DEEZNUTS 18 Posted September 3, 2020 Per Adam Schefter... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,106 Posted September 3, 2020 Expect McCoy to be cut tomorrow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
polecatt 399 Posted September 3, 2020 Ronald Jones value just took a nose dive! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AxeElf 787 Posted September 3, 2020 1 hour ago, polecatt said: Ronald Jones value just took a nose dive! Yeah, because Ronald Jones is probly worse than Ryquell Armstead and Chris Thompson, who Fournette was unable to beat out in Jacksonville. As a low-end RB2, it's not like there's much room for a "dive" anyway--but Jones remains a low-end RB2, even with the additional bench depth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinsrule05 30 Posted September 3, 2020 1 hour ago, polecatt said: Ronald Jones value just took a nose dive! Agreed, there was a lot of talk about Jones improving as a receiver. Now they bring in a RB who caught 70+ last year. I guess Jones didn’t improve enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyinHeadlock 459 Posted September 3, 2020 Saints should have traded Kamara and got him. That's a good deal. Next year they are in serious cap trouble. They won all those games Lativius started. Kamara is amazing but not worth it. I did call Fournette to the Bucs though on here. Slow clap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,452 Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, skinsrule05 said: Agreed, there was a lot of talk about Jones improving as a receiver. Now they bring in a RB who caught 70+ last year. I guess Jones didn’t improve enough. Great point about Fournette and his pass catching. He’s going to team up with Brady, and he’s going to be very productive. I can see Fournette being very motivated, he wanted out of Jacksonville badly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,452 Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, FlyinHeadlock said: Saints should have traded Kamara and got him. That's a good deal. Next year they are in serious cap trouble. They won all those games Lativius started. Kamara is amazing but not worth it. I did call Fournette to the Bucs though on here. Slow clap. Congrats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JagFan 97 Posted September 3, 2020 7 hours ago, AxeElf said: Yeah, because Ronald Jones is probly worse than Ryquell Armstead and Chris Thompson, who Fournette was unable to beat out in Jacksonville. As a low-end RB2, it's not like there's much room for a "dive" anyway--but Jones remains a low-end RB2, even with the additional bench depth. You are incorrect assuming this was a move based on talent with Fournette. The Jags moved him because he was a cancer, and even his teammates wanted him gone. Once Fournette gets a few weeks of practice in, and assuming Brady has anything left in the tank with all that pass catching talent, he will be a very productive RB. Buy low now before you can’t afford him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Shepherd 10 Posted September 3, 2020 14 minutes ago, JagFan said: You are incorrect assuming this was a move based on talent with Fournette. The Jags moved him because he was a cancer, and even his teammates wanted him gone. Once Fournette gets a few weeks of practice in, and assuming Brady has anything left in the tank with all that pass catching talent, he will be a very productive RB. Buy low now before you can’t afford him. Agree Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozenbeernuts 1,652 Posted September 3, 2020 32 minutes ago, JagFan said: You are incorrect assuming this was a move based on talent with Fournette. The Jags moved him because he was a cancer, and even his teammates wanted him gone. Once Fournette gets a few weeks of practice in, and assuming Brady has anything left in the tank with all that pass catching talent, he will be a very productive RB. Buy low now before you can’t afford him. Was he a cancer? All of these players with talent just so happen to want out of Jax? That organization has been run like shlt for years. I don't trust anything I hear about the players being the issue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JagFan 97 Posted September 3, 2020 22 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said: Was he a cancer? All of these players with talent just so happen to want out of Jax? That organization has been run like shlt for years. I don't trust anything I hear about the players being the issue I agree 100%. It’s been painful to watch. That being said, as for this topic...Fournette’s talent level isn’t the issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozenbeernuts 1,652 Posted September 3, 2020 54 minutes ago, JagFan said: I agree 100%. It’s been painful to watch. That being said, as for this topic...Fournette’s talent level isn’t the issue. I agree with that. I'm trying to buy where I can without paying for a rb2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AxeElf 787 Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, JagFan said: You are incorrect assuming this was a move based on talent with Fournette. Axe Elf never assumes anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrokh 567 Posted September 3, 2020 13 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said: Expect McCoy to be cut tomorrow. Any minute now... say goodbye to Ronald Jones' fantasy value, if he ever had any to begin with... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JagFan 97 Posted September 3, 2020 16 minutes ago, jrokh said: Any minute now... say goodbye to Ronald Jones' fantasy value, if he ever had any to begin with... Maybe the Bucs should trade him to the Pats Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AxeElf 787 Posted September 3, 2020 In case you're not following my league thread... "Despite this latest addition, Arians says that Ronald Jones is still the starter in his offense, and called Fournette a heck of an insurance policy. 'It's his job. Nothing has changed for him,' Arians said of Jones, via Jon Ledyard of Pewter Report. 'It's his job, he's got it, he's got to screw it up to lose it and I don't see that happening.'" Ronald Jones is Still Bucs Starter Oops, looks like Mike beat me by a minute... Oh well... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrokh 567 Posted September 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Mike FF Today said: Hmmm... I doubt you sign a still young former top 5 overall pick, with a recent history of behavior issues, for 'injury insurance'. I'm sure Tommy Terrific fully endorsed this move... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bier Meister 1,512 Posted September 3, 2020 Is this all just coach speak? BA has been talking jones up as his 3 down back, but brings in mccoy and fournette?! I think fournette will take over, just do not know how quickly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,452 Posted September 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Frozenbeernuts said: Was he a cancer? All of these players with talent just so happen to want out of Jax? That organization has been run like shlt for years. I don't trust anything I hear about the players being the issue Agreed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,452 Posted September 3, 2020 56 minutes ago, Mike FF Today said: Hmmm... Cheap coach talk, what’s he going to say , we picked up Fournette because we really didn’t view r Jones as a rb1. Fournette is going to be the Bucs rb1. I’m glad we hold are draft this Monday n im going to target Fournette. Im sorry if you’ve already drafted and took Jones as a rb2. Oops. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Serenity Now 44 Posted September 3, 2020 As a person who started a thread on this board called RoJo saying how he was being undervalued, and then drafted him last week, the Fournette signing is a real kick to balls. I'm holding out hope that they didn't claim him on waivers, he hasn't been a model of efficiency, and has had his share of injuries. I don't think Fournette isn't nearly as good as people think he is, but I don't know if Jones is an upgrade. I think they're both middling talents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,452 Posted September 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Serenity Now said: As a person who started a thread on this board called RoJo saying how he was being undervalued, and then drafted him last week, the Fournette signing is a real kick to balls. I'm holding out hope that they didn't claim him on waivers, he hasn't been a model of efficiency, and has had his share of injuries. I don't think Fournette isn't nearly as good as people think he is, but I don't know if Jones is an upgrade. I think they're both middling talents. I think Fournette is better than most thing , he was playing with a bad organization. And now he’s going to be surrounded with a boat load of talent, and his very own talent we’ll shine , he’s a big upgrade over R Jones, and the Bucs know it, why bother if they don’t believe that themselves. I’ve dropped R Jones from a flex play to a low rb2, I’ve dropped him down to a low flex rb3 and high rb4. Fournette is a three down back, and he’s going to produce much better then he has in the past. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Serenity Now 44 Posted September 3, 2020 8 minutes ago, weepaws said: I think Fournette is better than most thing , he was playing with a bad organization. And now he’s going to be surrounded with a boat load of talent, and his very own talent we’ll shine , he’s a big upgrade over R Jones, and the Bucs know it, why bother if they don’t believe that themselves. I’ve dropped R Jones from a flex play to a low rb2, I’ve dropped him down to a low flex rb3 and high rb4. Fournette is a three down back, and he’s going to produce much better then he has in the past. If you think Fournette is that good, Jones shouldn't be a low flex RB3 or 4 in your rankings, he should be a meaningless RB 60 to you. Nothing Fournette has done in the NFL has ever looked like he is a supreme talent. He's a guy that will get what the O-line gives him and not much else. Is he better than Jones? yeah, he probably is. I think people remember and hold onto what he could have been, not what he has been. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AxeElf 787 Posted September 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Serenity Now said: Nothing Fournette has done in the NFL has ever looked like he is a supreme talent. Axually I was kind of impressed when he posted the TWO top fastest ball-carrier speeds in the NFL in 2017, beating Martavis Bryant, Marquise Goodwin, and Tyreek Hill, who were 3rd, 4th and 5th that year, respectively. But he's fallen off a bit since then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Serenity Now 44 Posted September 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, AxeElf said: Axually I was kind of impressed when he posted the TWO top fastest ball-carrier speeds in the NFL in 2017, beating Martavis Bryant, Marquise Goodwin, and Tyreek Hill, who were 3rd, 4th and 5th that year, respectively. But he's fallen off a bit since then. Speed is a nice asset, but not sure it necessarily makes anyone a special talent. After all that crown belongs to Matt Breida now. Another back who is a fine NFL player, but probably not on anyone's generational talent lists. The hype he received coming out of college still seems to follow him, but I don't know if it's warranted, or if NFL teams see him the way the general public does. This is still a RB who couldn't be traded, and was cut and cleared waivers on a 1 year $4 million contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AxeElf 787 Posted September 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Serenity Now said: Speed is a nice asset, but not sure it necessarily makes anyone a special talent. After all that crown belongs to Matt Breida now. Another back who is a fine NFL player, but probably not on anyone's generational talent lists. The hype he received coming out of college still seems to follow him, but I don't know if it's warranted, or if NFL teams see him the way the general public does. This is still a RB who couldn't be traded, and was cut and cleared waivers on a 1 year $4 million contract. Interestingly enough, with Fournette backing up my RB2 RoJo in my 20 team league, Breida also backs up my RB3, Jordan Howard (and he used to back up my RB1, Raheem Mostert). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBayXXXVII 2,106 Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, jrokh said: Any minute now... say goodbye to Ronald Jones' fantasy value, if he ever had any to begin with... Unless there's some fancy cap work going on, the Bucs will have to shed about $1.5M from their roster. They were only $1.4M under the cap and just gave Fournette a $2M base pay for this year. The easiest way to get the money is to cut McCoy. They may cut others, but I'm not sure who. McCoy wasn't and isn't, going to be a 3rd down back. He's actually a pretty bad pass blocker. On PFF, McCoy was ok in 2013, but over the last 6 years McCoy rated really poorly in pass blocking effectiveness. 2013: 22 2014: 61 (nearly last) 2015: 77 (last) 2016: 68 (last) 2017: 56 2018: 43 2019: 47 (last) There's a reason why Andy Reid made McCoy a healthy scratch, not only at the end of the season, but in the playoffs and Super Bowl as well. In their 3 playoff games, he got 1 total snap. During the year, his numbers pretty much mirrored Williams', yet Williams was a huge participant in the last 6 games of the year while McCoy watched from the sidelines. You don't think his horrible pass blocking had anything to do with that? I don't expect Fournette to impact Jones all that much. He'll mostly impact McCoy (if he stays), and Vaughn, more than Jones. Jones will still get the lions share of 1st and 2nd down duties, which is where the major bulk of his work was going to be before. He wasn't going to get that many short yardage and goal line carries to begin with, so Fournette, who'll likely be getting them now, will come at the expense of McCoy and Ogunbowale. Fournette signing will mean: Jones still gets the bulk of work on 1st and 2nd downs. Fournette will get the 3rd down passing plays and short yardage/goal line situations, and spot duties on 1st and 2nd down. McCoy will solely be used to give Jones a breather on 1st and 2nd downs (if he's still even on the team this season). Vaughn will now be virtually a special team'er the whole year, since TJ Logan is out for the season. Ogunbowale will still be the 3rd down pass blocking back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Einstein's Dog 20 Posted September 3, 2020 45 minutes ago, weepaws said: I think Fournette is better than most thing , he was playing with a bad organization. And now he’s going to be surrounded with a boat load of talent, and his very own talent we’ll shine , he’s a big upgrade over R Jones, and the Bucs know it, why bother if they don’t believe that themselves. I’ve dropped R Jones from a flex play to a low rb2, I’ve dropped him down to a low flex rb3 and high rb4. Fournette is a three down back, and he’s going to produce much better then he has in the past. I'm with you on this one weepaws. L Fournette is a good back who was in a bad situation while Ronnie "bag of donuts" Jones was a bad back in a good situation. I argued in the other thread that I had watched the Tampa games and R Jones was bad, and didn't pass the eye test. Fournette has kind of a reverse L Bell situation, L Bell is a good back who went to a bad situation. If you had L Bell in Pitt you would have an easy top 10 back. You now put L Fournette, a good back, in a decent situation, and I think good things will happen. This recent flurry of change makes it hard to know what ADP is for Fournette though. I would like Fournette but it will take him some time to assume a bell cow role. Where are you going to target getting him? And forget about R Jones, he's toast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AxeElf 787 Posted September 3, 2020 44 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said: Unless there's some fancy cap work going on, the Bucs will have to shed about $1.5M from their roster. They were only $1.4M under the cap and just gave Fournette a $2M base pay for this year. The easiest way to get the money is to cut McCoy. They may cut others, but I'm not sure who. McCoy wasn't and isn't, going to be a 3rd down back. He's actually a pretty bad pass blocker. On PFF, McCoy was ok in 2013, but over the last 6 years McCoy rated really poorly in pass blocking effectiveness. 2013: 22 2014: 61 (nearly last) 2015: 77 (last) 2016: 68 (last) 2017: 56 2018: 43 2019: 47 (last) There's a reason why Andy Reid made McCoy a healthy scratch, not only at the end of the season, but in the playoffs and Super Bowl as well. In their 3 playoff games, he got 1 total snap. During the year, his numbers pretty much mirrored Williams', yet Williams was a huge participant in the last 6 games of the year while McCoy watched from the sidelines. You don't think his horrible pass blocking had anything to do with that? I don't expect Fournette to impact Jones all that much. He'll mostly impact McCoy (if he stays), and Vaughn, more than Jones. Jones will still get the lions share of 1st and 2nd down duties, which is where the major bulk of his work was going to be before. He wasn't going to get that many short yardage and goal line carries to begin with, so Fournette, who'll likely be getting them now, will come at the expense of McCoy and Ogunbowale. Fournette signing will mean: Jones still gets the bulk of work on 1st and 2nd downs. Fournette will get the 3rd down passing plays and short yardage/goal line situations, and spot duties on 1st and 2nd down. McCoy will solely be used to give Jones a breather on 1st and 2nd downs (if he's still even on the team this season). Vaughn will now be virtually a special team'er the whole year, since TJ Logan is out for the season. Ogunbowale will still be the 3rd down pass blocking back. Pretty much nailed it; I would expect them to cut McCoy too. I think he's just done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Einstein's Dog 20 Posted September 3, 2020 40 minutes ago, AxeElf said: Pretty much nailed it; I would expect them to cut McCoy too. I think he's just done. Amazing how your tune changes after you draft the bum. It's Ronnie "Bag of Donuts" Jones we're talking about. He stinks. He was never going to get the goal line work - because once again - he stinks at it. He couldn't beat out P Barber for it last year - and P Barber stinks. Jones is not getting 20 touches (as you stated in the other thread before L Fournette arrived) and he certainly isn't now, and he won't get the goal line work. It's just a matter of time before L Fournette takes over the gig full time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozenbeernuts 1,652 Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, AxeElf said: Axually I was kind of impressed when he posted the TWO top fastest ball-carrier speeds in the NFL in 2017, beating Martavis Bryant, Marquise Goodwin, and Tyreek Hill, who were 3rd, 4th and 5th that year, respectively. But he's fallen off a bit since then. That is definitely interesting. For his size his speed coming out is freakish (people say AJ Dillon is slow, even though he had a 1.53 10 yard split at like 240 pounds) Still when I watch highlights of him from 2019 he got caught on damn near every breakaway run from behind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AxeElf 787 Posted September 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Frozenbeernuts said: That is definitely interesting. For his size his speed coming out is freakish (people say AJ Dillon is slow, even though he had a 1.53 10 yard split at like 240 pounds) Still when I watch highlights of him from 2019 he got caught on damn near every breakaway run from behind. Yeah, like I said, he's fallen off a bit since 2017. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AxeElf 787 Posted September 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: Amazing how your tune changes after you draft the bum. It's Ronnie "Bag of Donuts" Jones we're talking about. He stinks. He was never going to get the goal line work - because once again - he stinks at it. He couldn't beat out P Barber for it last year - and P Barber stinks. Jones is not getting 20 touches (as you stated in the other thread before L Fournette arrived) and he certainly isn't now, and he won't get the goal line work. My tune hasn't changed at all. It's everyone else's tune that has changed with the Fournette signing. I think you may be confusing two conversations, though. @TBayXXXVII projected RoJo to average 20 touches per game this season, and I mocked him thoroughly, because I don't see RoJo as the elite kind of workhorse RB that averages 20 touches per game. I saw him as a borderline RB2, probly somewhere in the RB20-RB25 range, and that is still where I see him today. I think he will be a strong RB2 in my 20 team league. When I referenced the 20 touch projection in the other thread, I was ribbing TBay a little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,452 Posted September 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Serenity Now said: If you think Fournette is that good, Jones shouldn't be a low flex RB3 or 4 in your rankings, he should be a meaningless RB 60 to you. Nothing Fournette has done in the NFL has ever looked like he is a supreme talent. He's a guy that will get what the O-line gives him and not much else. Is he better than Jones? yeah, he probably is. I think people remember and hold onto what he could have been, not what he has been. Why would someone rank R Jones as a meaningless rb. He still as value. What Fournette has been hasn’t been all that bad , as you think, he’s been on bad organization. , and he’s been much better then your draft pick R Jones. I never saw Jones higher then a low rb2 , I loved him in the flex, but I don’t know why you would think that with Fournette on the team Jones isn’t worthy of being ranked on the top 60. Shame on you. Now get yourself together and act appropriate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,452 Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Serenity Now said: Speed is a nice asset, but not sure it necessarily makes anyone a special talent. After all that crown belongs to Matt Breida now. Another back who is a fine NFL player, but probably not on anyone's generational talent lists. The hype he received coming out of college still seems to follow him, but I don't know if it's warranted, or if NFL teams see him the way the general public does. This is still a RB who couldn't be traded, and was cut and cleared waivers on a 1 year $4 million contract. And look at where he just landed. He’s going to have his best season in the nfl to date. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weepaws 2,452 Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said: I'm with you on this one weepaws. L Fournette is a good back who was in a bad situation while Ronnie "bag of donuts" Jones was a bad back in a good situation. I argued in the other thread that I had watched the Tampa games and R Jones was bad, and didn't pass the eye test. Fournette has kind of a reverse L Bell situation, L Bell is a good back who went to a bad situation. If you had L Bell in Pitt you would have an easy top 10 back. You now put L Fournette, a good back, in a decent situation, and I think good things will happen. This recent flurry of change makes it hard to know what ADP is for Fournette though. I would like Fournette but it will take him some time to assume a bell cow role. Where are you going to target getting him? And forget about R Jones, he's toast. Great post, and I agree. Jones was in a great position and that’s why any of use liked him. Fournette is unquestionably a much better player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrokh 567 Posted September 3, 2020 2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said: Unless there's some fancy cap work going on, the Bucs will have to shed about $1.5M from their roster. They were only $1.4M under the cap and just gave Fournette a $2M base pay for this year. The easiest way to get the money is to cut McCoy. They may cut others, but I'm not sure who. McCoy wasn't and isn't, going to be a 3rd down back. He's actually a pretty bad pass blocker. On PFF, McCoy was ok in 2013, but over the last 6 years McCoy rated really poorly in pass blocking effectiveness. 2013: 22 2014: 61 (nearly last) 2015: 77 (last) 2016: 68 (last) 2017: 56 2018: 43 2019: 47 (last) There's a reason why Andy Reid made McCoy a healthy scratch, not only at the end of the season, but in the playoffs and Super Bowl as well. In their 3 playoff games, he got 1 total snap. During the year, his numbers pretty much mirrored Williams', yet Williams was a huge participant in the last 6 games of the year while McCoy watched from the sidelines. You don't think his horrible pass blocking had anything to do with that? I don't expect Fournette to impact Jones all that much. He'll mostly impact McCoy (if he stays), and Vaughn, more than Jones. Jones will still get the lions share of 1st and 2nd down duties, which is where the major bulk of his work was going to be before. He wasn't going to get that many short yardage and goal line carries to begin with, so Fournette, who'll likely be getting them now, will come at the expense of McCoy and Ogunbowale. Fournette signing will mean: Jones still gets the bulk of work on 1st and 2nd downs. Fournette will get the 3rd down passing plays and short yardage/goal line situations, and spot duties on 1st and 2nd down. McCoy will solely be used to give Jones a breather on 1st and 2nd downs (if he's still even on the team this season). Vaughn will now be virtually a special team'er the whole year, since TJ Logan is out for the season. Ogunbowale will still be the 3rd down pass blocking back. Maybe he gets cut, but it’s not hard to trim 1.5 million. Regardless I was just passing along info from a mostly reliable, certainly plugged in NFL reporter, who has sources telling him not only is shady staying put, he will be getting some reps on game day. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I am staying away from this mess unless RJ or Fournette is still in the board after round 7... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites