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NBA ratings plummet

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9 hours ago, vuduchile said:

Be honest. You don’t buy it because you don’t want it to be true. 
 

Pop culture is no longer driven by  Happy Days and Seinfeld in prime time.  It’s all instagram sluts and mouthy, half-ass celebs tweeting and tik tok-ing 24/7 

Sports is experiencing something similar and much of that is driven by fantasy sports and sports gambling.   

If the massive and growing popularity of NFL Red Zone isn’t proof enough that people now consume sports by the clip or the highlight, then I don’t know what else to tell you.  
 

 

 

I am shocked at how bad the sports leagues have been at seeing the future of media.

It is ridiculous that none of the major leagues have some sort of real streaming deal or platform.

I get your point about YouTube and such... but YouTube money is never going to equal actual network money.

They need to make their own platforms, or cut deals with Amazon or Netflix or whoever. 

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49 minutes ago, Reality said:

Somebody swiping through their insta timeline, where they probably don't even watch the entire video clip, counts as a view. Comparing that to people watching an entire game is absurd.

15 million YouTube watch hours (+130%) isn’t achieved by scrolling through a timeline.  

But I’m not really trying to compare apples to apples here.  
 

That’s my whole point.   It’s not the same  

Fans don’t consume the content in the same way they used to   

 

 

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43 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

I am shocked at how bad the sports leagues have been at seeing the future of media.

It is ridiculous that none of the major leagues have some sort of real streaming deal or platform.

I get your point about YouTube and such... but YouTube money is never going to equal actual network money.

They need to make their own platforms, or cut deals with Amazon or Netflix or whoever. 

Agreed.  MLB has a decent mobile app. 

I assume the current TV deals are still lucrative enough to prevent them from going all out. 
 

Youtube TV does offer live sports, but they’re just streaming existing networks. 
 

 

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39 minutes ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

I am shocked at how bad the sports leagues have been at seeing the future of media.

You mean all these leagues run by 80 year old white billionaires are out of touch with the modern era?  

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Are NBA games still being played?

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1 minute ago, vuduchile said:

Youtube TV does offer live sports, but they’re just streaming existing networks.

It is becoming difficult to find what was once easy to find on the networks.  Then most people realize they have better things to do anyway.  I never regret missing anything on TV and I'll bet I am not alone.  :dunno: 

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1 minute ago, TimmySmith said:

You mean all these leagues run by 80 year old white billionaires are out of touch with the modern era?  

Those guys do have young business experts working for them...

I mean hell, it seems pretty obvious... right now you have three people making money from the broadcast... the sponsors, the network, and the league.

Cutting out the middle man seems like a no brainer.

Especially as they're always talking about trying to expand overseas... people overseas don't watch sh!t that's on at 3am. A streaming service would let them watch when they want, and also have sponsors and announcers tailored to each market. 

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1 minute ago, TimmySmith said:

It is becoming difficult to find what was once easy to find on the networks.  Then most people realize they have better things to do anyway.  I never regret missing anything on TV and I'll bet I am not alone.  :dunno: 

This is true. 

We used to watch a lot more TV than when we had cable vs Youtube TV   

But, there are 5 of us in this house and we flirt with the internet data limit every focking month.  These damned phones are always running.  

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11 hours ago, vuduchile said:


 

Pop culture is no longer driven by  Happy Days and Seinfeld in prime time.
 

 

 

I dunno about that.

The Pistons just won the #1overall pick and the local media seems obsessed with Richie's grandson.

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1 hour ago, RLLD said:

Are NBA games still being played?

No. That sport is long gone. There are some worktards dribbling a basketball posing as the NBA on TV. 

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3 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

I don't buy it because I heard so many variations on that theme to spin why we should still trust a product or service even though its in decline.  Anyone who has invested in the stock market can think of a lot of companies that do something like "well sales are down but we aren't measuring success by sales so its ok".  Next thing you now, they go out of business or get bought out. 

Hell, I would go into Fry's in 2020 and see half the shelves empty.  I would tell the workers, "Guess what, you are going out of business".  They would counter with "NO! We are just "restocking"".

Radio Shack 7 years ago defied calls that they were going out of business, claiming the way people consume Radio Shack is simply changing.  They said that future customers would devour their robotics, microcontrollers, and 3D printers instead of the old stuff they used to sell.  https://www.fastcompany.com/3010032/can-the-maker-movement-save-radioshack

That phrase "the way people consume our product changing" is damn death-knell.  Its up there with a sports owner giving his coach the dreaded vote of confidence.

You continue to ignore all actual numbers except for network ratings, and gloss over the reality of what's happening in sports viewership.

The NFL won't tell us exactly how many people tune in to commercial free Red Zone every week.  Why do you think that is?  

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2 hours ago, vuduchile said:

Agreed.  MLB has a decent mobile app. 

I assume the current TV deals are still lucrative enough to prevent them from going all out. 
 

Youtube TV does offer live sports, but they’re just streaming existing networks. 
 

 

Decent?  The MLB app is freaking awesome.  I can watch the local tv broadcast of every game (not televised on my local network).  I can get either feed... home or away.  I can even overlay the radio broadcast if I'd rather hear the radio personalities instead of the tv personalities.  If I couldn't watch, I could listen to the radio broadcast, either feed... home or away.  All for only $149.  I don't need a satellite dish (like DirectTV).  I don't need a $20/mo Amazon account.  If I wanted to, for just $19.95, I can get the radio broadcast only package... every game, local or not, all year.  To call that "decent" is a gross understatement.

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14 hours ago, vuduchile said:

More data regarding the shift in the way fans consume the NBA.  This applies to other sports as well. 
 

 

 

13 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

I don't buy the notion that "the way they consume it is shifting".  That doesn't pass the smell test.  If people are not consuming full games (regular and postseason) all the time, then the league is starting to become out-of-sight and out-of-mind.  There might be a surge of interest in buying jerseys or watching video clips, but without the foundation of people watching full games, it easy for the public's interest to totally drift away to something else.

 

Think of it like ESPN.  First, ESPN made it by delivering premium sports content on a level never seen. If you wanted sports, you HAD to have ESPN as part of your sports day.  But then the internet starting delivering better content.  Smartphones starting delivering faster updates.  So ESPN shifted into becoming sports gossip, then gossip in general with barely a link to sports, and then dipped its toes into politics.  People now consume ESPN differently.  But its lost its edge.  Its competing with all the other gossip media and all the other political media.  Its just a matter of time before it collapses. 

 

So people stop watching full games.  Now they watch clips on youtube or instagram.  Well now its competing with fun clips of cats and video games and a host of other stuff.  How long can that go on?  Probably not very.

I think @JustinCharge is right on this one.  People aren't watching games on tv.  That's a problem for the NBA.  They get most of their money from TV contracts because the networks can sell ratings to advertisers.  If the ratings aren't there, the revenue isn't there... which means, lower bids for broadcast rights.

It's also a sign that people who do have interest in the NBA aren't all that thrilled with their marketing campaign and are avoiding TV on purpose.

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1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Decent?  The MLB app is freaking awesome.  I can watch the local tv broadcast of every game (not televised on my local network).  I can get either feed... home or away.  I can even overlay the radio broadcast if I'd rather hear the radio personalities instead of the tv personalities.  If I couldn't watch, I could listen to the radio broadcast, either feed... home or away.  All for only $149.  I don't need a satellite dish (like DirectTV).  I don't need a $20/mo Amazon account.  If I wanted to, for just $19.95, I can get the radio broadcast only package... every game, local or not, all year.  To call that "decent" is a gross understatement.

It gets "decent" from me because I've still been blacked out of a couple of Cubs games.  Not sure what their deal is with Marquee or Fox, but I wanted to watch on my phone a couple times and couldn't.  Otherwise, I agree. 

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1 hour ago, vuduchile said:

It gets "decent" from me because I've still been blacked out of a couple of Cubs games.  Not sure what their deal is with Marquee or Fox, but I wanted to watch on my phone a couple times and couldn't.  Otherwise, I agree. 

Games in your local market are blacked out.  If you were in an area where the Cubs were on tv, then you can't watch it.  I actually ran into that when I was on vacation back in April.  I was with the gf visiting her family in Columbus, OH.  The Pirates started the season with 3 games vs the Cubs, then 3 vs the Reds, followed by 3 vs the Cubs again.  All 9 were blacked out on the app, for TV, but I could listen to the radio version.  Now, I still watched it though, but on local t.v..  That will happen regardless of any platform.  That happened with DirectTV and NFL games as well.

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2 hours ago, vuduchile said:

You continue to ignore all actual numbers except for network ratings, and gloss over the reality of what's happening in sports viewership.

The NFL won't tell us exactly how many people tune in to commercial free Red Zone every week.  Why do you think that is?  

Because I think the ratings are everything and don't buy the bullshiit about anything else.

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3 hours ago, vuduchile said:

You continue to ignore all actual numbers except for network ratings, and gloss over the reality of what's happening in sports viewership.

The NFL won't tell us exactly how many people tune in to commercial free Red Zone every week.  Why do you think that is?  

they are busy prepping for Civil War!!!

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15 minutes ago, JustinCharge said:

Because I think the ratings are everything and don't buy the bullshiit about anything else.

So you don't think 1-1.5 Million people tune into the NFL Redzone every Sunday?  

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24 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

So you don't think 1-1.5 Million people tune into the NFL Redzone every Sunday?  

I don't think that makes your point and disproves his.  I think at least that many are watching RedZone.  What that also means is that they're not watching network TV.  Network TV money is what makes money... not RedZone.  It only costs people $5 per month to get RedZone.  I and most people I know, cancel that in January.  I only pay $20 a year for RedZone.  So, if everyone does that and assume it's 5M and not 1.5M people, that's $100M per year.  Even if they pay all 12 months ($300M), that's still a heck of a lot less than Fox paying $2B.  Keep in mind, the reason they paid that, which is the same reason they removed Thursday night games from their bid, was because of the TV ratings.

Excerpt: "Fox has held onto its Sunday afternoon NFC package, signing off on a renewal that will see it pay the NFL some $2.025 billion per year, up 80% from its current $1.13 billion fee. The 2020 campaign marked the 12th consecutive year in which Fox’s “America’s Game of the Week” broadcast was the highest-rated program on TV; per Nielsen, the national Sunday afternoon window averaged north of 23 million viewers. When Fox’s regional coverage is tossed into the mix, the network’s overall NFL deliveries last season averaged out to 18.1 million viewers."

Notice how they glamorize the 80% number?  Well, that's not really impressive if you consider other products.  If you bought a Ford F-150 in 2010, the cheapest was just under $7k and the most expensive was just over $30k.  If you bought one today, a brand new Ford F-150 will cost you at least $29k and as much as $72k.  On the low ends, that's an increase of 320% and the expensive end, it's an increase of 140%.  This would indicate that the networks are seeing less of a revenue profit than years past.  If their revenue profit is down, it means their ratings aren't worth the same amount as it used to.

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2 hours ago, vuduchile said:

It gets "decent" from me because I've still been blacked out of a couple of Cubs games.  Not sure what their deal is with Marquee or Fox, but I wanted to watch on my phone a couple times and couldn't.  Otherwise, I agree. 

If you ever get blacked out from a game you should use this site, mlb66.ir

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16 hours ago, JustinCharge said:

Now the media is trying to construct a narrative that ratings dont matter.  But they most certainly do.

https://sports.yahoo.com/you-dont-really-have-to-care-about-nba-television-ratings-180944196.html

But I think the big killer is potentially China.  China might start throwing so much money at its own league that they siphon away all the NBA talent.  And there's nothing the NBA can do about it.

Rich Americans don't want to live in shìthole China.

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59 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I don't think that makes your point and disproves his.  I think at least that many are watching RedZone.  What that also means is that they're not watching network TV.  Network TV money is what makes money... not RedZone.  It only costs people $5 per month to get RedZone.  I and most people I know, cancel that in January.  I only pay $20 a year for RedZone.  So, if everyone does that and assume it's 5M and not 1.5M people, that's $100M per year.  Even if they pay all 12 months ($300M), that's still a heck of a lot less than Fox paying $2B.  Keep in mind, the reason they paid that, which is the same reason they removed Thursday night games from their bid, was because of the TV ratings.

Excerpt: "Fox has held onto its Sunday afternoon NFC package, signing off on a renewal that will see it pay the NFL some $2.025 billion per year, up 80% from its current $1.13 billion fee. The 2020 campaign marked the 12th consecutive year in which Fox’s “America’s Game of the Week” broadcast was the highest-rated program on TV; per Nielsen, the national Sunday afternoon window averaged north of 23 million viewers. When Fox’s regional coverage is tossed into the mix, the network’s overall NFL deliveries last season averaged out to 18.1 million viewers."

Notice how they glamorize the 80% number?  Well, that's not really impressive if you consider other products.  If you bought a Ford F-150 in 2010, the cheapest was just under $7k and the most expensive was just over $30k.  If you bought one today, a brand new Ford F-150 will cost you at least $29k and as much as $72k.  On the low ends, that's an increase of 320% and the expensive end, it's an increase of 140%.  This would indicate that the networks are seeing less of a revenue profit than years past.  If their revenue profit is down, it means their ratings aren't worth the same amount as it used to.

My point is that people don't watch full games as much as they used to.  Many people watch bits and pieces or highlights. 

They also play NBA, NFL and MLB video games, gamble, play fantasy sports, buy jerseys, t-shirts, trading cards, NFT's, water bottles, blankets, helmets, hats and other stuff.  This is how the content and products are consumed now.  

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21 minutes ago, vuduchile said:

My point is that people don't watch full games as much as they used to.  Many people watch bits and pieces or highlights. 

They also play NBA, NFL and MLB video games, buy jerseys, t-shirts, trading cards, NFT's, water bottles, blankets, helmets, hats and other stuff.  This is how the content and products are consumed now.  

That's fine, but that's not what drives revenue.  His point, I believe, is that the ratings drives revenue (which it does), and revenue drives the leagues (which it does).  So with all the outlets your talking about, that's just extras to top off the product.  Basically, that's whipped cream and a cherry.  But without the ice cream (ratings) and topping (tv contract), there's no whipped cream or cherry.

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1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

That's fine, but that's not what drives revenue.  TV networks drive revenue and revenue drives the leagues (all of them).  His point, I believe, is that the ratings drives revenue (which it does), and revenue drives the leagues (which it does).  So with all the outlets your talking about, that's just extras to top off product.  Basically, that's whipped cream and a cherry.  But without the ice cream (ratings) and topping (tv contract), there's no whipped cream or cherry.

No.  His point is that sports are dying and nobody cares about them anymore.  

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Just now, vuduchile said:

No.  His point is that sports are dying and nobody cares about them anymore.  

But I think he's using ratings to prove his point, no?

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1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

But I think he's using ratings to prove his point, no?

Yeah.  And I'm saying plenty of people still care, regardless of TV ratings.  

I've pointed out previously, NBA revenues had been climbing steadily before COVID derailed them.  He wants to give a song and dance about how the numbers are misleading.  But, they're not.  Any business entity on earth would be thrilled with that kind of growth, regardless of where it came from.  

He hates the NBA, MLB maybe the NFL and probably dogs, kids and old people.  He wants sports to fail so he seeks evidence to support his convictions.  That's his M.O.  Have you not ever read his posts on other subjects? 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193467/total-league-revenue-of-the-nba-since-2005/

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Just now, vuduchile said:

Yeah.  And I'm saying plenty of people still care, regardless of TV ratings.  

I've pointed out previously, NBA revenues had been climbing steadily before COVID derailed them.  He wants to give a song and dance about how the numbers are misleading.  But, they're not.  Any business entity on earth would be thrilled with that kind of growth, regardless of where it came from.  

He hates the NBA, MLB maybe the NFL and probably dogs, kids and old people.  He wants sports to fail so he seeks evidence to support his convictions.  That's his M.O.  Have you not ever read his posts on other subjects? 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/193467/total-league-revenue-of-the-nba-since-2005/

I've seen those numbers for the NBA, but go look at the China revenue stream over that period of time.  There's no doubt that China is a huge part of the NBA.  It's the reason why even though that coach for Houston (I think), got bashed by the liberals (LeBitch mostly), for calling out the Chinese government during those protests.  Seriously, no exaggeration, but China is the lifeblood of the NBA.  No China, no NBA (to the extent to which it's at).  It's why the WNBA never says anything about China either.  No NBA means no WNBA.

MLB is fine.  There's tons of money generated outside of the national tv money, so the ratings aren't all that important for baseball.  With all the minor league deals/revenue and the local tv markets (neither of which the NFL has), there's plenty of money coming in outside of the national tv money.  Plus, supply and demand.  There's no where near the supply for national tv games in MLB, so the networks pay through the nose for what they get.

The NFL will be fine because it's easy to gamble on.

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Speaking of NBA TV ratings and other important stuff: 

 

The viewership share for this year's playoffs — the percentage of people with TVs in use that are watching the NBA — is at its highest since the league first began logging that data during the 2002-03 season. The NBA also happens to feature the youngest audience across major sports, one advertisers covet. Even as ratings declined during the pandemic, the NBA secured business partnerships with at least nine major brands, including Hotels.com, CarMax, Clorox, Michelob Ultra, Oculus from Facebook and Microsoft.

"The NBA, as far as the demographics, that's where everything matters," said Lewis. "Phil Mickelson won the PGA Championship and comfortably beat Lakers-Suns Game 1 in total viewership, but guess what? That was only in 50+. That was Phil's demo. In every other demographic, including the ones advertisers care about most, [ages] 18-49 and 18-34, the NBA game won. The demographics are the story here. If demographics didn't matter, then Harry's Law would still be on with Kathy Bates. The fact is, people in advertising are looking for a specific demo, and the NBA does well in demos that advertisers care about.

https://sports.yahoo.com/you-dont-really-have-to-care-about-nba-television-ratings-180944196.html

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10 hours ago, vuduchile said:

the percentage of people with TVs in use that are watching the NBA

This wording doesn't make you look at this skeptically?

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30 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

Another great game last night.  Trae Young..wow!  

He's really playing lights out this post-season.

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1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

This wording doesn't make you look at this skeptically?

No

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As a Suns fan who hasn't had a playoff team in 10 years, I and this city are going bat crazy.  My kids bought tickets to the last game and got to see what is being called the "Valley oop", which will go down as one of the greatest plays not only in AZ lore but in all of sports.  I'm so happy for them that they got to be there live and experience it.  There is nothing like it. :) 

The reactions of Smith and Wilbon say it all.  Watch to the end to see different angles.

 

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There was a time when the UK was the leading producer of goods in the world.  Birmingham steel was top of the line.  The UK was a superpower.  Then production slowly moved to the US.  UK leadership defended it by saying "we are still a superpower.  We just do it differently now.  As a consumer economy".  And it worked.  For a little while.  Then they pretty much lost all power and influence to the US.

There was a time when the US was the leading producer of goods in the world.  Pittsburgh steel was top of the line.  Then production slowly moved to China.  US leadership defended it by saying "we are still a superpower.  We just do it differently now.  As a consumer economy".

Just more examples of not passing the smell test when people try to tell me something isn't in decline because the metrics changed.

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5 hours ago, jerryskids said:

As a Suns fan who hasn't had a playoff team in 10 years, I and this city are going bat crazy.  My kids bought tickets to the last game and got to see what is being called the "Valley oop", which will go down as one of the greatest plays not only in AZ lore but in all of sports.  I'm so happy for them that they got to be there live and experience it.  There is nothing like it. :) 

The reactions of Smith and Wilbon say it all.  Watch to the end to see different angles.

 

Valley oop..that's awesome

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So, the ratings are an absolute disaster for the NBA. They will try to sugar coat it by saying it's up over last year but, it's bad. 8 million people watched game 1 compared to 18 million just 4 years ago. 

The NBA has a massive viewership problem.

 

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20 minutes ago, Reality said:

So, the ratings are an absolute disaster for the NBA. They will try to sugar coat it by saying it's up over last year but, it's bad. 8 million people watched game 1 compared to 18 million just 4 years ago. 

The NBA has a massive viewership problem.

 

yup and I contend is utter bullshiit to claim "people are consuming it differently". 

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