Jacob Blake shooting - honest question

[BLS 313]

I'm watching Hard Knocks.  Sean McVay is watching the video of Jacob being shot.

He's flabbergasted and proclaims "WTF are people thinking?!  How can he shoot that guy for just walking away?!"

My initial reaction to his reaction is "WTF are YOU thinking?".

That being said, I reserve the right to be wrong.  Maybe my perceptions need calibration.

 

So, I'd love to hear opposing viewpoints.  But with a caveat.

Here's my issue.  They were called because his baby momma called the police and said he showed up, uninvited and took her car keys away.
He would not give them back and was combative as best I understand.  The police arrive and he was detained.  That means lawfully, he cannot leave.
He resisted, was tased (to no effect) and then walked to his driver's door, with what APPEARs to be a knife in his hand.  But I will admit, it's tough to tell from the video.

He walks towards his car and opens the door where he is obviously shot.   My argument would be that he could easily have a gun or weapon in the vehicle and could then be capable of killing or hurting anyone in the area.

So....what am I missing?  Because I truly don't understand, but I AM trying to see the opposing viewpoint.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,559]

16 minutes ago, BLS said:

I'm watching Hard Knocks.  Sean McVay is watching the video of Jacob being shot.

He's flabbergasted and proclaims "WTF are people thinking?!  How can he shoot that guy for just walking away?!"

My initial reaction to his reaction is "WTF are YOU thinking?".

That being said, I reserve the right to be wrong.  Maybe my perceptions need calibration.

 

So, I'd love to hear opposing viewpoints.  But with a caveat.

Here's my issue.  They were called because his baby momma called the police and said he showed up, uninvited and took her car keys away.
He would not give them back and was combative as best I understand.  The police arrive and he was detained.  That means lawfully, he cannot leave.
He resisted, was tased (to no effect) and then walked to his driver's door, with what APPEARs to be a knife in his hand.  But I will admit, it's tough to tell from the video.

He walks towards his car and opens the door where he is obviously shot.   My argument would be that he could easily have a gun or weapon in the vehicle and could then be capable of killing or hurting anyone in the area.

So....what am I missing?  Because I truly don't understand, but I AM trying to see the opposing viewpoint.

He knew what he was watching and he knew the cameras were on him. Of course he was going to show outrage. Did you think he was going to say ‘Hold on, I have to see that again’ ? 

[Vikings4ever 496]

17 minutes ago, BLS said:

He would not give them back and was combative as best I understand.  The police arrive and he was detained.  That means lawfully, he cannot leave.

The cops knew he had a warrant out, so he was full on getting arrested, not just detained. 

[Mark Davis 154]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

He knew what he was watching and he knew the cameras were on him. Of course he was going to show outrage. Did you think he was going to say ‘Hold on, I have to see that again’ ? 

Yep, he already knows what he is supposed to think.  The blue checkmark brigade, mainstream media, and BLM would crucify anyone for having an original thought that didn't fall right in line with them.

[BLS 313]

Ugh.  So why?  Can't the black folks who aren't shitbags see this guy is a shitbag?

I don't wanna see anybody die.  I don't want to see anybody get shot.

But even intelligent black people who are productive members of society, HAVE to see this doesn't apply to them, right?

I'm not trying to be an ignorant, racist d1ck.  I'm trying to understand what I'm missing.

[KSB2424 3,082]

BLS you are not missing anything.  The world has completely gone crazy.  Truth be damned. 

 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,564]

1 hour ago, BLS said:

Ugh.  So why?  Can't the black folks who aren't shitbags see this guy is a shitbag?

I don't wanna see anybody die.  I don't want to see anybody get shot.

But even intelligent black people who are productive members of society, HAVE to see this doesn't apply to them, right?

I'm not trying to be an ignorant, racist d1ck.  I'm trying to understand what I'm missing.

Every black friend of mine thinks he deserved to be shot

[Goggins 146]

You forgot the part where he came to this same apartment on 5/3, broke in at 6am, went to the bedroom and fingered his ex baby mama without her consent to see if she smelled like another man's semen. She called the cops and reported it and got a TRO and an arrest warrant was issued.

He has no permanent address so he laid low a few months and then showed back up at her apartment, she called the cops, cops showed up knowing his history, he resisted arrest, waved a knife, and went to his car for "something".

Remember just a few years ago when the NFL had their big "we don't beat women or rape them anymore, we respect women" campaign?

Now they are putting a rapist's name on their helmets. And the social media mob/BLM has forced them into a corner where they have to pretend not to notice what everyone else does.

[Baker Boy 1,475]

My initial reaction, right after I saw the shooting, was the same as his but because it looked so bad  my second thought was there must be more to the story.

I have since changed my mind.

[Baker Boy 1,475]

7 hours ago, BLS said:

Ugh.  So why?  Can't the black folks who aren't shitbags see this guy is a shitbag?

I don't wanna see anybody die.  I don't want to see anybody get shot.

But even intelligent black people who are productive members of society, HAVE to see this doesn't apply to them, right?

I'm not trying to be an ignorant, racist d1ck.  I'm trying to understand what I'm missing.

And why don’t they care about the true victim in this story?  Nobody mentions her.

[listen2me 23 1,529]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

And why don’t they care about the true victim in this story?  Nobody mentions her.

Or the kids he brought to a house he wasnt allowed to be at by law.  With a knife.  While having a warrant out for his arrest? 

Good parenting

But let me guess the peenie reaction....the educational system failed this black man.  He didnt learn how to not be a dirtbag! Put the best teachers in with great funding and this guy still dips out of class to go smoke a J by the dumpster.  

At some point the black community needs to disown crap parents rather than glorify them.

[supermike80 1,282]

Can't we go back to "hands up don't shoot?"  Put your damn hands up, comply with law enforcement, then NONE of this gets escalated.   It really is that simple.

Not once, not one time have I heard about what Blake may have done to get shot.  I find it impossible to believe the cop said to himself, "hes black, let's shoot him"  especially with all the attention right now. 

[edjr 5,540]

5 hours ago, Goggins said:

You forgot the part where he came to this same apartment on 5/3, broke in at 6am, went to the bedroom and fingered his ex baby mama without her consent to see if she smelled like another man's semen.

If this were the 50s, that would be considered a true romantic

[edjr 5,540]

43 minutes ago, Baker Boy said:

And why don’t they care about the true victim in this story? 

White people

[fandandy 3,311]

33 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Can't we go back to "hands up don't shoot?"  Put your damn hands up, comply with law enforcement, then NONE of this gets escalated.   It really is that simple.

Not once, not one time have I heard about what Blake may have done to get shot.  I find it impossible to believe the cop said to himself, "hes black, let's shoot him"  especially with all the attention right now. 

During that time I always thought that a missed marketing opportunity was for pullup style diapers for black babies printed with Pants Up Don't Poop.

[Cruzer 1,992]

1 hour ago, Baker Boy said:

My initial reaction, right after I saw the shooting, was the same as his but because it looked so bad  my second thought was there must be more to the story.

I have since changed my mind.

Ditto. 

My sympathy for Floyd has since waivered a bit too. I mean yes the officer went over the top in using excessive force - but gosh damn. They gave that dude every opportunity to peacefully work out the situation. All he had to do was cooperate and sit in the backseat. And claustrophobic my ass - he was in vehicle when they found him. Where was his claustrophobia then? 

[FeelingMN 273]

31 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Ditto. 

My sympathy for Floyd has since waivered a bit too. I mean yes the officer went over the top in using excessive force - but gosh damn. They gave that dude every opportunity to peacefully work out the situation. All he had to do was cooperate and sit in the backseat. And claustrophobic my ass - he was in vehicle when they found him. Where was his claustrophobia then? 

So he deserved to die?  I get it....dude absolutely did not help himself at all.  Listen to the cops, man.  But not doing that means you die?  Dude was cuffed and wasn't a threat at all.  Especially considering the MPD had been told not to kneel on people in order to subdue them.  

That case I'm still sympathetic.

Jacob Blake?  Not really.  Had he been walking away, down the street away from the car.....sure.  But you can't act like that and put the cop in a situation where he thinks its me or you.  And obviously the guys a piece of work.  But there's a rapist posting in this thread and nobody thought he was a scumbag.  People were actually supporting that guy.  Telling him to delete the evidence here at the GC.  So the moral outrage here isn't about a dude's past transgressions, it's just about the dude.

[BLS 313]

So if everybody agrees both these guys were Dbags and could have prevented their situations by just following orders, why is the whole damn world so blown up about this?

It's as if they're jamming an agenda down our throats.

 

[Cruzer 1,992]

7 minutes ago, FeelingMN said:

So he deserved to die?  I get it....dude absolutely did not help himself at all.  Listen to the cops, man.  But not doing that means you die?  Dude was cuffed and wasn't a threat at all.  Especially considering the MPD had been told not to kneel on people in order to subdue them.  

That case I'm still sympathetic.

Of course he didn't deserve to die. But I also don't think the officer was purposely trying to kill him either. I do believe he was trying to hurt him - thus the excessive force admission. I also believe the cop should do time.

But Floyd brought that on himself. Those officers gave him every chance to peacefully sit in the car. Even handcuffed Floyd was combative, out of control and a threat. 

[Herbivore 904]

9 hours ago, BLS said:

I'm watching Hard Knocks.  Sean McVay is watching the video of Jacob being shot.

He's flabbergasted and proclaims "WTF are people thinking?!  How can he shoot that guy for just walking away?!"

My initial reaction to his reaction is "WTF are YOU thinking?".

That being said, I reserve the right to be wrong.  Maybe my perceptions need calibration.

 

So, I'd love to hear opposing viewpoints.  But with a caveat.

Here's my issue.  They were called because his baby momma called the police and said he showed up, uninvited and took her car keys away.
He would not give them back and was combative as best I understand.  The police arrive and he was detained.  That means lawfully, he cannot leave.
He resisted, was tased (to no effect) and then walked to his driver's door, with what APPEARs to be a knife in his hand.  But I will admit, it's tough to tell from the video.

He walks towards his car and opens the door where he is obviously shot.   My argument would be that he could easily have a gun or weapon in the vehicle and could then be capable of killing or hurting anyone in the area.

So....what am I missing?  Because I truly don't understand, but I AM trying to see the opposing viewpoint.

I dont think I represent "the other side".  and I have not immersed myself in this situation.  However I dont think he had the knife in his hand outside the truck..he apparently said he had a knife, and then a knife was recovered on the drivers side floor board.  He was resisting.  Cops were in a tough spot there.  He could have had a weapon though isnt a very good justification for shooting someone in the back 7 times at very close range.  scum bag that he may have been.  Its interesting that he lived..wonder what he might say now.  double down on dickery or life changing moment that somehow works for good.

[Fireballer 2,367]

18 minutes ago, FeelingMN said:

 Especially considering the MPD had been told not to kneel on people in order to subdue them.  

 

Link?  All I heard was that was within their training.

[FlyinHeadlock 459]

Rules of Engagement. Different for every police dept on when someone can be killed with overwhelming force. If the ROE was followed that's not on the officer. Blake was using a headlock which we now accept as overwhelming lethal force hands down. This part goes over peoples heads for some reason. Why can Blake use it and not the officer. That's not economy of force. Blake now has the advantage. He can use lethal force and it can't be applied to him. I can't think of any ROE where an officer must lower his or her response when the suspect raises theirs. Just nonsense. 

[BLS 313]

1 minute ago, FlyinHeadlock said:

Rules of Engagement. Different for every police dept on when someone can be killed with overwhelming force. If the ROE was followed that's not on the officer. Blake was using a headlock which we now accept as overwhelming lethal force hands down. This part goes over peoples heads for some reason. Why can Blake use it and not the officer. That's not economy of force. Blake now has the advantage. He can use lethal force and it can't be applied to him. I can't think of any ROE where an officer must lower his or her response when the suspect raises theirs. Just nonsense. 

Blake had a cop in a headlock?  Hadn't heard that.

[FlyinHeadlock 459]

1 minute ago, BLS said:

Blake had a cop in a headlock?  Hadn't heard that.

I just heard it. The rules of engagement need to be adjusted if true. Can the officer shoot to kill if he or she escapes from a lethal headlock. I mean it's just a headlock that apparently killed GF. No big deal right...meh.

[drobeski 3,061]

17 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Link?  All I heard was that was within their training.

He's wrong, as usual. 

 

[MedStudent 56]

40 minutes ago, FeelingMN said:

 But there's a rapist posting in this thread and nobody thought he was a scumbag.  People were actually supporting that guy.  Telling him to delete the evidence here at the GC.  

What did I miss? 

[Fireballer 2,367]

18 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

 I dont think he had the knife in his hand outside the truck..he apparently said he had a knife, and then a knife was recovered on the drivers side floor board.  He was resisting.  Cops were in a tough spot there.  He could have had a weapon though isnt a very good justification for shooting someone in the back 7 times at very close range.  

The SCOTUS has said that you cant MMQB police involved shootings. So anything derived from video will not be admissible.  It will be based on reasonableness.  Basically, what would another reasonable officer do in that specfic moment armed with the exact same info.  

Also, but maybe not, the "Fleeing felon" ruling may be considered here.  If Blake just committed a violent felony, and was fleeing, lethal force is allowed if the officer believes that he is a danger to continue with violence and a danger to the public. Felonious assault on an officer, armed with a knife, and trying to escape with his kids could raise it to this being considered.  Therefore, the "shot in the back" verbiage is null and void.  

[Djgb13 2,338]

8 hours ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

Every black friend of mine thinks he deserved to be shot

Same with mine. Of course, they are being called coons by the ghetto black people we know 

[Strike 3,937]

1 minute ago, Fireballer said:

The SCOTUS has said that you cant MMQB police involved shootings. So anything derived from video will not be admissible.  It will be based on reasonableness.  Basically, what would another reasonable officer do in that specfic moment armed with the exact same info.  

Also, but maybe not, the "Fleeing felon" ruling may be considered here.  If Blake just committed a violent felony, and was fleeing, lethal force is allowed if the officer believes that he is a danger to continue with violence and a danger to the public. Felonious assault on an officer, armed with a knife, and trying to escape with his kids could raise it to this being considered.  Therefore, the "shot in the back" verbiage is null and void.  

But it is inflammatory, so it needs to stay.

[Hawkeye21 1,848]

37 minutes ago, BLS said:

So if everybody agrees both these guys were Dbags and could have prevented their situations by just following orders, why is the whole damn world so blown up about this?

It's as if they're jamming an agenda down our throats.

 

Not everyone agrees on what actions being made are acceptable for being shot.  Some people think no one should ever be shot because every life matters.  Others feel it is acceptable if shooting that person means saving one's life or the life of others.  I don't ever think everyone with all agree on what's right when it comes to someone getting shot.

[Herbivore 904]

6 minutes ago, Strike said:

But it is inflammatory, so it needs to stay.

by all accounts, it is what happened.  shot, in the back, 7 times..correct?

[Strike 3,937]

Just now, Herbivore said:

by all accounts, it is what happened.  shot, in the back, 7 times..correct?

Maybe, don't know.  Haven't really watched too much on this one.  It sounds like me that they neutralized a threat.  I don't think the specifics are that important, and they muddy the discussion.  Was he a threat?  Is that even debatable?  Then they neutralized it.  End of story IMO.

[Fireballer 2,367]

 

3 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

by all accounts, it is what happened.  shot, in the back, 7 times..correct?

Not to be snarky, but so what if they did?  There are countless scenarios where back shots are completely legal and inline with training. But, as Strike alluded to, its a term to insinuate retreat, surrender, etc and it fans the flames.

[Gladiators 1,900]

After giving this some thought, the officers should have asked him to turn around so they could shoot him in the front.  Totally irresponsible on their part.

Going forward, criminals can treat it like red light, green light.  If they turn away from the cops, the cops can't shoot them (red light for those who aren't following).  If they're facing the cops, then the cops can shoot them (green light).

We have also learned that "I can't breave" can be used anytime a criminal would prefer not to be arrested.

I think Lebron & company would endorse this.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,559]

35 minutes ago, drobeski said:

He's wrong, as usual. 

 

There are at least 4 controversial police shootings that have had national exposure yet to be brought to court. Floyd, Brooks (Atlanta) Briana Taylor and Blake. In all but the Taylor case in Kentucky, the other cases are either flimsy or the prosecution has overcharged. The AG in Kentucky (Taylor) is the only one taking his time with his case, hoping to get it right. The others have been sloppily rushed for political purposes.  All these cases have  the potential to outrage the mob when the verdicts come in. They most likely will. Throw in the jogger/ duke boys case as well. This stuff is not going away. 

[listen2me 23 1,529]

1 hour ago, FeelingMN said:

So he deserved to die?  I get it....dude absolutely did not help himself at all.  Listen to the cops, man.  But not doing that means you die?  Dude was cuffed and wasn't a threat at all.  Especially considering the MPD had been told not to kneel on people in order to subdue them.  

That case I'm still sympathetic.

Jacob Blake?  Not really.  Had he been walking away, down the street away from the car.....sure.  But you can't act like that and put the cop in a situation where he thinks its me or you.  And obviously the guys a piece of work.  But there's a rapist posting in this thread and nobody thought he was a scumbag.  People were actually supporting that guy.  Telling him to delete the evidence here at the GC.  So the moral outrage here isn't about a dude's past transgressions, it's just about the dude.

Does it not matter that he had meth and toxic levels of fentanyl in his system or no? Perhaps ate some drugs as cops pulled up.  They even asked him if he was on drugs because he was acting sporadic.....he said no.  If he said yes they perhaps narcan him and he lives.

The guy said he couldnt breath long before he was on the ground.  

I agree the main cop didnt need to kneel on his neck and once he stopped talking  they should have realized and gave him medical attention.  Perhaps fire that cop.

You dont think he ODd?

 

[tanatastic 2,061]

You aren’t missing anything, it was a totally justified shooting of a violent felon with a warrant out on him reaching into his car for what could have been a weapon. It’s open and shut, cops did nothing wrong.

[listen2me 23 1,529]

2 minutes ago, tanatastic said:

You aren’t missing anything, it was a totally justified shooting of a violent felon with a warrant out on him reaching into his car for what could have been a weapon. It’s open and shut, cops did nothing wrong.

People act like they rolled up saw a black guy and shot him.  No actually they tried hard to detain and arrest him in a couple different ways.

It is very easy to brainwash and fill them with propaganda in this age of social media.  So much so that people think it is perfectly acceptable to throw things, punch in face, wrestle, resist arrest without any ramifications.  Hell people think it is ok to steal loot and destroy things and arent afraid of the ramifications.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,559]

So a guy who shrugged of a taser and 3 cops fighting with him is going to his car with three kids in it. Should have just let him go and picked him up later.  Because psychos never hurt kids. 

[Gladiators 1,900]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So a guy who shrugged of a taser and 3 cops fighting with him is going to his car with three kids in it. Should have just let him go and picked him up later.  Because psychos never hurt kids. 

And he would have complied later. Just didn’t feel like it at that time.