Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Mike FF Today

Deshaun Watson in Miami, Tua in Houston?

Recommended Posts

Super Bowl Contender 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Why?  That article has nothing to do with Deshaun Watson going to Dallas.  And if the Cowboys would never ever in a million years trade Lamb for a downgrade to Watson, they would never ever EVER in a BILLION years trade Lamb for a QB with very little tread left on the tires.

Sportswriters have to do something in the offseason; wild speculation gives them a chance to be quoted on message boards by people who want to justify their own wild speculations.

Because it intimates that the Cowboys are willing to move on from Dak and trade for a better QB.  It shows they're willing to trade a great WR to acquire that QB.  You think Watson is a downgrade from Dak?  Lamb + a #1 pick and something else, would probably be enough to get Watson.  Watson is probably the 3rd best young QB in the NFL right now behind only Mahomes and Allen.  The Cowboys don't need Lamb.  They have Cooper and Gallup.  Heck, I'm willing to bet that they could get Juju on a relatively cheap deal to replace him.  They could trade Cooper as well, but I just don't think the Texans would want an older/expensive WR when they don't have a locked in QB.

Heck, maybe the two work out a deal that includes Dak and Cooper for Watson.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, weepaws said:

Sorry, but I think I’d rather have Dak and Lamb.  

 

I think you would be the only one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think you would be the only one.

That’s ok, I’m the only one that’s right, as usually is the case. 

Dak and Lamb is over paying for Watson.  

When I can keep a Qb that’s just as productive and my best wr going forward.  

Cowboys would be giving up way to much.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, weepaws said:

That’s ok, I’m the only one that’s right, as usually is the case. 

Dak and Lamb is over paying for Watson.  

When I can keep a Qb that’s just as productive and my best wr going forward.  

Cowboys would be giving up way to much.  

 

This year proved that Dak makes that offense go, not Fruit Loops.  No way Dallas makes that trade, nor should they.  I agree with weepaws here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our the Bucs a Super Bowl Contender?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Because it intimates that the Cowboys are willing to move on from Dak and trade for a better QB.

It intimates that a bored sportswriter is willing to float the theory.  It says nothing about what the actual Cowboys team management is thinking--and even though they are the Cowboys, they're not morons.  I mean they might move on from Dak if Mahomes was available, but that's about it.

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

It shows they're willing to trade a great WR to acquire that QB.

See above.  It says NOTHING about what the Cowboys are willing to do; it says only what the sportswriter thinks they COULD do.

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You think Watson is a downgrade from Dak?

Yes; not that it matters--it only matters what the Cowboys think.

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

The Cowboys don't need Lamb.  They have Cooper and Gallup. 

And Lamb is the best of the three.  They're not dealing Lamb.

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Heck, I'm willing to bet that they could get Juju on a relatively cheap deal to replace him.

Sure, if they're already downgrading at QB, might as well downgrade at WR too!

This whole proposal is about one weepaw away from total nonsense; I can't understand why you would work so hard to defend nonsense?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think you would be the only one.

Wow, you've totally turned this thing on its head--and I'm not just defending weepaws.

In reality, you're probly the only one who would rather have Watson than Dak and Lamb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Wow, you've totally turned this thing on its head--and I'm not just defending weepaws.

In reality, you're probly the only one who would rather have Watson than Dak and Lamb.

Watson is a star, Dak is a JAG.  Lamb isn't enough to make up for the difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure Dak is currently a FA so how would Dallas trade him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Watson is a star, Dak is a JAG.

I understand that this is your opinion, but objectively, their career stats are pretty similar.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, kutulu said:

Pretty sure Dak is currently a FA so how would Dallas trade him?

They can tag him and work out a deal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

They can tag him and work out a deal.

Maybe they can but Dak has a ton of leverage. No one is gonna trade for him without a long term contact in place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, kutulu said:

Maybe they can but Dak has a ton of leverage. No one is gonna trade for him without a long term contact in place.

Yeah, but he'll still take a deal that he likes.  For example, the Cowboys tag Dak.  The Texans work out a deal with Dak that he likes and extend him an offer sheet to which he signs.  Then, the Cowboys and Texans reach a deal for compensation.  Instead of 2 first round picks (because that's not a mandate), the Texans will send Watson and any other details.  Maybe the Cowboys send Cooper.  Maybe they send picks.  It's whatever they choose.  Once the Cowboys tag Dak, Dak's options get reduced.  After what happened this season, do you think he takes the risk of playing on a franchise tag?  I don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, AxeElf said:

I understand that this is your opinion, but objectively, their career stats are pretty similar.

 

It's how the stats are made is what's important.  Dak has had a top 5 OLine every year.  He's had an elite RB every year.  He's had a top tier WR1 every year.  He's had a top 10 defense every year.  Watson's had an mid-tier OLine every year.  He's had Lamar Miller, Carlos Hyde, and David Johnson as his RB's.  He had D-Hop, so a push at WR as Dallas had more depth.  He's had a bottom third defense every year.

Watson has played 1 less season than Dak.  He's only 3k yards behind.  He's only 2 TD's behind.  With less talent to work with, still has a better completion %, TD%, y/a, and passer rating.  Simply, Dak needs help and Watson makes others better.  When you're paying someone $40M per year, you need someone who can compensate for holes on your team.  That's not Dak.

What I said in the other thread about not overpaying QB's.  Dak is the example of that.  If you pay Dak top tier QB money, you're doing it at the detriment of your team.  He's a solid QB that you can win with IF you build a great team around him.  BUT, if you overpay him, you won't be able to.  That's not the case with Watson.  You only need a good team around him.  The thing is, it's cheaper to have a good team than a great team.

To put the "great" and "good" into tangible focus.... let's say the league's cap is $1,000.  With Dak, you need a roster that costs $850 to win.  With Watson, you only need $700.  If you're paying both QB's $300, you see the problem that presents itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, but he'll still take a deal that he likes.  For example, the Cowboys tag Dak.  The Texans work out a deal with Dak that he likes and extend him an offer sheet to which he signs.  Then, the Cowboys and Texans reach a deal for compensation.  Instead of 2 first round picks (because that's not a mandate), the Texans will send Watson and any other details.  Maybe the Cowboys send Cooper.  Maybe they send picks.  It's whatever they choose.  Once the Cowboys tag Dak, Dak's options get reduced.  After what happened this season, do you think he takes the risk of playing on a franchise tag?  I don't.

Well that depends on the deal offered. What I've read he wants a 4 year deal while the cowboys wanted 5.  And there's no reason for him to settle for less than 90 million guaranteed in the first two years.  And then the compensation back to Dallas.  Maybe they find a trade partner but imo is gonna be tough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, kutulu said:

Well that depends on the deal offered. What I've read he wants a 4 year deal while the cowboys wanted 5.  And there's no reason for him to settle for less than 90 million guaranteed in the first two years.  And then the compensation back to Dallas.  Maybe they find a trade partner but imo is gonna be tough.

That's why I said that the Texans work out the deal, not the Cowboys.  If that doesn't happen, the Cowboys can still just make a trade for Watson and just let Dak walk.  The thing is, Watson isn't the only one out there.  Stafford is too.  Possibly Rodgers.  Along with the draft picks.  Dak may find that there aren't as many buyers as he/his agent think there are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jared Goff sounds like he's available, guys.  We can stop worrying about the other QBs.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

It's how the stats are made is what's important.  Dak has had a top 5 OLine every year.  He's had an elite RB every year.  He's had a top tier WR1 every year.  He's had a top 10 defense every year.  Watson's had an mid-tier OLine every year.  He's had Lamar Miller, Carlos Hyde, and David Johnson as his RB's.  He had D-Hop, so a push at WR as Dallas had more depth.  He's had a bottom third defense every year.

Watson has played 1 less season than Dak.  He's only 3k yards behind.  He's only 2 TD's behind.  With less talent to work with, still has a better completion %, TD%, y/a, and passer rating.  Simply, Dak needs help and Watson makes others better.  When you're paying someone $40M per year, you need someone who can compensate for holes on your team.  That's not Dak.

What I said in the other thread about not overpaying QB's.  Dak is the example of that.  If you pay Dak top tier QB money, you're doing it at the detriment of your team.  He's a solid QB that you can win with IF you build a great team around him.  BUT, if you overpay him, you won't be able to.  That's not the case with Watson.  You only need a good team around him.  The thing is, it's cheaper to have a good team than a great team.

To put the "great" and "good" into tangible focus.... let's say the league's cap is $1,000.  With Dak, you need a roster that costs $850 to win.  With Watson, you only need $700.  If you're paying both QB's $300, you see the problem that presents itself.

Where I say they're pretty similar, you still insist on splitting percentage points and saying one is "better" than the other.  Not sure of your point with the supporting cast; Miller, Hyde and Johnson are three of the better RBs the league has seen in the past decade, and I think most would see Hopkins and Fuller as at least equals to Cooper and Gallup (Lamb improves the corps immensely, but Dak only had 5 games with Lamb, so he's not a huge part of Dak's career stats).  Maybe a better O-line, but then Watson is a much better scrambler than Dak, so it's not as much of a handicap, either.

Bottom line is that the Cowboys would never, ever, in a billion years do a deal that sends Dak and/or Lamb for Watson, period--and the other bottom line is that you won't be convinced until the 2021 season sees Dak and Lamb lead the Cowboys to the NFC East title.

Toodles...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably mentioned upthread but Watson has a no trade clause so on top of everything else he's gotta want to go to whatever team is willing to trade for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the questionnaire Dak or Watson for 30 million a year, I'd probably go Watson, but I'm not as sure he's this all-world talent everyone keeps saying he is.

I mean they won 4 games this year with wins against jacksonville (x2), NE, and Detroit.  Shouldn't my all-world qb be able to will my team to wins over teams with actual talent once in awhile?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, nobody said:

If the questionnaire Dak or Watson for 30 million a year, I'd probably go Watson, but I'm not as sure he's this all-world talent everyone keeps saying he is.

I mean they won 4 games this year with wins against jacksonville (x2), NE, and Detroit.  Shouldn't my all-world qb be able to will my team to wins over teams with actual talent once in awhile?  

Not with one of the 5 worst defenses in the league.  Keep in mind, with no legit #1WR and no steady ground game, their offense was around league average.  With a league-average defense and either a legit #1 (doesn't have to be elite), OR a legit RB, that team wins 8 to 10 games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Where I say they're pretty similar, you still insist on splitting percentage points and saying one is "better" than the other.  Not sure of your point with the supporting cast; Miller, Hyde and Johnson are three of the better RBs the league has seen in the past decade, and I think most would see Hopkins and Fuller as at least equals to Cooper and Gallup (Lamb improves the corps immensely, but Dak only had 5 games with Lamb, so he's not a huge part of Dak's career stats).  Maybe a better O-line, but then Watson is a much better scrambler than Dak, so it's not as much of a handicap, either.

Bottom line is that the Cowboys would never, ever, in a billion years do a deal that sends Dak and/or Lamb for Watson, period--and the other bottom line is that you won't be convinced until the 2021 season sees Dak and Lamb lead the Cowboys to the NFC East title.

Toodles...

Like I said, you only care about the numbers generated and not HOW (which is more important), they are generated.  Prior to this year, with a middling RB corp and an average defense, Houston won 21 games in the prior 2 seasons.  In the last 2 seasons (not counting this one), Dak had a great WR corp, elite backfield, elite OLine, and a top 10 defense... and won only 18 games.  That's all you need to know.  With superior talent, Dak is a .500 QB.  With average talent, Watson is .656 QB.  'Nuf said.

Also, I said in my first post, which apparently want to ignore, I said they could include Lamb OR Cooper.  Lamb wasn't the only option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Panthers are going to get Watson. 

I think that’ll be a great fit.  

They have WRs and some dude named Mccaffery. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, weepaws said:

Panthers are going to get Watson. 

I think that’ll be a great fit.  

They have WRs and some dude named Mccaffery. 

Bridgewater's locked in for 2 more years.  The cap isn't that bad though if they work him into the trade.  It'll only cost them $10M.  If they release him, it'll be $20M.  I'm not sure how much of Watson's deal would count towards their cap.  Would Watson fit Matt Rhule's system?  If so, that's not bad.  Don't want him in the NFC South though, so he can stay away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Bridgewater's locked in for 2 more years.  The cap isn't that bad though if they work him into the trade.  It'll only cost them $10M.  If they release him, it'll be $20M.  I'm not sure how much of Watson's deal would count towards their cap.  Would Watson fit Matt Rhule's system?  If so, that's not bad.  Don't want him in the NFC South though, so he can stay away.

Lol I understand. 

But I think it could be a very good fit.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Like I said, you only care about the numbers generated and not HOW (which is more important), they are generated.  Prior to this year, with a middling RB corp and an average defense, Houston won 21 games in the prior 2 seasons.  In the last 2 seasons (not counting this one), Dak had a great WR corp, elite backfield, elite OLine, and a top 10 defense... and won only 18 games.  That's all you need to know.  With superior talent, Dak is a .500 QB.  With average talent, Watson is .656 QB.  'Nuf said.

Also, I said in my first post, which apparently want to ignore, I said they could include Lamb OR Cooper.  Lamb wasn't the only option.

I think I'll get the last word, though, just to counter the Volume of Nonsense effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/19/2021 at 8:14 AM, Kopy said:

Thanks for your thoughts. I do believe the Jets are very viable partner. With the cap going down 20 million. Houston will have limited trade partner's for cap room, and draft assets.

I also view Watson as an absolute top stud, franchise difference making QB. A guy like that, you go get'em.

We'll see what happens.

 

 

This is a fair point.   Teams who NEED to get under the cap will be unloading players and those teams with lots of cap space may be able to easily rebuild just by signing the castoffs (if they spend their money wisely)

while im the first to acknowledge the jets havnt spent free agent money wisely in the recent past, the opportunity is there for a smart GM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/27/2021 at 12:13 PM, JagFan said:

This year proved that Dak makes that offense go, not Fruit Loops.  No way Dallas makes that trade, nor should they.  I agree with weepaws here.

Dallas was 2-3 with Dak (only because Atlanta gift wrapped them one... should have been 1-4).  With Dalton who didn't have an offseason to get acclimated to offense, was 4-5.  If you call his first two weeks as a "preseason", Dalton was 4-3 when he got back from injury.  Still, a 4-5 record is a better winning percentage than 2-3.  Dallas won 6 games this year.  If Dak stays healthy all year, I'll give them 7 wins.  No, I'll give them 8.  Dallas with Dak making $5M in 2019, won 8 games.  Dallas with Dak making $30M, probably wins 8 games.  My question... Why pay him more money?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/30/2021 at 3:28 PM, Ray_T said:

This is a fair point.   Teams who NEED to get under the cap will be unloading players and those teams with lots of cap space may be able to easily rebuild just by signing the castoffs (if they spend their money wisely)

while im the first to acknowledge the jets havnt spent free agent money wisely in the recent past, the opportunity is there for a smart GM.

I'm going strictly off memory here... but it seems to me that whenever a team trades multiple premium picks for a player, it only works out for the team getting the picks unless the team getting the player is in "Win now" mode and is willing to accept the quick payoff and the expected quick drop off.  The Jets are not in a win-now mode.  They need to those picks to improve their team.  Trading away picks hurts your ability to accrue premium talent in the draft.  Getting an expensive player in return, hurts your ability to add free agents.  I honestly don't see how this deal helps the Jets.

The Jets have two 1st round picks this year with one being the #2 pick overall.  There could be a team (Atlanta, Philly, Detroit [now], & Denver), who's still picking in the top 10 that would love to have that pick and be willing to trade a lot of picks to get it.  Trade down and add talent to help the current team.  Give it the 2021 season.  If Darnold isn't "the guy", then you'll still have a high pick plus extra picks to get a guy in the draft.

A deal, for example could be one with Denver.  They could get picks 9 and 40 this year plus a first and 2nd next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would pay Dak more and keep the talent I have around him, then to pick up a Qb named Watson. Imo. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, weepaws said:

I would pay Dak more and keep the talent I have around him, then to pick up a Qb named Watson. Imo. 

Agree. Also use my picks that I'd still have because I didn't trade them away and go after Oline and secondary help.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Houston radio is reporting the asking price is four 1st round picks plus.  Its a radio rumor so take it for what its worth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a good way of doing it I guess.  Put it out there that teams can't come to the table looking to pay a lesser value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like Carr, I think he's solid.  He's a guy you can win with if you have enough around him.  The only team that I think would be in a situation to need a guy like Carr, at that price, is Indy.  After all, Carr is a 2-year rental unless he's given an extension.  Maybe New England?  Doesn't seem right.  Could be San Francisco too.  I hear they're really trying to move on from Garoppolo.  Maybe that's why they can get 2 firsts... if they take Garoppolo too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I like Carr, I think he's solid.  He's a guy you can win with if you have enough around him.

So you think Carr is a better QB than Dak--since you don't think Dak is a guy the Cowboys can win with?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

So you think Carr is a better QB than Dak--since you don't think Dak is a guy the Cowboys can win with?

Is reading hard for you?  I described Dak virtually the exact same way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, TBayXXXVII said:

Is reading hard for you?  I described Dak virtually the exact same way.

Huh.  I thought you just spent a couple of weeks going on about how if the Cowboys pay Dak $40M, it would be bad for them.

Musta been someone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×