about a QB helping the NFL team to win more games.  It had nothing to do with fantasy football.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

16 hours ago, Smileseers said:

As a Steeler fan who thinks that Winston is an upgrade over Rudolph, I really respect TBay's knowledge of Winston and I appreciate the arguments he has made.

What would the Buccaneers record have been last season with Rudolph at QB?

 

I don't think the Bucs record would have been much different than what it was... anywhere between 6-10 and 8-8.  On the surface, that may not seem like Winston hurt the team... but we are comparing a 5-year veteran to a first year starter.  Going in to 2020, I'd say that with Rudolph in his 2nd year as a starter would most likely help the Bucs to a 10-win season where as if Winston stayed one more, they'd probably be between a 5 and 8 win team, similar to 4 of the previous 5 seasons.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

16 hours ago, Ironmen said:

Indeed, of mostly nonsense.

So your original post and the link you provided was about fantasy football not real football?  What leads you to that conclusion?

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

Better yet, how many yards And tds would Winston had as a Steeler last season?  

 

Probably only a touch more than what Rudolph and Hodges combined for.  The Steelers have their system/game plan.  They're not going to become more aggressive with a QB who can't get out of his own way.  The ONLY reason why Winston would have probably posted more numbers is because 1) he's more experienced and 2) he'd have turned the ball over more often and forced more throwing in the 4th quarter of games.  Rudolph and Hodges had 8 wins in 14 games, that's 1 more win in 2 less chances than Winston.

[weepaws 2,452]

So you think that Winston would have thrown for only a touch over 2700 yards and 18 tds? 

If that’s true then my statement would be correct, when I said if I was a Steelers fan I wouldn’t want him. 

So you don’t think he could produce in ff as a Steeler then I take it based on your answer. 

I mean based on him being just a touch over those other two qbs yardage total and td total, that would have been Winston worst yardage total and close to his worst td total  

I wouldn’t be happy with picking that up   

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

18 hours ago, weepaws said:

So you think that Winston would have thrown for only a touch over 2700 yards and 18 tds? 

If that’s true then my statement would be correct, when I said if I was a Steelers fan I wouldn’t want him. 

So you don’t think he could produce in ff as a Steeler then I take it based on your answer. 

I mean based on him being just a touch over those other two qbs yardage total and td total, that would have been Winston worst yardage total and close to his worst td total  

I wouldn’t be happy with picking that up   

 

First off, remember, Rudolph and Hodges only played in 14 games, not 16.  In 14 games, that's about 200 yards and 1.25 TD's per game.  I'd expect Winston, under the circumstances (other players' injuries), conservative offense, and what would have been his first year there... to have thrown for about 225 yards per game and around 1.5 TD's per game.  To me, that's ballpark.  I'm also giving Winston the benefit of the doubt too, as he probably would've thrown more Int's.  That said, I think Rudolph alone, is a much better comparison.  Hodges really sucked.  I mean, if you look at Rudolph's 8 games, his numbers aren't all that far off of Winston's career numbers.  When you take into account system, the numbers are reasonable.

Winston played in a very aggressive offense with a lot of really good WR's, Rudolph played in a very conservative offense with a revolving door at RB, WR, and TE... and yet, Rudolph's comp% was higher than Winston's (career), 62.2% compared to 61.3% for Winston.  Sure, that difference would assume to be an even break when you consider than Winston's ypa of 7.7 is higher than Rudolph's 6.2.  Winston's TD% is higher, 1.7 to 1.3, but Rudolph's 0.9 Int% is better than Winston's 1.2.  In the end, Rudolph's 82 passer rating isn't all that far off from Winston's 86.9.  Just for extra info, Rudolph was better at avoiding sacks as well, his 1.5 sack rate is better than Winston's 2.3.

Winston is a tragically awful decision maker, while holding the ball and throwing it.  He takes way more sacks than he should... he throws way too many balls into coverage, and holds on to the ball entirely too long.  If he were only a first or second year player, that's fine... but he's not.  He's a 5-year veteran who still plays like a second year player.  ANY team who takes him to be their starter, I guarantee you, that team wins less games than the prior year.  No matter what team he is on, if he's the backup and has to play for an extended period of time, their fans better hope that their team has a really good record by the time Winston plays, because any lead they had in the standings will be gone when the starter gets back.

Just a side note, Winston over the last 5 years, leads the league in fumbles (50 - tied with Kirk Cousins), and in fumbles lost with 23.  That, combined with his NFL leading 88 Int's, over that same period of time, gives him 111 total turnovers in 72 games.  Blake Bortles is second at 76 turnovers in 64 games.  Just some more food for thought.

[weepaws 2,452]

Ok so based on your own math, Winston would have thrown for 3600 yards over 16 games ,and 24 tds.  

Based on his playing in a 16 game season, those would be his lowest totals based on the other three 16 games seasons he’s had. 

So once again see him not being ff productive with the Steelers.  

Ok once again we agree. 

And? I’ll be waiting, cause I know it’s coming.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

30 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Ok so based on your own math, Winston would have thrown for 3600 yards over 16 games ,and 24 tds.  

Based on his playing in a 16 game season, those would be his lowest totals based on the other three 16 games seasons he’s had. 

So once again see him not being ff productive with the Steelers.  

Ok once again we agree. 

And? I’ll be waiting, cause I know it’s coming.

Well wait a minute, there's a difference.  My statement was based on the Steelers team LAST YEAR, with the numerous amounts of injuries and revolving door of personal at the WR, TE, and RB positions.  It was stated that Winston would be an upgrade over Rudolph and Hodges.  I said, based on last years numbers, Winston wouldn't have likely fared much better and in fact, would've probably lost more games.  That's what my statements were based on.  Going forward, that's a different story.  The Steelers do have a more conservative offense and won't anticipate throwing the ball over 600 times.  Of course, because Winston throws a lot of pick's, they might.  LOL.   If everyone stays relatively healthy in Pittsburgh, I can see Winston throwing for 4200 yards and 28 TD's over a 16-game season... and a 7-9 record.

If he ends up on team that is willing to air it out more, I can see him in the 4700 yard/30+ TD range... and their team going 7-9 or 6-10.

[Ironmen 14]

Enough said....stop the madness and nonsense:

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/08/steelers-jameis-winston-bill-cowher-nfl/

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beyond Chaos 75]

6 minutes ago, Ironmen said:

Enough said....stop the madness and nonsense:

https://steelerswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/08/steelers-jameis-winston-bill-cowher-nfl/

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a Steelers fan, i'd take a hard pass on Winston.  I'd feel more confident in a likely washed up Cam Newton.  Ultimately, I think they need to draft a QB and get him up to speed. 

Also:  https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player/12159/jameis-winston

[Ironmen 14]

7 minutes ago, Beyond Chaos said:

As a Steelers fan, i'd take a hard pass on Winston.  I'd feel more confident in a likely washed up Cam Newton.  Ultimately, I think they need to draft a QB and get him up to speed. 

Also:  https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player/12159/jameis-winston

Yeah I would rather see Cam as Ben's backup and possible replacement....but I think Cam will end up in NE...so Jameis is/was my choice when he became available although it seems unlikely as team management hasn't been pro Jameis. 

[weepaws 2,452]

46 minutes ago, Beyond Chaos said:

As a Steelers fan, i'd take a hard pass on Winston.  I'd feel more confident in a likely washed up Cam Newton.  Ultimately, I think they need to draft a QB and get him up to speed. 

Also:  https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player/12159/jameis-winston

Agreed.  

I think Winston would be more willing then Cam to be a back up Qb through. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

I think the Steelers should just keep things at the status quo.  Rudolph didn't do all that bad considering all that went down last season.  He was 5-3 on a team that was 3-5 when he didn't play.  The defense had their 2 worst games of the season in weeks 1 and 2 with Roethlisberger, so it's not like the defense was worse when Rudolph came in.  Of the 7 best offensive performances, Rudolph was in for 5 of them and was 4-1 in those 5 games.  He was playing for the first time, cut the kid some slack.  I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Rudolph as my starter than I would with Newton or Winston.

The Steelers are probably best served by addressing the backfield (need guys who can stay on the field), tidying up their OLine (their run blocking was bad last year), and the defense in the draft.  Clearly, not having a 1st or 3rd round pick will help, but I think it's a bad idea to waste any financial or draft capital on a position that doesn't need to be addressed... this year.

[jrokh 567]

15 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Rudolph as my starter than I would with Newton or Winston.

The Cleveland Browns fully approve of this message...

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

Just now, jrokh said:

The Cleveland Browns fully approve of this message...

Anything the Browns approve of... the Steelers should be comfortable in that decision.

[jrokh 567]

30 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Anything the Browns approve of... the Steelers should be comfortable in that decision.

The Steelers were so comfortable with Rudolph facing the Browns the 2nd time around that they benched him for the duck guy, even with Myles Garrett suspended. Apparently the 12 QBR and 36 passer rating Rudolph achieved in the 1st meeting didn't provide the Steelers with the comfort level you suggest...

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

8 minutes ago, jrokh said:

The Steelers were so comfortable with Rudolph facing the Browns the 2nd time around that they benched him for the duck guy, even with Myles Garrett suspended. Apparently the 12 QBR and 36 passer rating Rudolph achieved in the 1st meeting didn't provide the Steelers with the comfort level you suggest...

When did I say the Steelers were comfortable?  I never said the Steelers felt any kind of way... I was giving my opinions.  We'll know the Steelers' feelings after the draft when they've addressed their biggest needs.  If the Steelers don't address the QB position, which I think would be the right move, then we'll know that they are comfortable with who they have.

[jrokh 567]

19 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

When did I say the Steelers were comfortable?  I never said the Steelers felt any kind of way... I was giving my opinions.  We'll know the Steelers' feelings after the draft when they've addressed their biggest needs.  If the Steelers don't address the QB position, which I think would be the right move, then we'll know that they are comfortable with who they have.

You literally used the word "Comfortable", that's the only reason I did, your words bruh. If they don't draft a QB it could be they go after Cam or Dalton. The Steelers don't have a 1st round pick this year, they might not view the third tier options as any better than what they have, doesn't mean squat...

[weepaws 2,452]

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think the Steelers should just keep things at the status quo.  Rudolph didn't do all that bad considering all that went down last season.  He was 5-3 on a team that was 3-5 when he didn't play.  The defense had their 2 worst games of the season in weeks 1 and 2 with Roethlisberger, so it's not like the defense was worse when Rudolph came in.  Of the 7 best offensive performances, Rudolph was in for 5 of them and was 4-1 in those 5 games.  He was playing for the first time, cut the kid some slack.  I'd feel a lot more comfortable with Rudolph as my starter than I would with Newton or Winston.

The Steelers are probably best served by addressing the backfield (need guys who can stay on the field), tidying up their OLine (their run blocking was bad last year), and the defense in the draft.  Clearly, not having a 1st or 3rd round pick will help, but I think it's a bad idea to waste any financial or draft capital on a position that doesn't need to be addressed... this year.

I would disagree. 

I don’t think the Steelers have any safety net for Big Ben on their current roster. 

They need to upgrade their back up Qb. 

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:53 PM, jrokh said:

You literally used the word "Comfortable", that's the only reason I did, your words bruh. If they don't draft a QB it could be they go after Cam or Dalton. The Steelers don't have a 1st round pick this year, they might not view the third tier options as any better than what they have, doesn't mean squat...

Again, I said it was my opinion, bruh... not the Steelers.