Bucs sign Lesean McCoy

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

8 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Well... kinda.  I was hoping maybe you'd offer up a $50 bet or something, but I can understand why you wouldn't.

If I'm wrong, it'll be because Tampa doesn't win as many games as I'm expecting (11+), and/or Jones misses games.

Take this website for example, Mike last updated his projections last Thursday (before the Bucs signed McCoy).  He has Jones, Vaughn, and Ogunbowale with 326 total rush attempts.  Last year, the Bucs had 337 between Jones, Barber, and Ogunbowale.  Based on the number of carries, plus his projection for Brady, lead me to believe that he's thinking that the Bucs are going to be a bad team.  He's projecting the Bucs to have 5521 total yards (which based on last year, would put the Bucs at 19th in the NFL.  He has them scoring about 312 points, which last year would put them 24th.  Teams with those metrics won an average of 6 games.

In his case, I think his projecting of Jones getting 14 carries a game is reasonable, given that he thinks the Bucs are a 6-win team.  I don't agree with that, but it's at least reasonable based on his premise.  Now, adding McCoy into the mix, my guess is that he'll reduce Jones' and Vaughn's numbers and give them to McCoy.  I don't think McCoy will change his outlook on the team as McCoy really won't make that big of an impact.

So, if you're of the mindset that the Bucs are going to be a 6 or 7 win team and broke down where you think the touches are going to go, then I'd at least give your opinion credence.  But to say, Jones won't get 20 touches, and leaving it at that, your opinion is meaningless.

[jrokh 567]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

But to say, Jones won't get 20 touches, and leaving it at that, your opinion is meaningless.

If his opinion is meaningless, and totally wrong as you imply, why don't you take his $50 dollars then? Don't write a check your butt can't cash....

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

33 minutes ago, jrokh said:

If his opinion is meaningless, and totally wrong as you imply, why don't you take his $50 dollars then? Don't write a check your butt can't cash....

Because I don't like bets with stipulations.  As I said, I'm basing my opinions on the assumption that Jones and the Bucs are healthy.  Jones may play all 16, but if Brady goes down or gets sick, or what have you, then Gabbert is not going to command the same respect as Brady and that will alter the game plan/game outcomes.

 

Also, I never said or implied that he was wrong.  Opinions aren't right or wrong, they're either based or baseless.  His opinion is baseless because there's nothing behind it other than just saying it.  I'd accept an opinion, even if I disagreed with it, if there was some rationale.

 

I've posted how the Bucs ran the ball 25 times per game in wins.  I posted that I believe the Bucs will win 11+ games.  I posted how I believe the Bucs will spread the ball around.  If anyone thinks differently, then say what brings you to that conclusion.

[jrokh 567]

6 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Because I don't like bets with stipulations.  As I said, I'm basing my opinions on the assumption that Jones and the Bucs are healthy.  Jones may play all 16, but if Brady goes down or gets sick, or what have you, then Gabbert is not going to command the same respect as Brady and that will alter the game plan/game outcomes.

So in other words if everything goes right then your prediction will come to fruition, but if not, then its not that you were wrong but uncontrollable factors came into play that messed it up. got it...

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

1 minute ago, jrokh said:

So in other words if everything goes right then your prediction will come to fruition, but if not, then its not that you were wrong but uncontrollable factors came into play that messed it up. got it...

I think that's the case for EVERY prediction.

[jrokh 567]

47 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think that's the case for EVERY prediction.

Not really. honest, and self-aware people usually just say I got it wrong, without qualifiers and excuses....

[kcBlitzkrieg 17]

On 8/3/2020 at 2:42 AM, weepaws said:

Thinking more like R Moss. 

or T.O.

[AxeElf 787]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Also, I never said or implied that he was wrong.  Opinions aren't right or wrong, they're either based or baseless.  His opinion is baseless because there's nothing behind it other than just saying it.  I'd accept an opinion, even if I disagreed with it, if there was some rationale.

But to say, Jones won't get 20 touches, and leaving it at that, your opinion is meaningless.

I didn't leave it at that.  I gave you a reason why Jones probably won't get 20 touches per game; to wit, that only the most elite workhorse RBs get 20 touches per game.  In case you missed it, let me quote it for you (again)...

On 8/2/2020 at 8:47 PM, AxeElf said:

20 touches per game is a LOT.  Only 10 RBs last year exceeded 20 touches per game:  McCaffrey, Fournette, Elliott, Cook, Henry, Carson, Chubb, Bell, Barkley and Jacobs (and only the first six exceeded 21; only one exceeded 23).

Where do you see Jones falling on that list?

Arians' offense emphasizes downfield passing, not plodding up the middle two out of every three downs.

You seem to be saying that my opinion is "baseless" unless I propose some other number for Jones' touches this season, but I don't see how saying, "No, Jones will only get 17 touches per game this year," is any more rational of a counter-argument than the simple argument from statistics that says 20 touches per game is unlikely.

By the way, you still haven't told me where you see Jones falling on that list.

1 hour ago, jrokh said:

So in other words if everything goes right then your prediction will come to fruition, but if not, then its not that you were wrong but uncontrollable factors came into play that messed it up. got it...

Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking; @TBayXXXVII is giving an estimate for Jones' touches in a perfect world of his own creation, but the fact that he won't back up his perfect-world estimate is a strong suggestion that he understands that it won't translate to the real world--and fantasies about a player's potential are a bad place to start when estimating value relative to other players.

[weepaws 2,452]

I’ll say 15 to touches per game, I think with McCoy it’s going to hurt some , not in rushing att, I think Jones we’ll get more work in the run game, but now they Bucs have two Rbs  they can use in the passing game, and Vaughn will take some of those rush att left behind by the Barber.  

I just don’t think Jones is a player that can be productive touching the ball 20 plus times per game.  

But that’s my opinion, and if I’m wrong I won’t be apologizing, it’s ff , and please don’t take my advice, I don’t even watch the game. 

 

[Kopy 489]

Well, good luck TBay. We all like to think we know our own teams the best. So we'll see what happens. I do urge you to keep an open mind on Vaughn though. What he did behind that jv high school of an online was incredibly impressive. He more than passes the eyeball test from my point of view

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

1 hour ago, Kopy said:

Well, good luck TBay. We all like to think we know our own teams the best. So we'll see what happens. I do urge you to keep an open mind on Vaughn though. What he did behind that jv high school of an online was incredibly impressive. He more than passes the eyeball test from my point of view

 

I'm fine with Vaughn, I just know Arians.  He's very slow in working rookies into the mix.  On top of that, Vaughn has had no off-season at all and no time to work out with the team.  I don't think he gets much until midway through the season.

I think Jones is a very capable back.  He's not special, but he can certainly do the job.  McCoy is good at his job, being a pass catcher.  I think he very well could get anywhere between 60 to 80 receptions (100+ target potential), this year.  I think both McCoy and Vaughn will get carries, but I don't think they'll get a lot.  I think Tampa will be running the ball about 25 to 30 times per game, because I think they'll be winning a lot of games.  With that premise, I don't envision more than about 7 to 10 attempts combined between McCoy, Vaughn, and Ogunbowale.  If the Bucs average 25 attempts, and the other 3 get 7, that's leaving 18 for Jones.  I also think Jones still gets about 3 pass targets a game, 2 receptions... bringing him to 20 touches.

Honestly, it's all about volume, and nothing more.  I see Tampa with 11+ wins this year.  I see them running the ball a lot because they'll be ahead a lot.  Vaughn looks like a future replacement to Jones, if Jones doesn't pan out.  I don't discount that possibility.  That said, anything that happens with their roles, won't really happen until 2021.  If we're talking dynasty/keeper, I'm certainly not buying Jones.  In re-draft, I'd be perfectly happy with him as my locked in RB2.  If people want to let him slip, great... I'll jump on the talent in other positions and take Jones a round or so earlier.  Keeper/dynasty?  I'm not taking him until round 8 or later, as an RB4.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

23 hours ago, AxeElf said:

I didn't leave it at that.  I gave you a reason why Jones probably won't get 20 touches per game; to wit, that only the most elite workhorse RBs get 20 touches per game.  In case you missed it, let me quote it for you (again)...

You seem to be saying that my opinion is "baseless" unless I propose some other number for Jones' touches this season, but I don't see how saying, "No, Jones will only get 17 touches per game this year," is any more rational of a counter-argument than the simple argument from statistics that says 20 touches per game is unlikely.

By the way, you still haven't told me where you see Jones falling on that list.

Yeah, that's basically what I was thinking; @TBayXXXVII is giving an estimate for Jones' touches in a perfect world of his own creation, but the fact that he won't back up his perfect-world estimate is a strong suggestion that he understands that it won't translate to the real world--and fantasies about a player's potential are a bad place to start when estimating value relative to other players.

Why do you think how OTHER TEAMS disperse the ball is justification as to how the BUCS will disperse the ball?

If it makes you happy, I don't see any reason why that from a touches standpoint... and even production-wise, Jones can't put up similar numbers to Chris Carson.  Carson, is by no stretch, a star player.  He's a capable player in a advantageous situation.

There, I answered your question, even though it has absolutely nothing to do with the Bucs.  I gave you a REASONS why Jones will get the touches I said he'd get.  Just saying "no he won't" isn't really a counter-argument.  Generally, a counter-argument needs some kind of pertinent information.

 

If you want to pretend that not every prediction made is based on the ideal situation, then go ahead.  That's not the real world.  I'm pretty sure that everyone who's taking McCaffrey #1 is expecting him to play 16 games.  I'm also pretty sure that when everyone sits down at their draft, they're expecting every one of their expected starters to play all 16 games.  They'll also expecting that their supporting cast to play 16 games.  So don't sit there and try and make me out to be an anomaly.

 

[kcBlitzkrieg 17]

29 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Why do you think how OTHER TEAMS disperse the ball is justification as to how the BUCS will disperse the ball?

If it makes you happy, I don't see any reason why that from a touches standpoint... and even production-wise, Jones can't put up similar numbers to Chris Carson.  Carson, is by no stretch, a star player.  He's a capable player in a advantageous situation.

There, I answered your question, even though it has absolutely nothing to do with the Bucs.  I gave you a REASONS why Jones will get the touches I said he'd get.  Just saying "no he won't" isn't really a counter-argument.  Generally, a counter-argument needs some kind of pertinent information.

 

If you want to pretend that not every prediction made is based on the ideal situation, then go ahead.  That's not the real world.  I'm pretty sure that everyone who's taking McCaffrey #1 is expecting him to play 16 games.  I'm also pretty sure that when everyone sits down at their draft, they're expecting every one of their expected starters to play all 16 games.  They'll also expecting that their supporting cast to play 16 games.  So don't sit there and try and make me out to be an anomaly.

 

This is a confusing thread...just so I'm clear, you are saying that predictions are ALL based on ideal aka perfect situations?  

Why would everyone drafting expect all of their starters to play all 16 games?  and there bench???  Maybe a FF rookie but anyone with half a brain that's been playing this game for any significant amount of time cannot expect this.  I'm not trying to be difficult but if that's what you mean I'd have to vehemently disagree.   

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

18 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

This is a confusing thread...just so I'm clear, you are saying that predictions are ALL based on ideal aka perfect situations?  

Why would everyone drafting expect all of their starters to play all 16 games?  and there bench???  Maybe a FF rookie but anyone with half a brain that's been playing this game for any significant amount of time cannot expect this.  I'm not trying to be difficult but if that's what you mean I'd have to vehemently disagree.   

 

Simply, when someone makes a projection for Christian McCaffrey, using Mike's as an example: 242 rushes/1161 yards/10 TD's... 107 rec/884/4 TD's, he's assuming that McCaffrey is playing all 16 games, right?  When you draft McCaffrey, you're expecting him to play 16 games, right?  You understand that he might not, but when you're drafting him, you're expecting a certain level of production... you're expecting him to play 16 games.  Am I wrong?

[weepaws 2,452]

55 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

This is a confusing thread...just so I'm clear, you are saying that predictions are ALL based on ideal aka perfect situations?  

Why would everyone drafting expect all of their starters to play all 16 games?  and there bench???  Maybe a FF rookie but anyone with half a brain that's been playing this game for any significant amount of time cannot expect this.  I'm not trying to be difficult but if that's what you mean I'd have to vehemently disagree.   

 

When I draft a player I expect for them to play in all 16 games, but I also know that might not be a possibility, a injury could happen, but if a player has a real trend of not playing in 16 games then I would lower my expectations of his production based on numbers of games I think he will play in. 

When I rank players I rank them based on how many points I think they will produce for my ff team weekly, expect for one weekend, their bye week, so of a player as a history of not being able to play a whole season I wouldn’t rank him higher then others who I expect to do so. 

Thanks. 

And if I’m wrong , I won’t apologize, just thought that one statement was so funny.  

Sorry. 

[AxeElf 787]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

There, I answered your question...

Sort of... So I guess you are saying you see Jones moving ahead of Carson on the list...?

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Just saying "no he won't" isn't really a counter-argument.  Generally, a counter-argument needs some kind of pertinent information.

The fact that it's pretty rare for a RB to average 20 touches per game in today's NFL IS pertinent information.  For some reason, you don't want to acknowledge it, but the fact remains.

[kcBlitzkrieg 17]

32 minutes ago, weepaws said:

When I draft a player I expect for them to play in all 16 games, but I also know that might not be a possibility, a injury could happen, but if a player has a real trend of not playing in 16 games then I would lower my expectations of his production based on numbers of games I think he will play in. 

When I rank players I rank them based on how many points I think they will produce for my ff team weekly, expect for one weekend, their bye week, so of a player as a history of not being able to play a whole season I wouldn’t rank him higher then others who I expect to do so. 

Thanks. 

And if I’m wrong , I won’t apologize, just thought that one statement was so funny.  

Sorry. 

This is what I was looking for yes.... I could not get Will Fuller out of my mind as I was reading and typing my last reply.  

[kcBlitzkrieg 17]

Arian Foster poster child.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

24 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Sort of... So I guess you are saying you see Jones moving ahead of Carson on the list...?

The fact that it's pretty rare for a RB to average 20 touches per game in today's NFL IS pertinent information.  For some reason, you don't want to acknowledge it, but the fact remains.

You asked where I thought he fit in.  I said he'd be comparable to Carson.  How is that NOT telling you where he'd fit in.  I do have him ahead of Carson actually.  I won't draft him there though.  Thanks to people like you, I can wait a round... maybe 2.

 

As for your last statement, we'll have to agree to disagree.  I don't think any one team cares how another team uses their players when it comes to using their own.

[weepaws 2,452]

27 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

Arian Foster poster child.  

Few seasons back in the late 90es early 00 that Fred Taylor was on that poster.  

 

[Matt Mueller 146]

Which RB would you rather own next year?   Just based on these stats from 2019 over 16 games  

179 attempts-818 yards, 3 tds     50 receptions-509 yards-3 tds

 

172 attempts- 724 yards, 6 tds    31 receptions, 309 yards- zero tds

 

 

 

[AxeElf 787]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You asked where I thought he fit in.  I said he'd be comparable to Carson.  How is that NOT telling you where he'd fit in. 

Not sure why you added the last statement (which is really more of a question).  My assertion that you "sort of" answered the question was more because you didn't address anyone but Carson--though I did acknowledge that you seemed to be saying you would take Jones over Carson.

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

As for your last statement, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Disagreeing with a fact doesn't negate it.  It is a fact that it is relatively rare for a RB to average 20 or more carries per game, especially in today's NFL.  Of the 152 RBs who scored fantasy points last year, only 10 did it.  It has nothing to do with one team copying another's playing style; it's just statistics.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

14 hours ago, Matt Mueller said:

Which RB would you rather own next year?   Just based on these stats from 2019 over 16 games  

179 attempts-818 yards, 3 tds     50 receptions-509 yards-3 tds

 

172 attempts- 724 yards, 6 tds    31 receptions, 309 yards- zero tds

 

 

 

I'd take the top guy.  He's clearly used more in the passing game more.

[weepaws 2,452]

19 hours ago, Matt Mueller said:

Which RB would you rather own next year?   Just based on these stats from 2019 over 16 games  

179 attempts-818 yards, 3 tds     50 receptions-509 yards-3 tds

 

172 attempts- 724 yards, 6 tds    31 receptions, 309 yards- zero tds

 

 

 

I’ll take Miles Sanders over R Jones. 

He’s simply the better player. 

But you need to let everyone know, ppr or non? 

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

45 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I’ll take Miles Sanders over R Jones. 

He’s simply the better player. 

But you need to let everyone know, ppr or non? 

PPR or non in this instance is a non-issue.  The guy getting more receptions is going to get more yards and more TD chances.  It's not like it's the receptions that are putting him over the top.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

20 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Not sure why you added the last statement (which is really more of a question).  My assertion that you "sort of" answered the question was more because you didn't address anyone but Carson--though I did acknowledge that you seemed to be saying you would take Jones over Carson.

Disagreeing with a fact doesn't negate it.  It is a fact that it is relatively rare for a RB to average 20 or more carries per game, especially in today's NFL.  Of the 152 RBs who scored fantasy points last year, only 10 did it.  It has nothing to do with one team copying another's playing style; it's just statistics.

In 2018, 6 RB's averaged 20+ touches... last year it was 10.  Tell me, how on Earth did the number go up?  Didn't those 4 teams know that only 6 teams could have a RB that can average 20+ touches per game?  I guess it's really 7 as only 3 of those 10 guys last year did it in 2018.  Lamar Miller did it 2016.  How come he never did it any other year in his career?  I'm guessing it was because of the situation and not because only a few teams had a 20 touch RB the year before.

 

[kcBlitzkrieg 17]

22 hours ago, weepaws said:

Few seasons back in the late 90es early 00 that Fred Taylor was on that poster.  

 

Ah yes, I remember that Gator well....Fragile Fred 

[weepaws 2,452]

46 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

PPR or non in this instance is a non-issue.  The guy getting more receptions is going to get more yards and more TD chances.  It's not like it's the receptions that are putting him over the top.

Makes a difference to me, I know that Sanders will be used more in the passing game in a ppr league that would give him a upgrade, but not always the case in a non ppr. 

Now Sanders had 50 rec last season, but with B Scott last season showing that he can handle that duty, I would expect for Sanders to lose some of those rec in the passing game to Scott, and Jones I think will be the rb1 based in the running game for the Bucs, so if Sanders does indeed lose both rec and yards that might make it a difference on who one might draft this season based on those last season stats, so if you think Jones will see a increase of 8 touches per game, that would give him 20 per game, and if I think Sanders will gain more rushing att but lose touches to Scott in the passing game , then in a non ppr or ppr those touches can truly make a difference in ff production? I know the question was based on last seasons stats you would we draft, but knowing the players and teams they are on makes a difference, and that’s why I looked up whom those stats belonged to before giving my answer, other wise the question is simply the one with more points. But one needs to look deeper when it comes to ff, that makes a difference.  So to me non ppr or ppr indeed is important to know. Maybe not for you, and I think that’s great, and I have no problem with that.  

Sanders last year had 50 rec and let’s say Mostert had 14 rec, in non ppr they both avg 10points per game, but in a ppr Sanders avg 2 more points per game based on his rec, but Mostert scores more tds, so to me, there is a difference and it’s important to know what type of scoring system ones in before giving a answer.  

Thanks n

[weepaws 2,452]

14 minutes ago, kcBlitzkrieg said:

Ah yes, I remember that Gator well....Fragile Fred 

Yes, but a darn good player.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

24 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Makes a difference to me, I know that Sanders will be used more in the passing game in a ppr league that would give him a upgrade, but not always the case in a non ppr. 

Now Sanders had 50 rec last season, but with B Scott last season showing that he can handle that duty, I would expect for Sanders to lose some of those rec in the passing game to Scott, and Jones I think will be the rb1 based in the running game for the Bucs, so if Sanders does indeed lose both rec and yards that might make it a difference on who one might draft this season based on those last season stats, so if you think Jones will see a increase of 8 touches per game, that would give him 20 per game, and if I think Sanders will gain more rushing att but lose touches to Scott in the passing game , then in a non ppr or ppr those touches can truly make a difference in ff production? Maybe  

Sanders last year had 50 rec and let’s say Mostert had 14 rec, in non ppr they both avg 10points per game, but in a ppr Sanders avg 2 more points per game based on his rec, but Mostert scores more tds, so to me, there is a difference and it’s important to know what type of scoring system ones in before giving a answer.  

Thanks n

I'm only referring to these two specific RB's and other guys like Mostert or the rest of the RB field.  I don't think Scott, Clement, or any other RB will take many touches away from Sanders.  I also think the Eagles are going to increase there passing game involving RB's.  Their WR's aren't healthy/reliable.  I can see Scott and Clement getting a bump in the passing game in lieu of crappy WR's while Sanders stays the same.  I think Sanders has a shot at 1700+ total yards and 10+ TD's and be a top 7 RB this year.  I don't think Jones will be that high.  I see Jones at around 1500 yards and 8 TD's and being a high RB2... somewhere around RB15.  I think what will separate the two will be the result of the receptions and not so much the receptions themselves.  I can see both of them around 1200 yards rushing with 8 TD's, but I think Sanders has twice as many receptions leading to twice as many yards and more TD.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

Looks like Colin Cowherd is a Tampa homer (by some peoples' standards):

 

 

[Matt Mueller 146]

The only reason I brought  up Sanders vs RoJo is that I was actually really suprised that only 20 catches and 200 yards seperated their finishes last year.

 

Same number of tds 6.  Same number of rushing attempts.

 

Certainly Sanders came on late in the year and his 2nd half split is much better than his total season but so did Rojo to a degree.

 

My basic point is that everyone seems to love Sanders a 23 year old rb on a good team who performed pretty well.

 

Well Rojo's numbers, 23 himself, look pretty similar.  

[Matt Mueller 146]

Ronald Jones last 8 games of the season.    Rojo had 10 plus carries in 6 of 8 games.      Had 23 receptions.   

[AxeElf 787]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

In 2018, 6 RB's averaged 20+ touches... (irrelevant babble)

Further evidence that averaging 20+ touches is reserved for the elite few.

The chances of a pedestrian RB like Jones averaging 20+ touches in a pass-happy offense over the course of a season are exceedingly slim, and, to repeat my original observation, if you think Ronald Jones is going to average 20+ touches in 2020, you're dreaming.

[Matt Mueller 146]

Why does everyone think Ronald Jones is pedestrian?  

Ekler averaged 4.2 YPC and lead the league with 10.8 YPR among running backs.

 

Ronald Jones averaged 4.2 YPC and had 10. YPR among running backs.

 

The league leaders of YPR among running backs in 2019 were

Ekler 10.8 

David Johson 10.3

Miles Sanders 10.2

Ronald Jones 10.0

Dalvin Cook 9.8  

Aron Jones 9.7

Duke Johnson 9.3

[AxeElf 787]

1 hour ago, Matt Mueller said:

Why does everyone think Ronald Jones is pedestrian?

I don't know that EVERYONE thinks Ronald Jones is pedestrian, but those who do would probably point to his relative lack of opportunities.  You can average 6 yards per carry, but if you only get 3 carries, you won't lift your fantasy team to victory.

Another faction might point to his inability to unseat Peyton Barber as the team's lead RB in his first two seasons.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Further evidence that averaging 20+ touches is reserved for the elite few.

The chances of a pedestrian RB like Jones averaging 20+ touches in a pass-happy offense over the course of a season are exceedingly slim, and, to repeat my original observation, if you think Ronald Jones is going to average 20+ touches in 2020, you're dreaming.

LOL, and I'm the spouting irrelevant babble?  

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

I don't know that EVERYONE thinks Ronald Jones is pedestrian, but those who do would probably point to his relative lack of opportunities.  You can average 6 yards per carry, but if you only get 3 carries, you won't lift your fantasy team to victory.

Another faction might point to his inability to unseat Peyton Barber as the team's lead RB in his first two seasons.

Jones in his rookie year was a dipstick. He didn't put in the necessary work to get on the field more.  He put the ball on the ground too much, didn't learn the playbook, and was terrible at pass blocking and receiving.  Blame certainly falls on his shoulders for that.

However, last year had more to do with Winston than either Barber or Jones.  Jones really improved his game in passing situations... but Barber was still better.  Jones was the better runner though.  Easily.  Behind an offensive line that ranked 23rd (according to footballoutsiders.com - if anyone has a better site, I'd be happy to read what they have), in run blocking... Jones has 23 broken tackles (ranked 11th in total), to Barber's 8.  Jones also averaged 4.2 ypc while Barber was a 3.9.  Oh, another note about the broken tackles, only Kamara, Jones, and Damian Willams had a better attempt/brk percentage than Jones.  To note, footballoutsiders.com has those 3 teams OLines ranked 1, 5, & 28 respectively.

Technically, Jones did beat out Barber.  Barber started the first 7 games, but Jones started the last 9. Jones also got 36.47% of the snaps compares to Barber's 29.79%. 

At the risk of repeating myself, Tampa had to throw the ball a lot because they were losing a lot.  I don't believe that will be the case.  Because of that, Tampa will likely be running the ball more than last year.

[AxeElf 787]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

LOL, and I'm the spouting irrelevant babble?  

You may look like it, but no; you're only the ONE spouting irrelevant babble.

[AxeElf 787]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Technically, Jones did beat out Barber.

I figured you would probly quibble about that.  Ok, I'll even grant you the point.  When they needed to get a yard or two, though (i.e., in goalline situations), they still turned to Barber a lot, but yeah, in overall usage, Ronald Jones did manage to just edge out a premier talent like Peyton Barber by the end of his second season.

Next stop, 20+ touches per game!