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kilroy69

Rescinding the Tag on Dak

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The cowboys should rescind the franchise tag on Dak. They signed Dalton and should use him as a cheap bridge to a future qb they draft and can control for 5 years on a rookie contract. 

Winston signed for cheap and Cam is still out of work. Both of those QBs are as good or better than Dak. Where is he going to go in a flooded qb market if they take the tag back? Who out there is gonna pay him 35 mil a year?

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I don't think they do this as I believe they want Dak to be around for a long time and this would probably be a relationship breaker but it's on the table as an option.

 

If you have room to stash Dalton as end on of the bench player in dynasty or superflex do it. 

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I think Dak is a better Qb. 

 

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How are Cam and Winston better than Dak?

It's not 2015 Cam Newton, it's the 2020 Cam Newton. There's a reason he's not been signed. He's so broken down that nobody thinks he will hold up any more.

Winston you don't know if he's going to be in jail next week or on the exempt list. Even if he's not, he turns the ball over 2 or 3 times a game.

Dak is much better than both.

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I actually dont think Dak  is a great QB.  he is a decent QB playing in a great situation.

that  great  situation would  mean:

1)  top  3  O-line

2) a stud RB  who  is good enough that  teams actually fear what happens if they go  after the QB and  get burned by a run.

3)  a stud WR

I truly think if you put Dak in Cincy last year, he would have crashed  and burned.

I was actually surprised cincy benched Dalton.  his stats  were  actually  ok.  and considering  the  O line was  in shambles and the  Defense  was a  mess  and Daltons receiivers  were hurt more than they were  healthy  I felt it was a result that  was very good given the situation.

I do think Dalton is a legit threat to Dak's  job if he underperforms, and can easily step in if Dak demands to be paid like a top 3 QB.

this is a big time insurance policy.

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7 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

The cowboys should rescind the franchise tag on Dak. They signed Dalton and should use him as a cheap bridge to a future qb they draft and can control for 5 years on a rookie contract. 

Winston signed for cheap and Cam is still out of work. Both of those QBs are as good or better than Dak. Where is he going to go in a flooded qb market if they take the tag back? Who out there is gonna pay him 35 mil a year?

 I agree with this. It's the top end of the going rate for a proven franchise QB. Prescott is not proven so far but is getting close. Why he won't accept what he was offered it beyond me. It's not like that Cowboy defense is ready to win a title even though the offense is looking up.

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I think the Cowboys made a very good move in picking up Dalton, and he does give the Cowboys more leverage as it pertains to signing Dak, but I don’t agree that Dalton is the better Qb. 

I think Dak is the better of the two, and Dak is a better Qb then either Cam and Winston, is Dak worth 35 mil a season, I don’t think anyone is worth that much personally, I think it’s simply ridiculous how much money someone gets paid to play a game, but the owners pay them so it’s not my problem, but Dak isn’t worth 35 mil a season, and I think the cowboys would be fine without Dak and with Dalton at Qb. 

Just don’t think Dalton is a better Qb, and I don’t think he ever was, he had a pretty good wr to team up with when he played with the Bengals.  

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Lets compare Dak to a journeyman QB in Ryan Fitzpatrick that is low cost and would be a bridge to a rookie QB they could control for 5 years. 

 

Dak was 30/11 for 4900 yards and is expected to ask for a record contract on 'AMERICAS TEAM" surrounded by weapons. 

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick was 20/13 for 3500 yards and costs 5.5 mil surrounded by Parker and practice squad players on any other team.

Switch teams and they are the same qb except pay expectations. 

Dak had a QBR of 70 and Fitz had one of 66 

 

Dalton had a SHITT season last year for a hollowed out Bengals team and still passed for 3400 yards on 16/14 . Put him on the stacked team that is the cowboys and he easily tosses 25 tds while allowing them to not KILL their cap space for years to come. If jones signs Dak to a long term 35 mil a year contract it will be a sign they do not understand the changing landscape of the NFL. If you can't get a STAR qb on a 5 year rookie contract you ARE going to be behind the 8ball unless you have a top 5 qb for years to come. 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, polecatt said:

How are Cam and Winston better than Dak?

It's not 2015 Cam Newton, it's the 2020 Cam Newton. There's a reason he's not been signed. He's so broken down that nobody thinks he will hold up any more.

Winston you don't know if he's going to be in jail next week or on the exempt list. Even if he's not, he turns the ball over 2 or 3 times a game.

Dak is much better than both.

I agree with this... to an extent.  I think your comments about Winston being in jail or exempt list is WAY off.  Yeah, he was a dummy in college and why I had major concerns about his decision making and immaturity, but since being the NFL, he's been fine on those fronts.  The suspension he got in 2018 were for infractions he made in the off-season before his rookie season even started.  The odds of him being in jail or exempt list is practically 0.

That said, I agree with you on the turnovers.  Talent-wise, Dak can't hold Winston's jock, but football IQ-wise, it's the opposite.  I think Dak is a solid QB, but he's not the kind of guy I'd pay $35M+ to.  I'd keep Dak for this year, if I'm Dallas, then I'd try to trade him in the off-season or let him walk next year.  I'd also re-sign Dalton and give him the job next year.  Dak isn't special.  He's a safe QB that's played on a team that's protected him amazingly and surrounded him with a ton of talent.  A "solid" QB can do great in that environment and Dalton is a "solid" QB.  Why pay Dak $35M+ for years when you can get similar production from a guy making $20M per year?

To note, if a coach is able to get Winston's ego in check and fix his decision making issues, Winston will become an elite QB.  Dak can never reach that level.  He just doesn't have that skill set.

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17 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

The cowboys should rescind the franchise tag on Dak. They signed Dalton and should use him as a cheap bridge to a future qb they draft and can control for 5 years on a rookie contract. 

Winston signed for cheap and Cam is still out of work. Both of those QBs are as good or better than Dak. Where is he going to go in a flooded qb market if they take the tag back? Who out there is gonna pay him 35 mil a year?

I'd keep Dak then move on from him next season.  I don't think he's worth the money that he wants.

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34 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'd keep Dak then move on from him next season.  I don't think he's worth the money that he wants.

With Dalton in house Dak has lost all his leverage. If they jerked the tag who else is gonna pay him? Is there another team that is gonna pay him 35 mil a year? Is there another team that would take him on at this point? Most have their starting qbs or do not have the cap space. If they took the tag back he would languish on the market like Cam. 

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41 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I agree with this... to an extent.  I think your comments about Winston being in jail or exempt list is WAY off.  Yeah, he was a dummy in college and why I had major concerns about his decision making and immaturity, but since being the NFL, he's been fine on those fronts.  The suspension he got in 2018 were for infractions he made in the off-season before his rookie season even started.  The odds of him being in jail or exempt list is practically 0.

That said, I agree with you on the turnovers.  Talent-wise, Dak can't hold Winston's jock, but football IQ-wise, it's the opposite.  I think Dak is a solid QB, but he's not the kind of guy I'd pay $35M+ to.  I'd keep Dak for this year, if I'm Dallas, then I'd try to trade him in the off-season or let him walk next year.  I'd also re-sign Dalton and give him the job next year.  Dak isn't special.  He's a safe QB that's played on a team that's protected him amazingly and surrounded him with a ton of talent.  A "solid" QB can do great in that environment and Dalton is a "solid" QB.  Why pay Dak $35M+ for years when you can get similar production from a guy making $20M per year?

To note, if a coach is able to get Winston's ego in check and fix his decision making issues, Winston will become an elite QB.  Dak can never reach that level.  He just doesn't have that skill set.

I don't know man, guys that have a proclivity for sexual assault don't generally just get better. What's he's been accused of, more than once, goes way beyond being young and dumb. If he's moved past that, great, I just wouldn't have anything to do with him. I don't think it would surprise anyone at all if we were to wake up tomorrow and hear some woman or women saying, Jameis did this to me in a hotel room, Jameis did that to me in a night club, etc.

While, I agree, he's is an elite talent with a monster arm, he's been around for a few years. It's not like he's still some rookie learning the NFL game. I'm not saying that can't change but he's just not somebody to bank on right now. He was a number one pick that after his rookie contract had trouble getting signed until he had to settle for basically the minimum as a back up. Dak was a 4th round pick, who at the end of his rookie contract is in line to potentially be the highest paid QB ever. That part is what makes or breaks a QB. The NFL has been full of guys with out of this world arm talent but never pan out because they can't grasp the mental aspect.

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11 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

With Dalton in house Dak has lost all his leverage. If they jerked the tag who else is gonna pay him? Is there another team that is gonna pay him 35 mil a year? Is there another team that would take him on at this point? Most have their starting qbs or do not have the cap space. If they took the tag back he would languish on the market like Cam. 

I think it would be a real jerk move to yank the tag in order to take advantage of the situation.  I mean, that's just not right.  The players (all of them), won't like that.  You're really putting your credibility on the line.  The next time the Cowboys tag a player, the player may not sign the tag and just hold out.


The Redskins could sign him.  With a new HC, Rivera doesn't have any loyalty to Haskins.  Plus, they have over $35M in cap space and can create more room to fit him in.  The Bears could sign him.  After the season, they could dump Trubisky and trade Foles. They'll need to be a little creative, but they could do it.  They could give him a low first year base number and guarantee an extra year or add a couple extra mil in subsequent years to make up the difference.  The Jags have like $20M in cap space.  They could go after Dak as well.  I'd never count out the Patriots.

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17 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think it would be a real jerk move to yank the tag in order to take advantage of the situation.  I mean, that's just not right.  The players (all of them), won't like that.  You're really putting your credibility on the line.  The next time the Cowboys tag a player, the player may not sign the tag and just hold out.


The Redskins could sign him.  With a new HC, Rivera doesn't have any loyalty to Haskins.  Plus, they have over $35M in cap space and can create more room to fit him in.  The Bears could sign him.  After the season, they could dump Trubisky and trade Foles. They'll need to be a little creative, but they could do it.  They could give him a low first year base number and guarantee an extra year or add a couple extra mil in subsequent years to make up the difference.  The Jags have like $20M in cap space.  They could go after Dak as well.  I'd never count out the Patriots.

If he had 5 teams that wanted him how would that be a jerk move?

 

If Rivera goes for a different qb than Haskins why wouldn't he bring in cam? 

 

The bears would be better of doing the same thing I'm suggesting. Using foles as a bridge because turbesky is a turd.

 

The jags would still need to find 10 to 15 million in cap space to get his 35 mil under the cap. 

 

The pats want to show the world that it's their system and any qb can be plugged in so they are gonna roll with their QBs they have now. 

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10 minutes ago, polecatt said:

I don't know man, guys that have a proclivity for sexual assault don't generally just get better. What's he's been accused of, more than once, goes way beyond being young and dumb. If he's moved past that, great, I just wouldn't have anything to do with him. I don't think it would surprise anyone at all if we were to wake up tomorrow and hear some woman or women saying, Jameis did this to me in a hotel room, Jameis did that to me in a night club, etc.

While, I agree, he's is an elite talent with a monster arm, he's been around for a few years. It's not like he's still some rookie learning the NFL game. I'm not saying that can't change but he's just not somebody to bank on right now. He was a number one pick that after his rookie contract had trouble getting signed until he had to settle for basically the minimum as a back up. Dak was a 4th round pick, who at the end of his rookie contract is in line to potentially be the highest paid QB ever. That part is what makes or breaks a QB. The NFL has been full of guys with out of this world arm talent but never pan out because they can't grasp the mental aspect.

I don't think he sexually assaulted that girl.  Back at the time of the draft, I agreed with you.  But after hearing everything that came out, I honestly think the girl was lying for a pay day.  Considering that he's married and has a kid, I'd be absolutely shocked if we heard about a woman making claims about Winston.

 

Believe me, I think the odds are severely low on Winston developing into someone special, but the talent is legitimately there.  He'll need to check his ego at door and I don't know if he can, long term.  I think it's been proven on the short term that it can work.  Look at what he did after Koetter benched him in 2018.  In the final 7 games of that season, he completed over 64% of his passes, averaged over 250 yards per game had a 13:4 TD/Int ratio, averaged about 7.9 ypa, with a 100+ passer rating.  If he spends a year, maybe even 2, sitting behind and learning from Drew Brees and Sean Payton, I can see a scenario where he Winston really learns how to be a QB and not just a thrower.

I agree with you on Dak, but I'll go back to what I said earlier... he's not special.  He's a solid player that has been surrounded by people who made  him better.  I think players like him can be replaced.  In fact, I think they did already, in Dalton.  I think they're about the same.  Why pay one guy $35M+ when you can pay an equivalent player $20M?  Dak, as a trade chip/free agent (via compensatory pick), has more value to the Cowboys on another team than on the Cowboys... NEXT year, not this year.  I definitely keep him for the 2020 season (if one happens).

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14 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

If he had 5 teams that wanted him how would that be a jerk move?

You literally just said that the Cowboys could use this move as a way to get leverage.  That's why I was saying would be a jerk move.  Removing a tag to give yourself bargaining leverage is a jerk move.

Sure, there may be teams that I think could be interested, but that doesn't mean they would be.

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Rescind the tag? Why? The cowboys think of themselves as contenders, would they be more or less likely to win this year with or without Dak? Besides, all the tag does is make it impossible for anyone else to sign him. If they rescind the tag, who is left to sign in free agency that would make up the difference between Dak and Dalton? Clowney? I'd rather have Dak then Dalton and Clowney, and they have Dalton regardless. A more interesting argument is should the Cowgirls give Dak a long term extension at 35 million per? As a Giants fan, I would be all in facing Dalton 2X a year in place of Dak. Prescott has finished in the top 5 2 of the last 3 years in Total QBR. But rescinding the tag which only locks them in for a year, is akin to malpractice... 

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1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You literally just said that the Cowboys could use this move as a way to get leverage.  That's why I was saying would be a jerk move.  Removing a tag to give yourself bargaining leverage is a jerk move.

Sure, there may be teams that I think could be interested, but that doesn't mean they would be.

I mean if they wanted him back they could use this as leverage.  I think they should move on. 

 

I would not want him back. I 💯 believe that the new model in the NFL is to draft a QB every 3 years. If you have pay mahomes you invest in your qb. Dak is not that.  

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1 minute ago, kilroy69 said:

I mean if they wanted him back they could use this as leverage.  I think they should move on. 

 

I would not want him back. I 💯 believe that the new model in the NFL is to draft a QB every 3 years. If you have pay mahomes you invest in your qb. Dak is not that.  

I completely agree with you on Dak and drafting a QB every 3 years.  Absolutely.  I just think you leverage idea would be a jerk move.  Here's the thing.  Besides, If they remove the tag and Dak does sign elsewhere, didn't they just give Dalton all of the leverage in 2021?  The Cowboys have a championship caliber team.  If Dalton has the leverage and forces the Cowboys to either pay him $35M+ or draft a rookie, you think that's a better situation?

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21 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I completely agree with you on Dak and drafting a QB every 3 years.  Absolutely.  I just think you leverage idea would be a jerk move.  Here's the thing.  Besides, If they remove the tag and Dak does sign elsewhere, didn't they just give Dalton all of the leverage in 2021?  The Cowboys have a championship caliber team.  If Dalton has the leverage and forces the Cowboys to either pay him $35M+ or draft a rookie, you think that's a better situation?

I am very willing to bet that Dalton would be willing to tack on another year for 7 mil to be a bridge.  If not there is cam sitting on the market. I just don't believe in saddling team with a qb contract that is going to eat up almost 20 percent of your overall salary cap. Unless you have a legit top 5 qb. Not one that has been priced into looking like one. 

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5 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

I am very willing to bet that Dalton would be willing to tack on another year for 7 mil to be a bridge.  If not there is cam sitting on the market. I just don't believe in saddling team with a qb contract that is going to eat up almost 20 percent of your overall salary cap. Unless you have a legit top 5 qb. Not one that has been priced into looking like one. 

Now you're playing with fire and musical chairs at QB while the rest of your team is championship level.  I think you're doing more harm than if you just overpaid Dak.

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5 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

With Dalton in house Dak has lost all his leverage. If they jerked the tag who else is gonna pay him? Is there another team that is gonna pay him 35 mil a year? Is there another team that would take him on at this point? Most have their starting qbs or do not have the cap space. If they took the tag back he would languish on the market like Cam. 

I agree, but I disagree with what you said that he would languish like Cam, I think there would be another team. 

I wouldn’t pay any of them 35mil

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1 hour ago, weepaws said:

I agree, but I disagree with what you said that he would languish like Cam, I think there would be another team. 

I wouldn’t pay any of them 35mil

I look at Jared Goff. The Rams thought they had the man there and if last year is any indication they probably sunk their team for the foreseeable future by locking a middle of the pack qb up to a long term extension that eats up a large portion of your cap. If Jones thinks Dak is the future he needs to pay him his money. If he is thinking things out long term I would let it be known I'm not paying any of you focks 35 mil a year. None of you. I will draft a rookie QB every year before I tie 20 percent into one player. 

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10 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

I look at Jared Goff. The Rams thought they had the man there and if last year is any indication they probably sunk their team for the foreseeable future by locking a middle of the pack qb up to a long term extension that eats up a large portion of your cap. If Jones thinks Dak is the future he needs to pay him his money. If he is thinking things out long term I would let it be known I'm not paying any of you focks 35 mil a year. None of you. I will draft a rookie QB every year before I tie 20 percent into one player. 

So where is the line of which QB's you would pay 35 million or so to? Mahomes, Wilson, Watson? Who else? Is Wentz worth the money, but Dak isn't? The bottom line if you have a franchise QB and you want to keep him that is the price. Regular folk can't conceive of that kind of skrilla, but that's what the market is. If you don't think Dalton is that much of a downgrade, then sure rescind the tag, let him walk. I would bet the house, the Cowboys don't see it that way... 

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35 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

I look at Jared Goff. The Rams thought they had the man there and if last year is any indication they probably sunk their team for the foreseeable future by locking a middle of the pack qb up to a long term extension that eats up a large portion of your cap. If Jones thinks Dak is the future he needs to pay him his money. If he is thinking things out long term I would let it be known I'm not paying any of you focks 35 mil a year. None of you. I will draft a rookie QB every year before I tie 20 percent into one player. 

Again I wouldn’t pay anyone 35 mil, but I think Dak has been better then Goff.  

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Whether a team chooses to pay their QB big money or not, you won't know if was right or wrong until after the results are in.  When you look at the Rams (Goff), Ravens (Flacco), Vikings (Cousins), you can clearly see that the team made poor decisions.  I'm not so sure the Eagles were wrong with Wentz and I'm not sure Dallas is right with Prescott, but we will see after the dust settles.  Teams are going to start realizing that paying their QB who isn't special, is a bad idea.  In today's game, decent QB's can be made to look really good if the team around them is really good... but the more you pay that "decent" QB, the less good that "really good" team gets - see Baltimore after they paid Flacco.  I think Dallas is doing things the right way, for now.  If they pay Prescott what Prescott thinks he's worth, then Dallas will end up like the Ravens after they paid Flacco.  The downside to that is that they won't have a Super Bowl to fall back on.

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