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tubby_mcgee

People not paying rent "because coronavirus". Not given refunds, etc. Thoughts?

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I know which side I'm on.  I am wondering your side.

These days, so many people, even when not necessary, know they can get away with anything "because coronavirus".   Some may have reasons...real reasons related to it.  But I think many just use it in the same the way the blacks use the race card. 

 

On another note, the gym I go to, I pre-pay $780 a year for a family membership.  I asked about a refund for the month they are going to be closed.  The person said "Not looking like any refunds, as the coronvirus was out of our control."  I said...uh...that's now how it works.   The NCAA Tourney was canceled. People had tickets.  Do you think they are just telling people "No refunds because we can't help it because coronavirus"?  She said, "We are having meetings about it because others have asked about refunds also, but I don't know why we would have to refund" 


And zero focking chance they don't refund unless they go bankrupt.  At least my money anyway.  Its all about principle. 


So not just rent, but what else are people gonna use the corona card on?

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Well, since the government told people they can't go to work, how are they supposed to pay rent? 

This is a unique situation and, as such, I would expect certain people to have some sympathy for the burdens placed on others through no fault of their own. 

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1 minute ago, 5-Points said:

Well, since the government told people they can't go to work, how are they supposed to pay rent? 

This is a unique situation and, as such, I would expect certain people to have some sympathy for the burdens placed on others through no fault of their own. 


This is the situation that bugs me. Person A and Person B make same money.

 

Person A:  Buys 25k vehicle.  Take a vacation every 2-3 years.  etc etc etc
Person B: Buys 50k vehicle, takes 2 vacations a year etc etc etc.


Person A can afford rent. 
Person B says "because coronavirus"


Also, Landlords still need to pay banks on the rental property.  

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2 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

Well, since the government told people they can't go to work, how are they supposed to pay rent? 

This is a unique situation and, as such, I would expect certain people to have some sympathy for the burdens placed on others through no fault of their own. 

I think a compromise could/should be acceptable.  The gym's expenses during that time frame are significantly less in regards to utilities, payroll, cleaning, etc.  The gym should refund a percentage and the member should be willing to understand in getting a refund much lower than they feel they're entitled to.  What I think a possible outcome would be is that the gym extends your membership an extra month, two, or 3 for free.  Maybe offer you a 6-month extension for half price?

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1 minute ago, tubby_mcgee said:


This is the situation that bugs me. Person A and Person B make same money.

 

Person A:  Buys 25k vehicle.  Take a vacation every 2-3 years.  etc etc etc
Person B: Buys 50k vehicle, takes 2 vacations a year etc etc etc.


Person A can afford rent. 
Person B says "because coronavirus"


Also, Landlords still need to pay banks on the rental property.  

There will always be people who take advantage of a situation... it's hard to prevent it.

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1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

There will always be people who take advantage of a situation... it's hard to prevent it.

heck im thinking of trying to suspend my mortgage for 3 months and just taking that money and making payments to principal instead 

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7 minutes ago, tubby_mcgee said:


This is the situation that bugs me. Person A and Person B make same money.

 

Person A:  Buys 25k vehicle.  Take a vacation every 2-3 years.  etc etc etc
Person B: Buys 50k vehicle, takes 2 vacations a year etc etc etc.


Person A can afford rent. 
Person B says "because coronavirus"


Also, Landlords still need to pay banks on the rental property.  

The banks would need to give the LL's a break on the mortgage as well. I mean, vudu (I think) said he got a 6 month forbearance in his mortgage. What's to stop the LL from doing the same and still holding his tenant liable for the rent every month? 

If the government is going to prevent people from working under penalty of jail time/ fine, there needs to be some sort of debt forgiveness associated with it in my opinion. 

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In the Great Depression, people that couldn't pay rent got evicted.  They started living on the street en masse or public parks in makeshift shanty-towns.  These soon were named "Hoovervilles" as the public blamed President Hoover for having to live in them.  Then they elected FDR.

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16 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think a compromise could/should be acceptable.  The gym's expenses during that time frame are significantly less in regards to utilities, payroll, cleaning, etc.  The gym should refund a percentage and the member should be willing to understand in getting a refund much lower than they feel they're entitled to.  What I think a possible outcome would be is that the gym extends your membership an extra month, two, or 3 for free.  Maybe offer you a 6-month extension for half price?

If you're still paying your dues to the gym then the gym needs to keep all employees on the payroll. 

And yes, you should get a free month or two since you can't use the facility. 

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Most people that rent will be getting a minimum of 1200 from the gubment, 500 additional per child AND an extra 600 if they are currently collecting unemployment. Now isn't the time to be crying coronavirus

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8 minutes ago, riversco said:

In the Great Depression, people that couldn't pay rent got evicted.  They started living on the street en masse or public parks in makeshift shanty-towns.  These soon were named "Hoovervilles" as the public blamed President Hoover for having to live in them.  Then they elected FDR.

In the GD, there were no jobs to be had. 

We had a booming economy with record low unemployment and the government told people they could not go to work anymore. 

Some people were deemed "essential" and allowed to keep going to work. Some people were allowed to work from home. A shitload of people were furloughed, laid off or let go outright because there was no work from home option available to them.

You're comparing apples and orangutans. 

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Just now, 5-Points said:

In the GD, there were no jobs to be had. 

We had a booming economy with record low unemployment and the government told people they could not go to work anymore. 

Some people were deemed "essential" and allowed to keep going to work. Some people were allowed to work from home. A shitload of people were furloughed, laid off or let go outright because there was no work from home option available to them.

You're comparing apples and orangutans. 

Someone ALWAYS has to bring Trump into an argument

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5 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

If you're still paying your dues to the gym then the gym needs to keep all employees on the payroll. 

And yes, you should get a free month or two since you can't use the facility. 

Sure, they can keep them on the payroll, but if the gym can't open no one is working.  Generally, gym employees aren't salary, they're hourly.  If they're not working, they're not getting paid.

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4 minutes ago, edjr said:

Most people that rent will be getting a minimum of 1200 from the gubment, 500 additional per child AND an extra 600 if they are currently collecting unemployment. Now isn't the time to be crying coronavirus

There will be a good number of people who live in cities and make over $75,000 whos rent may be $2000 a month or more... going to put a hurting on those people

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It's all so complicated, but my initial thought is that Government ( taxes, regulations, corruption ) via the banks have made properties both commercial and residential far too expensive.

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9 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Sure, they can keep them on the payroll, but if the gym can't open no one is working.  Generally, gym employees aren't salary, they're hourly.  If they're not working, they're not getting paid.

That's my point. If the members are all still paying dues, the gym can afford to pay their employees for the hours they would normally be working. 

There's no excuse for continuing to collect dues and simultaneously letting people go. 

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8 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

The banks would need to give the LL's a break on the mortgage as well. I mean, vudu (I think) said he got a 6 month forbearance in his mortgage. What's to stop the LL from doing the same and still holding his tenant liable for the rent every month? 

If the government is going to prevent people from working under penalty of jail time/ fine, there needs to be some sort of debt forgiveness associated with it in my opinion. 

I'm not an accounting or stimulus relief expert, but I don't think banks would give the same attention to investment properties as they do primary home owners. 

My situation was a little unique since I know the CEO of the local bank.  He and I got together at the outset to talk about this thing and he's the one who suggested the forbearance for our home mortgage as a means to help preserve cash until we know what the future holds. 

Anyway,  we have some savings, plus an emergency fund, some investments and my wife's 401K.  We could pay all our monthly bills for the next 9 months and beyond if we had to, but that would completely wipe out our savings and leave us with the 401K and the other investment accounts.

As for rent on a home, landlords should hold their properties in an LLC or a corporation.  Since that is their biz, they can demonstrate that it has been disrupted by COVID, there are several SBA programs that would help them.  One of the programs provides money for mortgage payments of biz property and may actually be forgivable.  Anyway.  Lots of red tape, and a roundabout way to get there, but the stimulus money should essentially cover both parties.  

 

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13 minutes ago, edjr said:

Someone ALWAYS has to bring Trump into an argument

:huh: 

Did I mention Trump? 

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14 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

.

3 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

:huh: 

Did I mention Trump? 

You're comparing apples and orangutans. 

 

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2 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

That's my point. If the members are all still paying dues, the gym can afford to pay their employees for the hours they would normally be working. 

There's no excuse for continuing to collect dues and simultaneously letting people go. 

Right, but they still have bills to pay.  They may be paying rent or a mortgage.  They'll still have some utilities to pay, just not as much.  They're still going to have to pay for upkeep (cleaning as dust accrues), etc.  It's not like they're living free so to speak.

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25 minutes ago, edjr said:

Most people that rent will be getting a minimum of 1200 from the gubment, 500 additional per child AND an extra 600 if they are currently collecting unemployment. Now isn't the time to be crying coronavirus

Did you form a corp, and LLC or a sole proprietorship for you rental property biz?  If so, talk to your banker about the paycheck protection plan if your renters are unable to pay.  Again, I'm not an expert, but as I read it, this could apply to your biz.  You are allowed to use the money for mortgage payments on the biz property and it could be forgiven. 

https://bench.co/blog/operations/paycheck-protection-program/

And as you said, encourage your renters to get their direct deposit info to the IRS if they haven't already.  Also make sure they've filed for that unemployment.  

ETA:  The fine print says you can you use the money for interest on a mortgage, but not principal.

https://www.laweekly.com/seven-time-sensitive-steps-to-follow-to-get-a-payroll-protection-plan-loan/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=seven-time-sensitive-steps-to-follow-to-get-a-payroll-protection-plan-loan

Sixth: Make sure to use the PPP loan proceeds only for “authorized” purposes

On a mainstream network news show, I watched two reports stating PPP loans can only be used to fund payroll.  THIS IS FALSE.  The CARES Act allows impacted employer/PPP loan borrowers to also use such funds to:

  • pay costs related to the continuation of group health care benefits during periods of paid sick, medical, or family leave, and insurance premiums;
  • make payments of interest (but not principal or prepayment of principal) on any mortgage obligation;
  • pay rent (including rent under a lease agreement);
  • pay utilities; and
  • pay interest on any other debt obligations incurred before the PPP loan goes into effect.

Make sure to track your company’s use of the PPP loan funds to later prove you used them only for these purposes (and, of course, to pay any of the above-listed payroll costs.) If you do, you will stand a much better chance of having your PPP loan totally forgiven (paid for by the federal government).

 

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7 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

I'm not an accounting or stimulus relief expert, but I don't think banks would give the same attention to investment properties as they do primary home owners. 

My situation was a little unique since I know the CEO of the local bank.  He and I got together at the outset to talk about this thing and he's the one who suggested the forbearance for our home mortgage as a means to help preserve cash until we know what the future holds. 

Anyway,  we have some savings, plus an emergency fund, some investments and my wife's 401K.  We could pay all our monthly bills for the next 9 months and beyond if we had to, but that would completely wipe out our savings and leave us with the 401K and the other investment accounts.

As for rent on a home, landlords should hold their properties in an LLC or a corporation.  Since that is their biz, they can demonstrate that it has been disrupted by COVID, there are several SBA programs that would help them.  One of the programs provides money for mortgage payments of biz property and may actually be forgivable.  Anyway.  Lots of red tape, and a roundabout way to get there, but the stimulus money should essentially cover both parties.  

 

My only point was that if banks are going to give property owners a break during a crisis like this, it's only right for said property owners to pass that along to their tenants. 

I'm sure some will and others won't but if you aren't going to allow people to continue working, I think the breaks should be mandatory. 

My wife and I got laid off at the same time a few years back. We voluntarily decided to take some time off. That time lasted longer than either of us had anticipated. About a year and a half longer. We burned through pretty much all of our savings and took a loan from our 401K's to pay the bills. The initial time off was our choice so it was our responsibility. 

Why should you have to burn through your savings because the government told you to close your business and stay home for 2 months? 

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10 minutes ago, edjr said:

 

:lol:  :lol: :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

 

If the government is going to prevent people from working under penalty of jail time/ fine, there needs to be some sort of debt forgiveness associated with it in my opinion. 

So what about Person A in my scenario.  He is able to pay rent, but Person B "can't". 

What should "Person A" do?  

If you say he should pay....why should be he penalized?   

If you say he shouldn't pay either...then...jeez...the landlord is sunk, the bank will foreclose, and both renters lose their place.

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Everyone should be prepared to be out of work for 3-6 months.  They could just as easily get laid off as have a virus pandemic hit; it's actually more likely to get laid off. 

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The LL gets a break too. 

Everybody who misses work or suffers a financial hardship because of government mandated shutdowns should get some sort of break in my opinion. 

And I'm a small government guy. I don't think they should be able to make people stay home from work but they did it so they need to take responsibility for the fallout. 

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5 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

 

Why should you have to burn through your savings because the government told you to close your business and stay home for 2 months? 

Yes.  That's my issue.  Not only did they tell me I must close, but they're allowing my primary competitors to continue biz as usual.  

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5 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

Yes.  That's my issue.  Not only did they tell me I must close, but they're allowing my primary competitors to continue biz as usual.  

Now that's just focked up.  :nono:

 

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47 minutes ago, drobeski said:

Pay your focking rent. 

That is all. 

But I don't like to.  :(

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14 minutes ago, Strike said:

Everyone should be prepared to be out of work for 3-6 months.  They could just as easily get laid off as have a virus pandemic hit; it's actually more likely to get laid off. 

Exactly. 

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18 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

:lol:  :lol: :lol:

 

;)

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50 minutes ago, drobeski said:

Pay your focking rent. 

That is all. 

 

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15 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

Yes.  That's my issue.  Not only did they tell me I must close, but they're allowing my primary competitors to continue biz as usual.  

That's focking bullsh@t it that is happening. 


There must be some small difference in the product or service they offer  (loophole) that allows them to stay open?

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6 minutes ago, Mookz said:

But I don't like to.  :(

Then simple....

"because coronavirus, sir"

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1 minute ago, tubby_mcgee said:

That's focking bullsh@t it that is happening. 


There must be some small difference in the product or service they offer  (loophole) that allows them to stay open?

He's referring to Lowe's and Home Depot who are deemed essential.  Personally, I'm having a hard time wrapping my hands around the notion that during this pandemic people are rushing to home Depot for flooring.

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9 minutes ago, Strike said:

He's referring to Lowe's and Home Depot who are deemed essential.  Personally, I'm having a hard time wrapping my hands around the notion that during this pandemic people are rushing to home Depot for flooring.

Yep.  People see this as a great opportunity to get caught up on those home projects they've been putting off.

If we're only supposed to be doing "essential" work, then only contractors should be allowed to purchase anything from these box stores.  And if that's the case, vudu should remain open as well.

Vudu - Did you look into what you'd need to sell in order to be considered essential?  Maybe you need to start selling some plumbing fittings.

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2 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

Yep.  People see this as a great opportunity to get caught up on those home projects they've been putting off.

If we're only supposed to be doing "essential" work, then only contractors should be allowed to purchase anything from these box stores.  And if that's the case, vudu should remain open as well.

Vudu - Did you look into what you'd need to sell in order to be considered essential?  Maybe you need to start selling some plumbing fittings.

So if your sink breaks or toilet is running all over you shouldn't be able to go to a store to get basic home maintenance material ?

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38 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

Did you form a corp, and LLC or a sole proprietorship for you rental property biz?  If so, talk to your banker about the paycheck protection plan if your renters are unable to pay.  Again, I'm not an expert, but as I read it, this could apply to your biz.  You are allowed to use the money for mortgage payments on the biz property and it could be forgiven. 

https://bench.co/blog/operations/paycheck-protection-program/

And as you said, encourage your renters to get their direct deposit info to the IRS if they haven't already.  Also make sure they've filed for that unemployment.  

ETA:  The fine print says you can you use the money for interest on a mortgage, but not principal.

https://www.laweekly.com/seven-time-sensitive-steps-to-follow-to-get-a-payroll-protection-plan-loan/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=seven-time-sensitive-steps-to-follow-to-get-a-payroll-protection-plan-loan

Sixth: Make sure to use the PPP loan proceeds only for “authorized” purposes

On a mainstream network news show, I watched two reports stating PPP loans can only be used to fund payroll.  THIS IS FALSE.  The CARES Act allows impacted employer/PPP loan borrowers to also use such funds to:

  • pay costs related to the continuation of group health care benefits during periods of paid sick, medical, or family leave, and insurance premiums;
  • make payments of interest (but not principal or prepayment of principal) on any mortgage obligation;
  • pay rent (including rent under a lease agreement);
  • pay utilities; and
  • pay interest on any other debt obligations incurred before the PPP loan goes into effect.

Make sure to track your company’s use of the PPP loan funds to later prove you used them only for these purposes (and, of course, to pay any of the above-listed payroll costs.) If you do, you will stand a much better chance of having your PPP loan totally forgiven (paid for by the federal government).

 

You missed a key point on the PPP, not everything qualifies to be totally forgiven:

How much of my loan will be forgiven? You will owe money when your loan is due if you use the loan amount for anything other than payroll costs, mortgage interest, rent, and utilities payments over the 8 weeks after getting the loan. Due to likely high subscription, it is anticipated that not more than 25% of the forgiven amount may be for non-payroll costs.

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