Poll: 72% of Americans support voter ID laws

[RLLD 3,455]

I think having an ID to vote should be mandatory, period.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,595]

Imagine accepting the ridiculous premise that you’re unable to get an id in 2021? Why do black people put up with this? 

[DonS 3,063]

What is the death toll when folks have to wait in line for a concert or the new iPhone?  If nobody gives them water then the bodies must start piling up like cord wood!! 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,595]

No one is allowed to get out of line to goto the bathroom either I assume? 

[Utilit99 4,099]

5 minutes ago, DonS said:

What is the death toll when folks have to wait in line for a concert or the new iPhone?  If nobody gives them water then the bodies must start piling up like cord wood!! 

I guess so. I never knew black folks needed water every 5 minutes and aren't capable of supplying their own. I'm guessing they never go camping. Ever. Or if they do they never survive it.

Wow, the things the libs are teaching me is very interesting. 

[RLLD 3,455]

36 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Imagine accepting the ridiculous premise that you’re unable to get an id in 2021? Why do black people put up with this? 

It's rather despicable for these racists to continue to portray african americans of being so unable......

[Hardcore troubadour 12,595]

19 minutes ago, RLLD said:

It's rather despicable for these racists to continue to portray african americans of being so unable......

You’re right, it’s obvious why liberals do it, but why do black people accept it? 

[TimmySmith 2,782]

19 minutes ago, RLLD said:

It's rather despicable for these racists to continue to portray african americans of being so unable......

Look at peenie.  Buying that Africans cannot tolerate the sun in November.     Defending libs accusations that blacks are too disconnected from reality to possess ID.   2 hate filled, racist ideas and she's right on board with them.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,595]

Just now, TimmySmith said:

Look at peenie.  Buying that Africans cannot tolerate the sun in November.     Defending libs accusations that blacks are too disconnected from reality to possess ID.   2 hate filled, racist ideas and she's right on board with them.  

She actually said you can’t get condoms in the hood. 

[peenie 1,690]

51 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

No one is allowed to get out of line to goto the bathroom either I assume? 

I assume you are not allowed in the building until it's your turn. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,595]

22 minutes ago, peenie said:

I assume you are not allowed in the building until it's your turn. 

Yeah ok. I waited over an hour this year. I went to the bathroom and got a drink at the water fountain. But that must have been the white water fountain.  

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

No one is allowed to get out of line to goto the bathroom either I assume? 

No. Because racists won't allow political campaigners to supply individual porta-potties to black people while they are standing in line.

[Cdub100 3,370]

6 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

It's much easier for people to simplify to a single incorrect issue that actually learn the facts though.  

Tell us the issue Mr. White Knight 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,498]

6 hours ago, peenie said:

I assume you are not allowed in the building until it's your turn. 

Seems racist.

[Utilit99 4,099]

8 hours ago, peenie said:

I assume you are not allowed in the building until it's your turn. 

Well, they do let white people use the bathrooms inside, not the black people. It's crazy isn't it? Same with water. It's only passed out to the white folks. Blacks are forbidden to even carry their own with them. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,595]

Peenie, the liberals, who Malcolm X warned black people about, are using your people once again. They know that black people have ID. You know black people have ID. You don’t know anyone without it. It’s about the illegals they are bringing in. They want them to be able to vote, and an ID would stop that. Liberals have been hiding behind black people for a long, long time to get what they want. This is another example. You’re being hoodwinked. Bamboozled. 

[dogcows 1,029]

22 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Wow, you are a hack.  The sad thing is I don’t think you realize it.  I would say you cherry picked things, but a lot of what you said aren’t in my link, so you are just making things up again.  Here, I’ll help you.  This is Myth 1 — they claim lots of good things, which do you disagree with?

Perhaps you dislike “codifies election drop boxes” which means “we aren’t going to just leave them unlocked and unguarded out on a street corner; you actually have to bring them somewhere with non-zero security.”  Putting a drop box inside of a polling place is “basically worthless now?”  Do you even read what you type?  You don’t think there should be some protection?  Oh that’s right, there is little evidence of fraud before 2020, and that extends to today, with the new unsecured drop boxes.  Never mind, you don’t get it.  I know I know, like in Spinal Tap, yours goes to 11.    

What is the point of the drop box if it’s inside the polling place and only open when the polling place is open? It’s no different than voting in person then. Then they also greatly decreased the number of drop boxes. In the 4 most populous counties combined, there were 94 drop boxes in 2020. In the next election, there will be a maximum of 23. I will quote the law instead of far-right talking points:

Quote

Page 47: A board of registrars or absentee ballot clerk may establish additional drop boxes … but may only establish additional drop boxes totaling the lesser of either one drop box for every 100,000 active registered voters in the county or the number of advance voting locations in the county. Any additional drop boxes shall be evenly geographically distributed by population in the county.

Drop boxes … shall be established at the office of the board of registrars or absentee ballot clerk or inside locations at which advance voting … is conducted in the applicable primary, election, or runoff and may be open during the hours of advance voting at that location. Such drop boxes shall be closed when advance voting is not being conducted at that location.

 

Just wondering: do you think the drop boxes were unlocked or something? Any reports of people breaking into them? I’ll wait. Banks have drop slots for money, and somehow they manage to prevent theft. Why couldn’t the polling place have something similar so people could drop their votes off during off hours? It’s a problem that’s already been solved elsewhere, but apparently Georgia’s legislature cannot figure it out… or maybe they are just trying to lower the number of Dem votes?

I agree with your post of “myth 1” that not everything in the law is bad, but there is plenty that is troublesome.

I will conclude by saying this law was a big mistake by the Georgia GOP. Voting was 99.99% secure, so many of the “election security” measures are unnecessary. When you pass a law to handle any problem, you run the risk of creating other problems with the new law. So if you pass a law to fix an imaginary problem, any negative side effect has no upside to go with it.
Plus, now they are dealing with a massive pushback from their political donors, and they are turning people off. It’s like the law was designed to make people as determined as possible to make sure they vote out the Republicans before they restrict voting even more. Epic fail.

[jerryskids 5,172]

23 minutes ago, dogcows said:

What is the point of the drop box if it’s inside the polling place and only open when the polling place is open? It’s no different than voting in person then. Then they also greatly decreased the number of drop boxes. In the 4 most populous counties combined, there were 94 drop boxes in 2020. In the next election, there will be a maximum of 23. I will quote the law instead of far-right talking points:

 

Just wondering: do you think the drop boxes were unlocked or something? Any reports of people breaking into them? I’ll wait. Banks have drop slots for money, and somehow they manage to prevent theft. Why couldn’t the polling place have something similar so people could drop their votes off during off hours? It’s a problem that’s already been solved elsewhere, but apparently Georgia’s legislature cannot figure it out… or maybe they are just trying to lower the number of Dem votes?

I agree with your post of “myth 1” that not everything in the law is bad, but there is plenty that is troublesome.

I will conclude by saying this law was a big mistake by the Georgia GOP. Voting was 99.99% secure, so many of the “election security” measures are unnecessary. When you pass a law to handle any problem, you run the risk of creating other problems with the new law. So if you pass a law to fix an imaginary problem, any negative side effect has no upside to go with it.
Plus, now they are dealing with a massive pushback from their political donors, and they are turning people off. It’s like the law was designed to make people as determined as possible to make sure they vote out the Republicans before they restrict voting even more. Epic fail.

Drop boxes have a lot of value in polling places; we use them all of the time.  We have gotten absentee ballots for years, and most of the time (if we are not traveling) we fill our ballots out close to Election Day, then on that day bypass the line and drop off our completed ballots.

You won’t have to wait long:  I don’t think the boxes are unlocked (I honestly don’t know but I presume they are locked); rather I think that the 2020 approach is ripe for ballot harvesting.  This is where you tell me that has never been a problem before, then I respond that we’ve never had wide open, unvetted ways to vote so your data is meaningless, and we get nowhere.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,595]

How does requiring an id make it more difficult to vote? 

[Utilit99 4,099]

4 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

How does requiring an id make it more difficult to vote? 

It hurts the democrats and keeps them from getting illegal votes in some or all areas of the country. They no likey that.

[Thornton Melon 542]

Thinking that requiring an ID to vote is "voter suppression" is the same as thinking a border wall is "anti-immigrant".

No surprise that it's generally the same type of people who believe both.

[Utilit99 4,099]

Just tell the liberal politicians that if they don't want voters to need IDs to vote, then people don't need IDs to get into the capitol building. aoc can go run and hide forever in her bathroom.

[Fireballer 2,369]

This is obviously one of those stupid gotcha street interviews, but I don't think it's far off.  Lib college kids are racist.

 

[RLLD 3,455]

People are being actively taught racist ideas, under the guise of "caring", which is focking sick

[Hardcore troubadour 12,595]

You know how you can be assured there was/ is fraud in elections? The democrats are against voter ID.  We all know there aren’t a significant amount of people who don’t have an ID or are incapable of getting one. It’s about the ability to do fraud, plain and simple. Has to be 

[Thornton Melon 542]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You know how you can be assured there was/ is fraud in elections? The democrats are against voter ID.  We all know there aren’t a significant amount of people who don’t have an ID or are incapable of getting one. It’s about the ability to do fraud, plain and simple. Has to be 

Same reason Democrats don't want increased border security. They want illegal immigrants.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,595]

6 minutes ago, Thornton Melon said:

Same reason Democrats don't want increased border security. They want illegal immigrants.

Yup. They don’t do a thing for them in their own country. They just pay off the corrupt leaders so the bodies keep coming. If they gave a Fock they would make sure the foreign aid we give these shitholes actually helped the poor people there. 

[JustinCharge 2,397]

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/reaganmccarthy/2021/04/06/ga-election-law-poll-n2587446

A new poll shows that, with regards SPECIFICALLY to the new Georgia voting law, 42% support and 36% oppose. 

 

[KSB2424 3,082]

[Herbivore 904]

57 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/reaganmccarthy/2021/04/06/ga-election-law-poll-n2587446

A new poll shows that, with regards SPECIFICALLY to the new Georgia voting law, 42% support and 36% oppose. 

 

have you looked at the numbers.  pretty right leaning slant to the respondents.  is that correct?

[dogcows 1,029]

On 4/5/2021 at 10:38 PM, jerryskids said:

Drop boxes have a lot of value in polling places; we use them all of the time.  We have gotten absentee ballots for years, and most of the time (if we are not traveling) we fill our ballots out close to Election Day, then on that day bypass the line and drop off our completed ballots.

You won’t have to wait long:  I don’t think the boxes are unlocked (I honestly don’t know but I presume they are locked); rather I think that the 2020 approach is ripe for ballot harvesting.  This is where you tell me that has never been a problem before, then I respond that we’ve never had wide open, unvetted ways to vote so your data is meaningless, and we get nowhere.

Please tell me what “wide open, unvetted ways to vote” you are talking about.

[jerryskids 5,172]

29 minutes ago, dogcows said:

Please tell me what “wide open, unvetted ways to vote” you are talking about.

Well, one possibility would be a bunch of states shotgun blasting ballots out to unvetted people using untested processes, combined with ballot harvesting.  Here are a few simple oopsie examples from a quick Google search

https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/western_colorado/voters-find-ballots-blowing-in-parking-lot-at-clerks-office/article_356e972c-b191-11ea-bde0-6be2673802d5.html

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/crime/nampa-police-department-report-rise-in-mail-thefts-residential/277-076da88e-4319-4b36-a056-7843e21c7e47

Of course Google, like you, tries to point the searcher to the logically fallacious argument that since there is little evidence of “widespread” (note that word is increasingly used) voter fraud prior to the cluster Fock which was the 2020 election process, that same conclusion ergo can be drawn for 2020.  Again, I realize that this logical fallacy is beyond some folks to comprehend.

[Voltaire 4,555]

On 4/4/2021 at 4:08 AM, IGotWorms said:

All in how you frame the question. If you asked whether they approve of voter suppression tactics (which is what this actually is), you’d hopefully get 80-90% saying no. Though not at the Geek Club

Which provisions of the law do you think are out of line?

edit: Nevermind, I see dogcows took that up.

[Voltaire 4,555]

On 4/5/2021 at 12:27 AM, dogcows said:

Wow, yes let’s all treat the talking points from a far-right propaganda organization as gospel. Again, when one starts with a faulty premise (the disproven claim that 2020 was a fraudulent election), it’s like a bad foundation. The whole house collapses the first time a strong wind kicks up. Notice the heritage piece assumes that lie is true as its starting point. Hence the house of cards. They also are calling things “myths” and then not even bothering to say they are untrue.

1. "We didn’t have drop boxes in 2016” which wasn’t the point. They took drop boxes away. Period. Whether they had them before 2020 is not the question. They are flat-out lying when they say drop boxes aren’t being taken away. They are cutting them by more than 2/3rds. That is literally taking them away. NOT a myth. They also are reducing the hours one can use a drop box, and putting them inside the polling place instead of outside. They are basically worthless now. It actually would have been more honest to ban them entirely.

2. Onerous ID requirements. Another cover-up and reframing, instead of telling the truth. Absentee voting didn’t ever need an ID in the past. But when absentee voting became popular with Dems instead of just military and older republicans, they need to add more ID requirements. People should be aware that there really is no need for further ID with absentee ballots. To get one, you already need to have registered to vote, which means you already showed ID in order to register, and they are mailing it to your address. This does literally nothing to prevent fraud, because if some mythical vote-stealing criminal is getting your mail, they can get your driver’s license number too by stealing the letters from the DMV. Just a totally unnecessary redundant exercise to make voting more of a pain.I bet this backfires on them though. In 2024, we probably won’t have another pandemic, so absentee voting patterns will return to normal, and this will more likely invalidate military and elderly votes… both of which tend to skew right.

3. Water in line: they don’t even bother to deny it but still call it a myth. The idea is that partisan people are trying to influence voters by giving them water? It was already illegal to campaign for a voter within range of the polling place, so if that was what the water-givers were actually doing, they could have prosecuted them under existing law. And then they pretend the law will shorten lines. It will not do so. It says it will investigate the lines after the next election and supposedly do something about it in subsequent elections. Meaning - nothing changes in the next election; the lines will still be long.

That whole poorly written piece is full of more deflections and spin too. The fact that they list these “‘myths” and then don’t disprove them, but instead make excuses for them or try to explain them away tells you all you need to know.

Here’s another more detailed evaluation of the 98-page law. Each write-up focuses on different aspects of the law. Since this is The NY Times, many people will think it’s inherently biased too (although please note the Heritage piece is explicitly biased and partisan). So look at this and if you think they’re both biased, maybe you can think that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Not everything in the law is bad, but there is bad stuff in it that makes it unnecessarily harder to vote. And the state-level interference in local election boards is draconian and dictatorial. So much for freedom.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html

Thank You for the reply, as I like to see exactly what it is in the talking points that gets people bent out of shape. The chain of custody over access to the ballots is important and you seem unaware of the vote harvesting that was conducted in 2020. I think that is what the Georgia legislature is trying to correct by moving the drop box sites indoors. In reducing the number of boxes, I think is a valid complaint that requires a further look.I vote absentee all the time nowadays. If I am in town, I pick up a ballot at the local government office, fill it out there, and give it back to the clerk who had given it to me 20 minutes earlier. Other times, most times, I need it mailed and I initiate those requests.  I'm not opposed to the idea of a drop box in principal if your local government office is far away and those locations are secure. I'd like to see what the reasoning is behind the 2/3 of drop box locations that were rejected and the extent of how such inconvenience impacts poorly served residents. Perhaps these locations were unsecure, it's what I presume, but I don't know.

I don't see how putting the dropoffs inside rather than outside polling places makes a lick of difference to you, let alone makes them worthless, or restricting the dropoff times to when people are actually in the buildings that can keep the boxes secure. Better ballot security = better overall trust in the process.

In Michigan, and CDub tells me this law has changed. Hallelujah! But through 2000, whenever I went to vote, I would pull out my wallet and show my ID and the nice lady, who doesn't know me, wouldn't even bother to look at it. I'd just tell her who I was and she'd check that i was on the list. I always found that unsettling. Damn focking straight that she should be checking these IDs. That absentee ballots should be requested and initiated by the voter, not mass mailed, and they should come with signature verification. All this seems very straight forward and non-controversial to me. Especially when you have the massive irregularities that happened last time. I know that you don't believe that is the case, you think I am delusional whereas I think you were deliberately kept uninformed of them, but half the country is aware of what I am, and I so think straightforward, non-controversial reforms are hugely important. That you see these as controversial is troublesome.

I use to pass out fliers outside polling places. Never beverages. I think passing out water may be a small scale bribe.... "here's something nice from the Stalin campaign, vote Joe." I dunno. Being nice could affect undecided voters to tilt your way, I think that's the point, but I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over it. If the Stalin campaign gave me water, I'd take it. I wouldn't affect me any. I'd read their fliers and that may move me. To compensate, they do task the election officials with making sure people in line get water.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,595]

Zuckerberg, the Facebook creep, paid for those drop boxes in 2020. Maybe that’s why they got rid of many of them.  If there are tons of them, it’s impossible to manage. But let’s go with white supremacy instead of logic. 

[dogcows 1,029]

21 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Well, one possibility would be a bunch of states shotgun blasting ballots out to unvetted people using untested processes, combined with ballot harvesting.  Here are a few simple oopsie examples from a quick Google search

https://www.gjsentinel.com/news/western_colorado/voters-find-ballots-blowing-in-parking-lot-at-clerks-office/article_356e972c-b191-11ea-bde0-6be2673802d5.html

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/crime/nampa-police-department-report-rise-in-mail-thefts-residential/277-076da88e-4319-4b36-a056-7843e21c7e47

Of course Google, like you, tries to point the searcher to the logically fallacious argument that since there is little evidence of “widespread” (note that word is increasingly used) voter fraud prior to the cluster Fock which was the 2020 election process, that same conclusion ergo can be drawn for 2020.  Again, I realize that this logical fallacy is beyond some folks to comprehend.

1. Report of people being too dumb to push their ballot all the way into the box. Colorado had boxes for years without problems.. not sure why people in that small town managed to screw it up this time as opposed to other years, where according to the article, they used the exact same dropbox. Colorado does it all by mail and drop box and has for years. So, calling that process “un-vetted” is false.

2. Some mail was stolen from a post office in bumf***, Idaho. The mail included some ballots, and all ballots were accounted for and returned. Millions of people vote by mail every year; it has never been a “problem” before. And it literally wasn’t a problem this time either.

Yes, whether voting fraud is “widespread” matters a lot. Many on the right are waiting for somebody to say “there was no fraud” so they can find that (literally) 1 in a million exception. There is no voter fraud problem because it is such an extremely rare occurrence, and the numbers didn’t go up in 2020 compared to 2016. So why weren’t all these laws needed after the 2016 election? This is just a case of butthurt reaction from the 2020 losers. The state that was reliably “red” and got taken to the cleaners by the Dems… for some reason feels NOW is the time they need to change laws to make it harder to vote.

Since voter fraud is about a 1-per-million occurrence, these laws aren’t needed. And because they add restrictions, they will lead to some people not being able to vote, and past history shows it will be more than 1-per-million who miss out. So you’ve taken away the vote from people for no good reason.

I certainly hope this law backfires when we return to typical voting-by-mail patterns. The elderly voters in Georgia who skew heavily Republican will comprise a majority of mail-in votes, and now instead of just signing their ballot, these elderly folks will have to find their driver’s license (assuming they still drive) and enter the number and/or attach a photocopy? What if they enter the driver ID incorrectly? The more complications you add, the more likely there will be problems. Wait until hundreds or thousands of ballots from Republicans get tossed because they copied the driver license number down and missed it by one number or they didn’t have access to a photocopier. It will be epic if they cost themselves an election that way.

[jerryskids 5,172]

12 minutes ago, dogcows said:

1. Report of people being too dumb to push their ballot all the way into the box. Colorado had boxes for years without problems.. not sure why people in that small town managed to screw it up this time as opposed to other years, where according to the article, they used the exact same dropbox. Colorado does it all by mail and drop box and has for years. So, calling that process “un-vetted” is false.

2. Some mail was stolen from a post office in bumf***, Idaho. The mail included some ballots, and all ballots were accounted for and returned. Millions of people vote by mail every year; it has never been a “problem” before. And it literally wasn’t a problem this time either.

Yes, whether voting fraud is “widespread” matters a lot. Many on the right are waiting for somebody to say “there was no fraud” so they can find that (literally) 1 in a million exception. There is no voter fraud problem because it is such an extremely rare occurrence, and the numbers didn’t go up in 2020 compared to 2016. So why weren’t all these laws needed after the 2016 election? This is just a case of butthurt reaction from the 2020 losers. The state that was reliably “red” and got taken to the cleaners by the Dems… for some reason feels NOW is the time they need to change laws to make it harder to vote.

Since voter fraud is about a 1-per-million occurrence, these laws aren’t needed. And because they add restrictions, they will lead to some people not being able to vote, and past history shows it will be more than 1-per-million who miss out. So you’ve taken away the vote from people for no good reason.

I certainly hope this law backfires when we return to typical voting-by-mail patterns. The elderly voters in Georgia who skew heavily Republican will comprise a majority of mail-in votes, and now instead of just signing their ballot, these elderly folks will have to find their driver’s license (assuming they still drive) and enter the number and/or attach a photocopy? What if they enter the driver ID incorrectly? The more complications you add, the more likely there will be problems. Wait until hundreds or thousands of ballots from Republicans get tossed because they copied the driver license number down and missed it by one number or they didn’t have access to a photocopier. It will be epic if they cost themselves an election that way.

We’ve been through this numerous times; you are either too obtuse of an MSM rube to see my point, or you just hope if you keep saying the same logical fallacies you hope I’ll believe you.  

I’ll leave with your assertion that NOW is the time to change laws.  One, if you don’t think more laws regarding voting changed more in 2020 than any other time besides when former slaves and women were allowed to vote, I don’t know what to tell you.  Two, the changes are not to “make it harder to vote.”  This is a typical liberal logical fallacy; you guys misuse the transitive property.  Example:  Poor people have worse health insurance.  Minorities tend to be poorer.  Therefore our health system is racist.  Example:  Conservatives oppose abortion.  Abortion affects a woman’s body.  Therefore conservatives want to control womens’ bodies. Correlation is not causation.  I doubt you’ll see my point, and I truly don’t say this to be offensive, but rather nothing in your response pattern indicates that you ever see my point.   

[Fireballer 2,369]

32 minutes ago, dogcows said:

 

Since voter fraud is about a 1-per-million occurrence,

So was Hillary and her crew way off based with their assertions of voter fraud well into 2017?

[dogcows 1,029]

39 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

We’ve been through this numerous times; you are either too obtuse of an MSM rube to see my point, or you just hope if you keep saying the same logical fallacies you hope I’ll believe you.  

I’ll leave with your assertion that NOW is the time to change laws.  One, if you don’t think more laws regarding voting changed more in 2020 than any other time besides when former slaves and women were allowed to vote, I don’t know what to tell you.  Two, the changes are not to “make it harder to vote.”  This is a typical liberal logical fallacy; you guys misuse the transitive property.  Example:  Poor people have worse health insurance.  Minorities tend to be poorer.  Therefore our health system is racist.  Example:  Conservatives oppose abortion.  Abortion affects a woman’s body.  Therefore conservatives want to control womens’ bodies. Correlation is not causation.  I doubt you’ll see my point, and I truly don’t say this to be offensive, but rather nothing in your response pattern indicates that you ever see my point.   

I see your point. I simply believe it to be based on a total fallacy.

The only reason that there is a “worry” about election security is because the Orange man was whining about it for months before the election. Mail-in voting was never a problem in the past… but since Trump was behind in the polls, and it seemed likely that in 2020, the mail-in voting pattern would flip from its usual GOP-majority to a Dem-majority, he sowed seeds of doubt. Every other year, when mail-in votes came from the military and the elderly, not a single soul in the GOP made even the slightest peep about such ballots being insecure. The evidence itself shows that among the very rare cases of voter fraud in the last 50 years. most are NOT from mail-in ballots.

When people trot out the argument that we need to “restore faith in the election system,” I just shake my head. The only reason people lost faith in it is NOT because of any errors in tabulation or stolen votes. It is because you had an entire political party stoking that doubt and fear, led by the White House.

If people want to believe “things changed so there MUST have been some kind of fraud” - despite a total lack of evidence (despite numerous investigations specifically trying to find such evidence), then hey - believe in whatever you want. It doesn’t make it true. If you want others to join in your belief, you could try presenting some evidence. Instead it’s just “since people mailed votes in record numbers, there MUST be a problem….” Sorry, voter fraud is a serious accusation, and you should try finding some evidence to back it up. Trump’s campaign spent millions trying to come up with anything and couldn’t. That’s because there’s nothing to find.

For the losers in 2020, it is not surprising that they say NOW is the time to change election laws.

[dogcows 1,029]

9 minutes ago, Fireballer said:

So was Hillary and her crew way off based with their assertions of voter fraud well into 2017?

I don’t recall her asserting voter fraud, but if she did then she was off base. I didn’t see any major difference in the way elections happened in 2016 vs 2020 other than the percentage of mail-in ballots being higher. I think that was understandable considering the pandemic.