Axe Elf Breaks the Seal

[AxeElf 787]

7 hours ago, justforbeer said:

Sorry Axe...

Never be sorry! The wllingness to exhibit your deficiencies in knowledge is the quickest way to mediate them.

7 hours ago, justforbeer said:

If they would have done the following their team would be rock solid.
Not buy Minnesota, Jefferson, Claypool, Hightower totaling $18.
Instead
Got New England, P. Williams, C. Samuel, G. Tate $17 total.

Don't forget that he would have had to pay AT LEAST $1 more than what was bid for each of those players to land them, so at a minimum, those players would have cost him $21, not $17.  Plus it's a lot easier to spot the bargains AFTER the draft than while it's still going on.

7 hours ago, justforbeer said:

Week 1 The ESPN Matchup has your team getting roughly 85 pts

This team getting 100 pts.  Not a good outlook when a team is projected to get nearly 20% more points.

Over time, you will learn that approval from a Draft Evaluator is typically the kiss of death.  The problem is that their projections are just that, projections--and they tend to reflect consensus opinion rather than axual results.

Axe Elf drafts for axual results.

[AxeElf 787]

2 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Man, it would suck to spend $40's of my budget on a # 2 RB....

Agreed.  Akers only cost $38, but still...

[jrokh 567]

1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

Agreed.  Akers only cost $38, but still...

I was referring to the former starter Ronald Jones, but you knew that already...

[AxeElf 787]

Just now, jrokh said:

I was referring to the former starter Ronald Jones, but you knew that already...

Oh, I thought you meant like #2 on his own team.  Yes, Jones is my #2 RB behind Mostert.

[jrokh 567]

Just now, AxeElf said:

Oh, I thought you meant like #2 on his own team.  Yes, Jones is my #2 RB behind Mostert.

Yes #2 on his own team, like Ronald Jones, now is...

[AxeElf 787]

Just now, jrokh said:

Yes #2 on his own team, like Ronald Jones, now is...

Nonsense.

[jrokh 567]

3 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Nonsense.

Keep fooling yourself. Your top 2 RB's are part of 3-headed committees at best. You have your work cut out for you just to finish .500

[AxeElf 787]

32 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Keep fooling yourself. Your top 2 RB's are part of 3-headed committees at best. You have your work cut out for you just to finish .500

My top RB was a part of a 3-headed committee last season too, and yet he...

...was 2nd-best in the NFL in rushes per TD.

...had 12 rushing TDs in his final 9 games.

...was second in rushing yardage over his final 9 games.

...scored more fantasy points during that span than Christian McCaffrey.

...led all RBs (minimum 100 carries) in percentage of rushes that went for 5 yards or more.

...led all RBs (minimum 100 carries) in percentage of rushes that went for 10 yards or more.

...has a great offensive line (was second among RBs in yards per carry before first contact)

...is elusive (was top 10 in yards per carry after first contact)

...plays on a team that is top 5 in rushing percentage.

...plays on a team that is top 5 in red zone rushing percentage.

...was 4th among RBs (minimum 100 carries) in fantasy points per touch.

 

You seem to think my RB2, about whom his coach said earlier today...

"the biggest thing for Ronald Jones is that he's really improved his hands in the passing game. There was one day where he was dropping passes but he fixed that. His blitz pickup has been good, he's looking like an all-around back."

...is currently threatened by an overweight and out of shape RB who couldn't beat out Chris Thompson or Ryquell Armstead, but is somehow going to overtake LeSean McCoy and Ronald Jones in a week.  I disagree.

BONUS FACT:  To illustrate the degree to which Leonard Fournette has fallen off, in 2017 Fournette had the TWO top fastest plays in the NFL, reaching speeds of 22.05 and 21.76 mph.  Martavis Bryant, Marquise Goodwin, and Tyreek Hill finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th, respectively.  In 2018, Fournette had ZERO plays among the top 20 fastest, failing to achieve at least 21.48 mph.  In 2019, Fournette appeared at #18, posting a 21.38 mph top play.

 

And if worse comes to worse and one of my top RBs goes down, my RB3 is a guy who...

...is third in rushing TDs since entering the league in 2016.

...is seventh in rushing yardage since entering the league in 2016.

...is the lead RB for a team that drafted three offensive linemen in the first four rounds of the 2020 NFL draft.

...was 6th in percentage of rushes that went for more than 10 yards (minimum 100 carries) in 2019.

 

And now we start to see the benefit of drafting for depth...

[jrokh 567]

2 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

My top RB was a part of a 3-headed committee last season too, and yet he...

...was 2nd-best in the NFL in rushes per TD.

...had 12 rushing TDs in his final 9 games.

...was second in rushing yardage over his final 9 games.

...scored more fantasy points during that span than Christian McCaffrey.

...led all RBs (minimum 100 carries) in percentage of rushes that went for 5 yards or more.

...led all RBs (minimum 100 carries) in percentage of rushes that went for 10 yards or more.

...has a great offensive line (was second among RBs in yards per carry before first contact)

...is elusive (was top 10 in yards per carry after first contact)

...plays on a team that is top 5 in rushing percentage.

...plays on a team that is top 5 in red zone rushing percentage.

...was 4th among RBs (minimum 100 carries) in fantasy points per touch.

 

You seem to think my RB2, about whom his coach said earlier today...

"the biggest thing for Ronald Jones is that he's really improved his hands in the passing game. There was one day where he was dropping passes but he fixed that. His blitz pickup has been good, he's looking like an all-around back."

...is currently threatened by an overweight and out of shape RB who couldn't beat out Chris Thompson or Ryquell Armstead, but is somehow going to overtake LeSean McCoy and Ronald Jones in a week.  I disagree.

BONUS FACT:  To illustrate the degree to which Leonard Fournette has fallen off, in 2017 Fournette had the TWO top fastest plays in the NFL, reaching speeds of 22.05 and 21.76 mph.  Martavis Bryant, Marquise Goodwin, and Tyreek Hill finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th, respectively.  In 2018, Fournette had ZERO plays among the top 20 fastest, failing to achieve at least 21.48 mph.  In 2019, Fournette appeared at #18, posting a 21.38 mph top play.

 

And if worse comes to worse and one of my top RBs goes down, my RB3 is a guy who...

...is third in rushing TDs since entering the league in 2016.

...is seventh in rushing yardage since entering the league in 2016.

...plays for a team that drafted three offensive linemen in the first four rounds of the 2020 NFL draft.

...was 6th in percentage of rushes that went for more than 10 yards (minimum 100 carries) in 2019.

 

And now we start to see the benefit of drafting for depth...

Denial ain’t just the river in Egypt. Seek help. I heard @weepaws knows a good therapist...

[AxeElf 787]

6 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Denial ain’t just the river in Egypt. Seek help. I heard @weepaws knows a good therapist...

If you have an objection to anything I said, I will be glad to instruct you further.  Ad hominem arguments will make you feel better, but won't help you learn.

[jrokh 567]

Just now, AxeElf said:

If you have an objection to anything I said, I will be glad to instruct you further.  Ad hominem arguments will make you feel better, but won't help you learn.

I have no objection about any of this. I don’t give a rat’s fart about your mediocre, and now crappy fantasy team. It is amusing seeing the egg on your face. So thanks for the entertainment...

[AxeElf 787]

5 minutes ago, jrokh said:

It is amusing seeing the egg on your face.

It's what my detractors have been dreaming of for more than 25 years, but you never know--this could finally be the year!

[Matt Mueller 146]

This aged perfect 

 

[justforbeer 39]

2 minutes ago, Matt Mueller said:

This aged perfect 

 

In like 3 days....

[justforbeer 39]

1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

Never be sorry! The wllingness to exhibit your deficiencies in knowledge is the quickest way to mediate them.

Don't forget that he would have had to pay AT LEAST $1 more than what was bid for each of those players to land them, so at a minimum, those players would have cost him $21, not $17.  Plus it's a lot easier to spot the bargains AFTER the draft than while it's still going on.

Over time, you will learn that approval from a Draft Evaluator is typically the kiss of death.  The problem is that their projections are just that, projections--and they tend to reflect consensus opinion rather than axual results.

Axe Elf drafts for axual results.

 Sorry to disagree with you and your vanity. (To be specific)

Are you saying that if I bid six dollars for G Tate, that the other team would’ve paid more? It would be a race to that bid so yes there could be times you would have to pay a dollar more but you also could get it at that exact amount.  So I think I’m good where I am on the team.

 

[AxeElf 787]

1 hour ago, justforbeer said:

Are you saying that if I bid six dollars for G Tate, that the other team would’ve paid more?

No, I'm saying that another team was willing to pay $6 for Tate, so if you wanted him too, you'd have to be willing to pay MORE than $6 for Tate.

Oh yeah, and I was also saying that it's not always possible to see the deals coming while you're still in the draft.

[justforbeer 39]

11 hours ago, AxeElf said:

No, I'm saying that another team was willing to pay $6 for Tate, so if you wanted him too, you'd have to be willing to pay MORE than $6 for Tate.

Oh yeah, and I was also saying that it's not always possible to see the deals coming while you're still in the draft.

Just one more time I’m going to try to explain this one to you. Yes, a team out there was willing to bid six dollars . What if I was the team that bid six dollars first?  Will never know. So I will say that we don’t know for a fact this team could exist, but it appears feasible. 

Not seeing the details, well would that be a coming back down to earth statement by you?  Lol

[AxeElf 787]

12 minutes ago, justforbeer said:

Not seeing the details, well would that be a coming back down to earth statement by you?  Lol

I think you are referring to my statement about hindsight being 20/20 when it comes to finding the deals in an auction draft...?

It was intended as an instructional statement to correct your apparent misconceptions about constructing the perfect team in hindsight.

[Canadianfan 76]

13 hours ago, AxeElf said:

My top RB was a part of a 3-headed committee last season too, and yet he...

...was 2nd-best in the NFL in rushes per TD.

...had 12 rushing TDs in his final 9 games.

...was second in rushing yardage over his final 9 games.

...scored more fantasy points during that span than Christian McCaffrey.

...led all RBs (minimum 100 carries) in percentage of rushes that went for 5 yards or more.

...led all RBs (minimum 100 carries) in percentage of rushes that went for 10 yards or more.

...has a great offensive line (was second among RBs in yards per carry before first contact)

...is elusive (was top 10 in yards per carry after first contact)

...plays on a team that is top 5 in rushing percentage.

...plays on a team that is top 5 in red zone rushing percentage.

...was 4th among RBs (minimum 100 carries) in fantasy points per touch.

 

You seem to think my RB2, about whom his coach said earlier today...

"the biggest thing for Ronald Jones is that he's really improved his hands in the passing game. There was one day where he was dropping passes but he fixed that. His blitz pickup has been good, he's looking like an all-around back."

...is currently threatened by an overweight and out of shape RB who couldn't beat out Chris Thompson or Ryquell Armstead, but is somehow going to overtake LeSean McCoy and Ronald Jones in a week.  I disagree.

BONUS FACT:  To illustrate the degree to which Leonard Fournette has fallen off, in 2017 Fournette had the TWO top fastest plays in the NFL, reaching speeds of 22.05 and 21.76 mph.  Martavis Bryant, Marquise Goodwin, and Tyreek Hill finished 3rd, 4th, and 5th, respectively.  In 2018, Fournette had ZERO plays among the top 20 fastest, failing to achieve at least 21.48 mph.  In 2019, Fournette appeared at #18, posting a 21.38 mph top play.

 

And if worse comes to worse and one of my top RBs goes down, my RB3 is a guy who...

...is third in rushing TDs since entering the league in 2016.

...is seventh in rushing yardage since entering the league in 2016.

...is the lead RB for a team that drafted three offensive linemen in the first four rounds of the 2020 NFL draft.

...was 6th in percentage of rushes that went for more than 10 yards (minimum 100 carries) in 2019.

 

And now we start to see the benefit of drafting for depth...

I try not to build my fantasy team by what a coach says. 
 

 

[AxeElf 787]

8 minutes ago, Canadianfan said:

I try not to build my fantasy team by what a coach says.

Then you should probly disregard this...

"Despite this latest addition, Arians says that Ronald Jones is still the starter in his offense, and called Fournette a heck of an insurance policy.

'It's his job. Nothing has changed for him,' Arians said of Jones, via Jon Ledyard of Pewter Report. 'It's his job, he's got it, he's got to screw it up to lose it and I don't see that happening.'"

Ronald Jones is Still Bucs Starter

[jrokh 567]

Yeah, Gnome they obviously love RJ... Lmao...

[AxeElf 787]

Just now, jrokh said:

Yeah, Gnome they obviously love RJ... Lmao...

I don't care how they feel about him, as long as he gets the 20 touches per game that have been projected for him.

[jrokh 567]

1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

I don't care how they feel about him, as long as he gets the 20 touches per game that have been projected for him.

Ok, that was your first good response in a while, I was starting to worry. Once Lenny learns the playbook, RJ will be lucky to get 10...

[AxeElf 787]

1 minute ago, jrokh said:

Ok, that was your first good response in a while, I was starting to worry. Once Lenny learns the playbook, RJ will be lucky to get 10...

Ok, then I should be good until 2023.

[AxeElf 787]

15 hours ago, AxeElf said:

And that leads me to the first trade that is up for review:

Troy's Team sends Cam Akers.

Tampa Bay Bandits send Gardner Minshew and Chris Thompson.

I'm not a big fan of vetoing legitimate trades, but I hope everyone votes against that one.  QBs are gold in this league (and Minshew is in the top half), Thompson is now the most valuable of the Jaguars' RBs, and Cam Akers was listed as the 3rd RB on the Rams' 8/26 depth chart.  So I hope that's not how trades are going to go in this league--but hey, at least it was only $40.

The trade was vetoed, and now the guy who was giving up Minshew and Thompson for Akers wants to quit because of all the "drama queens."  lol

Dude, we just helped you, while simultaneously maintaining the integrity of the league. Sit down and shut up.

[stonewall 647]

7 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

The trade was vetoed, and now the guy who was giving up Minshew and Thompson for Akers wants to quit because of all the "drama queens."  lol

Dude, we just helped you, while simultaneously maintaining the integrity of the league. Sit down and shut up.

There was nothing wrong with that trade. Often, as you know, trades like that end up working out entirely differently than anticipated. Hopefully, you at least had enough integrity to stick to your guns and not involve yourself with the other anti-traders, which are a blight on any reputable league.

[AxeElf 787]

25 minutes ago, stonewall said:

There was nothing wrong with that trade. Often, as you know, trades like that end up working out entirely differently than anticipated. Hopefully, you at least had enough integrity to stick to your guns and not involve yourself with the other anti-traders, which are a blight on any reputable league.

Nothing wrong with sending a top 15 QB and a starting RB in a 20 team league for one member of a 3-headed RBBC?

Ok...

Sure, Minshew could get hurt and Akers could emerge as the second coming of Barry Sanders, but we can't evaluate trades like that.  I'm not anti-trading, but sometimes cooler minds have to step in where newbs threaten the integrity of a league through wildly unbalanced trades like this.

[stonewall 647]

4 hours ago, AxeElf said:

I'm not anti-trading,

If you vetoed that trade, then, yes, you most certainly are are.....and you should be ashamed. You have obviously been at this long enough to know the rules. Cases can be made (often, sensibly) in favor or opposition to almost any trade, but if both owners desire the exchange, and there is no provable collusion or a CMac for Ozigbo-type offer.....then they should never be rejected in legitimate leagues.

Akers likely isn't the second coming of Barry Sanders.....nor will Minshew be mistaken for Peyton Manning. However, if the owner receiving Akers believes that he will have a Hunt-type rookie season, than he should be able to send whomever is necessary to get the deal done.  No need to try and justify it by spouting that you did him a favor....because no matter how each player's season turns out, you screwed him (and the other owner, of course). Owners don't need favors from league babysitters. They need the freedom to pursue the title, even if others think it ill-advised. Without that aspect, it ain't worth playing.

[AxeElf 787]

31 minutes ago, stonewall said:

Cases can be made (often, sensibly) in favor or opposition to almost any trade, but if both owners desire the exchange, and there is no provable collusion or a CMac for Ozigbo-type offer.....then they should never be rejected in legitimate leagues.

Agreed.  This was a CMac for Ozigbo-type trade.

If people don't want to have their trades reviewed by their leaguemates, then they should join leagues where trades are reviewed by the Commish only, or leagues where no trading is allowed at all.  Trading should be a means by which teams can mutually improve their rosters, not a means for destroying the integrity of a league by artificially and unfairly benefitting one team only.  If he wants to trade Thompson for Akers, I could see that being a relatively even trade, and if one likes Akers better and the other likes Thompson better, that's their business--it's a legitimate difference of opinion.

Throwing in a top 15 QB in a 20 team league--where QBs of any caliber are obviously the gold standard--makes it a wildly unbalanced trade.  If it was a 10 or 12 team league, I'd let it pass, because QBs are a dime a dozen in those, but when the guy is going to be starting Taysom Hill at QB if he doesn't land Minshew, he's worth a lot more than a "throw in" to the RB trade.

And apparently, at least 9 of the remaining 17 leaguemates agree with me.

[weepaws 2,451]

3 hours ago, AxeElf said:

The trade was vetoed, and now the guy who was giving up Minshew and Thompson for Akers wants to quit because of all the "drama queens."  lol

Dude, we just helped you, while simultaneously maintaining the integrity of the league. Sit down and shut up.

I didn’t see anything wrong with that trade , I would have let it go through. 

[AxeElf 787]

12 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I didn’t see anything wrong with that trade , I would have let it go through. 

Seems to be a common affliction.

Thank goodness I'm here...

[weepaws 2,451]

1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

Seems to be a common affliction.

Thank goodness I'm here...

It’s good that you decided to return. 

Thanks, I do appreciate your insite. 

[justforbeer 39]

veto a trade because you do not think it is fair is not a good reason.

Crying like a baby is one thing but stomping your feet until you get your way is another.

Veto a trade for collusion, cheating etc.  Because "I" think it is lopsided is wrong.

During the draft, were you telling everyone who to pick also....I mean, clearly this league has a bunch of mindless fools that cannot think for themselves....in your opinion.

 

[AxeElf 787]

3 minutes ago, justforbeer said:

During the draft, were you telling everyone who to pick also....I mean, clearly this league has a bunch of mindless fools that cannot think for themselves....in your opinion.

I'm Axe Elf; EVERY league is like that.

Not sure where you get the whole "crying like a baby" and "stomping your feet until you get your way" thing; me and at least 9 other league members duly voted to veto a trade that threatened the integrity of a league that allows peer review of all trades, that's all.

[lesjroza 70]

20 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Your assessment skills seem superior to some of my students, but I think you're forgetting that he has to GET to the playoffs before he can be a factor, and with 4 losses pretty much guaranteed due to byes and no depth, missing a couple Deebo games at the beginning of the season, and the usual random game against a monster performance once or twice during the course of a season, he's probly going to have to make the playoffs with a .500 record or so--assuming everyone else stays healthy and consistently performs at a high level.

 

I don't disagree, as I say though, for that owner now its about managing the season. Season sits on a 3 legged stool......................draft, trades, ww.

[stonewall 647]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

This was a CMac for Ozigbo-type trade.

Now you have officially lost all credibility with that asinine remark. I will assume that you actually know in your heart that the veto vote was wrongheaded, but have slipped to the point where you couldn't resist yourself, and certainly would never admit to such.

 

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

And apparently, at least 9 of the remaining 17 leaguemates agree with me.

Indeed, the repressive malady of group-think has reached epidemic proportions.... 

[AxeElf 787]

20 minutes ago, stonewall said:

Now you have officially lost all credibility with that asinine remark. I will assume that you actually know in your heart that the veto vote was wrongheaded, but have slipped to the point where you couldn't resist yourself, and certainly would never admit to such.

Indeed, the repressive malady of group-think has reached epidemic proportions.... 

Dude, if you can't understand how a Minshew for Brissett trade in a 20 team league isn't just as bad as a CMac for Ozigbo trade in any other league, then I can't help you.

Assuming that the Akers for Thompson component of the deal is a fair, unveto-able deal, then that's what this trade boils down to--the guy had to drop Brissett to get Minshew after drafting Brissett and Taysom Hill as his only 2 QBs.

Do you really think that just letting him upgrade from Brissett to Minshew for free is fair to the integrity of the league?  I would have liked to spend $20 more on my skill players too.  I would have, if I knew I could just draft some backup and drop him when I get a starting QB thrown in on top of an otherwise equal RB for RB trade.

[stonewall 647]

4 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Assuming that the Akers for Thompson component of the deal is a fair, unveto-able deal.....

That is the crux of the deal, which makes it plausible. The Thompson owner, if he has an ounce of sense, realizes that his chances of playing more than a handful of games is slim to none.  He has earned the "fragile" moniker. How long would you predict he makes it if they try to showcase him? He also believes that with Akers pedigree, he is gonna shine against the competition....with the injured Henderson and plodding 2015 UFA Brown. The middling Minshew is what made the deal fair. One should never consider the rest of the owners rosters in a trade agreement. They can and should handle that themselves. Again, I think that you know all of this.

 

17 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Do you really think that just letting him upgrade from Brissett to Minshew for free is fair to the integrity of the league?

It's not free. He's giving up a RB (Akers) that has the potential to be a 3-down back, and legitimate FF difference maker this season. A back with a current Fantasy Football Calculator ADP of 5.02 in 12-teamers...while receiving an oft-injured 3rd down specialist (Thompson) currently flying off the boards at 12.06. What, pray tell, could help even things out a bit? Maybe the 24th QB off the boards currently, at 14.03?

[AxeElf 787]

5 minutes ago, stonewall said:

A back with a current Fantasy Football Calculator ADP of 5.02 in 12-teamers...while receiving an oft-injured 3rd down specialist (Thompson) currently flying off the boards at 12.06.

Yeah, that's legit--trot out a preseason-long ADP for a back who became the featured back on his team just 3 days ago.  If the trade happened before Fournette got cut, you'd have a leg to stand on, but now, no.

I can't help you.

[stonewall 647]

8 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Yeah, that's legit--trot out a preseason-long ADP for a back who became the featured back on his team just 3 days ago.

Nice try, but checkmate.

Data from 2405 fantasy football mock drafts between September 1, 2020 and September 3, 2020.

https://fantasyfootballcalculator.com/adp/ppr/12-team/running-back