Instant Fantasy Analysis - RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire, Chiefs

[kilroy69 994]

I took him in all 4 leagues I am in. Ranging from the 4 spot to the 8 in the first.  I am all in on him this year being saquan good. 

[RabidSeaCows 99]

Something tells me he's gonna be the next Christian McCaffrey.

Next years top 3 will be between CM, SB and CEH. We'll be arguing this time on who's the true #1 pick 

[justforbeer 39]

1 hour ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Can’t compare size and 40 time and assume they’re the same type of player, on top of that I’d say MJD was an excellent RB.

 

CEH has excellent lateral movements and balance and vision. That’s what made him a star at LSU. 
 

MJD as small as he was, was a bruiser who worked mostly between the tackles and welcomed contact. 
 

I think a better comparison to CEH is someone like Mark Ingram. Similarly undersized and not impressive 40 time with EXCELLENT college production. 
 

Now imagine Mark Ingram (or I guess to your point MJD) as the top dawg RB in the KC offense. That RB is gonna score a bunch of fantasy points.

Hate to break it to you but Mark Ingram was 5’9” and 215 pounds with 4.53 40.

Not to mention that Mark Ingram failed to get 1000 yards rushing in his first five years in the league so if you wanna compare him to that then that doesn’t say much.

Also CEH Actually gets a lot of his yards inside the tackles also. More like an MJD.

Find me a guy that’s 57 with 4.6 speed and then maybe I’ll consider it

[justforbeer 39]

39 minutes ago, RabidSeaCows said:

Something tells me he's gonna be the next Christian McCaffrey.

Next years top 3 will be between CM, SB and CEH. We'll be arguing this time on who's the true #1 pick 

How laughable. McCaffrey is 5 foot 11 with a 4.48 40.

Taller and faster.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

35 minutes ago, justforbeer said:

Hate to break it to you but Mark Ingram was 5’9” and 215 pounds with 4.53 40.

Not to mention that Mark Ingram failed to get 1000 yards rushing in his first five years in the league so if you wanna compare him to that then that doesn’t say much.

Also CEH Actually gets a lot of his yards inside the tackles also. More like an MJD.

Find me a guy that’s 57 with 4.6 speed and then maybe I’ll consider it

Where do you have Ingram running a 4.5? 
 

everywhere I see him at 4.62

[jrokh 568]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

Who would be your first 8 players ? 

You know the usual suspects the top 7 Rb's (Josh Jacobs being the non obvious one) and Michael Thomas.

[weepaws 2,459]

10 minutes ago, jrokh said:

You know the usual suspects the top 7 Rb's (Josh Jacobs being the non obvious one) and Michael Thomas.

Thanks. 

[cmh6476 751]

2 hours ago, justforbeer said:

I’m not convinced.  

Sounds like he’s the size of a Maurice Jones Drew.

5’7” 210lbs 4.61 40 CEH.

5’7” 207 4.39 40 for MJD.

No preseason games, barely any practices and a half billion dollar quarterback to protect.

Talking Some serious hype here. He is not that fast in comparison to MJD.

It'll be interesting to see what the Chiefs saw in him, and how they use him as compared to what they could have had in a guy like D'Andre Swift.

[justforbeer 39]

1 hour ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Where do you have Ingram running a 4.5? 
 

everywhere I see him at 4.62

Pro day 4.53

https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=6394

[LoOnAtIk 75]

5 minutes ago, justforbeer said:

Pro day 4.53

https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=6394

I don’t need the link. Ingram ran a 4.62 at his combine would you like the link?

[justforbeer 39]

5 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I don’t need the link. Ingram ran a 4.62 at his combine would you like the link?

That’s fine, I pulled his pro day time. 

Still 2 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier.

Again Mark Ingram was not that impressive his first 3 years. Last year was his best overall statistical year and Baltimore already has somebody replacing him?

CEH, The only running back to ever be successful at his size and speed is......nobody.  That is my point.

[LoOnAtIk 75]

31 minutes ago, justforbeer said:

That’s fine, I pulled his pro day time. 

Still 2 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier.

Again Mark Ingram was not that impressive his first 3 years. Last year was his best overall statistical year and Baltimore already has somebody replacing him?

CEH, The only running back to ever be successful at his size and speed is......nobody.  That is my point.

In a league full of giants you’re really splitting hairs with those 2 inches and 10 pounds lol

[justforbeer 39]

2 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

In a league full of giants you’re really splitting hairs with those 2 inches and 10 pounds lol

Not really.  

The point is that he is small and does not have the speed like MJD.  2" means a lot. Especially when you are talking about the best athletes in football.

At 5'7" you should be quick like a sproles or MJD, but his 40 says otherwise.

Not saying it cannot be done, but you should be weary of the hype this guy is getting.....

[stonewall 647]

38 minutes ago, justforbeer said:

Not saying it cannot be done, but you should be weary of the hype this guy is getting.....

I am. Not to mention the fact that he is a rookie without any real preseason. This is why I have scooped up Darrell Williams on the cheap.....just in case.

Here is part of CEH's draft profile as compiled by The Draft Network Analyst Drae Harris back on 2/23/20, pre-NFL draft:

 Being a face up pass protector may be an issue in pass pro and cutting isn’t always effective against bigger, stronger blitzers. Needs to be more consistent when he is chipping and cutting a blitzing defender. In the NFL he is a change of pace back whom a coordinator may have to create a package for. He will not be the starter and his special teams value may diminish due to his size. This may hurt him with regards to the numbers of active players on game day. 

[justforbeer 39]

I know they are talking about how he can catch the ball too....  The guy has 1 career college TD catch.  ONE.

His numbers were inflated because he played against a high school team in Arkansas too.  Razorbacks last 6 games....0-6 average score 16 to 46.

 

Not that he can't be great, never going to say that but this is no slam dunk.  More likely a rim checka!  LOL

[stonewall 647]

FWIW, Marino said that the current NFL player that CEH is most comparable to in his mind would be Devin Singletary.

That said, there's no telling what "The Motor" might have accomplished in KC last year, as opposed to Buffalo.

[AxeElf 787]

They didn't draft him to be a pass protector, they drafted him to be a pass receiver--so arguments about whether or not he is a proficient pass protector are moot.

Whether or not he will be successful as a pass receiver remains to be seen, but until you get fantasy points for pass blocking, it's not a concern with Clyde.

[jrokh 568]

2 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

They didn't draft him to be a pass protector, they drafted him to be a pass receiver--so arguments about whether or not he is a proficient pass protector are moot.

Whether or not he will be successful as a pass receiver remains to be seen, but until you get fantasy points for pass blocking, it's not a concern with Clyde.

If you can't pass protect as a rb, you are less likely to be playing on third down, unless the chiefs want to send him out wide like a wr, but based on his 4.6 speed that is unlikely. Bottom line if you can't do that job, the chiefs with a 500 million dollar investment will find someone else who can. It shouldn't affect CEH on 1st and 2nd down, but it most certainly will on third...

[Matt Mueller 146]

Im in the camp that it takes a big leap of faith to take this guy in redraft at his ADP 

[AxeElf 787]

7 minutes ago, jrokh said:

If you can't pass protect as a rb, you are less likely to be playing on third down, unless the chiefs want to send him out wide like a wr, but based on his 4.6 speed that is unlikely. Bottom line if you can't do that job, the chiefs with a 500 million dollar investment will find someone else who can. It shouldn't affect CEH on 1st and 2nd down, but it most certainly will on third...

Unless of course the Chiefs WANT Clyde catching passes on 3rd down...  which is largely why they drafted him in the first place.

They won't be counting on him for pass protection when they're counting on him to make the catch.

[weepaws 2,459]

Don’t know his current ADP, but it’s 6-12 that’s where he should be taken. 

[jrokh 568]

32 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Unless of course the Chiefs WANT Clyde catching passes on 3rd down...  which is largely why they drafted him in the first place.

They won't be counting on him for pass protection when they're counting on him to make the catch.

No RB in the league that is in on obvious passing downs, goes out to catch a pass on every play. Sometimes they have to pick up the blitzer. Have you ever watched a football game before?

[RabidSeaCows 99]

First, you have to be able to a least chip a blitzer as a RB in the NFL. It's too easy for DEF to read the play is you only go in on running/passing downs. IMO

Second, Some players aren't motivated to run as fast as possible until in a game situation. There are plenty of examples of players finding a 6th gear in game time but not in practice or a unmotivated sprint drill...

JMHO

[LoOnAtIk 75]

4 hours ago, justforbeer said:

Not really.  

The point is that he is small and does not have the speed like MJD.  2" means a lot. Especially when you are talking about the best athletes in football.

At 5'7" you should be quick like a sproles or MJD, but his 40 says otherwise.

Not saying it cannot be done, but you should be weary of the hype this guy is getting.....

Give it a rest dude yes you really are splitting hairs. Sproles ran a 4.49 so you have him considerably faster than CEH yet Sproles is even smaller. Emmitt Smith ran a 4.5+ 40 time and he’s one of the goats but you’re gonna disqualify him for being too tall at 5’9”? LSU website has CEH listed at 5’8”. Grab a measuring tape and pull out 1 inch. 
 

If anything I fear the taller RB like Henry because they take more of a beating. Lots of smaller players in general have had success without being the fastest player on the field. Patriots have built empires on the backs of players like James White, Julian Edelman, and Wes Welker. 
 

The idea that CEH is either too small or too slow is beyond stupid. Now if you wanna talk about pass pro, I’ll listen. But I’m sure Andy Reid already thought of this before drafting him. 
 

If Ried can turn Mahomes into the best QB in the NFL, I’m sure he can teach CEH how to pass protect.

[justforbeer 39]

8 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Give it a rest dude yes you really are splitting hairs. Sproles ran a 4.49 so you have him considerably faster than CEH yet Sproles is even smaller. Emmitt Smith ran a 4.5+ 40 time and he’s one of the goats but you’re gonna disqualify him for being too tall at 5’9”? LSU website has CEH listed at 5’8”. Grab a measuring tape and pull out 1 inch. 
 

If anything I fear the taller RB like Henry because they take more of a beating. Lots of smaller players in general have had success without being the fastest player on the field. Patriots have built empires on the backs of players like James White, Julian Edelman, and Wes Welker. 
 

The idea that CEH is either too small or too slow is beyond stupid. Now if you wanna talk about pass pro, I’ll listen. But I’m sure Andy Reid already thought of this before drafting him. 
 

If Ried can turn Mahomes into the best QB in the NFL, I’m sure he can teach CEH how to pass protect.

So there is no difference between a 4.49 and 4.60?  I say that is a huge difference.  Making the hole or getting tacked.  Making a 8 yard run into a 40yd td.

Also, your examples are of WR's and a 3rd down back AND James White & Edelman are 5'10" by the way.  That same frame for a 3 down back is problematic.  His target radius, vision, blocking will all be challenges in comparison to larger backs. More importantly, to handle a 3 down feature role is brutal.  I believe the smaller backs have more difficulty.  That is why speed is important.

Also, Axe, you got owned by jrokh.  On 3rd downs many time they audible and keep the back in to pick up a blitz.  

I am sure he will learn and become a solid blocker....but it will take TIME.  That is the point.  It may be a month into the season before that happens and if he makes a mistake during game time......he will be benched.

 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

21 minutes ago, justforbeer said:

So there is no difference between a 4.49 and 4.60?  I say that is a huge difference.  Making the hole or getting tacked.  Making a 8 yard run into a 40yd td.

 

 

FFS you’re missing the point entirely. You’re not letting me compare him to players who are more realistically closer to his size but yet you keep bringing up sproles WHO IS CONSIDERABLY SMALLER!! I never said there’s no difference from 4.49 and 4.60 but FFS CEH has a solid 30 pounds of MEAT over sproles. That’s not splitting hairs. 
 

Go ahead I gave you Emmitt Smith. 5’9” and what 210-215? 40 time was around 4.6 also. LSU has CEH listed at 5’8” 209. If I give you Emmitt at 215, you’re telling me the 1 inch and 6 pounds is what is stopping him from success? 
 

Give. It. A. Rest.

[justforbeer 39]

1 hour ago, LoOnAtIk said:

FFS you’re missing the point entirely. You’re not letting me compare him to players who are more realistically closer to his size but yet you keep bringing up sproles WHO IS CONSIDERABLY SMALLER!! I never said there’s no difference from 4.49 and 4.60 but FFS CEH has a solid 30 pounds of MEAT over sproles. That’s not splitting hairs. 
 

Go ahead I gave you Emmitt Smith. 5’9” and what 210-215? 40 time was around 4.6 also. LSU has CEH listed at 5’8” 209. If I give you Emmitt at 215, you’re telling me the 1 inch and 6 pounds is what is stopping him from success? 
 

Give. It. A. Rest.

It’s not 1 inch. You’re making stuff up just to justify your argument.

He’s listed as 170 M which translates to 5 feet 6.9 inches.  He’s not even 5’ 7”!

 Emmitt Smith is 175 or 5‘9“ tall. It’s laughable that you’re trying to compare him to all these Hall of Famer‘s when he’s never even played a down in the NFL. He caught one ball for a touchdown in college. Plus, he had one good year in college against several teams that should’ve been playing high school football Where his numbers are inflated.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. If you’re lucky, he will be a great player.  I doubt it, In the first four weeks I bet he will be pretty average.

Sproles was smaller but also much faster. That is the difference.  

If you’re small, you can make It up with speed.

If you’re big, you can make it up with strength and size.  Cornerbacks don’t like trying to tackle a guy like Derrick Henry, that’s why he takes it to the house all the time.  6’3”, 247 pound back that runs a 4.54 40.  He is the real deal With size and speed. If he starts catching the ball out of the backfield, he may be the number 1RB this year.

[AxeElf 787]

2 hours ago, justforbeer said:

Also, Axe, you got owned by jrokh.  On 3rd downs many time they audible and keep the back in to pick up a blitz. 

I had to look that up in the Internet Dictionary:

"you got owned" - I disagree with you.

I don't believe they will put Clyde in that situation.  If they need a pass blocker, they'll have another RB in on the play.  If they need a pass catcher, they'll utilize Clyde in the manner for which he was drafted.

[The Shepherd 10]

So how valuable is Darrell Williams - any info from KC area on what the split will look like? 

[LoOnAtIk 75]

5 hours ago, justforbeer said:

It’s not 1 inch. You’re making stuff up just to justify your argument.

He’s listed as 170 M which translates to 5 feet 6.9 inches.  He’s not even 5’ 7”!

 Emmitt Smith is 175 or 5‘9“ tall. It’s laughable that you’re trying to compare him to all these Hall of Famer‘s when he’s never even played a down in the NFL. He caught one ball for a touchdown in college. Plus, he had one good year in college against several teams that should’ve been playing high school football Where his numbers are inflated.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid. If you’re lucky, he will be a great player.  I doubt it, In the first four weeks I bet he will be pretty average.

Sproles was smaller but also much faster. That is the difference.  

If you’re small, you can make It up with speed.

If you’re big, you can make it up with strength and size.  Cornerbacks don’t like trying to tackle a guy like Derrick Henry, that’s why he takes it to the house all the time.  6’3”, 247 pound back that runs a 4.54 40.  He is the real deal With size and speed. If he starts catching the ball out of the backfield, he may be the number 1RB this year.

A lot of wind you’re blowing. I told you 3 times it’s listed on LSU website. Would you like a link? 
 

FFS. His combine says 68 inches. Want me to convert that into feet for you? 
 

LMAO

[LoOnAtIk 75]

5 hours ago, justforbeer said:

It’s not 1 inch. You’re making stuff up just to justify your argument.

He’s listed as 170 M which translates to 5 feet 6.9 inches.  He’s not even 5’ 7”!

 Emmitt Smith is 175 or 5‘9“ tall. 

Look everyone justforbeer can do math. Everyone knows 170 m = 5 foot 6.9.

 

Poor CEH only 170 meters tall next to Emmitt and his 175 meters.

Go home dude you’re drunk.

[The Shepherd 10]

This warrants a discussion on the merits of the metric system.

Any of you guys bumping Darrell Williams up in your strategies?

[weepaws 2,459]

1 hour ago, The Shepherd said:

This warrants a discussion on the merits of the metric system.

Any of you guys bumping Darrell Williams up in your strategies?

Worthy of a rb4 roster spot, unless one is really weak at rb, then a rb3.  

[rallo 132]

4 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Look everyone justforbeer can do math. Everyone knows 170 m = 5 foot 6.9.

 

Poor CEH only 170 meters tall next to Emmitt and his 175 meters.

Go home dude you’re drunk.

Surely we mean cm... as anyone who is 170 meters would be a giant of a man! 

[justforbeer 39]

5 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Look everyone justforbeer can do math. Everyone knows 170 m = 5 foot 6.9.

 

Poor CEH only 170 meters tall next to Emmitt and his 175 meters.

Go home dude you’re drunk.

You were saying I’m drunk when you just said somebody’s 170 meters tall?  Dude would be over 550 feet tall, Nice.

Talk about domination at that height!  

Take your personal attacks somewhere else, Clearly your statements say a lot more about you than they do about me.

[justforbeer 39]

10 hours ago, AxeElf said:

I had to look that up in the Internet Dictionary:

"you got owned" - I disagree with you.

I don't believe they will put Clyde in that situation.  If they need a pass blocker, they'll have another RB in on the play.  If they need a pass catcher, they'll utilize Clyde in the manner for which he was drafted.

Just about Every third down he needs to be able to stay in on a blitz, Because of an audible, So what are you saying?

You can’t leave a rookie in the backfield on third down? That’s what we’ve been saying this whole time!

[LoOnAtIk 75]

1 hour ago, justforbeer said:

You were saying I’m drunk when you just said somebody’s 170 meters tall?  Dude would be over 550 feet tall, Nice.

Talk about domination at that height!  

Take your personal attacks somewhere else, Clearly your statements say a lot more about you than they do about me.

Attack?

 

You could’ve left it alone when I said you’re splitting hairs. I gave you 2 different websites that have CEH listed at 5’8” but since YOU claim I’m making things up, sure we can continue. Link me where he’s listed at 170 cm because I haven’t seen it yet. LSU and combine both have him at 5’8’”.

 

Imagine thinking he’s too slow or too small for the NFL that’s laughable. 
 

Do you consider Andy Reid a good coach? Why would he WASTE a premium pick on someone that’s too small or too slow? When he literally could’ve picked any other rookie RB.

 

If he gets hurt he gets hurt, but injuries can happen to anyone. Look at Carson, Conner, Gurley for example. All bigger than CEH and possibly faster but they struggle to stay healthy.

 

His floor might be lower than some other RBs in redraft but his ceiling is absolutely the #1 overall RB. Just because he plays for KC and because Damien opted out. 
 

The people on here scared to draft him at his current ADP are the same ones that laughed at the idea of Saquon going top 5 as a rookie. It’s not necessarily all about skill but also situation. We knew Saquon was gonna ball and we knew the giants were bad. This is slightly different in that WE KNOW KC WILL BE REALLY GOOD.

[AxeElf 787]

1 hour ago, justforbeer said:

You can’t leave a rookie in the backfield on third down? That’s what we’ve been saying this whole time!

That's why I don't understand why everyone is arguing with me.

Clyde's pass protection skills are a moot point, since his purpose isn't to pass protect, it's to receive passes.

[cmh6476 751]

1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

That's why I don't understand why everyone is arguing with me.

Clyde's pass protection skills are a moot point, since his purpose isn't to pass protect, it's to receive passes.

that is the reason Darwin Thompson really didn't play a lick in 2019, though.

[AxeElf 787]

2 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

that is the reason Darwin Thompson really didn't play a lick in 2019, though.

Indeed.  He has a role which requires him to pass protect better than he was able to do.

Plus he wasn't as good when the bullets were live as he looked against second-teamers in camp, so there's that.