Systemic Racism

[Baker Boy 1,478]

7 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Is there racism in America? I.e are individuals racist in America?  Yes.

is there still Institutional racism in America? Not so sure, working out any examples. Hence this particular thread.

That is for you to decide from the examples used by the people who use the term. 

[Strike 3,949]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

I can’t find where you stated that in the OP. 

Nowhere in that post does he say he wants what "people" believe to be systemic racism.  He is asking for examples of ACTUAL systemic racism.  How is that not clear to you?

[Strike 3,949]

Just now, Baker Boy said:

That is for you to decide from the examples used by the people who use the term. 

I just need to know if you're still playing "pretend" or if this is really you posting. 

[Baker Boy 1,478]

7 minutes ago, Strike said:

Nowhere in that post does he say he wants what "people" believe to be systemic racism.  He is asking for examples of ACTUAL systemic racism.  How is that not clear to you?

Give me the quote not your perception. He said he wants examples I gave him example, does it make them invalid because they aren’t mine. I also quoted the OP where you refuse to.

[Baker Boy 1,478]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

I just need to know if you're still playing "pretend" or if this is really you posting. 

Give me the quote from the OP to back up what you are saying. It should be easy.

[FeelingMN 273]

23 hours ago, Casual Observer said:

"North Carolina held its 2014 general election, the third election under SL 2013–381."  See the 2013 right after the SL?  That's the year of the legislation.  See the discussion of voting in 2014 under SL 2013-381?  They can't be talking about black voting under restrictions in 2014 for legislation that went into effect in 2016.  That's just a reading comprehension fail.  There's later legislation that NC enacted to comport with a State Constitutional amendment that are pretty much the same as SL 2013-381.  The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals also ignored the evidence of lack of racial impact in declaring that legislation unconstitutional.

 

Quote

As the district court found, the day after the Supreme Court issued Shelby County, the “Republican Chairman of the [Senate] Rules Committee[] publicly stated, ‘I think we’ll have an omnibus bill coming out’ and . . . that the Senate would move ahead with the ‘full bill.’” N.C. State Conf. of the NAACP v. McCrory, 2016 WL 1650774, at *9 (M.D.N.C. Apr. 25, 2016). The legislature then swiftly expanded an essentially single-issue bill into omnibus legislation, enacting it as Session Law (“SL”) 2013-381.2

See the .2 after SL 2013-381?  And this wasn't pretty much the same as SL 2013-381.....there were provisions in there that affected African Americans with surgical precision......and these bills no longer had to be screened by DOJ because Shelby was repealed.  

This thing hasn't been in effect so there's no way you can argue it hasn't affected the black vote.

Quote

 

Last month, a three-judge federal appeals panel struck down the North Carolina law, calling it “the most restrictive voting law North Carolina has seen since the era of Jim Crow.” Drawing from the emails and other evidence, the 83-page ruling charged that Republican lawmakers had targeted “African Americans with almost surgical precision.”

Gov. Pat McCrory (R) filed an emergency petition to restore the law, but a deadlocked Supreme Court on Wednesday refused his stay request, meaning the law will not be in effect for the Nov. 8 election. Because the lower court did not offer specific guidelines for reinstating early voting, however, local election boards run by Republicans are still trying to curb access to the polls.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-the-republican-creation-of-the-north-carolina-voting-bill-dubbed-the-monster-law/2016/09/01/79162398-6adf-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html

[Casual Observer 597]

18 minutes ago, FeelingMN said:

 

See the .2 after SL 2013-381?  And this wasn't pretty much the same as SL 2013-381.....there were provisions in there that affected African Americans with surgical precision......and these bills no longer had to be screened by DOJ because Shelby was repealed.  

This thing hasn't been in effect so there's no way you can argue it hasn't affected the black vote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/inside-the-republican-creation-of-the-north-carolina-voting-bill-dubbed-the-monster-law/2016/09/01/79162398-6adf-11e6-8225-fbb8a6fc65bc_story.html

You're out of your depth on this one.  I've actually read these cases.  The bills were pretty much identical.  The District Court, which heard the evidence in the first place, found that Black voter participation went up, which I cited for you above.  The case went to the 4th Circuit of Appeals, where a 3 judge panel found the law to be unconstitutional, ignoring that evidence.

[MedStudent 56]

On 8/27/2020 at 12:40 PM, KSB2424 said:

I see this all the time mentioned as a catch-all but I can’t quite put my finger on where it applies in 2020.  1960? Sure of course, but today?

1.  I’m really trying to understand and am not being facetious.

2.  Is Systemic the same as Institutional Racism.

 If so, to me at least, that means the laws and rules of the land are “racist” as in, education, buying a house, voting, healthcare, employment etc. 

Ever since the Civil Rights movement there are not only Constitutional Amendments but all sorts of laws barring such discrimination.  You cannot legally do that stuff in America.  The “Institution” has spoken.  
 

Of course individuals can be racist.  Human beings are flawed by nature and as long as people look different, have different religions there will always be a certain level of division.  It’s been that since the beginning of time.  Newsflash: it always will too. We are all flawed humans. 
 

But systemic racism, in America, in 2020?  I need some examples.

I didn't get a chance to read through all 20 pages. 

Systemic Racism is more encompassing than Institutional racism. It encompasses society as a whole.

Predatory lending still exists in America. Yes, there are laws preventing it but the banks that perpetuate it have deep pockets and they can just pay off the few defendants that can afford a lawyer. Maybe stronger laws with jail time should be considered. 

Police shooting unarmed blacks or choking them when they are already under control is systemic racism. I realize it doesn't happen very often and the vast majority of cops are OK. But once is too much. Better police training and non-tolerance for even racist remarks by police should be practiced. I know I had to go through diversity training at the hospital. 

 

 

[Strike 3,949]

4 minutes ago, MedStudent said:

I didn't get a chance to read through all 20 pages. 

Systemic Racism is more encompassing than Institutional racism. It encompasses society as a whole.

Predatory lending still exists in America. Yes, there are laws preventing it but the banks that perpetuate it have deep pockets and they can just pay off the few defendants that can afford a lawyer. Maybe stronger laws with jail time should be considered. 

Police shooting unarmed blacks or choking them when they are already under control is systemic racism. I realize it doesn't happen very often and the vast majority of cops are OK. But once is too much. Better police training and non-tolerance for even racist remarks by police should be practiced. I know I had to go through diversity training at the hospital. 

 

 

Statistically, how many black people per 1000 encounters with police are killed?  Same question about white people.  Do you think cops were justified in the Michael Brown shooting?

[MedStudent 56]

15 minutes ago, Strike said:

Statistically, how many black people per 1000 encounters with police are killed?  Same question about white people.  Do you think cops were justified in the Michael Brown shooting?

I don't know the answer to your first two questions but the rate will be skewed because blacks are pulled over or stopped an inordinate amount of times while whites are only stopped when they do something obviously wrong. A black male has a 1 in 1000 chance of being killed by a policeman. That is 2.5 times higher than a white male. 

In the Michael Brown case, I think the cop may have been justified. The evidence pointed that way and I agreed with the jury.

 

Good to see you Strike. I hardly ever agree with you but unlike most of the clowns on here you provide food for thought. BLS, ksb, and Jerry (prayers) are the others on here its good to see from the right. But fock this bored is now overloaded with fringe right Trump mimics with no skills. 

[Strike 3,949]

35 minutes ago, MedStudent said:

I don't know the answer to your first two questions but the rate will be skewed because blacks are pulled over or stopped an inordinate amount of times while whites are only stopped when they do something obviously wrong. A black male has a 1 in 1000 chance of being killed by a policeman. That is 2.5 times higher than a white male. 

In the Michael Brown case, I think the cop may have been justified. The evidence pointed that way and I agreed with the jury.

 

Good to see you Strike. I hardly ever agree with you but unlike most of the clowns on here you provide food for thought. BLS, ksb, and Jerry (prayers) are the others on here its good to see from the right. But fock this bored is now overloaded with fringe right Trump mimics with no skills. 

Where are these stats coming from? 

[MedStudent 56]

7 minutes ago, Strike said:

Where are these stats coming from? 

Its a research article from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the US. As such they explain their data sources and provide references. 

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

[Strike 3,949]

7 minutes ago, MedStudent said:

Its a research article from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the US. As such they explain their data sources and provide references. 

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

That link doesn't tell me anything.  It makes a bunch of assertions without supporting them.  And I'm not going to go read a boatload of referenced links to see if they're gaming things.  And, of course, they don't discuss whether the deaths are justified or not.  IOW, it's a pretty useless article.  Sorry.

[MedStudent 56]

8 minutes ago, Strike said:

That link doesn't tell me anything.  It makes a bunch of assertions without supporting them.  And I'm not going to go read a boatload of referenced links to see if they're gaming things.  And, of course, they don't discuss whether the deaths are justified or not.  IOW, it's a pretty useless article.  Sorry.

The article supports my statement. I didn't stipulate if the killings were justified or not. That would be very subjective and non-scientific. 

Its a peer reviewed article. The data is there. If you don't want to read into it then that's your prerogative. I prefer articles that show how they established their data as this one does. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

That link doesn't tell me anything.  It makes a bunch of assertions without supporting them.  And I'm not going to go read a boatload of referenced links to see if they're gaming things.  And, of course, they don't discuss whether the deaths are justified or not.  IOW, it's a pretty useless article.  Sorry.

If it doesn’t bring up the fact that blacks commit way more violent crimes than whites then it belongs in the trash. I assume it doesn’t because then that would destroy the narrative. The measure should be if whites get shot more or less while committing a crime.  But they can’t go there. 

[KSB2424 3,082]

3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

If it doesn’t bring up the fact that blacks commit way more violent crimes than whites then it belongs in the trash. I assume it doesn’t because then that would destroy the narrative. The measure should be if whites get shot more or less while committing a crime.  But they can’t go there. 

Blacks commit 51% of crime.  Therefore the total numbers of whites killed by police and blacks should be roughly equal.  
 

What are those numbers?

[Strike 3,949]

Just now, KSB2424 said:

Blacks commit 51% of crime.  Therefore the total numbers of whites killed by police and blacks should be roughly equal.  

But for the fact that there aren't just two races in this country, this is a great post!

[MDC 5,877]

Did KSB ever issue his final ruling on whether systemic racism exists?

[MedStudent 56]

24 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Blacks commit 51% of crime.  Therefore the total numbers of whites killed by police and blacks should be roughly equal.  
 

What are those numbers?

Lets establish the 51% of crimes number. Is that arrests in the US? Convictions? I have an FBI list from  that shows 70% of arrests were white and 27% black in 2016. 

[RLLD 3,455]

Can anyone point to a law, policy or anything where racism exists yet?

I know it is common to use statistics from behaviors as a proof point, but I am wondering which policy or law is an example....

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

1 hour ago, MedStudent said:

Lets establish the 51% of crimes number. Is that arrests in the US? Convictions? I have an FBI list from  that shows 70% of arrests were white and 27% black in 2016. 

Now do violent crimes. It’s silly not to. 

[iam90sbaby 2,120]

1 hour ago, MedStudent said:

Lets establish the 51% of crimes number. Is that arrests in the US? Convictions? I have an FBI list from  that shows 70% of arrests were white and 27% black in 2016. 

https://www.amren.com/archives/reports/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/

Very in-depth yet dumbed down article I think you'll be able to grasp.

Also remember Somalians are considered white to the US Census so any crime they commit falls in the white category and despite that 13/51 is still true.

[jonmx 1,558]

6 hours ago, MedStudent said:

Its a research article from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the US. As such they explain their data sources and provide references. 

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793

Kind of spun up stats which ignores the elephant in the room.  The leading cause by far of young black male deaths is being murdered by another black male. That is more than 10 times more likely than getting shot by a police officer.  So the odds of black male being murdered over their life by a non-police officer is in the neighborhood of 15 out of 1000.  If we really cared about black males we would be far more interested in reducing black on black crime.  And then guess what, the number of black males being killed by police would dramatically decline.  But instead we keep trying to solve a symptom than trying to solve the problem because it is more politically advantageous to do so.  Yeah, Democrats love blacks.....not so much.  

[RLLD 3,455]

18 hours ago, jonmx said:

Kind of spun up stats which ignores the elephant in the room.  The leading cause by far of young black male deaths is being murdered by another black male. That is more than 10 times more likely than getting shot by a police officer.  So the odds of black male being murdered over their life by a non-police officer is in the neighborhood of 15 out of 1000.  If we really cared about black males we would be far more interested in reducing black on black crime.  And then guess what, the number of black males being killed by police would dramatically decline.  But instead we keep trying to solve a symptom than trying to solve the problem because it is more politically advantageous to do so.  Yeah, Democrats love blacks.....not so much.  

 

1) You are correct.  The standard response is that such a statistic is true for any "group" so it does not matter.

2) This is not an issue that is topical, this is a reach back to an earlier time.  This is revenge for the police actions of the past 100 or more years.

3) AA's focking HATE accountability, laws, restrictions.....they want to be left alone to do what ever they want, and impeding that makes them hate others even more.

[Baker Boy 1,478]

On 9/2/2020 at 9:48 AM, MedStudent said:

Lets establish the 51% of crimes number. Is that arrests in the US? Convictions? I have an FBI list from  that shows 70% of arrests were white and 27% black in 2016. 

I think the stat he is referring to is violent crime and the number I saw was 53%. I think in this case we should be looking at resisting arrest as the primary factor. 
 

I know he said crime and he is wrong but the board expects you to understand he meant violent crime.

[edjr 5,547]

Saw a white dude walking down the street in my home town today wearing a Burn Loot Murder shirt.  I wanted to yell something but didnt. I have a new car after all

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

19 hours ago, jonmx said:

Kind of spun up stats which ignores the elephant in the room.  The leading cause by far of young black male deaths is being murdered by another black male. That is more than 10 times more likely than getting shot by a police officer.  So the odds of black male being murdered over their life by a non-police officer is in the neighborhood of 15 out of 1000.  If we really cared about black males we would be far more interested in reducing black on black crime.  And then guess what, the number of black males being killed by police would dramatically decline.  But instead we keep trying to solve a symptom than trying to solve the problem because it is more politically advantageous to do so.  Yeah, Democrats love blacks.....not so much.  

Nominee for post of the year.

[drobeski 3,061]

11 minutes ago, edjr said:

Saw a white dude walking down the street in my home town today wearing a Burn Loot Murder shirt.  I wanted to yell something but didnt. I have a new car after all

What would you yell ? 

[jonmx 1,558]

12 minutes ago, edjr said:

Saw a white dude walking down the street in my home town today wearing a Burn Loot Murder shirt.  I wanted to yell something but didnt. I have a new car after all

I would take it is a sarcastic insult of what BLM really stands for.   I guess he could be serious and be an Antifaguy....

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

Systemic Racism = Policies that Democrats endorse/write that negatively affect black people... and then blame it on Republican's when black people find out.  For example, there are claims that there is systemic racism in Baltimore.  Baltimore has not had a Republican mayor for over 50 years.  They've had a city council president since 1923... every one of them were Democrats.  They haven't had a Republican council member in the last 70... yet, it's the Republican's / white people's fault that the city sucks at every level and keeping the black man down.

ETA:  Sorry, had the 50 years and 70 years backwards.

[edjr 5,547]

10 minutes ago, drobeski said:

What would you yell ? 

BLM IS A HOAX

[edjr 5,547]

9 minutes ago, jonmx said:

I would take it is a sarcastic insult of what BLM really stands for.   I guess he could be serious and be an Antifaguy....

Oh no no no.. he had a BLM shirt on. I was making up the Burn Loot Murder part. My bad. That is what it SHOULD say

[RLLD 3,455]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Systemic Racism = Policies that Democrats endorse/write that negatively affect black people... and then blame it on Republican's when black people find out.  For example, there are claims that there is systemic racism in Baltimore.  Baltimore has not had a Republican mayor for over 70 years and not a single Republican council member in the last 50... yet, it's the Republican's / white people's fault that the city sucks at every level and keeping the black man down.

Correct. And in every instance, save for perhaps Nixon, where Democrat politicians step in with legislation it disproportionately harms AA's....

[jonmx 1,558]

11 minutes ago, edjr said:

Oh no no no.. he had a BLM shirt on. I was making up the Burn Loot Murder part. My bad. That is what it SHOULD say

It would take some guts to wear a Burn Loot Murder shirt.  Oh boy, would that stir up some . 

[edjr 5,547]

1 minute ago, jonmx said:

It would take some guts to wear a Burn Loot Murder shirt.  Oh boy, would that stir up some . 

In Baltimore. :d

[Hardcore troubadour 12,589]

On 9/2/2020 at 12:48 PM, MedStudent said:

Lets establish the 51% of crimes number. Is that arrests in the US? Convictions? I have an FBI list from  that shows 70% of arrests were white and 27% black in 2016. 

So you want to play the conviction game you say? You don’t. Half of murder cases in major cities are “open cases”.And that’s being generous.  I guess those victims didn’t die or maybe there are white supremacists going into Baltimore and Chicago and doing them?  You’re out of your league kiddo. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

Just now, edjr said:

In Baltimore. :d

Or Chicago.

[edjr 5,547]

  MedStudent is back? 

[Strike 3,949]

1 minute ago, edjr said:

  MedStudent is back? 

Only a matter of time until Big Pete returns too.

[edjr 5,547]

Wait till the next season of survivor, whenever that is. the only whites will be trans or have no gender