UPDATE: Lions trade Matthew Stafford to Rams

[weepaws 2,452]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

They did, but with a third of the league bidding for his services, WHOEVER got him was going to HAVE to "give up too much"--that's just elementary supply and demand economics.

If he's the reason the Rams get to SuperBowl LVI (where they lose to the Chiefs, of course), it won't be too much.

And Detroit got the Legos they need to start building.  Great deal for them!

Think the lions won in this deal.  

Anything less then a making to the Super Bowl, would be a bad move, I don’t think the rams are good enough with Stafford to make it.  

If the Rams make it to the Super Bowl next season, I’ll apologize. 

But it’s not going to happen. 

Thanks 

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Stafford told the Lions he'd go for any trade except to New England.  That is so awesome.  F you Patricia you slob.  You're not welcome in the state of Michigan again.  

Stafford wanted to work with McVay and vice versa.  They had some sort of connection before too I've heard.  Detroit did Stafford right for giving everything he had.  Lion fans are grateful to Stafford and are rooting for him.

Goff is nothing special at all.  Stopgap.  Hopefully Detroit can get a stud QB of their own this or next year.  Just not Fields because he's got bust written all over him.

Everyone is happy in this trade.  The 1st rounders could be the key to Detroit finally putting together a solid team.  Quinn and Patricia set the team even farther back from the contenders but maybe the new regime can pull them out of the darkness in a few years.

[polecatt 399]

It will be interesting to see how this effects Stafford's fantasy value.

He's been one of the most reliable low end QB1s for a decade.

I have owned him more than any other QB on my dynasty teams by far. In fact, the season I did decide to ditch him, I ended up picking him back up later in the season and riding a late season hot streak to a championship win.

Now with a much better supporting cast than he's ever had and an offensive scheme that made Jared Goff a decent fantasy asset at times, I think Stafford has a real shot to be a top 5 fantasy QB. It will be fun to see where he goes.

[weepaws 2,452]

I would agree, Stafford has been a great late ff Qb to draft.  

I think he’ll continue to produce in ff, but talking about the Rams success, I’m not sold.  

I think like Goff, Stafford will be a Qb that’ll avg about 20 or so points per game in ff.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

Off the top of my head, I would expect that the top 5 QB's (in no particular order), are expected to be Mahomes, Allen, Wilson, Jackson, and Murray, next season.  I don't think Stafford or any other QB can make a transition to another team that would crack that top 5.  Without looking into anything, I'd think Stafford would be projected to be a top 8 QB with Rodgers and Brady being the other two in that mix.  Anyone else think of anyone who might challenge for one of those top 8 other than the ones I mentioned?

[jrokh 567]

2 hours ago, kilroy69 said:

sorry the lions owe goff 45 million but they would have owed stafford like 38 over the same 2 years. Plus they got 2 firsts and a 3rd.  For a stafford replacement. Look at the numbers. Goff gets a lot of but IS he a downgrade over stafford? They both have a 2 to 1 td to int ratio. Stafford has a bigger arm I would bet but AxeElf said The Lions made Stafford ten years younger and picked up two firsts and a third. That is raping LA. What happens if it turns out that Goff is not damaged goods. Tannahill was given away too in a salary dump. It took a change in sheme, coach and surrounding players for him to be anything more that clipboard jesus for the rest of his career. Stafford had 4k yards 26 tds and 10 ints this year. Goff had 3900 20 and 13. That is damn near the same player and add in 2 firsts and a 3rd that is a fleecing. 

No doubt good deal for the Lions. They probably need to bottom out anyway, and Goff should help in that regard. No way the Rams give up that much unless Detroit agrees to take on Goff's contract...

[kilroy69 993]

1 hour ago, jrokh said:

No doubt good deal for the Lions. They probably need to bottom out anyway, and Goff should help in that regard. No way the Rams give up that much unless Detroit agrees to take on Goff's contract...

The did take on his contract but only 2 years is guaranteed and for not much more than what stafford was owed.  He is going to be a really expensive bridge QB. But by year 3 with the draft picks we have he will be gone and the lions should be drafting our qb of the future.  I would trade their first round pick this year to a QB needy team for a first and 3rd in 2023.

What is comes down to is the rams think they got the most out of goff and can get more out of stafford. They are in win now mode and think that stafford fits the offense better than goff. But here is the thing. Without megatron stafford is average. Unless the rams have that guy stafford is an older goff. 

 

[jrokh 567]

4 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

The did take on his contract but only 2 years is guaranteed and for not much more than what stafford was owed.  He is going to be a really expensive bridge QB. But by year 3 with the draft picks we have he will be gone and the lions should be drafting our qb of the future.  I would trade their first round pick this year to a QB needy team for a first and 3rd in 2023

Not a bad idea. Not sure how the QB class will look for 2022 draft, but Lions are the likely favorite to be next year's Jacksonville...

[polecatt 399]

42 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Off the top of my head, I would expect that the top 5 QB's (in no particular order), are expected to be Mahomes, Allen, Wilson, Jackson, and Murray, next season.  I don't think Stafford or any other QB can make a transition to another team that would crack that top 5.  Without looking into anything, I'd think Stafford would be projected to be a top 8 QB with Rodgers and Brady being the other two in that mix.  Anyone else think of anyone who might challenge for one of those top 8 other than the ones I mentioned?

Dak, he was the top QB in my league when he was injured. Brady, even a guy like Baker could be up there. You never know how some of they younger QBs could take a big leap. Even a guy like Carson Wentz, could have a bounce back year. Justin Herbert. I would say about any of the top 15 or so QBs have a shot to be.

You know how it goes, somebody will get inured, somebody will have everyone around them get injured, someone will just have a down year, someone will have bad luck, someone will have coaching problems, etc. If you could write this stuff in stone, or come close to it even, we wouldn't be talking about it on here so much.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

13 minutes ago, polecatt said:

Dak, he was the top QB in my league when he was injured. Brady, even a guy like Baker could be up there. You never know how some of they younger QBs could take a big leap. Even a guy like Carson Wentz, could have a bounce back year. Justin Herbert. I would say about any of the top 15 or so QBs have a shot to be.

You know how it goes, somebody will get inured, somebody will have everyone around them get injured, someone will just have a down year, someone will have bad luck, someone will have coaching problems, etc. If you could write this stuff in stone, or come close to it even, we wouldn't be talking about it on here so much.

Definitely a good list of names.  All 4 of them could be in the top 8.  I guess this really cements the strategy of waiting on QB's (excepting 2 QB or Super flex leagues).

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

37 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

The did take on his contract but only 2 years is guaranteed and for not much more than what stafford was owed.  He is going to be a really expensive bridge QB. But by year 3 with the draft picks we have he will be gone and the lions should be drafting our qb of the future.  I would trade their first round pick this year to a QB needy team for a first and 3rd in 2023.

What is comes down to is the rams think they got the most out of goff and can get more out of stafford. They are in win now mode and think that stafford fits the offense better than goff. But here is the thing. Without megatron stafford is average. Unless the rams have that guy stafford is an older goff. 

 

I'm thinking that unless they tag Golladay, he's leaving.  He'll net them a 3rd round compensatory pick next year as well.

[weepaws 2,452]

M Ryan. He could be coached into the top 8.  

He’s going to be a  late Qb candidate for me to draft next season. 

And if Watson lands with the Panthers, he’ll be top 8. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

25 minutes ago, weepaws said:

M Ryan. He could be coached into the top 8.  

He’s going to be a  late Qb candidate for me to draft next season. 

And if Watson lands with the Panthers, he’ll be top 8. 

LOL, I can't believe I missed Watson.  Matt Ryan, meh.  I'd be shocked if he finished in the top 8.  I'd expect him to be in the 12-15 range.

[weepaws 2,452]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

LOL, I can't believe I missed Watson.  Matt Ryan, meh.  I'd be shocked if he finished in the top 8.  I'd expect him to be in the 12-15 range.

I know, that’s why Ryan is going to be a very good late ff draft pick. 

I think his new coach can help him out , has he did for Tannehill 

 

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'm thinking that unless they tag Golladay, he's leaving.  He'll net them a 3rd round compensatory pick next year as well.

Golladay stated he loved Campbell's weirdo press conference and sounds quite interested in staying now.

Almost the entire team hated Patricia.  He was a complete ahole.

[weepaws 2,452]

If Golladay stays with the Lions, I think it’s a good chance that Goff and Stafford per game avg would be very close to the same. 

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

43 minutes ago, weepaws said:

If Golladay stays with the Lions, I think it’s a good chance that Goff and Stafford per game avg would be very close to the same. 

The 2 may have similar stats but there's a reason why the Rams did this.  McVay isn't stupid.  Stafford is a leader, a clutch player, has a gun and isn't afraid to use it, and has a ton more heart.  Stafford will win them games that Goff wouldn't have.  Goff is soft and is fine with losing.  

As a Lions fan I really hope they draft a good replacement soon.  They'll never go anywhere with Goff

[weepaws 2,452]

I disagree that Goff is fine with losing. 

I do think over all talent, Stafford is better. 

Now the Rams will be better , they have the better def, and the Rams were better with Goff, then the Lions were with Stafford, and I do disagree that Goff is happy about losing, but I do think the Lions might be. 

And I do think Stafford is going to win games that Goff wouldn’t have, doesn’t mean Goff is happy is losing. 

But based on ff, I think they will be about the same or close to the same based on avg points per game, so I’ll wait for Goff , while I think Stafford will be drafted higher then usual. 

 

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

11 hours ago, Jarvis Basnight said:

Golladay stated he loved Campbell's weirdo press conference and sounds quite interested in staying now.

Almost the entire team hated Patricia.  He was a complete ahole.

Then Detroit be lucky if that's the case.  I'll be interested if Golladay re-signs before free agency opens or if he waits.  I have a feeling that he's going to find out that his value may not be as high as he thinks it is.  The guy gets hurt a lot.  I think any team bringing him on would have to assume that Golladay will average around 13 or 14 games per season.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

12 hours ago, weepaws said:

I disagree that Goff is fine with losing. 

I do think over all talent, Stafford is better. 

Now the Rams will be better , they have the better def, and the Rams were better with Goff, then the Lions were with Stafford, and I do disagree that Goff is happy about losing, but I do think the Lions might be. 

And I do think Stafford is going to win games that Goff wouldn’t have, doesn’t mean Goff is happy is losing. 

But based on ff, I think they will be about the same or close to the same based on avg points per game, so I’ll wait for Goff , while I think Stafford will be drafted higher then usual. 

 

 

I'm sure Goff wants to win but while Stafford came back into a game with a broken collar bone to throw a game winning TD, Goff has 3rd and 8 in the last minute of the half playing against Seattle in a huge divisional matchup this year.......and he chooses to slide after running 7 yards.  There is definitely a difference between the two quarterbacks.

I read a LA beat writer tweet that play was the straw that broke the camel's back

[Ray_T 587]

On 1/31/2021 at 12:42 PM, AxeElf said:

 

The Lions made Stafford ten years younger and picked up two firsts and a third in the metamorphosis.

Steal.

well, I think the upgrade from Goff to Stafford wasnt THAT much of an upgrade.  not 2 firsts and a third.   For that price I thought the rams might make that offer to Houston. 

That being said... its a good  deal for the Lions.  Goff is a decent enough piece to build around.  its possible we have not yet seen the best from him.

and the two firsts are nice.  If Detroit can hit on them, they'll be sitting pretty.

as mentioned earlier, Goff has  one year to prove he can cut it in Detroit.  if he cant, they  can exit his contract.

But Detroit actually has some nice pieces in that offense.   This year their main problem was  injuries.

with that many high draft picks in the pipeline, the Lions should  be able to fill the holes on their team  if they draft well.

 

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Carolina offered them the 8th overall pick and another later pick.  Detroit beat writer wishes they had taken that to get a much better chance for an elite player.

Lot of Lion fans are hoping detroit turns and tries to get more draft compensation for Goff.  There were teams asking the Rams if they were looking to trade him.  Lions are going to stink the next couple years, why not sign fitzmagic or tyrod taylor for cheap and get something for goff?

[t.j 35]

All I care about is how does this affect Cooper Kupp in dynasty!

Kupp seemed like a perfect fit with Goff at first, and had his best year in 2019 when the Rams OL was decent but no longer great, Gurley was hobbled, and Cooks was opening up the defense vertically. Notably Kupp was injured during both the 2018 and 2020 playoff runs, which I think hurt Goff's play in big games a lot, and hence Goff's reputation as well. (If the Lions give him a chance I think Goff will do well with Golladay/Jones/Hockenson/Swift, even though those receivers are a bit more vertically oriented than what he is used to working with.) With Kupp, Jefferson, and Woods all being very similar receivers, and Reynolds being a UFA, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Rams bring in more of a vertical threat to take advantage of Stafford's deep ball. Considering the Rams' dominance defensively, Akers' emerging as a star in the run game, and not Kupp not being a great fit for Stafford, I fear Kupp is going to be under-used in the near future. And if so, with his salary, I think we could see the Rams moving on from his contract before the 2023 season, maybe even before 2022.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

On 2/1/2021 at 11:47 AM, Jarvis Basnight said:

I'm sure Goff wants to win but while Stafford came back into a game with a broken collar bone to throw a game winning TD, Goff has 3rd and 8 in the last minute of the half playing against Seattle in a huge divisional matchup this year.......and he chooses to slide after running 7 yards.  There is definitely a difference between the two quarterbacks.

I read a LA beat writer tweet that play was the straw that broke the camel's back

Did he say he had thought he reached the yard to gain... or was he just being a vag?  I didn't watch the game or see the play, so I don't know.

[kilroy69 993]

14 hours ago, Jarvis Basnight said:

Carolina offered them the 8th overall pick and another later pick.  Detroit beat writer wishes they had taken that to get a much better chance for an elite player.

Lot of Lion fans are hoping detroit turns and tries to get more draft compensation for Goff.  There were teams asking the Rams if they were looking to trade him.  Lions are going to stink the next couple years, why not sign fitzmagic or tyrod taylor for cheap and get something for goff?

If you can get a number 2 and his contract moved you do it for sure. 45 million over 2 years is about mid range for what starting qbs are paid right now so you might wanna keep him. Goff and Stafford are not far away from being the same player at the same pay. I think the lions should trade their number one this year for a 1st and a 3rd in 2022 or 23 and flip goff for a 2nd if they can. If not ride him out and stack draft picks by tanking and selling off any player that has value. Total rebuild . 

[t.j 35]

48 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

If you can get a number 2 and his contract moved you do it for sure. 45 million over 2 years is about mid range for what starting qbs are paid right now so you might wanna keep him. Goff and Stafford are not far away from being the same player at the same pay. I think the lions should trade their number one this year for a 1st and a 3rd in 2022 or 23 and flip goff for a 2nd if they can. If not ride him out and stack draft picks by tanking and selling off any player that has value. Total rebuild . 

I agree that they should flip Goff if they can.

To the point of your first couple of sentences, yes Goff at his moderate starting QB salary gives them a few wins over a backup-level replacement this year and next. Is that the right thing for the team though? Considering the shape of Detroit's defense, it seems like their short-term upside in terms of wins is what the Raiders were this year, i.e. win 8 games with an above-average balanced offense, and end up with a mid-1st round pick. The 1st rounders they'll get from LA will likely be very low in the round, so if they want real draft capital they'd be better off downgrading further at QB and finishing in the bottom 10 of the league this year.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Did he say he had thought he reached the yard to gain... or was he just being a vag?  I didn't watch the game or see the play, so I don't know.

I watched the replay a few times.  Could he have not realized where he was when sliding?  Absolutely.  But isn't it his job to know where he is and what he needs?  You can see he goes down in anticipation of being hit.  

Everything I've read or watched has stated that McVay and the rams don't feel like they can win with Goff.  They felt that they had to make a move.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

16 minutes ago, Jarvis Basnight said:

I watched the replay a few times.  Could he have not realized where he was when sliding?  Absolutely.  But isn't it his job to know where he is and what he needs?  You can see he goes down in anticipation of being hit.  

Everything I've read or watched has stated that McVay and the rams don't feel like they can win with Goff.  They felt that they had to make a move.

Yeah, it's his job to know, but if he made a mistake... then I would only rag on him for making a bad mistake.  I'll take your word for it that he did it to avoid a hit, which then makes him defenseless.  I was never a very big fan of Goff's, so I don't have a hard time believing that at all.  McVay wasn't the one who drafted Goff, so I don't have a hard time believing that McVay doesn't like him either.  Seems like McVay should have had a bigger input on that extension.

[t.j 35]

46 minutes ago, Jarvis Basnight said:

Everything I've read or watched has stated that McVay and the rams don't feel like they can win with Goff.  They felt that they had to make a move.

I mean, that was pretty clear when they talked up Wolford as an option and then made the trade.

[weepaws 2,452]

On 2/1/2021 at 8:47 AM, Jarvis Basnight said:

I'm sure Goff wants to win but while Stafford came back into a game with a broken collar bone to throw a game winning TD, Goff has 3rd and 8 in the last minute of the half playing against Seattle in a huge divisional matchup this year.......and he chooses to slide after running 7 yards.  There is definitely a difference between the two quarterbacks.

I read a LA beat writer tweet that play was the straw that broke the camel's back

We all know how tough Stafford is, I agree, and I do think he’s someone who could be better than Goff. As for the slide, I don’t know the what happen nor the play, I think it became clear as the season went forward that Goff and his coach  didn’t mesh . But I still think the Lions received the better deal..  

I think Stafford is going to the team with the better def, I’m not sosure thy have the better players on offense if Golladay does indeed stay.  

So simply based on ff, I think they’ll end up avg about the same points per game , I’ll probably have a better shot for Goff, because I draft qbs very late, and wait for a good one to come around.  

Last season I drafted Goff , than picked up Herbert.  

Nice.  

Thanks. 

[t.j 35]

6 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I think Stafford is going to the team with the better def, I’m not sosure thy have the better players on offense if Golladay does indeed stay.  

I agree the Lions have the better offensive supporting cast. It's relatively close though. Whereas he's going from arguably the worst defense to the best defense.

7 minutes ago, weepaws said:

So simply based on ff, I think they’ll end up avg about the same points per game , I’ll probably have a better shot for Goff, because I draft qbs very late, and wait for a good one to come around. 

Yeah fantasy wise this trade is likely better for Goff than Stafford, assuming Goff has a clear hold on the Lions starting job come FF draft time.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, it's his job to know, but if he made a mistake... then I would only rag on him for making a bad mistake.  I'll take your word for it that he did it to avoid a hit, which then makes him defenseless.  I was never a very big fan of Goff's, so I don't have a hard time believing that at all.  McVay wasn't the one who drafted Goff, so I don't have a hard time believing that McVay doesn't like him either.  Seems like McVay should have had a bigger input on that extension.

He wasn't the guy who actually decided to draft Goff but Brad Holmes, Detroit's new GM, was director of college scouting for the rams at the time and pushed for Goff to be the pick.  Brad obviously still believes in Goff....... unless of course he decides to trade him away.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

4 minutes ago, t.j said:

I agree the Lions have the better offensive supporting cast. It's relatively close though. Whereas he's going from arguably the worst defense to the best defense.

Yeah fantasy wise this trade is likely better for Goff than Stafford, assuming Goff has a clear hold on the Lions starting job come FF draft time.

I want to wait and see with both the Rams and Lions. Both have good receivers...... Lions with possibly Golladay, Sanu, and Hockenson.  Rams with Woods, Kupp, Reynolds, and others.  But neither team really has a speedster who can take the top off the defense.  Both could use one

[AxeElf 787]

22 minutes ago, Jarvis Basnight said:

But neither team really has a speedster who can take the top off the defense.

Robert Woods was an All-American sprinter in high school.

He's also been the 9th-best PPR WR over the past 3 years, and his place among the top 10 in 2021 is virtually secured with the signing of Stafford.

[t.j 35]

Just now, AxeElf said:

Robert Woods was an All-American sprinter in high school.

That's high school. 4.5 guys are crazy fast compared to high school competition but they don't take the top off NFL defenses. Marvin Jones is probably the fastest of the Lions and Rams starting receivers, and he's still more than a tenth of a second slower than a Brandin Cooks.

Jones/Golladay being faster and more suited to running downfield routes the hashes Woods/Kupp/Jefferson, it seems the Rams receivers are better suited to Goff and the Lions receivers are better suited to Stafford. Based on the QBs, I could see LA making yet another splash move to bring in a big/fast #1 type WR for Stafford, reducing the roles of the WRs they already have, and Detroit opting more for a cheap limited-use speedster to be mostly a decoy. However cap-wise LA may have to settle for a decoy type as well.

[weepaws 2,452]

Another offense upside for Goff is the run game, I like Swift more than I like Akers.  

I think Goff could be going to a good spot for him.  

I think the lions had to move  on from Stafford , I like their return. 

I think Stafford should be a very exciting addition for the rams coach.  

But with Golladay, Hockensen, and M Jones and Swift , they could be a very productive offense with Goff, plus they’ll need to be , no def.  

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

32 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Another offense upside for Goff is the run game, I like Swift more than I like Akers.  

I think Goff could be going to a good spot for him.  

I think the lions had to one on from Stafford , I like their return. 

I think Stafford should be a very exciting addition for the rams coach.  

But with Golladay, Hockensen, and M Jones and Swift , they could be a very productive offense with Goff, plus they’ll need to be , no def.  

You like Swift more than Akers?  Akers was beginning to look like a star in the making when he began getting the bulk of the carries.  A workhorse but I could see them adding a 3rd RB.

Swift looks good too and I can see Goff dumping off to him plenty.

Marvin Jones has publicly stated he can't wait to get to FA.  Golladay has sounded like he's interested in coming back but Jones sounds like he wants out.  Can't blame him.  Ford family are born losers

[weepaws 2,452]

5 minutes ago, Jarvis Basnight said:

You like Swift more than Akers?  Akers was beginning to look like a star in the making when he began getting the bulk of the carries.  A workhorse but I could see them adding a 3rd RB.

Swift looks good too and I can see Goff dumping off to him plenty.

Marvin Jones has publicly stated he can't wait to get to FA.  Golladay has sounded like he's interested in coming back but Jones sounds like he wants out.  Can't blame him.  Ford family are born losers

I do like Swift more than I like Akers, as for M Jones, I think a this stage of his career it might be best for him to ride it out with the lions.  

I think the Lions will commit more to Swift than the rams to Akers.  

 

[t.j 35]

20 minutes ago, Jarvis Basnight said:

Marvin Jones has publicly stated he can't wait to get to FA.  Golladay has sounded like he's interested in coming back but Jones sounds like he wants out.  Can't blame him.  Ford family are born losers

I hadn't thought to look at Detroit's contracts, but you're right, he a UFA. I guess I knew that from a different discussion but forgot about it. Can't blame anyone that wants out of Detroit, I agree.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

2 hours ago, Jarvis Basnight said:

He wasn't the guy who actually decided to draft Goff but Brad Holmes, Detroit's new GM, was director of college scouting for the rams at the time and pushed for Goff to be the pick.  Brad obviously still believes in Goff....... unless of course he decides to trade him away.

Or, maybe he knows that Goff isn't the guy and saw an opportunity to get more from a trade as well as make sure they don't improve too quickly.