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DEEZNUTS

Fournette to Bucs

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18 hours ago, Super Cubs said:

anyone else starting him week 1?

on the fence...

.5 ppr for rbs./1pp for wr/1.5 ppr for te

can start 1-2 rbs

starting chubb

currently have mack in as rb

kupp

landry (keeping an eye on injury)

kelce

ertz

 

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15 minutes ago, Skinny_Bastard said:

I went no RB theory this season.  Picked 10th in a 12 team 1/2 point PPR league.

Mike Thomas,

D. Adams,

L. Jackson,

Chris Godwin,

AJ Brown,

DK metcalf

David Monty

L. Fournettee

Wow that’s a boat load of good WRs. 

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9 minutes ago, Skinny_Bastard said:

I think i have the best team.

It's a passing league now.

Well this will DEFINITELY be a lesson for you then!

Pay close attention, and you'll come out of this disaster of a season a better player for it.

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3 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

on the fence...

.5 ppr for rbs./1pp for wr/1.5 ppr for te

can start 1-2 rbs

starting chubb

currently have mack in as rb

kupp

landry (keeping an eye on injury)

kelce

ertz

 

Keep Mack in.

Kelce and Ertz.  lol

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8 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Keep Mack in.

Kelce and Ertz.  lol

1.5 ppr for te

kelce scores as wr#2, ertz, as wr #6

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Just now, Bier Meister said:

1.5 ppr for te

kelce scores as wr#2, ertz, as wr #6

Yeah, but you probly paid WR1 prices for each of them too.

I'd rather pay WR3 prices for WR1 production.

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2 hours ago, Skinny_Bastard said:

Broken tackle is such a poor stat.  With the higher broken tackle, why isn't his YPA higher?  Does that mean he's got slower burst?  Not reading the blocks?

@Canadianfan posted a link/video on Fournette's lack of vision, et al.  Give that a look.

 

As for Jones and Tampa, Jones was handicapped with a QB who turned the ball over 32 (#1 in the NFL), times and sacked 47 times (5th in the NFL).  Teams invited the pass.  Both Jones and Barber ranked in the top 10 in rush attempts vs a stacked box.  With the ball in his hands, Jones was a perfectly acceptable RB.  Not great or special, but he was pretty good.  As I mentioned, Tampa's OLine ranked 23rd in run blocking, so being forced to break 23 tackles in 173 attempts should prove that to you.  For example, with Joe Mixon had 278 rush attempts (105 more than Jones), and broke 24 tackles.  To note, both Jones and Mixon averaged 1.8 yards per attempt before contact... Mixon 2.3 after contact and Jones 2.4.  Considering the 100+ more attempts and only 1 more broken tackle, logic leads you to believe that Jones had to break a 2nd tackle a lot more often than Mixon did... and yet, still got a tenth of a yard more.


Jones' biggest problems had more to do with playbook knowledge and pass blocking, not running.  Fournette is not a better pass blocker and I highly doubt he has a better understanding of the playbook.  Jones has a chance to prove himself.  If he doesn't, then that's on him.  But, with Brady and a better OLine, he'll be in a great position to put up a good season.

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7 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Yeah, but you probly paid WR1 prices for each of them too.

I'd rather pay WR3 prices for WR1 production.

This is a 2-4 keeper league.  These two have been a nice foundation for my team reaching championship 5 of the past 6 years. I am pretty good at scouting and speculating wrs: ab, nelson, thielen, kupp, landry,  etc.

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47 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

This is a 2-4 keeper league.  These two have been a nice foundation for my team reaching championship 5 of the past 6 years. I am pretty good at scouting and speculating wrs: ab, nelson, thielen, kupp, landry,  etc.

Congrats on needing Axe Elf less than the general citizen.  I withdraw my pejorative laughter at your double-TE set.

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2 hours ago, Super Cubs said:

rb 2

Thank you. 

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On 9/9/2020 at 12:16 PM, AxeElf said:

Congrats on needing Axe Elf less than the general citizen.  I withdraw my pejorative laughter at your double-TE set.

😉

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FOURNETTE FUN FACT:  Fournette currently has 666 career rushing attempts.

No wonder Weepaws likes him so much.

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25 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

FOURNETTE FUN FACT:  Fournette currently has 666 career rushing attempts.

No wonder Weepaws likes him so much.

Armor of God, I don’t fear the enemy. Just numbers. 

Do you type with a mask on? 

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2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

FOURNETTE FUN FACT:  Fournette currently has 666 career rushing attempts.

No wonder Weepaws likes him so much.

Credit where credit is due, that was flipping funny! It also inspired me to crank Iron Maiden's Number of the Beast!

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Bucs need to release McCoy and his "role". Go with RoJo 65% and Len 35%.  McCoy blew a block or two.  What use is he? He can't play anymore.  Arians is trying to build the archetype perfect SB team with dudes in their "roles". But he is blowing it. Play the guys who can play.

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Congrats TB, Jones had a lot of touches 

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12 hours ago, weepaws said:

Congrats TB, Jones had a lot of touches 

This is why you need to watch the games.  Ronnie "Bag of Donuts" Jones did  nothing to hold onto the job.  His stat line of 17 for 66 while pathetic in its own right,  does not tell the whole story, he padded that with a meaningless run at the end. 

IMO, this could be a good buy low opportunity to get Fournette.  If Arians wants Fournette to succeed he may boost him to starter to gash the fluid Carolina D that is up next.

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25 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

This is why you need to watch the games.  Ronnie "Bag of Donuts" Jones did  nothing to hold onto the job.  His stat line of 17 for 66 while pathetic in its own right,  does not tell the whole story, he padded that with a meaningless run at the end. 

IMO, this could be a good buy low opportunity to get Fournette.  If Arians wants Fournette to succeed he may boost him to starter to gash the fluid Carolina D that is up next.

I watched the game.  I saw a lot of bad / conservative play calling because of the apparent lack of time everyone was together.  I expect a lot of the same personnel, just more polish and better execution.  I haven't been and am still not a fan of Byron Leftwich, but time will tell.

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1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I watched the game.  I saw a lot of bad play/conservative play calling because of the apparent lack of time everyone was together.  I expect a lot of the same personnel, just more polish and better execution.

I thought Fournette looked springier, but had some negative runs.  I thought the first down playcalling was pathetic.  I thought McCoy didn't look good.  I do think Tampa will get their act together and Brady should be putting up some numbers.

PS - what a boneheaded play on even attempting to field that kickoff, it was going out of bounds.

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I think Fournette looked very shaky/rusty, which makes sense since he was with the team only a couple days.  I wouldn't say I saw anything positive from him, but certainly nothing negative.  Jones did fine.  The line was pretty rough, but again, I'm not surprised since the Saints have a great front 4 and the Bucs have some things to work on.  I'm fine with how the team played, overall, considering the situation.

The last play of the 3rd Q, Jones ran for 6 yards putting the Bucs on their own 28 with 2nd and 4.  Leftwich called 2 pass plays and the Bucs punted.  At that point in time, the Bucs were down only 7.  Tampa didn't run the ball again until the very last play of the game.  Brady hasn't had enough time to with this group to really thrive yet, that 2nd down play should've been another run.  With limited time together and how those first 3 Q's went, Leftwich should have known to not try and turn the 4th Q into a shootout.  They should have gone more ball control.

For some reason, people kept kidding themselves on how much McCoy was going to be a factor.  As the season progresses, he'll be a much bigger factor than yesterday, but not much more overall.  Yesterday, he had 1 target and no carries, I expect him to get 2 or 3 carries and 2 or 3 pass targets a game.

That special teams room better be nuclear after what happened yesterday.  There was horrible blocking on that FG att and as you said, the miscommunication on the sideline on that kickoff was horrible.

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1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

This is why you need to watch the games.  Ronnie "Bag of Donuts" Jones did  nothing to hold onto the job.  His stat line of 17 for 66 while pathetic in its own right,  does not tell the whole story, he padded that with a meaningless run at the end. 

IMO, this could be a good buy low opportunity to get Fournette.  If Arians wants Fournette to succeed he may boost him to starter to gash the fluid Carolina D that is up next.

No, I didn’t say that he was very productive, I said he had a lot of touches, can’t you see he had a lot of touches without watching the game? 

And of course he won’t keep the rb1 job, Fournette well take over next weekend. 

So stop watching and start reading and looking at those stats, it’ll make you a better person. 

I think your the one telling everyone that K Johnson was the Lions rb to own, right? To much tv watching. 

Ps, I didn’t even watch any highlights nor did I listen to any games on the box , it was a great Sunday, thank you Jesus.  

Come on man, dummy up. 

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1 hour ago, weepaws said:

No, I didn’t say that he was very productive, I said he had a lot of touches, can’t you see he had a lot of touches without watching the game? 

And of course he won’t keep the rb1 job, Fournette well take over next weekend. 

So stop watching and start reading and looking at those stats, it’ll make you a better person. 

I think your the one telling everyone that K Johnson was the Lions rb to own, right? To much tv watching. 

Ps, I didn’t even watch any highlights nor did I listen to any games on the box , it was a great Sunday, thank you Jesus.  

Come on man, dummy up. 

Weepaws, I appreciate your bringing up the statistics.  But as the discussion becomes more nuanced your input becomes less relevant, important details are found in the game observations.

Game observations used in conjunction with statistics can create a more complete analysis.  It's not all luck.

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40 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Weepaws, I appreciate your bringing up the statistics.  But as the discussion becomes more nuanced your input becomes less relevant, important details are found in the game observations.

Game observations used in conjunction with statistics can create a more complete analysis.  It's not all luck.

Lol, once again I ask you, what did I post? I said he had a lot of touches , isn’t that what I typed? 

Ok let’s give a little , it’s 99% luck, just to please your pride.  

So a simple little question, the same question I asked Jrokh the clown, and won’t answer it , how did you come up with your rankings of players before your draft , without preseason games being played? 

Hopefully your a person that can give an answer, maybe? 

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4 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

This is why you need to watch the games.  Ronnie "Bag of Donuts" Jones did  nothing to hold onto the job.  His stat line of 17 for 66 while pathetic in its own right,  does not tell the whole story, he padded that with a meaningless run at the end.

Jones did just fine.  He averaged 3.9 yards per carry on 17 carries, and yes, every carry counts--even the meaningless ones at the end.  In fact, people who drafted Jones were probly counting on a few meaningless runs at the end of games in which the Bucs were ahead.  He added two receptions on three targets for 14 yards, and had another 18 yard catch nullified by penalty.

Fournette averaged 1.0 yards per carry on 5 carries, with a long of 6 yards (which means he netted -1 yards on the other four carries), and added 1 catch for 14 yards.

Anyone who buys low on Fournette should be prepared for him to stay low.

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

For some reason, people kept kidding themselves on how much McCoy was going to be a factor.  As the season progresses, he'll be a much bigger factor than yesterday, but not much more overall.  Yesterday, he had 1 target and no carries, I expect him to get 2 or 3 carries and 2 or 3 pass targets a game.

Axually, McCoy might get passed by Fournette on the depth chart.  I saw McCoy miss at least one critical pass rusher, resulting in a Brady sack.  I'm sure that's not going to go over very well in the film room.

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22 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Jones did just fine.  He averaged 3.9 yards per carry on 17 carries, and yes, every carry counts--even the meaningless ones at the end.  In fact, people who drafted Jones were probly counting on a few meaningless runs at the end of games in which the Bucs were ahead.  He added two receptions on three targets for 14 yards, and had another 18 yard catch nullified by penalty.

Fournette averaged 1.0 yards per carry on 5 carries, with a long of 6 yards (which means he netted -1 yards on the other four carries), and added 1 catch for 14 yards.

Anyone who buys low on Fournette should be prepared for him to stay low.

Axually, McCoy might get passed by Fournette on the depth chart.  I saw McCoy miss at least one critical pass rusher, resulting in a Brady sack.  I'm sure that's not going to go over very well in the film room.

He also ran the wrong route that Brady was obviously not pleased with

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9 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

He also ran the wrong route that Brady was obviously not pleased with

I'm not sure if you're talking about Jones or McCoy, because I didn't see that, but there were lots of errors around the league yesterday with no live preseason action.  One would expect those will get cleaned up in the first few weeks of the season, but yeah, if it was McCoy, that will probly further shorten his leash.  He's an experienced player, he shouldn't be making those kinds of errors.

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It was a tough week 1 match up but I thought Jones and Forunette both looked fine, but neither was all that impressive.  Fournette will probably start to eat into the touches as he get's more comfortable in the offense, but I don't see him completely over taking Jones. The only way I see either of these guys becoming more valuable than the other is if one makes a critical mistake and ends up in the dog house.

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7 minutes ago, Serenity Now said:

The only way I see either of these guys becoming more valuable than the other is if one makes a critical mistake and ends up in the dog house.

Ain't no "becoming" to it; Jones is and will remain the more valuable fantasy asset.

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Read this on roto , Fournette played on nine snaps, and handled the ball 66% of those snaps. 

He’ll gain more work going forward, and then he’ll take over as the clear rb1.  

 

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4 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Read this on roto , Fournette played on nine snaps, and handled the ball 66% of those snaps. 

He’ll gain more work going forward, and then he’ll take over as the clear rb1.  

You should probably have waited a little while before posting this, because when it contradicts an Axe Elf post immediately before it, it's kind of embarrassing for you.

If you wait a few posts, maybe someone will have forgotten what Axe Elf said and believe the nonsense you have to offer.

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5 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

You should probably have waited a little while before posting this, because when it contradicts an Axe Elf post immediately before it, it's kind of embarrassing for you.

If you wait a few posts, maybe someone will have forgotten what Axe Elf said and believe the nonsense you have to offer.

Everyone forgets what you post the moment you post it, except for you.  

Thanks. M. 

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25 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Read this on roto , Fournette played on nine snaps, and handled the ball 66% of those snaps. 

He’ll gain more work going forward, and then he’ll take over as the clear rb1.  

 

He will get more work, that's a given.  He also won't become the clear RB1 at any point in the season unless Jones gets hurt.  Tampa ran 27 plays to their RB's yesterday... in a loss.  Last year, in their 9 losses, the Bucs averaged 17 plays to their RB's... only once did they break 20, and they only had 21 that game.

It's all about wins and losses.  The more games the Bucs win, the plays the RB's will get.  Jones will still get the lions share of 1st and 2nd down touches.  Yesterday he was 3 for 3 on 3rd and short.  Against the 4th best run defense in 2019, Jones average 3.9 ypc, which isn't too shabby.  To note, in 2 games last year vs the Saints (both losses), Jones totaled 13 carries, 48 yards, 4 receptions for 22 yards.  Yesterday he had 17 carries for 66 yards and 2 receptions for 16 yards.  Expect Jones to be a big part of the offense as the team gels over the course of the season.

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25 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Everyone forgets what you post the moment you post it, except for you.  

It takes 11 losers for every league winner who remembers what Axe Elf said.

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15 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

He will get more work, that's a given.  He also won't become the clear RB1 at any point in the season unless Jones gets hurt.  Tampa ran 27 plays to their RB's yesterday... in a loss.  Last year, in their 9 losses, the Bucs averaged 17 plays to their RB's... only once did they break 20, and they only had 21 that game.

It's all about wins and losses.  The more games the Bucs win, the plays the RB's will get.  Jones will still get the lions share of 1st and 2nd down touches.  Yesterday he was 3 for 3 on 3rd and short.  Against the 4th best run defense in 2019, Jones average 3.9 ypc, which isn't too shabby.  To note, in 2 games last year vs the Saints (both losses), Jones totaled 13 carries, 48 yards, 4 receptions for 22 yards.  Yesterday he had 17 carries for 66 yards and 2 receptions for 16 yards.  Expect Jones to be a big part of the offense as the team gels over the course of the season.

I don't understand your confidence that Jones will still get the lions share of 1st and 2nd down touches.  Jones did not look good with them yesterday, they seemed like wasted downs.  In my eyes Jones did nothing yesterday to indicate he had locked down that role.

And yes, when the Bucs have some winning game scripts the RBs should have more carries.  But not all carries are equal and the expected ypc should be adjusted.  For instance, if the team is up 3 scores with 4 minutes to go, giving the ball to the RB would have a reduced expected ypc because the D is expecting it and a big part of the value is the half minute off the clock.  Conversely, when behind multiple  scores and you get a carry on the last play you could expect a nice gain - pretty meaningless though.  To then state something like "3.9 ypc which isn't too shabby" seems like a disingenous attempt to convince yourself that he had a decent day.  I don't see it that way.   Jones grip on the lead back status seems very much in jeopardy. 

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The 3.9 YPC RB isn't getting it done?

Try the 1.0 YPC guy that hasn't had much time in the offense?

Yep that's the plan.  Lock and load.  

 

Fournette will get better and the touches will even out.  Someone will get hurt.  Someone will emerge.

But the idea that Jones didn't show well yesterday and Fournette did is fake news 

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21 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't understand your confidence that Jones will still get the lions share of 1st and 2nd down touches.  Jones did not look good with them yesterday, they seemed like wasted downs.  In my eyes Jones did nothing yesterday to indicate he had locked down that role.

And yes, when the Bucs have some winning game scripts the RBs should have more carries.  But not all carries are equal and the expected ypc should be adjusted.  For instance, if the team is up 3 scores with 4 minutes to go, giving the ball to the RB would have a reduced expected ypc because the D is expecting it and a big part of the value is the half minute off the clock.  Conversely, when behind multiple  scores and you get a carry on the last play you could expect a nice gain - pretty meaningless though.  To then state something like "3.9 ypc which isn't too shabby" seems like a disingenous attempt to convince yourself that he had a decent day.  I don't see it that way.   Jones grip on the lead back status seems very much in jeopardy. 

Of all the takes I've read and listened to, you seem to be the only one that believes Jones looked bad and Fournette was completely superior to him. 

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