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Traitor Pence

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Has he been hung up by the balls yet?

I'll check back

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What's he supposed to the do. The states made their choice they knew what they were sending to the government. They aren't going to change their mind.

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New states coming, SCOTUS getting packed. This will happen now. Half the country has no say. If you think that's not leading to violence you are mistaken. 

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The whole "storming" of the capitol building was just a ruse so dems could sneak in more mail-in electoral votes.

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2 hours ago, nobody said:

The whole "storming" of the capitol building was just a ruse so dems could sneak in more mail-in electoral votes.

Much like your mom the Friday before the welfare checks come out...HA

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He refused to reject electors.

But he had no legal ground to reject them.  The courts don't have his back nor have the state legislatures de-certified them. Had he gotten either one, he'd have a legal opening to push the election into SCOTUS and the House of Representatives, but having neither deprives him of that option. IMO. We can't have an incumbent administration go down that road.

We have principals. The Constitution matters to our side. Whatever it says, that's what we do. We're not leftists who just do what they want to do,  ignore the words of the law,  re-interpret it to suit their needs, and wipe their ass on the document. There are Constitutionally appropriate ways to challenge the fraud in this election, we tried them, and failed. 

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45 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

The Constitution matters to our side. Whatever it says, that's what we do. We're not leftists who just do what they want to do,  ignore the words of the law,  re-interpret it to suit their needs, and wipe their ass on the document. There are Constitutionally appropriate ways to challenge the fraud in this election, we tried them, and failed. 

this is EXTREMELY misguided.  I have repeatedly refuted this sentiment in this forum.  What you are saying WAS true until 2016.  In 2016, a key demographic flipped.  starting in 2016, if you have less than a college degree, you voted REPUBLICAN.  Before 2016, they voted democrat.  The lower classes and the poor shifted to the REPUBLICAN side in 2016.  THAT group of people aren't interested in falling on their own sword to respect the law.  They are outlaws.  Just like the founding fathers were outlaws.  

The new GOP post 2016 is the one that WILL storm the Capitol, that WILL revolt, that will do what it takes to win.

You are living in the past.

ive heard this sentiment today on radio and tv and it is out of date.

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1 hour ago, JustinCharge said:

this is EXTREMELY misguided.  I have repeatedly refuted this sentiment in this forum.  What you are saying WAS true until 2016.  In 2016, a key demographic flipped.  starting in 2016, if you have less than a college degree, you voted REPUBLICAN.  Before 2016, they voted democrat.  The lower classes and the poor shifted to the REPUBLICAN side in 2016.  THAT group of people aren't interested in falling on their own sword to respect the law.  They are outlaws.  Just like the founding fathers were outlaws.  

The new GOP post 2016 is the one that WILL storm the Capitol, that WILL revolt, that will do what it takes to win.

You are living in the past.

ive heard this sentiment today on radio and tv and it is out of date.

To live in a democracy, there has to be legitimacy of the government in the eyes of the population. You don't have that if (I don't know how to phrase this in a way that doesn't irritate me) the incumbent leader refuses to step aside when the process plays out and determines that somebody else should be the leader. We still have to live with these Biden* voters, they're half the country and they've got every right to be infuriate if Trump tries to hold onto power this way.

Patsfatboy makes a great point. When I say "Look at these links, here's a ton of evidence that the election was rigged." He says, "(I don't want to click your link and look at the evidence or think about the evidence because not only do I prefer Biden, but)the courts have already tossed that evidence out. Even Trump judges." Then I point out how "it's all on technicalities not on merits... " ".... blah blah blah not in hearing it, don't want to look. I don't want to think about it. Orange Man Bad. I like getting my news from Don Lemon. You're the crazy one." Gone. Tuned out. What can I do/say? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him click.

So long as President Trump was fighting his battles in court and on Constitutional grounds, he had a chance. But step outside that and ignore the Constitution and I don't know how to formulate a justification to the good decent people who voted for Biden*, are happy he's on track to be installed, and refuse to look at the evidence and click the links. To them a Trump administration that stays in power by ignoring the Electoral College would be illegitimate. Especially since many already hate the Electoral College anyway.

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2 hours ago, Voltaire said:

To live in a democracy, there has to be legitimacy of the government in the eyes of the population. You don't have that if (I don't know how to phrase this in a way that doesn't irritate me) the incumbent leader refuses to step aside when the process plays out and determines that somebody else should be the leader. We still have to live with these Biden* voters, they're half the country and they've got every right to be infuriate if Trump tries to hold onto power this way.

Patsfatboy makes a great point. When I say "Look at these links, here's a ton of evidence that the election was rigged." He says, "(I don't want to click your link and look at the evidence or think about the evidence because not only do I prefer Biden, but)the courts have already tossed that evidence out. Even Trump judges." Then I point out how "it's all on technicalities not on merits... " ".... blah blah blah not in hearing it, don't want to look. I don't want to think about it. Orange Man Bad. I like getting my news from Don Lemon. You're the crazy one." Gone. Tuned out. What can I do/say? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him click.

So long as President Trump was fighting his battles in court and on Constitutional grounds, he had a chance. But step outside that and ignore the Constitution and I don't know how to formulate a justification to the good decent people who voted for Biden*, are happy he's on track to be installed, and refuse to look at the evidence and click the links. To them a Trump administration that stays in power by ignoring the Electoral College would be illegitimate. Especially since many already hate the Electoral College anyway.

We don't live in a Democracy, we live in a Federal Republic.

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2 hours ago, Voltaire said:

Patsfatboy makes a great point. When I say "Look at these links, here's a ton of evidence that the election was rigged." He says, "(I don't want to click your link and look at the evidence or think about the evidence because not only do I prefer Biden, but)the courts have already tossed that evidence out. Even Trump judges." Then I point out how "it's all on technicalities not on merits... " ".... blah blah blah not in hearing it, don't want to look. I don't want to think about it. Orange Man Bad. I like getting my news from Don Lemon. You're the crazy one." Gone. Tuned out. What can I do/say? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him click.

The evidence has all been overturned in court of law on merits, not on technicalities. There is no conspiracy to steal the election from Trump, if the Democrats had that power they would have stole the last election.

In any conspiracy theory you are going to have videos that look suspicious, this goes for 911, moon landing, etc. The number of people required to steal an election would be extraordinary and the chance of one of them talking is too high.

All of the ballets have been recounted multiple times and checked for accuracy multiple times. I have no reason not to believe Trump's own attorney general.

 

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Trump’s strategy should tell you everything you need to know about the “fraud.”

Publicly, he talks about dead voters and suitcases full of ballots etc. and waives around affidavits signed by the people he’s been urging to ferret out “fraud” all year.

Legally he goes after only closely contested swing states and tries to get mail in ballots thrown out for procedural reasons. Failing that he begs Republican legislatures to outright overturn the vote.

Trump is what we thought he was.

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14 hours ago, Cdub100 said:

What's he supposed to the do. The states made their choice they knew what they were sending to the government. They aren't going to change their mind.

Exactly

 

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50 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

The evidence has all been overturned in court of law on merits, not on technicalities. There is no conspiracy to steal the election from Trump, if the Democrats had that power they would have stole the last election.

In any conspiracy theory you are going to have videos that look suspicious, this goes for 911, moon landing, etc. The number of people required to steal an election would be extraordinary and the chance of one of them talking is too high.

All of the ballets have been recounted multiple times and checked for accuracy multiple times. I have no reason not to believe Trump's own attorney general.

 

There was fraud. Lots of it. Call it what you want, conspiracy, whatever, doesn’t matter to me. Same result as if it were a conspiracy. Every crime isn’t cooked up in a secret lair. 

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3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

There was fraud. Lots of it. Call it what you want, conspiracy, whatever, doesn’t matter to me. Same result as if it were a conspiracy. Every crime isn’t cooked up in a secret lair. 

Then why does the leader of the justice department, Trump's own handpicked guy, say otherwise.

 

Barr told the AP that U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but “to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”

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Just now, MTSkiBum said:

Then why does the leader of the justice department, Trump's own handpicked guy, say otherwise.

He’s been absorbed by the Deep State of course!

 

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57 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

The evidence has all been overturned in court of law on merits, not on technicalities. There is no conspiracy to steal the election from Trump, if the Democrats had that power they would have stole the last election.

In any conspiracy theory you are going to have videos that look suspicious, this goes for 911, moon landing, etc. The number of people required to steal an election would be extraordinary and the chance of one of them talking is too high.

All of the ballets have been recounted multiple times and checked for accuracy multiple times. I have no reason not to believe Trump's own attorney general.

 

They didn’t have to steal the last election. It was in the bag, no one thought he would win, remember? Why cheat on a grand scale if you don’t have to? Why take the risk? 

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2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

They didn’t have to steal the last election. It was in the bag, no one thought he would win, remember? Why cheat on a grand scale if you don’t have to? Why take the risk? 

Agree to disagree.

 

I believe there is a chance that Voltaire can still see the truth.

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6 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

Then why does the leader of the justice department, Trump's own handpicked guy, say otherwise.

 

Barr told the AP that U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but “to date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election.”

Maybe they haven’t yet. Maybe it takes time? The left has been screaming “no evidence” from the jump. The Russian interernce investigation took years. Why would you think this would take months? When they take the time to interview the hundreds of eyewitness’s who have testified under the threat of perjury let me know. They haven’t. And probably won’t. Why? Aren’t whistle blowers to be taken seriously? 

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3 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

They didn’t have to steal the last election. It was in the bag, no one thought he would win, remember? Why cheat on a grand scale if you don’t have to? Why take the risk? 

It was in the bag?  He didn't even win the popular vote.  He definitely won but I wouldn't say it was in the bag.

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Hillary thought it was in the bag for her.  Man, you're having trouble keeping up today.

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2 minutes ago, nobody said:

Hillary thought it was in the bag for her.  Man, you're having trouble keeping up today.

I misunderstood, I thought he meant it was in the bag for Trump.  Yes, everyone thought it was in the bag for Hilary, I agree.

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9 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

Agree to disagree.

 

I believe there is a chance that Voltaire can still see the truth.

And you ignore it. All those eyewitness’s are part of a conspiracy? All of them are lying or got it wrong? Some are, sure. But all? There’s a lot. Odds are some of them have a legit story to tell. But you’re not interested. 

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12 minutes ago, nobody said:

Hillary thought it was in the bag for her.  Man, you're having trouble keeping up today.

He gets excited about me. Lots of them do. RPDS

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Millions and millions of people are convinced there was fraud in the election. Imagine what would happen if it were proven? Why would any sitting government unleash that kind of fury? It would make what happened yesterday look like a boisterous PTA meeting. Even the opposition that still hold office don’t want that. That’s why it’s ignored and swept under the rug. Not that it didn’t happen, but because it did. If it didn’t happen we would have an investigative committee set up already so they could prove it didn’t happen. At this point if we get one it will be a sham. Why would people who won an election want to show they didn’t or had help? 

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Obviously he’s been abducted by deep state operatives and it’s a scooby doo villain scenario with a realistic mask and everything. Thats why yesterday was a spec ops psy ops recon delta bravo on my 6 roger 10-4 mission.

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time will tell Boys....time will tell

🍿:lock:

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1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Millions and millions of people are convinced there was fraud in the election. Imagine what would happen if it were proven? Why would any sitting government unleash that kind of fury? It would make what happened yesterday look like a boisterous PTA meeting. Even the opposition that still hold office don’t want that. That’s why it’s ignored and swept under the rug. Not that it didn’t happen, but because it did. If it didn’t happen we would have an investigative committee set up already so they could prove it didn’t happen. At this point if we get one it will be a sham. Why would people who won an election want to show they didn’t or had help? 

 

No imagine the opposite. Imagine that Trump sent his own people to each of the contested districts and multiple investigations and recounts were performed with no evidence of large scale voter fraud. Imagine that Trump's own hand picked leader of the justice department found no fraud.

Imagine that the election were overturned on the whim of 1 guy whose own team did not find any fraud based on videos of people carrying briefcases and other such nonsense. That is a dictatorship.

 

America, the greatest country ever.

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On topic, the few times I have mentioned pence on these forums I have been positive. I would easily vote for him over Biden and I hope he is the nominee in 2024.

 

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31 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

No imagine the opposite. Imagine that Trump sent his own people to each of the contested districts and multiple investigations and recounts were performed with no evidence of large scale voter fraud. Imagine that Trump's own hand picked leader of the justice department found no fraud.

Imagine that the election were overturned on the whim of 1 guy whose own team did not find any fraud based on videos of people carrying briefcases and other such nonsense. That is a dictatorship.

 

America, the greatest country ever.

You’re putting credibility on an investigation that was at least rushed? What is the harm in looking into it, for real? Like I said, we can spend years on the Russia matter, that nobody cared about, but weeks at best on this? Why? Facebook posts get the full Monty, and everyone is told to shut up about this? Not being curious is being willfully ignorant. 

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4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You’re putting credibility on an investigation that was at least rushed? What is the harm in looking into it, for real? Like I said, we can spend years on the Russia matter, that nobody cared about, but weeks at best on this? Why? Facebook posts get the full Monty, and everyone is told to shut up about this? Not being curious is being willfully ignorant. 

The election was 2 months ago. Plenty of time to at least find something credible. Didn't happen and not for a lack of trying (and lying). 

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3 hours ago, MTSkiBum said:

The evidence has all been overturned in court of law on merits, not on technicalities. There is no conspiracy to steal the election from Trump, if the Democrats had that power they would have stole the last election.

In any conspiracy theory you are going to have videos that look suspicious, this goes for 911, moon landing, etc. The number of people required to steal an election would be extraordinary and the chance of one of them talking is too high.

All of the ballets have been recounted multiple times and checked for accuracy multiple times. I have no reason not to believe Trump's own attorney general.

 

You don't know what you're talking about but I know it's not your fault and I don't blame you. I know you and everyone else have all been lied to constantly about this and I know you didn't care enough to have looked into it because you may not have had time or were happy with the result. To have spent as much time on this as I have, you have to be both as invested in the outcome as I am and have as much free time as I do. And that's not you, it's not your fault, and I don't blame you.

Let me walk you through the Michigan case. It;s my home state and so I know it best. What you are saying is totally false and I can prove it to you using only MSM sources. Once you see that it's false, I hope that you will agree with me that what happened shouldn't be the case. You say in this post that "all the ballots have checked for accuracy multiple times" and I say to you in no uncertain terms that there here has never been independent access to the ballots in Michigan. Further, I can prove it to you. You say the lawsuits were dismissed on merits, I say technicalities. Maybe you'll read the bullsh*t MSM story covering and try to claim it is merit, but you'll never convince me of that and if you're honest with yourself, you'll see I'm right. I hope. I'll provide links to bullsh*t MSM totally-in-the-tank-for-Biden* sources and you can judge 'merit' or 'technicality' for yourself.

You see, checking the ballots after being denied access to poll watchers to observe them is the entire point of the lawsuits. It's what I've been calling for the entire time and it's why I know you are being lied to and spreading false information. That has not happened. Read my links, every one of the writers is an MSM puppet who wants to work at CNN and shove their tongue up Don Lemon's .

After seeing the damning testimonial from Michigan poll observers, I wanted some answers. I wanted ballots and records checked. That's what you say has happened, it's what you think happened, but in fact you don't know that you are misinformed. The opposite, the Dems are fighing tooth-and-nail to prevent it from happening. That has never happened. Now, we're one of the big states for having a Diebold counting machine fiasco but don't ask me to explain that, I cannot. I could post a link from a fellow named Dr. Shiva but I doubt anyone would click it, since nobody ever clicks my links or comments on them, they just stick their head in the sand instead. Sadly now, rather than get frustrated, I'm resigned to knowing that I am being ignored.

As for the rest of the country. I simply didn't have enough patience or endurance or asprin to talk about the rest of the country, so after a few weeks, and the constant stream of BS, I largely zoned out and started playing computer games all day. I watched the Pennsylvania testimony and have followed Georgia relatively well. While I can tell you with certainty that the Michigan ballots have not been checked for accuracy, there is a chance the Wisconsin ones were.It's the only state that an audit may have happened that I am aware of but I stopped following that story in favor of maintaining my sanity.

Anyway, in Michigan, auditors have never looked at the ballots and the courts never looked at the evidence either. Rise Repeat Arizona, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and maybe, or maybe not, Wisconsin. You have been sold a lie. Probably. I can only say for sure you have been sold a lie about Michigan because, again, I have only followed Michigan close enough to know for sure. But I do believe the story repeats in these other five states although I am open to being proven wrong in any instance. 

Here we go, using only MSM sources written by sh*tbags who dream of a participating in threesome with Maxine Watters and  Rashida Talib:

----

November 5th, attempts to stop counting ballots without inspectors present. Dismissed for 'heresay" also denied access to video footage of ballot drop boxes.

https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2020/11/05/michigan-judge-dismisses-trumps-election-lawsuit

-------

The Wayne County results were rigged and the Republican canvassers were harassed, threatened and intimidated into certifying them with promises of an audit but then the state backed out of it's promise, kept the certification and the canvassers tried to decertify. But you won't get much of that from this bullsh*t story. It's only about Trump dropping the lawsuit and is safely Orange Man Bad, Canvassers bad, Democrats Good, nothing improper to see here so feel free to click it.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-19/trump-campaign-seeks-to-withdraw-michigan-election-suit

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December 4th Trump campaign trying to gain access to ballots, court doesn't look at evidence, suit dismissed for technicalities. What I call technicalities, click the link and tell me again it was dismissed for merit.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/12/04/court-rejects-another-trump-election-lawsuit/3832050001/

-------

Anyway, anyway, I am telling you explicitly and in no uncertain terms that Detroit ballots have not been inspected, they have not been examined except by the people that processed them with inspectors barred from the room and with cardboard covering the windows. And I provided links exclusivly from sh*tbag MSM sources in the tank for Biden* to prove it to you. I am not making this sh*t up. Now it's your turn to either back up your claim that "ballots have been checked for accuracy multiple times" or admit that I am right and you were mistaken. It would be nice if you admitted the lawsuits were dismissed on technicalities rather than merit but you know.... I like you too much to force those words back down your throat. I know you've been lied to as everyone has on this and that you don't know what you're talking about, whereas Michigan election rigging and the voting fiasco in that state is kind of my specialty.

I wouldn't mind playing this game in another state, I tried to get patsfatboy to take me up on the offer but he refused.

-----

And again... I know nobody wants to click it.... this is what happened on election night in Detroit. This woman's video just utterly shatters my confidence in my hometown (I'm from Macomb County, not Wayne but next door just a half mile north of 8 Mile), my state and my nation. This sh*t should not be tolerated in America.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDqbRtkMkXE

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4 minutes ago, Patriotsfatboy1 said:

The election was 2 months ago. Plenty of time to at least find something credible. Didn't happen and not for a lack of trying (and lying). 

So all the witnesses aren’t credible? Why? All of them? I don’t want an insurrection. Just an investigation. Why is that some crackpot request? I never once said Trump was getting this overturned. I knew it was over the day after the election . And I will say Trump should not have been giving false hope. His worst move as president. He shouid have put his head down, and went about whatever constitutional remedies that were available, minus the rhetoric. The bigger issue was the fraud, not him staying in office. He’s gone but the fraud isn’t.  And that’s not good. 

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40 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

You don't know what you're talking about but I know it's not your fault and I don't blame you. I know you and everyone else have all been lied to constantly about this and I know you didn't care enough to have looked into it because you may not have had time or were happy with the result. To have spent as much time on this as I have, you have to be both as invested in the outcome as I am and have as much free time as I do. And that's not you, it's not your fault, and I don't blame you.

 

 

I hate quoting walls of text, but i did read your links and your post. I have no doubt you believe what you believe based on research. I can guarantee Sandy Hook truthers also spent considerable more time than me investigating sandy hook, but that does not mean they are correct.

 

I am sorry that you feel the way that you do and hopefully there will be evidence in the future that you find credible that can help restore your faith in our great country.

 

edit, I was never a biden supporter. To be honest i did not care about this election until what Trump did after the results. I would have been fine with Trump prior to this, he did not do anything in the last couple years to make me mad and I believe my posting of Trump has reflected that.

I did not care until he tried to steal an election and at the same time cause his base to lose faith in the democratic process.

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Trump set Pence up and then throw him under the bus. Dude has absolutely no loyalties to anybody except himself.

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1 hour ago, MTSkiBum said:

 

I hate quoting walls of text, but i did read your links and your post. I have no doubt you believe what you believe based on research. I can guarantee Sandy Hook truthers also spent considerable more time than me investigating sandy hook, but that does not mean they are correct.

 

I am sorry that you feel the way that you do and hopefully there will be evidence in the future that you find credible that can help restore your faith in our great country.

 

edit, I was never a biden supporter. To be honest i did not care about this election until what Trump did after the results. I would have been fine with Trump prior to this, he did not do anything in the last couple years to make me mad and I believe my posting of Trump has reflected that.

I did not care until he tried to steal an election and at the same time cause his base to lose faith in the democratic process.

I am not a Sandy Hook truther. Where did that come from? I wouldn't have ever pulled that card on you. I just caught you making three factually false statements. I know they're not your words, you're just parroting the MSM. 

You're the one that tried to assure me by saying "all the ballots have been checked for accuracy multiple times." Well, have I not just proven to you that is not the case in Michigan? Not only haven't they been checked one time, they were processed with election observers locked out of the room with the windows covered and access to them ever since has been blocked by the courts. I believe they will be shredded without ever being checked at all but that is speculation. 

You also also assured me, before you read my links, and thank you for doing so, that the lawsuits were dismissed based on merit not technicalities. Well, that's another thing that would make me feel better too if it were true but I gave you this: https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/12/04/court-rejects-another-trump-election-lawsuit/3832050001/

Do you still stand by that statement now? Dismissed on merits my ass. The Granholm appointed judges didn't ever look at the evidence, they were tuned in to the Rachel Maddow show instead.

Everything you assured me happened, should have happened. I agree. It's very refreshing that you want to believe that, I want to believe that's what happens too in every election. But now that you know that it didn't happen, it occurs to me that maybe you should be the one re-evaluating their conclusion, and not me.

I'm telling you the Dems have fought that very outcome about looking at the ballots multiple times, your definition of what would constitute in your eyes a fair election assuring me of this is how it works, they have fought your description of a fair election tooth-and-nail successfully around the country (except possibly Wisconsin).  and I showed it to you and you should now say either, "Yes, I now realize the ballots have not been checked for accuracy a single time in Michigan (or anywhere else except, well, you know) and also that they were counted without observers present but I still believe the election wasn't rigged because (Bill Barr says it wasn't and I trust him more than myself)...." or at least. "Well, I now see why you think this election was rigged in Michigan."

Instead, you compared me to a Sandy Hook truther. Don't worry, I have thick skin. I'll just pretend you didn't write that and you'll never see me bring it up again. You read my links and engaged the content. it's more than most people do and I appreciate that.

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7 hours ago, Voltaire said:

To live in a democracy, there has to be legitimacy of the government in the eyes of the population.

I agree.  But that has nothing to do with what is going on right now.  The government effectively fell on 1/6.  There is no longer a democracy.  We are now facing acts of war in wartime.

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