The Last Dance

[Reality 2,710]

I'm sure you guys are watching but, I didn't see a thread on it.

I grew up a Bulls fan and Scottie Pippen was my favorite player so this fell right in my wheelhouse... This show has been phenomenal so far, the behind the scenes footage is top notch and the interviews even better.

ESPN is killing it with this one.

[shotsup 830]

I never got into Blackball. 

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

15 minutes ago, Reality said:

I'm sure you guys are watching but, I didn't see a thread on it.

I grew up a Bulls fan and Scottie Pippen was my favorite player so this fell right in my wheelhouse... This show has been phenomenal so far, the behind the scenes footage is top notch and the interviews even better.

ESPN is killing it with this one.

I watched some today...you are correct sir!!

[vuduchile 1,940]

I was the GM of Niketown in Chicago during that time so this show brings back some memories. 
 

MJ, Pippen and Rodman were like gods in that city back then.   I used to have to escort those guys thru the stockrooms to pick out  gear so they wouldn’t get mobbed on the sales floor.  
 

2 of MJ’s nephews worked for me in those stockrooms.   They were sh!tty workers but people were always sucking up to them and the Nike execs made it clear that they were untouchable. 

I went to a ton of Bulls games in those last 2 seasons.   The last one was game 5 of the ‘98 finals when they lost at home.   I was in the nosebleeds but was convinced I would be there to witness history.  Of course, it wasn’t meant to be.   

They went on to win game the series in game 6 in Utah.  
 

Anyway.  I’m really enjoying the show.  
 

My boys (10 and 12) are watching with me and have literally been shooting hoops for 4-5 hours/day since the first episode.  

[jerryskids 5,169]

Yep, in my wheelhouse as well.  While not a Bulls fan, I moved to Phoenix in 89 from Boston after college.  Met my wife then who was from Detroit.  This has all been great. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

Jordan said he thought people would think he was a dik after seeing this. The exact opposite. All I’ve seen is a guy who busted his ass to win and wasn’t a crybaby about it. I don’t know why he thought that. Maybe because this country has turned into a bunch of puzzies and they wouldn’t like seeing him be a meanie? 

[supermike80 1,285]

Well done doc so far.  Haven't seen ep 3 yet, just got caught up on the first 2.  I lived in Chicago then and Jordan was of course a god.  That's why when I hear this gibberish about Lebron being better I tell them to eat sh!t.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

Brings back so many memories. Great backstories show how completely dysfunctional even the greatest franchises are.  Interesting how you can show highlights and say how great they were and yet it barely scratches the surface on how great they really were. It does show very clearly for the younger generation that every basketball player since MJ can, at best, claim the title of second best player of all time. 

[KSB2424 3,082]

It’s great.  

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I will never get over Krause wanting to break up that team to move onto his next dynasty. He did do a great job putting those teams together, so he thought he could just put together a new dynasty. 

Also Reinsdorf comes off as an even bigger ass job.

[nzoner 936]

11 hours ago, shotsup said:

I never got into Blackball. 

Same,I've never intentionally watched a minute of the NBA.

[listen2me 23 1,534]

Never really had a team for basketball.  People my age all rooted for the 90s Bulls teams. (Too young for earlier MJ) then I was a big KG fan so I rooted for the T wolves.

Great series.  Im thankful for it as there is nothing else to watch.

[listen2me 23 1,534]

9 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Jordan said he thought people would think he was a dik after seeing this. The exact opposite. All I’ve seen is a guy who busted his ass to win and wasn’t a crybaby about it. I don’t know why he thought that. Maybe because this country has turned into a bunch of puzzies and they wouldn’t like seeing him be a meanie? 

I think the parts he is talking about are coming up.  Around 6th episode.  Just showing him really going in on guys at practice.

But I agree with you.  MJ aint perfect and Im sure was an ass.  But I admire his passion for winning and accountability.  I admire his work ethic and not being afraid to hurt anyones feelings.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

Nah, no interest in basketball.

[Utilit99 4,099]

12 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Jordan said he thought people would think he was a dik after seeing this. The exact opposite. All I’ve seen is a guy who busted his ass to win and wasn’t a crybaby about it. I don’t know why he thought that. Maybe because this country has turned into a bunch of puzzies and they wouldn’t like seeing him be a meanie? 

I heard some NBA dude on a sports radio talk show say that Jordan didn't want it to come out for the past many years because he didn't want people to see him today as not that guy anymore.

And, 'vagina hat wearing' does describe half this country, so... 

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

6 hours ago, nzoner said:

Same,I've never intentionally watched a minute of the NBA.

You missed out then. When Jordan was dominating, the game was so much better. The game was very physical and teams actually played defense. The things Jordan did were unreal. How a human could accomplish the things he did is still baffling

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

8 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

You missed out then. When Jordan was dominating, the game was so much better. The game was very physical and teams actually played defense. The things Jordan did were unreal. How a human could accomplish the things he did is still baffling

Today’s biggest NBA star is  Curry. He does not compare. And neither does LeBron. Not even close. 

[Big Blue 06 195]

I always hated MJ and the Bulls.  I grew up a huge Knicks fan, so they were always public enemy number one.  That said, huge respect for him and his work ethic.

[jerryskids 5,169]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Today’s biggest NBA star is  Curry. He does not compare. And neither does LeBron. Not even close. 

Lebron is close.  I give MJ the nod because he was uber competitive, and Lebron doesn't seem to be to that same degree.  Kobe was more in the MJ vein.  But Lebron is close.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

6 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Lebron is close.  I give MJ the nod because he was uber competitive, and Lebron doesn't seem to be to that same degree.  Kobe was more in the MJ vein.  But Lebron is close.

I’d have to say that LeBrons supporting cast for his championships was far superior to Jordan’s. Jordan took Rodman off the junk pile and made him a star. LeBron could never do that. And Jordan didn’t just team up with other superstars. He had one on his team and went with it. 

[jerryskids 5,169]

22 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’d have to say that LeBrons supporting cast for his championships was far superior to Jordan’s. Jordan took Rodman off the junk pile and made him a star. LeBron could never do that. And Jordan didn’t just team up with other superstars. He had one on his team and went with it. 

I disagree.  Jordan had Pippen (top 50 all time) which Lebron has never had.  Rodman was an elite rebounder.  Paxson and Kerr were elite sharpshooters.  Grant and Kukoc were top PFs.  

Lebron had a box of rocks his first go-round in CLE.  Obviously Wade and Bosh in Miami, but Bosh, cmon... Back to CLE, Kyrie was elite, and now AD in LA, but those aren't near the complete teams that Krause put together in Chicago.  Multiple times.  Which reminds me, IMO the most interesting thing I've seen in this series is the dynamic with Krause.  He was the short fat kid that wanted to be loved and the elite athlete gazelles wouldn't have it.  Payback is a biotch apparently. 

[vuduchile 1,940]

46 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’d have to say that LeBrons supporting cast for his championships was far superior to Jordan’s. Jordan took Rodman off the junk pile and made him a star. LeBron could never do that. And Jordan didn’t just team up with other superstars. He had one on his team and went with it. 

Lebron isn’t in MJ’s league IMO.   It seems like the winning formula in today’s NBA requires 3 or more superstars.   

 

Those Bulls teams had Jordan, Pippen and a handful of decent role players.  
 

Paxson and Kerr were 3 pt shooters, Rodman was a rebounder and defender.  Cartwright and Longley were big bodies in the middle.  Kukoc had talent but didn’t work hard and Grant evolved into a serviceable forward.  
 

Then they had other fill-in guys that gave them some decent minutes.  Harper, Randy Brown, BJ Armstrong, Wennington, Buechler, etc.  

They worked hard and played well as a team.  Phil and Tex deserve some credit for implementing the triangle offense and forcing the players to stay in it.  
 

But MJ and Pippen together was a once in a lifetime combo.   Those 2 on the same team is akin to Magic and Bird playing on the same team.  They were the 2 best all around players in the league at that time.  
 

Put Lebron and Giannis on the same team and that would be comparable.  

[nzoner 936]

3 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

You missed out then. When Jordan was dominating, the game was so much better. The game was very physical and teams actually played defense. The things Jordan did were unreal. How a human could accomplish the things he did is still baffling

I vaguely remember a few Sportscenter clips and the like,I was just turning 30 when he went on his run.I'm sure not having interest as a teen  or young man in the sport is why I paid no attention.Guess I'll have to write it off as a few other things in my life as one that got away.

[KSB2424 3,082]

I’m a Tar Heel.  I’m 44 years old.  1982 National Championship was the first sports game I remember, watched it with my dad.  Saw Jordan live in Carmichael in 1984 against Wake Forest, rode in the truck with my Dad and one of his buddies, I was 9 years old. Some of my first and greatest sports memories.  
 

Loved MJ, but James Worthy was my idol and went pro first to the Lakers so I became a Lakers fan in the 80’s.   I respected Bird and the boys, Isiah, the Microwave, Dumars and them crazy mofo’s.  As much as I loved MJ I rooted for the Lakers, not only was Worthy there but so was Sam Perkins.  
 

This series is amazing TV.  Jordan rarely let’s anyone “in” and he is sipping on scotch, smoking a Cuban and just letting it all spill.  Love it.

[KSB2424 3,082]

It’s coming soon:  What does he say about why he played baseball?   His dad being murdered?   Did he really have the flu during the “flu game” or was he hungover?
 

Man, can’t wait.  

[KSB2424 3,082]

Also, I hate people saying LeBron wouldn’t have thrived in the 80’s early 90’s.   Even Steph Curry. They didn’t grow up in that type of game, if they did it would have been different.  You adjust your game to the reality of the day.  LeBron is 6’8 255 pounds.  He’s Karl Malone with Magic Johnson’s PG skills.  If he grew up in the 80’s he would have BEEN an enforcer.  Its  why comparing players from different era’s is such a futile exercise.  
 

Curry would’ve had a tougher time but guys like Reggie Miller, Mark Price, all thrived.  And Curry would have been better than both.  

[listen2me 23 1,534]

I havent read the whoke thread.

I love MJ and admit to being a Lebon hater of sorts.

Lebron is great.  He isnt MJ

The East while Lebron was around was the worst conf in sports for 20 years and it probably wasnt close. Under.500. He is very lucky he came back vs GS with Cavs.  I give him all thr credit for that comeback but he needed that bad.

Jordan at 40 on the wizards still avg 20.  

Lebron is too scared to enter a dunk contest.

Lebron hops teams.

Dont compare them.  No one is saying Scottie wasnt really good.

[listen2me 23 1,534]

Add on

Mj took prime off.

Mj saw defense and zone

My went to college

Mj wasnt gifted those measurables 

Mj took last shot.  We have seen Lebron not in key situations 

[listen2me 23 1,534]

1 hour ago, KSB2424 said:

Also, I hate people saying LeBron wouldn’t have thrived in the 80’s early 90’s.   Even Steph Curry. They didn’t grow up in that type of game, if they did it would have been different.  You adjust your game to the reality of the day.  LeBron is 6’8 255 pounds.  He’s Karl Malone with Magic Johnson’s PG skills.  If he grew up in the 80’s he would have BEEN an enforcer.  Its  why comparing players from different era’s is such a futile exercise.  
 

Curry would’ve had a tougher time but guys like Reggie Miller, Mark Price, all thrived.  And Curry would have been better than both.  

No coach lets Steph chuck from 30.  Steph may not work on that game in those days.  Like you say its weird to compare because different games demanded different playing styles 

 

[Reality 2,710]

12 hours ago, KSB2424 said:

This series is amazing TV.  Jordan rarely let’s anyone “in” and he is sipping on scotch, smoking a Cuban and just letting it all spill.  Love it.

This is why this thing is so good.  The interviews are incredible, 100% authentic and I can't get enough of it.

[vuduchile 1,940]

It’s as good or better than any of the 30 for 30’s they’ve done.  
 

As far as sports docs, I’d rank this 2nd only to Ken Burns’ Baseball. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

3 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

It’s as good or better than any of the 30 for 30’s they’ve done.  
 

As far as sports docs, I’d rank this 2nd only to Ken Burns’ Baseball. 

The U remains as the best 30-30 ever. But this is real good. 

[Drizzay 644]

I got about an episode and a half in and lost interest.

[Bier Meister 1,512]

I have really enjoyed it.  I was a big NBA fan in the 80's and most of the 90's (i started getting fed up with strikes and lockouts).  I loved watching all of the teams doing battle and the different styles of play.  bull/pistons/knicks always grabbed me.

[jerryskids 5,169]

This past weekend with the 93 championship (Bulls beating the Suns on that Paxson 3 in game 6) was painful.  

But the series has been awesome.  We forgot about it and missed the first episode of the night (included the Dream Team stuff), I plan to go back and watch.

[Cloaca du jour 2,064]

I remember Jordan over Ehlo...soul crushing.

Did you guys know Lambeer was a sleestack in land of the lost?

[FeelingMN 273]

I've always respected MJ....but I've come away with a new found respect for Pippen.  

Besides this series I haven't watched too much in the way of old sports.  Past Super Bowls and World Series?  Meh.....but if they rebroadcast every Finals of the 90s I'd catch every second.  Loved that time in basketball history.

[jerryskids 5,169]

23 hours ago, Cloaca du jour said:

Did you guys know Lambeer was a sleestack in land of the lost?

I don't quite recall that but something seems faintly familiar... anyway, what I remember hearing about him was that he came from money. A lot of money.  Like more family money than NBA salary.  Of course this was back in circa 1990, not today when 12th men make 8 figures.

[vuduchile 1,940]

Why are MJ’s eyes so yellow during some of those at-home interviews?

Liver disease?

[Bier Meister 1,512]

50 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

Why are MJ’s eyes so yellow during some of those at-home interviews?

Liver disease?

Looks baked