It feels like there is a sentiment that you are either fighting for equality or complacent

[cmh6476 751]

This probably could have gone somewhere in one of the other eleventy-billion SJW or anti-BLM threads on this page.  But I think this might be different.  A little.

Social equality is a tough nut to crack.  When you look at different parts of the country, and even with contiguous states there are differences in racial demographics and cultural experiences.  For instance, in my opinion Missouri and Kansas are much different, although most would never see it that way.  When the states were admitted to the union you had to have one free state if you added a slave state.  Kansas is actually the "Free State" as a result of this.  Why in the world would a person of color have settled in Missouri during its formative years, when all they had to do was cross the border into Kansas to live free.  During the civil rights demonstrations, Kansas was the site of some of the very first sit-ins, protesting segregation issues.  And Topeka is home to the historic Brown vs Board of Education decision.

Even so, there was never "equity" in terms of being white or being a person of color just because you lived in Kansas.  People of color congregated in neighborhoods consisting of other people of color, and schools, amenities and other services and business opportunities were not as adequate of those that existed in white neighborhoods and areas.  This culture of opportunity for the well to do presented better opportunities and financial well being for families of affluence, primarily those who were Caucasian.

When you look at current laws and the ways we would like to provide opportunities for all in today's society, those who grew up from families that aren't as well to do, even generations ago still face an uphill battle.  Things as simple as grammar and education can hold one back from securing a better paying job or finishing better in school.  I'm sure children who have elder family members who have been frustrated by these inequalities and opportunities they felt like they never had create a lack of hope and desire to work your tail off to make a better life for yourself.

Many of you know I work for a non-profit.  In our area around 88% of our population is white.  Of our white population about 13% live in poverty.  Yet we find 25% of black, 28% of Native, and 20% of our Latino population live in poverty.  You can find logic for why this disparity exists, but should we do something to help level the playing field and improve on these imbalances?  When I was in high school I was frustrated by the lack of scholarships for middle-class white males, and wondered why so many opportunities were specifically focused on females and minorities.  But when you look at these statistics it starts to make sense.  And in the grand scheme I still turned out ok (so to speak), probably more a result of having a loving family and strong support system I could rely on.

I'm not out protesting or very vocal on these issues with social media or anything like that.  But I'm also in a position of influence in my community and I don't think it's ok for me to be complacent either.  Personally, I'm going through some equity, diversity and inclusion training that I sought out, if for nothing else just to gain better perspective and understanding.  Later this month I am bringing someone in to facilitate cultural proficiency training for our entire staff.  And I am working to form a diversity committee with a diverse makeup in terms of ethnic backgrounds, geography and personal experiences with a goal to review our service and program offerings, hiring and retention practices and other aspects of the organization in terms of racial equality.

It's easy to simply criticize the actions of others.  It's easy to not understand their frustrations and resentment.  But it's also not that difficult to take some time, do some self reflection and look at what we can do personally because we all should want to strive for what's just and fair.  I feel like I have been discriminated against, as a father through a divorce and looking at custody and child support.  I don't feel like what's happened to me has been fair.  I would venture to say we could all find examples of how we have been treated unfairly.  But we all should look at what we can do to be better humans, and show that this is probably an issue that deserves some attention.  Even if you don't always agree with the approach that others are taking.

 

[KSB2424 3,083]

We’ve had those trainings at my work. What EXACTLY are you learning?  

[cmh6476 751]

Just now, KSB2424 said:

We’ve had those tradings at my work. What EXACTLY are you learning?  

You don't know until you've gone through it.  And again, it's tough to really identify strategy that can positively influence any of this or result in positive outcomes.  What you are probably learning, more than anything else is help in developing an understanding and appreciation for the feelings of others.  A lot of times just extending someone courtesy and respect can go a long way.  Honestly, it's hard to know what I can personally do to be able to say at the end of my life I did something to make a difference to improve upon those statistics I threw out.  But if I were able to figure something out and say I actually made a difference, isn't it worth the time and investment now, even if we don't really know exactly what it is at the moment?

[Hardcore troubadour 12,643]

I’ve learned that privilege isn’t a racial thing. Saying it is only divided. The biggest problem with all of this is making it about race. The real issue is we have many privileged people in this country and  they are hogging up a lot of the opportunities because their privilege gives them access. And that blocks everyone, not just Black people. The way it will go is the privileged will still get theirs, and so will the blacks. The rest of us will not be considered. 

[KSB2424 3,083]

38 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

You don't know until you've gone through it.  And again, it's tough to really identify strategy that can positively influence any of this or result in positive outcomes.  What you are probably learning, more than anything else is help in developing an understanding and appreciation for the feelings of others.  A lot of times just extending someone courtesy and respect can go a long way.  Honestly, it's hard to know what I can personally do to be able to say at the end of my life I did something to make a difference to improve upon those statistics I threw out.  But if I were able to figure something out and say I actually made a difference, isn't it worth the time and investment now, even if we don't really know exactly what it is at the moment?

Could those statistics have more to do with the fatherless rate in the AA community coupled with a culture (Hip Hop) that glorifies crime?  We can’t talk about that though can we?
 

I think most everyone understands the shitty hand Blacks were given in America.  However Jim Crow laws ended 60 years ago.  Things like Affirmative Action were put in place to jump start that wrong doing. What is the statute of limitations though?  60 more years?  Forever?
 

99% of people treat others well.  Don’t fall for the media hyperbole.  Treat people the way you want t be treated, and keep it moving.  

 

[cmh6476 751]

11 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I’ve learned that privilege isn’t a racial thing. Saying it is only divided. The biggest problem with all of this is making it about race. The real issue is we have many privileged people in this country and  they are hogging up a lot of the opportunities because their privilege gives them access. And that blocks everyone, not just Black people. The way it will go is the privileged will still get theirs, and so will the blacks. The rest of us will not be considered. 

I've tried to explain this to folks in our community who choose a private school over public schools, and then vote against any and every tax levy or funding proposal brought forward by the public schools.  Some of the only way out for some of these kids in poverty is through public education.  And for the families that can spend the thousands of dollars per year to send their kids to the private school, where the only other kids they go to school with are affluent, focused on a college career path they are contributing to a system which continues to oppress those without means. 

By no means am I suggesting those with the means shouldn't be able to choose where their kids go to school, and there is certainly benefit and a better probability for career success and readiness with the path they choose.  But it is also creating this culture of divide with the haves and have nots that tend to contribute to the current environment we are experiencing.  At least in my opinion.

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

Nword

[Strike 3,974]

1)  You have to define "poverty."  Poverty in America is not the same as poverty in the world.  Our poorest live better than a large percentage of even the non poverty people in other countries.  Most people aren't starving.  Many of them have a lot of amenities people in other countries who are defined as poor would love to have, such as air conditioning, a car, a  cell phone, etc.....

2)  Specifically talking about the latino group you mentioned, I'd venture that a large part of that is due to the fact that many are first or second generation latinos. 

3)  Specifically talking about blacks, much of their issue with poverty is self inflicted.  How is it that so many ethnicities came to America poor and, through hard work, worked themselves out of poverty in a generation or two such that we don't even talk about it any more?  People such as the Italians that came though Ellis Island in the early 1900's. 

4)  I'm more than willing to help people who need it.  I don't want to WASTE that help.  We've spent trillions in our war on poverty and the poverty rate is as high as ever.

5)  Our immigration policies have a lot to do with poverty in America.  No one wants to talk about it but it's true.  And I'm not just talking about illegal immigration.

6)  America never guaranteed anyone success.  It guarantees everyone the opportunity for success.  I truly believe that and believe that, for the most part, those who don't succeed fail due to their own choices.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,643]

22 minutes ago, cmh6476 said:

I've tried to explain this to folks in our community who choose a private school over public schools, and then vote against any and every tax levy or funding proposal brought forward by the public schools.  Some of the only way out for some of these kids in poverty is through public education.  And for the families that can spend the thousands of dollars per year to send their kids to the private school, where the only other kids they go to school with are affluent, focused on a college career path they are contributing to a system which continues to oppress those without means. 

By no means am I suggesting those with the means shouldn't be able to choose where their kids go to school, and there is certainly benefit and a better probability for career success and readiness with the path they choose.  But it is also creating this culture of divide with the haves and have nots that tend to contribute to the current environment we are experiencing.  At least in my opinion.

The problem with higher education in our country is that most of  the students in the really good schools are the richest, not necessarily the smartest. And that’s a liberal thing. 

[Voltaire 4,558]

I really worry you're drinking the kool aid, cmh. If your DIE (diversity inclusion equity )  training holds up Martin Luther King Jr's dream as the North Star guiding light of race relations then it's worthwhile. Judging people on the content of their character not the color of their skin. Hold people responsible for their own individual actions.  Being colorblind. I bet that's not what your DIE training teaches. It's all about judging on skin color. You were born with original sin of white skin and must spend the rest of your life making up for it. All that Brown vs Board of Education and Jim Crow stuff happened before we were born. And God bless it being fixed before we experienced any. The only 'systemic racism' in our lifetime that exists has been and continues to be aimed at white and asian people.

And don't get equality and equity confused like your thread title does. They're not the same thing. The DIE people like to conflate the two. You likely won't find anyone here, well maybe BiffTannen, that opposes equality in favor of complacency. That fight was won long ago, and bless them for winning it, which makes your thread title misleading. So long as you're working on equality of opportunity and do so along the lines of improving schools for poor not necessarily minority communities, then that's worthwhile but if you are looking for equity of outcomes, you can shove that up your pie hole.

The individual is the level of responsibility for their own actions. And if you want to help people in need, why only help certain ones? Does your nonprofit sh*t on the 13% of whites in your community that need help? I bet they do. Growing up a member of that 13%, that's what I found. I had to do it all myself without any help, and so I did.

All this DIE stuff is a way to guilt shame white people like you who grew up well off and prey on your good intentions. There is no racism in America. The cops are the good guys. The criminals are the bad guys responsible for their actions. The nation was founded on liberty and freedom, not slavery and racism. If you're finding your DIE lessons have you making excuses for mobs that are burning and looting and tearing down George Washington statues, maybe you should re-examine your life and you certainly don't want to shove that down the throats of anyone else. That DIE sh*t done wrong is cancer and I've never seen it done right.

 

[RLLD 3,455]

What you are seeing is critical race theory manifesting.  Universities have been spewing graduates who firmly believe that you either support their ideology or you are evil.  And as we all know anything evil must be destroyed.

So we have a generation forming with totalitarian ideals coupled with a utopian view.  Think of Pol Pot and his revolution in Cambodia, it is entirely equitable with the left in America today.

So long as discourse is suppressed under this notion that non-compliance with the ideology is evil, we will have a terrible split. If the left continues with the violence it will be inevitable that a corresponding element will rise on the right to match it.....

[Strike 3,974]

10 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

I really worry you're drinking the kool aid, cmh. If your DIE (diversity inclusion equity )  training holds up Martin Luther King Jr's dream as the North Star guiding light of race relations then it's worthwhile. Judging people on the content of their character not the color of their skin. Hold people responsible for their own individual actions.  Being colorblind. I bet that's not what your DIE training teaches. It's all about judging on skin color. You were born with original sin of white skin and must spend the rest of your life making up for it. All that Brown vs Board of Education and Jim Crow stuff happened before we were born. And God bless it being fixed before we experienced any. The only 'systemic racism' in our lifetime that exists has been and continues to be aimed at white and asian people.

And don't get equality and equity confused like your thread title does. They're not the same thing. The DIE people like to conflate the two. You likely won't find anyone here, well maybe BiffTannen, that opposes equality in favor of complacency. That fight was won long ago, and bless them for winning it, which makes your thread title misleading. So long as you're working on equality of opportunity and do so along the lines of improving schools for poor not necessarily minority communities, then that's worthwhile but if you are looking for equity of outcomes, you can shove that up your pie hole.

The individual is the level of responsibility for their own actions. And if you want to help people in need, why only help certain ones? Does your nonprofit sh*t on the 13% of whites in your community that need help? I bet they do. Growing up a member of that 13%, that's what I found. I had to do it all myself without any help, and so I did.

All this DIE stuff is a way to guilt shame white people like you who grew up well off and prey on your good intentions. There is no racism in America. The cops are the good guys. The criminals are the bad guys responsible for their actions. The nation was founded on liberty and freedom, not slavery and racism. If you're finding your DIE lessons have you making excuses for mobs that are burning and looting and tearing down George Washington statues, maybe you should re-examine your life and you certainly don't want to shove that down the throats of anyone else. That DIE sh*t done wrong is cancer and I've never seen it done right.

 

This.  The University of Michigan recently hosted two virtual events.  They called them "cafes" and one was for people of color and the other for whitey.   This is what our institutions of higher learning are teaching the next generation.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/10/university-of-michigan-dearborn-apologizes-for-segregated-virtual-cafes/

Remember when POC had to drink out of different drinking fountains than white people?  Yeah, me neither.  It was before my time and the fact that I don't remember it shows how far we've come.  But in the next 10 years you could see similar segregation reoccur. 

[cmh6476 751]

I like this dialogue a lot better than some of what we see in other threads.  The critical thinking you all show here, proves that this isn't something you all simply take lightly.

[Voltaire 4,558]

38 minutes ago, Strike said:

This.  The University of Michigan recently hosted two virtual events.  They called them "cafes" and one was for people of color and the other for whitey.   This is what our institutions of higher learning are teaching the next generation.

https://nypost.com/2020/09/10/university-of-michigan-dearborn-apologizes-for-segregated-virtual-cafes/

Remember when POC had to drink out of different drinking fountains than white people?  Yeah, me neither.  It was before my time and the fact that I don't remember it shows how far we've come.  But in the next 10 years you could see similar segregation reoccur. 

I don't know how to put this... while UM-Ann Arbor is more woke leftist than UM-Dearborn, they'realso more woke than damn near any other public school across the country, I don't know why I like their sports programs, habit I guess, but was UM-Dearborn that puked up this segregationist policy, not UM-Ann Arbor.

When people talk about the University of Michigan, it's always UM- Ann Arbor, UM-Dearborn is the neglected/invisible half-brother.

[Patented Phil 823]

2 hours ago, cmh6476 said:

This probably could have gone somewhere in one of the other eleventy-billion SJW or anti-BLM threads on this page.  But I think this might be different.  A little.

Social equality is a tough nut to crack.  When you look at different parts of the country, and even with contiguous states there are differences in racial demographics and cultural experiences.  For instance, in my opinion Missouri and Kansas are much different, although most would never see it that way.  When the states were admitted to the union you had to have one free state if you added a slave state.  Kansas is actually the "Free State" as a result of this.  Why in the world would a person of color have settled in Missouri during its formative years, when all they had to do was cross the border into Kansas to live free.  During the civil rights demonstrations, Kansas was the site of some of the very first sit-ins, protesting segregation issues.  And Topeka is home to the historic Brown vs Board of Education decision.

Even so, there was never "equity" in terms of being white or being a person of color just because you lived in Kansas.  People of color congregated in neighborhoods consisting of other people of color, and schools, amenities and other services and business opportunities were not as adequate of those that existed in white neighborhoods and areas.  This culture of opportunity for the well to do presented better opportunities and financial well being for families of affluence, primarily those who were Caucasian.

When you look at current laws and the ways we would like to provide opportunities for all in today's society, those who grew up from families that aren't as well to do, even generations ago still face an uphill battle.  Things as simple as grammar and education can hold one back from securing a better paying job or finishing better in school.  I'm sure children who have elder family members who have been frustrated by these inequalities and opportunities they felt like they never had create a lack of hope and desire to work your tail off to make a better life for yourself.

Many of you know I work for a non-profit.  In our area around 88% of our population is white.  Of our white population about 13% live in poverty.  Yet we find 25% of black, 28% of Native, and 20% of our Latino population live in poverty.  You can find logic for why this disparity exists, but should we do something to help level the playing field and improve on these imbalances?  When I was in high school I was frustrated by the lack of scholarships for middle-class white males, and wondered why so many opportunities were specifically focused on females and minorities.  But when you look at these statistics it starts to make sense.  And in the grand scheme I still turned out ok (so to speak), probably more a result of having a loving family and strong support system I could rely on.

I'm not out protesting or very vocal on these issues with social media or anything like that.  But I'm also in a position of influence in my community and I don't think it's ok for me to be complacent either.  Personally, I'm going through some equity, diversity and inclusion training that I sought out, if for nothing else just to gain better perspective and understanding.  Later this month I am bringing someone in to facilitate cultural proficiency training for our entire staff.  And I am working to form a diversity committee with a diverse makeup in terms of ethnic backgrounds, geography and personal experiences with a goal to review our service and program offerings, hiring and retention practices and other aspects of the organization in terms of racial equality.

It's easy to simply criticize the actions of others.  It's easy to not understand their frustrations and resentment.  But it's also not that difficult to take some time, do some self reflection and look at what we can do personally because we all should want to strive for what's just and fair.  I feel like I have been discriminated against, as a father through a divorce and looking at custody and child support.  I don't feel like what's happened to me has been fair.  I would venture to say we could all find examples of how we have been treated unfairly.  But we all should look at what we can do to be better humans, and show that this is probably an issue that deserves some attention.  Even if you don't always agree with the approach that others are taking.

 

You sound confused.  Maybe this will help - what we want is equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

[RLLD 3,455]

2 minutes ago, Patented Phil said:

You sound confused.  Maybe this will help - what we want is equality of opportunity, not equality of results.

That is great to hear, since there is no longer the Democrat-built barriers to opportunity in any way, then we are all set.  Now, time to stand up, and take action; no crying, marching, burning....none of that, but meaningful action...like the rest of us do...

[Patented Phil 823]

Btw - we do have equality of opportunity today.  It is established in law, and has been enforced for over 50 years.  If you want to get technical, the law actually favors minorities as they are a protected class.  So if you want up talk true systemic racism, that is the only place where it truly exists.

My advice would be to can the diversity classes and get some counseling for white guilt.

[Patented Phil 823]

You want to really help black people?  Then read this book.  https://www.amazon.com/Please-Stop-Helping-Us-Liberals-ebook/dp/B017GH546O/ref=nodl_

I’ve worked with alcoholics and drug addicts for almost 40 years.  The first reaction most people have - and what initially appears to be the humane one - is to feel sorry for these people and want to help solve their life problems.  If they are homeless, give them money and provide them with a place to stay.  In the world of addiction this is called enabling.  What the correct solution is, and what is actually the most humane way to treat these people, is to help them reach their bottom as quickly as possible.  So you do the opposite of enabling.  You hold them accountable and you cut off the means by which they can continue with their habit.  The absolute worst thing you can do is enable them.  It is totally counterintuitive but anyone who has ever worked in the field of addiction knows that tough love, and enforcing personal accountability, is the most loving thing you could ever do for that person.

I see similar parallels with how white people want to help blacks right now.  The problems in the black community today have nothing to do with lack of opportunity.  There’s never been a better time and place for a black person to accumulate wealth and live a safe, secure life.  And that’s just a fact. Truth is, it’s the black behaviors that need to change, and the best way to do that is to strengthen the black family unit, which Liberal policies have destroyed.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Complacent or Complicit?

 

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

Black people had a huge window of opportunity to be truly ingrained in american culture (like everyone else has) and have taken every chance they could to distance themselves from it and spit in our face. They could've said to themselves "Well now that colonialism is over, now that jim crow laws have been appealed, now that racism has been eradicted were going to live in harmony". Instead they said "No, now it's our turn."

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Some people start off less fortunate than others and have to work harder to get ahead. i have to work harder than someone born with a silver spoon in their mouth to get ahead. The white kids who grew up in the trailer park i lived in for a few years, as a kid myself, had a lower chance of becoming financially successful.

Complaining and crying about a bad situation isn't going to make it any better. In a time when there are plenty of rules that allow minorities to get ahead, and racism is at an all time low, they should be careful about shoving this shlt in our face every day all day through every single platform. Jason Whitlock gets it.

[RLLD 3,455]

18 minutes ago, Frozenbeernuts said:

Some people start off less fortunate than others and have to work harder to get ahead. i have to work harder than someone born with a silver spoon in their mouth to get ahead. The white kids who grew up in the trailer park i lived in for a few years, as a kid myself, had a lower chance of becoming financially successful.

Complaining and crying about a bad situation isn't going to make it any better. In a time when there are plenty of rules that allow minorities to get ahead, and racism is at an all time low, they should be careful about shoving this shlt in our face every day all day through every single platform. Jason Whitlock gets it.

We are not all equally positioned.  I will never be able to play in the NBA or understand complex mathematical equations like an Einstein or have a baby....

With hard work one can overcome some limitations, and no country in the history of the world has enabled the social mobility found here in the US.....and yet....envious people want to destroy it all.....focking sick

[Baker Boy 1,485]

The inequality in this Country is between the upper/ power class and the rest of us. And that includes many of the athletes standing in solidarity against us. It is actually hypocritical and insulting to see them stand for racial  equality.

 

[RLLD 3,455]

1 minute ago, Baker Boy said:

The inequality in this Country is between the upper/ power class and the rest of us. And that includes many of the athletes standing in solidarity against us. It is actually hypocritical and insulting to see them stand for racial  equality.

 

Based on leftist ideology, notably BLM, they didn't earn that money and it should be redistributed.....so I hope those morons are ready for the next stage in this socialist revolution.

[DexterM1776 79]

Show me a place in the whole world where the black man thrives.

The bell curve is very real.

[RLLD 3,455]

10 hours ago, DexterM1776 said:

Show me a place in the whole world where the black man thrives.

The bell curve is very real.

Wakanda.....

[DexterM1776 79]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

Wakanda.....

Sad isn't. Even Wakanda wouldn't let other Africans in.