Kennedy assassination

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Honestly, I'm willing to stipulate everything the government said about Oswald, the one gun, the magic bullet, and that he took 3 shots, etc, all happened

What I'm not willing to buy, is that LBJ and possibly the Democrat party (or high ranking members), had nothing to do with it.

The FBI never warned the Secret Service about Oswald being an American hating nut job and on their watch list.  Odd that a person who was like that... whom lived in Dallas and worked at the Book Depository, which was on the parade route, would not have been mentioned to the Secret Service - by the FBI.  Well, it's not odd unless the Secret Service never told the FBI about the route.

The Secret Service also counted that there was over 20k windows along the route.  They also deemed that since they didn't have enough people to man every window... not only did they not do that, they didn't check a single window.  None at all.  This is the President of the United Stats we're talking about here.  They didn't look at ANY window?  None?

The Secret Service was definitely involved. They would not have gotten involved unless someone important told them too.  Other than LBJ, who's on the list?  I'm thinking not many.

killary's first go at it. She proved her skills early on.

[BufordT 371]

7 hours ago, lod001 said:

They did but it was an accident. This is the only logical explanation that actually fits the scene.

#1. The govt is NEVER going to tell you that their agent focked up so bad he blew his own presidents head off with the only gun in the area that could cause the damage done. Think about it. It's not a good idea and a really bad idea back then during the cold war.

#2. Hickey rose up, while turning to address the direction of Oswald, the vehicle sped up, causing him to pull the trigger as the gun rose.

#3. All evidence magically disappeared along with threats to anyone who tried to tell what really happened. Eyewitness accounts however at the time told the story of gunpowder at street level. 

Pic of George Hickey carrying the weapon that killed Kennedy. This picture really is all you need to know.

They love to try and poke holes in this but their excuses like "no way a 1 in a million shot would hit it's target" are simply comical.

 

This theory was popularized in a 1992 book called Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK,” by Bonar Menninger. 

Hickey was still alive at the time and wound up suing Donahue, publisher St. Martin’s Press and Simon and Schuster.

Each case was settled and apologies were given. 

Hickey dies in 2011 so knowing that he can't sue him anymore Bonar Menninger gets a team together to make the doc JFK: The Smoking Gun that was released in 2013.

Far fetched theory at best.

[Cruzer 1,992]

6 hours ago, Gepetto said:

Maybe Oswald wasn't quite ready to take the shot.

Maybe Oswald thought it was an easier shot at a distance going straight away to give him more time to aim vs a faster moving target closer and moving side to side. 

Maybe his gun had a problem and he had to then wait until the car turned and proceeded onto the street the shot was taken toward.

Maybe he thought it would be harder for people to determine where the shots came from if he was further away, thus giving him a better chance to get away.

 

I recommend checking out what Oswald brother's opinion was. 

 

There were no other suspects. 

 

There was no proof of a shot from another location.

Huh???

Have you taken the tour, have you stood at that window? I have, twice.

If you buy into the Warren Commission narrative, Oswald was so enraged, so focused on killing JFK - his planning years in the making. This guy guy who laid so much groundwork, at the last minute, decided "MAYBE" he wasn't ready, maybe he all of the sudden opted for a better escape route, etc... 

That's ridiculous... According to Gerald Posner and the rest, Oswald had this planned to a T. 

Take the tour, stand at that window - I think you will see otherwise. 

[Gepetto 979]

11 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Huh???

Have you taken the tour, have you stood at that window? I have, twice.

If you buy into the Warren Commission narrative, Oswald was so enraged, so focused on killing JFK - his planning years in the making. This guy guy who laid so much groundwork, at the last minute, decided "MAYBE" he wasn't ready, maybe he all of the sudden opted for a better escape route, etc... 

That's ridiculous... According to Gerald Posnser and the rest, Oswald had this planned to a T. 

Take the tour, stand at that window - I think you will see otherwise. 

I've taken the tour and stood at the window.  I'm sure there's a reason he took the shot where he did, I don't know if anyone knows.

[Cruzer 1,992]

1 minute ago, Gepetto said:

I've taken the tour and stood at the window.  I'm sure there's a reason he took the shot where he did, I don't know if anyone knows.

Law of Nature - path of least resistance.

4th qtr., 30 secs left, need a score, 4th down.. you want 4th and 2, or 4th and 10 to continue the drive? Path of least resistance.

72nd hole, need a 4 to win a Green Jacket.. you want a 335 downhill par 4, or a 460 yard up hill one? Path of least resistance.

If you buy into the Oswald smokescreen, there's no way a guy that enraged, that focused, that prepared - all the sudden opted for a shot 100 times more risky than the head on shot he had. 

[Gepetto 979]

 

https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/35445 

 

On top of what so many heard, one must consider what so many saw. A number of key eyewitnesses, including Howard Brennan, the Dallas construction worker who looked up and saw Oswald firing from the sixth floor, and James Jarman, Jr., a Book Depository employee who was looking down on the motorcade from the fifth floor, testified that the first shot occurred a short distance down Elm Street, just after the president’s limousine turned left from Houston. “And after the president had passed my position,” Brennan testified, “I really couldn’t say how many feet or how far, a short distance I would say, I heard this crack that I positively thought was a backfire.” (15) Jarman recalled, “After the motorcade turned, going west on Elm, then there was a loud shot, or backfire, as I thought it was then.” (16) Both these accounts coincided with the testimony of Wesley Frazier, another Book Depository employee, who was standing on the steps at the entrance. “ . . . just right after [the president]  went by—he hadn’t hardly got by—I heard a sound,” Frazier said in sworn testimony. (17)

[BeenHereBefore 1,329]

15 hours ago, lod001 said:

They did but it was an accident. This is the only logical explanation that actually fits the scene.

#1. The govt is NEVER going to tell you that their agent focked up so bad he blew his own presidents head off with the only gun in the area that could cause the damage done. Think about it. It's not a good idea and a really bad idea back then during the cold war.

#2. Hickey rose up, while turning to address the direction of Oswald, the vehicle sped up, causing him to pull the trigger as the gun rose.

#3. All evidence magically disappeared along with threats to anyone who tried to tell what really happened. Eyewitness accounts however at the time told the story of gunpowder at street level. 

Pic of George Hickey carrying the weapon that killed Kennedy. This picture really is all you need to know.

They love to try and poke holes in this but their excuses like "no way a 1 in a million shot would hit it's target" are simply comical.

 

I was talking about his Limo driver William Greer shooting him. I read the book you are talking about and believe it was called Mortal Error and don't agree with it. SS was definitely involve but not by accident. I actually have Mortal Error on paper back and like 5 others books on it I read in the past. Just glad most people don't think Oswald acted alone.

[TBayXXXVII 2,107]

15 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

killary's first go at it. She proved her skills early on.

LOL, she MAY not have been a psycho yet.  She was probably only in high school in the early 60's.

[BeenHereBefore 1,329]

I pretty much figured it out in the 90's in my opinion enough to satisfy myself. Went on to looking into other big American mysteries like The Zodiac Killer a few years later.

[BeenHereBefore 1,329]

Think I know that one as well but it won't be solved other then DNA. Was a cluster fock between three police agencies not corresponding with each other.

[lod001 1,235]

21 hours ago, BufordT said:

This theory was popularized in a 1992 book called Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK,” by Bonar Menninger. 

Hickey was still alive at the time and wound up suing Donahue, publisher St. Martin’s Press and Simon and Schuster.

Each case was settled and apologies were given. 

Hickey dies in 2011 so knowing that he can't sue him anymore Bonar Menninger gets a team together to make the doc JFK: The Smoking Gun that was released in 2013.

Far fetched theory at best.

Actually its the one that best fits what happened. All the 'holes' they try and poke thru it and what is far fetched. Grassy knoll -  Stupid. Conspiracy, just as dumb.

Fact is, Hickey is pictured behind him holding the gun that would have caused that kind of damage. A SS agent who had never fired the gun in his life.

[lod001 1,235]

14 hours ago, BeenHereBefore said:

I was talking about his Limo driver William Greer shooting him. I read the book you are talking about and believe it was called Mortal Error and don't agree with it. SS was definitely involve but not by accident. I actually have Mortal Error on paper back and like 5 others books on it I read in the past. Just glad most people don't think Oswald acted alone.

Gotcha. Yeah, the level of stupid in that is off the charts. Never believed any of the conspiracy BS. However after watching the documentary on Hickey scenario, it simply is the hardest to deny. The coverup by the govt is the logical move at the time.

[BeenHereBefore 1,329]

5 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Gotcha. Yeah, the level of stupid in that is off the charts. Never believed any of the conspiracy BS. However after watching the documentary on Hickey scenario, it simply is the hardest to deny. The coverup by the govt is the logical move at the time.

Just glad we agree on Oswald not pulling it off alone.

[BufordT 371]

4 hours ago, lod001 said:

Actually its the one that best fits what happened. All the 'holes' they try and poke thru it and what is far fetched. Grassy knoll -  Stupid. Conspiracy, just as dumb.

Fact is, Hickey is pictured behind him holding the gun that would have caused that kind of damage. A SS agent who had never fired the gun in his life.

Again, the author was sued. Paid restitution and apologized.  Have a nice day.

[Cruzer 1,992]

Hickey was riding in a jump car w/2 Admin officials (AND) 7 other SS agents - each entrusted and trained to protect the President.

So he pulls off a shot - and not one of them reacted? Not a single one of the SS agents, again entrusted to protect the President, reacted to a rifle shot, fired a mere foot or two away? Good lord, talk about the Abbott and Costello squad - what an embarrassing stain on that unit. For all they knew, one of theirs went rogue - they should of been all over him. 

When you factor in (also) the astronomical odds of Hickey hitting Kennedy square smack in the skull - it's just such a reach. One I can't lend any credence to. 

[lod001 1,235]

17 hours ago, BufordT said:

Again, the author was sued. Paid restitution and apologized.  Have a nice day.

Doesn't mean a thing. The decision to settle the case was made because "lawyers are expensive and we have no quarrel with Mr. Hickey," Kaye said.

[supermike80 1,285]

15 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Hickey was riding in a jump car w/2 Admin officials (AND) 7 other SS agents - each entrusted and trained to protect the President.

So he pulls off a shot - and not one of them reacted? Not a single one of the SS agents, again entrusted to protect the President, reacted to a rifle shot, fired a mere foot or two away? Good lord, talk about the Abbott and Costello squad - what an embarrassing stain on that unit. For all they knew, one of theirs went rogue - they should of been all over him. 

When you factor in (also) the astronomical odds of Hickey hitting Kennedy square smack in the skull - it's just such a reach. One I can't lend any credence to. 

BUT BUT BUT...Gubbermint CONSPIRACY!!!  I mean the EASIEST explanation!!!  GUBBERMINT CONSPIRACY!!!!

[lod001 1,235]

15 hours ago, Cruzer said:

Hickey was riding in a jump car w/2 Admin officials (AND) 7 other SS agents - each entrusted and trained to protect the President.

So he pulls off a shot - and not one of them reacted? Not a single one of the SS agents, again entrusted to protect the President, reacted to a rifle shot, fired a mere foot or two away? Good lord, talk about the Abbott and Costello squad - what an embarrassing stain on that unit. For all they knew, one of theirs went rogue - they should of been all over him. 

When you factor in (also) the astronomical odds of Hickey hitting Kennedy square smack in the skull - it's just such a reach. One I can't lend any credence to. 

He didn't 'pull off the shot'. He accidentally pulled the trigger as he turned to engage the location of Oswalds shots and the car at the same time sped up, throwing him off balance.

If you are an SS agent in that car are you really going to start blabbering that Hickey effed up? Nope cause that's the way you find yourself set up and at best out of a job and at worst, in prison via a set up for child molesting. You need to know how the tight the SS is.

Saying it's not possible BECAUSE it's a 1 in a million is a really bad way to justify it can't be that scenario. In fact, it's the worst excuse possible. The bullet is gonna hit something in the direction it flew and that direction was his head.

[lod001 1,235]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

BUT BUT BUT...Gubbermint CONSPIRACY!!!  I mean the EASIEST explanation!!!  GUBBERMINT CONSPIRACY!!!!

Coverup. Coverup up the worst eff up in the Secret Service's history. If someone can come up with a better scenario, I'm all ears. No other scenario comes as close to the truth as Mortal Error. Not grassy knoll, not Oswald got 2 of 3 shots off and both hit Kennedy's head, not the comical, the driver did it. Certainly not the SS did it on purpose.

[supermike80 1,285]

4 minutes ago, lod001 said:

Coverup. Coverup up the worst eff up in the Secret Service's history. If someone can come up with a better scenario, I'm all ears. No other scenario comes as close to the truth as Mortal Error. Not grassy knoll, not Oswald got 2 of 3 shots off and both hit Kennedy's head, not the comical, the driver did it. Certainly not the SS did it on purpose.

Better scenario?  Yeah..Oswald acted alone.  

Boom.  There is PLENTY of evidence to support that theory. 

[vuduchile 1,940]

53 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Better scenario?  Yeah..Oswald acted alone.  

Boom.  There is PLENTY of evidence to support that theory. 

There's at least as much evidence to the contrary.

[Cruzer 1,992]

10 hours ago, lod001 said:

He didn't 'pull off the shot'. He accidentally pulled the trigger as he turned to engage the location of Oswalds shots and the car at the same time sped up, throwing him off balance.

If you are an SS agent in that car are you really going to start blabbering that Hickey effed up? Nope cause that's the way you find yourself set up and at best out of a job and at worst, in prison via a set up for child molesting. You need to know how the tight the SS is.

So at the instant of that shot - "that" second, ALL 7 seven of the other SS agents, trained to protect the President, all instantly, all simultaneously - concluded the shot was accidental and immediately went into coverup mode to protect their own??? 

Wow.....ok.