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stonewall

Any Chance That The NFL Completely Sinks?

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Of course, Covid-19 issues aside, there is an impending storm a brewin' over protests (particularly kneeling) during the national anthem. At this point, I think that we can all agree that mass-kneeling by players/teams is a foregone conclusion this season. We must also understand that, right or wrong, this activity is excessively repugnant to millions of their fans who buy the tickets/gear/TV packages/etc. 

Now, this could all be avoided with a little compromise (like choosing ANY other time to protest), and this could possibly also set a positive national precedent on resolving conflicts and issues, but battle lines have been drawn and nobody seems willing to budge. 

So, is it possible that the NFL, by alienating so much of their base in changing their stance on this issue, could not only lose massive proceeds but possibly be signing their own death certificate by wading into the turbulence? Seems far-fetched, I know....but after seeing things that I never dreamed that I would over the last month, nothing seems too crazy to consider anymore.

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Idk. We just abandon baseball and football? It's pretty sad that people are so sensitive. It's also sad that people have diluted the original message and kneel when it has lost its original impact. 

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Ohh, I suppose there is a chance... anything's possible, right? It's seems unlikely that a complete sinkage would happen. I think COVID-19 is more likely to have an immediate impact on game cancellation or schedule disruption than anything else.

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I don’t see any scenario where the league is completely sunk. Just a financial impact.

 

That was before, now the kneeling is going to be more accepted by some of the people against it so I see even less cause for concern over that. Coronavirus is the big issue that could impact a season or two, but also not sink the league. 

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I really don't think so. Football and Basketball will always have a place just do to the gambling aspects alone.

Now Baseball on the other hand. I think might be signing their own death sentence this year. No longer the nation's past time. They might be part of the top 3, but it's a distant 3rd. And that's in best of times. After this year, it's a 2 man race, with only a select few caring about any other sport.

 

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deflated ticket and parking prices would be cool

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Baseball will come back, if not this year, but next year.  There's a big enough core of baseball fans that won't ever leave.  As far as the NFL and NBA, they're ok going forward as long as people can bet on them.  As long as gambling exists, so will the NFL and NBA.  That said, I think the NBA is the biggest at risk.  I think people have been turned off by the NBA over the last 10 years.  If you look at the revenue generated by the NBA, it's tripled in that time frame... but it's tied directly to China.  If China pulls the plug on the NBA and never goes back, the NBA will be like the NHL... an afterthought.

China is the reason why people like LeBron James are the biggest hypocrites on the planet.  I think the public sees that.

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3 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

deflated ticket and parking prices would be cool

They'll probably go up.  They'll go up because people always back the players in owner/player disputes.  If you back players, you're backing higher salaries and perks for players.  That costs the owners money.  The only way to keep their profit margin to pay other fees and what not, is to raise prices.  Also, a lot of sports teams don't actually own the parking lots... they're owned by the city and/or private entities.

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You can probably cease the hyperventilating on BLM.

COVID, on the other hand, will seriously screw the NFL this year like every other major sporting, concert, entertainment, etc. type event.

But it’ll be back. The strong will survive. Those that were already teetering might be in big trouble but I wouldn’t put the NFL in that category.

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How can one tackle another players while practicing social distancing? 

I’m not sure how one can compromise on ones own feelings, unless they take the hypocrisy road, like mr Brees, and the NFL   

 

 

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1 hour ago, weepaws said:

How can one tackle another players while practicing social distancing? 

I’m not sure how one can compromise on ones own feelings, unless they take the hypocrisy road, like mr Brees, and the NFL   

 

 

2-hand touch with 6' extension posts on players arms. :dunno:

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Lol I guess so. 

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Bowling could become the new pastime again. No anthem I'm aware of, lots of social distancing then all the Lysol spray cans at the shoe counter. It's also fully inclusive. Screw it. I'm joining a women's fantasy bowling league.

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I think they do the National Anthem, don't know if it's televised though.  I participated in a few National Bowling events and they always had the National Anthem.  They were tournaments, but not a part of what you see on tv though.

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21 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think they do the National Anthem, don't know if it's televised though.  I participated in a few National Bowling events and they always had the National Anthem.  They were tournaments, but not a part of what you see on tv though.

Shomer Shabbas!

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On 6/22/2020 at 10:36 AM, cmh6476 said:

deflated ticket and parking prices would be cool

you are dreaming.   if they need to limit attendance due to covid, the prices will go way up.

 

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3 hours ago, Ray_T said:

you are dreaming.   if they need to limit attendance due to covid, the prices will go way up.

 

You’re assuming demand remains the same. I really doubt it

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16 hours ago, IGotWorms said:

You’re assuming demand remains the same. I really doubt it

If there's limited attendance, the demand will go up because the supply will be down.  I don't think that's even debatable.

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1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

If there's limited attendance, the demand will go up because the supply will be down.  I don't think that's even debatable.

honestly, demand will drop.  some will stay home for fear of catching covid.   but lots will still want to go to the games.

for priices to go up all you need  is for the supply to drop by more than the demand.

if they reduce the stadium capacity to 1/3 or 1/2 that of normal then for prices to remain the same, the demand will need to drop by the same amount.

i honestly dont see that happening. 

with no movies, no other sports no concerts for months, the first sporting events  will have such robust demand I think it will be unreal.

 

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49 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

honestly, demand will drop.  some will stay home for fear of catching covid.   but lots will still want to go to the games.

for priices to go up all you need  is for the supply to drop by more than the demand.

if they reduce the stadium capacity to 1/3 or 1/2 that of normal then for prices to remain the same, the demand will need to drop by the same amount.

i honestly dont see that happening. 

with no movies, no other sports no concerts for months, the first sporting events  will have such robust demand I think it will be unreal.

 

If the supply drops to 33% or 50%, demand won't drop that far.  There's a 0% chance that prices go down and while they may stay the same, the odds of prices going up are much greater.  That said, I think it all comes down to what teams need to keep the salary cap manageable for next year.  That is what will control ticket costs... not supply and demand.  I don't think the NFL wants a big drop in the salary cap or negotiations.

Realistically, there are MILLIONS of people that are most teams market.... and only 40,000 seats.  Lets say that the average demand is only 100k (which we know is drastically low).  If it drops 75%, that's still 25k.  If a venue only can hold 12 to 20k, the demand is still higher than the supply.

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1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Lets say that the average demand is only 100k (which we know is drastically low).  If it drops 75%, that's still 25k.  If a venue only can hold 12 to 20k, the demand is still higher than the supply.

lol

Name an NFL stadium that only holds 12k to 20k fans.

(Soldier Field is the smallest NFL stadium with 61,500 seats.)

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1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

lol

Name an NFL stadium that only holds 12k to 20k fans.

(Soldier Field is the smallest NFL stadium with 61,500 seats.)

I didn't say that's all they hold (the part you failed to quote said how many seats I said they had), I was saying that's why they may only be allowed to have.  I picked a random number.  Not all stadiums hold 60k.  Even if you want to say the average is 65k, my point still remains that they may only be allowed 33% to 50% capacity so you're talking about 20 to 30k.

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If the NFL were to sink, I don't think it would be due to any one specific issue but a number of things that add up. It would most likely be due to major financial mismanagement by the league and teams, which would probably be due to several factors, not some sort of single issue like the players kneeling. If they overspend and then ratings drop due to numerous things like rule changes, protests, too many non football gestures, lawsuits, etc. the league could possibly get in serious financial trouble. If such a thing were to happen, would the government throw them a lifeline? Maybe, maybe not.

It could certainly happen, there have been bigger, more bulletproof organizations than the NFL that tanked. That said, I think there's a very small chance that happens any time soon.

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13 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I didn't say that's all they hold

Yes, that's actually EXACTLY what you said...

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

If a venue only can hold 12 to 20k...

...but I understand now that you meant to say if a venue was only allowed to permit entry to 12k to 20k fans.  Only filling every 3rd-4th seat seems pretty ludicrous, but at least it makes more sense than a football stadium holding less than most NBA arenas.

17 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Not all stadiums hold 60k.

Not all stadiums, no, but all NFL stadiums do.  As I mentioned, Soldier Field is the smallest at 61,500.

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Fine, I picked a random number of 40k, let's say that the average is 60k.  That doesn't  change the point about a stadium that may only have 20k.  Sure, the higher end would be 30k, not 2... aren't we splitting hairs at that point?

Chicago's market has 3.2M people.  If only 5% of that market buys tickets, that' 160k.  If they have a 75% reduction of demand from that number that want tickets, that's 40k.  If the stadium holds 60k, but they're only allowed 30k, isn't the demand still higher than the supply?  That is my point.

I think politics will play a role in this.  I think areas that have a higher Republican percentage will have a higher demand for tickets and a higher capacity allowance by their government than Democrat area's.

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58 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Fine, I picked a random number of 40k, let's say that the average is 60k.  That doesn't  change the point about a stadium that may only have 20k.  Sure, the higher end would be 30k, not 2... aren't we splitting hairs at that point?

You don't seem to understand that I wouldn't have said anything at all if it was more clear that you meant the ALLOWED capacity of a stadium could be 12k-20k.  I'm not trying to split hairs about anything; I was correcting what appeared to be a gross underestimation of NFL stadium capacity.

If I wanted to split hairs, I would point out that the average capacity can't be 60k if the smallest stadium in the league holds 61.5k--because that doesn't really matter here.

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On 6/22/2020 at 10:40 AM, TBayXXXVII said:

Baseball will come back, if not this year, but next year.  There's a big enough core of baseball fans that won't ever leave.  As far as the NFL and NBA, they're ok going forward as long as people can bet on them.  As long as gambling exists, so will the NFL and NBA.  That said, I think the NBA is the biggest at risk.  I think people have been turned off by the NBA over the last 10 years.  If you look at the revenue generated by the NBA, it's tripled in that time frame... but it's tied directly to China.  If China pulls the plug on the NBA and never goes back, the NBA will be like the NHL... an afterthought.

China is the reason why people like LeBron James are the biggest hypocrites on the planet.  I think the public sees that.

Not sure I agree. Baseball popularity has been declining for years and although yes there a core group of fans, it is nowhere near as popular as the NFL.

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1 hour ago, Buttmonkey said:

Not sure I agree. Baseball popularity has been declining for years and although yes there a core group of fans, it is nowhere near as popular as the NFL.

Revenue tells a different story.

 

Quote

"According to a report by Forbes, the MLB grossed a record $10.7 billion in revenue for the 2019 season, an increase from the $10.3 billion the prior year."

 

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No. The NFL is interesting even when they aren't playing. No other sport is.

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The lost season should remind these athletes how lucky they are.

I am ok with the NFL being cancelled this year.

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30 minutes ago, Skinny_Bastard said:

The lost season should remind these athletes how lucky they are.

I am ok with the NFL being cancelled this year.

They won't see it that way.  They'll see it as them being screwed out of a years salary by the league... even if the government prevents them from playing.

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I was going to stop watching but recently got woke. I realized calling Tracy Chapman Buckwheat my whole life was wrong. Probably buy a Kap old Jersey.      

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I for one won’t be happy to see the nfl or any sport canceled, that would mean  that  the virus is still around. 

I would like to see no mask, and sports, and schools and businesses, and life like we once enjoyed it,  now that would be a blessing. 

I want to see the world open up again, and everyone breathing and congregations, and people shopping and smiling, I’m already tired of people turning someone in for not wearing a mask, and that’s been taking place. 

To see one say they would be ok with a cancellation of sports, or the nfl, is being ok with the virus.  

Not me, I pray everyone stays healthy and the Lord removes this virus.  

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On 6/23/2020 at 2:09 PM, TBayXXXVII said:

I think they do the National Anthem, don't know if it's televised though.  I participated in a few National Bowling events and they always had the National Anthem.  They were tournaments, but not a part of what you see on tv though.

You are that good as a bowler? I was in a league for years but had to bow out on my team as I moved away for work. They are all still at it years later. I still play fantasy football with the same guys, and one of them on the team (John) has an average of 210 over this past year. Crazy good. A few of us were chatting about it and another friend I have who is still also on the team told a story when last season in the league, the dude John had 11 strikes in a row, and on the twelfth ball, guttered it. :lol: John didn't appreciate the laughter too much. He just kept explaining how it slipped from his hand. :lol: Man, I miss the days on that team. But I know they mellowed out a lot these days. The bowling alley on league night was our heavy drinking and heavy gambling nights. Surprisingly, our team was pretty good despite it all as we had 2 guys average in the 190s and 2 in the 180s. 

We didn't really win the league much because we would hang around our averages all the time and no one would go nuts each week to carry us. The other teams managed their averages low when they were cruising in a match up, and would play above them when needed to win.  

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7 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

You are that good as a bowler? I was in a league for years but had to bow out on my team as I moved away for work. They are all still at it years later. I still play fantasy football with the same guys, and one of them on the team (John) has an average of 210 over this past year. Crazy good. A few of us were chatting about it and another friend I have who is still also on the team told a story when last season in the league, the dude John had 11 strikes in a row, and on the twelfth ball, guttered it. :lol: John didn't appreciate the laughter too much. He just kept explaining how it slipped from his hand. :lol: Man, I miss the days on that team. But I know they mellowed out a lot these days. The bowling alley on league night was our heavy drinking and heavy gambling nights. Surprisingly, our team was pretty good despite it all as we had 2 guys average in the 190s and 2 in the 180s. 

We didn't really win the league much because we would hang around our averages all the time and no one would go nuts each week to carry us. The other teams managed their averages low when they were cruising in a match up, and would play above them when needed to win.  

LOL, no, not that good.  I have a 194 average.  My son is better, has a 217 (d!ck head).  Anyway, every person is allowed to enter those tournaments, you don't need to be a pro, amateur, or sanctioned.  The difference is that your bowling on oil patterns like the pros.  I bowled in 7 national tournaments, 70 games, and my average in those 70 games is a 167.  My son has a 181 in 40 games.  You need to be great to bowl high scores on those lanes because you have to constantly be moving and constantly be hitting a specific spot within a half inch over and over again.  The guys you see on tv probably would easily average something like a 250+ in regular league bowling.

Pete Weber bowled in one of our local tournaments once, with a standard league house shot.  In 9 games he had four 300's, a 299, a 298, and three 279's.

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4 minutes ago, Matt Mueller said:

IDK but maybe the NFL will allow me to purchase a season pass to watch games without cable. 

Well, you could have someone in every market set up a VCR to video tape every game and they can mail them to you.  Otherwise, I don't know how else it could be done.  I can hook you up for Eagles games.  :thumbsup:

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