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Jacob Blake shooting - honest question

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1 minute ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So a guy who shrugged of a taser and 3 cops fighting with him is going to his car with three kids in it. Should have just let him go and picked him up later.  Because psychos never hurt kids. 

And sending the message that if you fight the cops, they'll let you go and hope you won't fight the next time they try to arrest you wouldn't encourage criminals to do it. :rolleyes:

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At this point I think some people think the cops should throw the cuffs at these black criminals and ask them nicely to put them on themselves.

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2 minutes ago, Gladiators said:

And he would have complied later. Just didn’t feel like it at that time.

Yup. Just let him drive away after all that. We still aren’t getting the whole story. I’m waiting to hear what this mutt said during the whole thing. I’m willing to bet something  along the lines of “Ima kill that bich” was said. 

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1 hour ago, BLS said:

So if everybody agrees both these guys were Dbags and could have prevented their situations by just following orders, why is the whole damn world so blown up about this?

It's as if they're jamming an agenda down our throats.

 

There is an extensive history of cops abusing their power. Everyone knows about the code between officers and bad cops remaining on a force despite their disregard for the law when it comes to them. They are paying the price for that now imo, fair or unfair.

I get being upset that this guy was shot in the back when he still did not pose an immediate threat to cops. What I dont get is dismissing this guys past and acting like a Saint was taken from this earth. I also don't get why people are more outraged over an absolute piece of salt getting killed than a child. Nor do I understand why more people aren't talking about how simply complying with an officers request would eliminate the chance of getting shot. I get why the politicians are using him as a pawn, but intelligent people who can appreciate a safe city where they don't have to worry about being the victim of a crime can't wrap their heads around simply not resisting arrest.

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The big thing I don't understand about the whole Jacob Blake thing is: Why is everyone talking to his dad? The guy who was shot is still alive isn't he? Why isn't anyone talking to him? I don't want to hear from his father. He obviously did a bad job of raising his son but aside from that who gives a fock about him. I want to hear from the source. 

Another thing I don't understand is how could the policeman shoot at him 7 times at point blank range and not kill him? Who trained this cop how to shoot? BLS? :P

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12 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

There is an extensive history of cops abusing their power. Everyone knows about the code between officers and bad cops remaining on a force despite their disregard for the law when it comes to them. They are paying the price for that now imo, fair or unfair.

I get being upset that this guy was shot in the back when he still did not pose an immediate threat to cops. What I dont get is dismissing this guys past and acting like a Saint was taken from this earth. I also don't get why people are more outraged over an absolute piece of salt getting killed than a child. Nor do I understand why more people aren't talking about how simply complying with an officers request would eliminate the chance of getting shot. I get why the politicians are using him as a pawn, but intelligent people who can appreciate a safe city where they don't have to worry about being the victim of a crime can't wrap their heads around simply not resisting arrest.

Here’s the big short falling in policing over the last 30 years: When violent crime was rampant in the 80-90’s police cracked down to get a handle on it. They did this in a lot of ways, but one of them was broken windows. We started enforcing the little stuff to stop the big stuff. It worked.  But what happened was we never let up. People in high crime areas were going along with a strong police presence after living in violence for so long.  But after we got things under control, we should have backed off on the lower level stuff. But the leadership didn’t want to see any rise in crime, their careers and re-election depended on it. So they still wanted the same amount of arrests and tickets as when things were bad. It bred resentment with the good people in those areas. Working guys getting beer drinking tickets because a cop needs to hit his number or else the boss comes down on them. When things were bad, we wrote those tickets to a-holes. Well, the a-holes got smart and stopped doing their nonsense blatantly.  But the cops number still had to be hit for the month. My union was bringing these quotas up years ago. No one listened. And here we are. 

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41 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

Blake might be alive today if no one had called the police.  :dunno:

 

His victim should have let him rape her again and none of this would have happened. 

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2 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

His victim should have let him rape her again and none of this would have happened. 

What a comedy of errors it took for this senseless cop killing to occur. 

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1 hour ago, Fireballer said:

 

Not to be snarky, but so what if they did?  There are countless scenarios where back shots are completely legal and inline with training. But, as Strike alluded to, its a term to insinuate retreat, surrender, etc and it fans the flames.

yeah, maybe, but in this case its just reality..he was shot in the back for maybe having a weapon, and other points(tazed etc).  as I said in my original post, i have not followed this much...almost all of my info is from here.  i ended up watching a video of the event this morning.  I am not here to say these policemen did something egregiously wrong, though would say shooter cop might not be the best LEO.  My post was mainly to give BLS some kind of response that was not coming from a righty, that spoke to the he had a knife in his hand comment, and how Blake "could" have hurt someone in the area.  

HT wrote that the kids were in the car...was that the case?  

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1 hour ago, MedStudent said:

The big thing I don't understand about the whole Jacob Blake thing is: Why is everyone talking to his dad? The guy who was shot is still alive isn't he? Why isn't anyone talking to him? I don't want to hear from his father. He obviously did a bad job of raising his son but aside from that who gives a fock about him. I want to hear from the source. 

Another thing I don't understand is how could the policeman shoot at him 7 times at point blank range and not kill him? Who trained this cop how to shoot? BLS? :P

Don't know much about handgun wounds obviously.

He missed everything vital.

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1 hour ago, TimmySmith said:

Blake might be alive today if no one had called the police.  :dunno:

 

You serious, Clark?

 

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9 minutes ago, BLS said:

Don't know much about handgun wounds obviously.

He missed everything vital.

 

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Media should interview this woman's father and mother. We have one pigeon holed viewpoint on how everyone should feel and they have revisited it numerous times already to include a fund raising barbeque interviewing other members of his family. Got it. We know what they think and believe. That's all that matter...meh.  

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1 hour ago, Herbivore said:

yeah, maybe, but in this case its just reality..he was shot in the back for maybe having a weapon, and other points(tazed etc).  as I said in my original post, i have not followed this much...almost all of my info is from here.  i ended up watching a video of the event this morning.  I am not here to say these policemen did something egregiously wrong, though would say shooter cop might not be the best LEO.  My post was mainly to give BLS some kind of response that was not coming from a righty, that spoke to the he had a knife in his hand comment, and how Blake "could" have hurt someone in the area.  

HT wrote that the kids were in the car...was that the case?  

There’s close up video that has been re-imaged to make it clearer and it shows the knife in his hand. Makes sense that they found it on the drivers floor where he would drop it when he was shot. 
Yes, 3 of his 6 kids were in the backseat while he visited and harassed his rape victim. 

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13 minutes ago, avoiding injuries said:

There’s close up video that has been re-imaged to make it clearer and it shows the knife in his hand. Makes sense that they found it on the drivers floor where he would drop it when he was shot. 
Yes, 3 of his 6 kids were in the backseat while he visited and harassed his rape victim. 

send link about knife if you can.  firing 7 times with the kids right there..not good.  

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3 hours ago, TimmySmith said:

Blake might be alive today if he was able to follow simple instructions  :dunno:

 

Fixed

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17 hours ago, BLS said:

I'm watching Hard Knocks.  Sean McVay is watching the video of Jacob being shot.

He's flabbergasted and proclaims "WTF are people thinking?!  How can he shoot that guy for just walking away?!"

My initial reaction to his reaction is "WTF are YOU thinking?".

That being said, I reserve the right to be wrong.  Maybe my perceptions need calibration.

 

So, I'd love to hear opposing viewpoints.  But with a caveat.

Here's my issue.  They were called because his baby momma called the police and said he showed up, uninvited and took her car keys away.
He would not give them back and was combative as best I understand.  The police arrive and he was detained.  That means lawfully, he cannot leave.
He resisted, was tased (to no effect) and then walked to his driver's door, with what APPEARs to be a knife in his hand.  But I will admit, it's tough to tell from the video.

He walks towards his car and opens the door where he is obviously shot.   My argument would be that he could easily have a gun or weapon in the vehicle and could then be capable of killing or hurting anyone in the area.

So....what am I missing?  Because I truly don't understand, but I AM trying to see the opposing viewpoint.

If you are trying to see the opposing viewpoint, why are you asking the question at the GC?

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1 minute ago, Mike Honcho said:

If you are trying to see the opposing viewpoint, why are you asking the question at the GC?

Don’t you post here? No one tries to get you kicked out unlike your comrades elsewhere. 

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5 hours ago, TimmySmith said:

Blake might be alive today if no one had called the police.  :dunno:

 

He is alive. 

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5 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

At this point I think some people think the cops should throw the cuffs at these black criminals and ask them nicely to put them on themselves.

There’s already videos available where the cops don’t shoot and the guy beats or kills them and takes off.

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17 hours ago, BLS said:

I'm watching Hard Knocks.  Sean McVay is watching the video of Jacob being shot.

He's flabbergasted and proclaims "WTF are people thinking?!  How can he shoot that guy for just walking away?!"

My initial reaction to his reaction is "WTF are YOU thinking?".

That being said, I reserve the right to be wrong.  Maybe my perceptions need calibration.

 

So, I'd love to hear opposing viewpoints.  But with a caveat.

Here's my issue.  They were called because his baby momma called the police and said he showed up, uninvited and took her car keys away.
He would not give them back and was combative as best I understand.  The police arrive and he was detained.  That means lawfully, he cannot leave.
He resisted, was tased (to no effect) and then walked to his driver's door, with what APPEARs to be a knife in his hand.  But I will admit, it's tough to tell from the video.

He walks towards his car and opens the door where he is obviously shot.   My argument would be that he could easily have a gun or weapon in the vehicle and could then be capable of killing or hurting anyone in the area.

So....what am I missing?  Because I truly don't understand, but I AM trying to see the opposing viewpoint.

Simple answer - BLM has miraculously convinced everyone that it is a fundamental human right NOT to be detained.

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6 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

when he still did not pose an immediate threat to cops. 

Link?

And if anyone is basing their opinion on whether he was an immediate threat to the officer, youre doing it wrong. Lethal force is acceptable if the officer feels he is a threat to ANYONE.  If that cop perceived Blake posed a credible threat of death or serious bodily injury to the general public or the kids in the car, the cop had every right to pepper that mofo in the back.

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9 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Here’s the big short falling in policing over the last 30 years: When violent crime was rampant in the 80-90’s police cracked down to get a handle on it. They did this in a lot of ways, but one of them was broken windows. We started enforcing the little stuff to stop the big stuff. It worked.  But what happened was we never let up. People in high crime areas were going along with a strong police presence after living in violence for so long.  But after we got things under control, we should have backed off on the lower level stuff. But the leadership didn’t want to see any rise in crime, their careers and re-election depended on it. So they still wanted the same amount of arrests and tickets as when things were bad. It bred resentment with the good people in those areas. Working guys getting beer drinking tickets because a cop needs to hit his number or else the boss comes down on them. When things were bad, we wrote those tickets to a-holes. Well, the a-holes got smart and stopped doing their nonsense blatantly.  But the cops number still had to be hit for the month. My union was bringing these quotas up years ago. No one listened. And here we are. 

Which is why anyone who is sick of the way things are run need to look higher than the cops. But the media has them looking at the bottom of chain instead of the top.

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3 hours ago, Fireballer said:

Link?

And if anyone is basing their opinion on whether he was an immediate threat to the officer, youre doing it wrong. Lethal force is acceptable if the officer feels he is a threat to ANYONE.  If that cop perceived Blake posed a credible threat of death or serious bodily injury to the general public or the kids in the car, the cop had every right to pepper that mofo in the back.

I'm not going to sit here and argue about whether he was a threat or not. If he would have complied with police he would be alive. Plain and simple. That's the message that the Dems should be delivering to the criminal group of their base

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15 hours ago, Fireballer said:

Link?  All I heard was that was within their training.

 

 

Quote

 

As part of the 2013 settlement in the Smith case, Minneapolis officers were supposed to receive additional training on how to properly restrain suspects.

“And it was my belief that Minneapolis was going to do retraining on that issue,” Ryan said. “I don’t know if that ever happened.”

 

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/kare-11-investigates-earlier-minneapolis-police-restraint-death/89-dff25e6f-5697-491b-a5d5-661f37abb131

 

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7 hours ago, FeelingMN said:

Ok I see now.  I assumed incorrectly that you were referring that Minny was told to not to use a knee as a carotid restraint, which Chauvin is accused of. Your article is referring to positional asphyxia that is certainly a subject that all officers learn in an academy.  Its a phenomenon that occurrs when cuffed persons were allowed to lay on there stomach and died. It really has nothing to do with a knee in the back or neck.  The mere fact that a suspect is,placed on their stomach too long can kill them. There are documented cases of persons dying while untouched in a police car.  Apples to oranges.

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11 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

I'm not going to sit here and argue about whether he was a threat or not. If he would have complied with police he would be alive. Plain and simple. That's the message that the Dems should be delivering to the criminal group of their base

When did he die?  Last I heard, he was alive and paralyzed from the waist down.

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Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

When did he die?  Last I heard, he was alive and paralyzed from the waist down.

You're right hes not dead. He wouldn't be paralyzed

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Just now, Frozenbeernuts said:

You're right hes not dead. He wouldn't be paralyzed

Ok.  Thought I missed something.  :thumbsup:

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On 9/2/2020 at 12:32 PM, MedStudent said:

The big thing I don't understand about the whole Jacob Blake thing is: Why is everyone talking to his dad? The guy who was shot is still alive isn't he? Why isn't anyone talking to him? I don't want to hear from his father. He obviously did a bad job of raising his son but aside from that who gives a fock about him. I want to hear from the source. 

Another thing I don't understand is how could the policeman shoot at him 7 times at point blank range and not kill him? Who trained this cop how to shoot? BLS? :P

because his dad is a giant walking pile of sh1t. Thats what the media wants bad mouthing the PD and Trump.

His mom wanted to talk to Trump. She's normal and they want nothing to do with that.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/jacob-blake-mother-respect-trump-missed-call-a9689646.html

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Blake is a bad man and responsible for his own shooting. Seven rounds in the back was excessive. Both these things can be true. 

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Just now, MDC said:

Blake is a bad man and responsible for his own shooting. Seven rounds in the back was excessive. Both these things can be true. 

I can agree with this.  :thumbsup:

1-2 rounds would have been enough.

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9 minutes ago, MDC said:

 Seven rounds in the back was excessive. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

1-2 rounds would have been enough.

Why?

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4 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

Why?

I get that the when you have to use force, you use it overwhelmingly until the threat is neutralized.  I was taught that too.

However, 1, 2 or even 3 rounds PROBABLY should have been enough from a threat standpoint.  However, that is a judgement call on my part.  I have no idea what I would have done in that same situation.  I can see how 7 rounds might be considered excessive.

I'm not one of those "OMG!  HE SHOT HIM IN THE BACK" type of guys.  I'm more of "I'm going to let the other guy die for his cause" type of guy.  Whether that's shooting him in the back, ,front or side - I don't care.

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19 minutes ago, MDC said:

Blake is a bad man and responsible for his own shooting. Seven rounds in the back was excessive. Both these things can be true. 

He wasn't hit by seven rounds.  Untruths are excessive here also.

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