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What do we think about his #'s this year? I'm hoping for a second year improvement. First post in 5+ years!

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You'd think he go up.  Improved O-line, gets the benefit of a training camp, knows the system.  Plus all of the good things from last year still apply... Defenses should be worried about Mahomes and not a lot of competition. 

Negatives are he didn't really look dynamic to me last year.  He had holes to run through and just didn't seem to make the most of them and he seems to get pulled at the goal line.

I'd be a buyer at his ADP in the 3rd round expecting him to get 250 touches this year at about 5 yards per touch and 7 TDs.

1250 all-purpose with 40 receptions and 7 TDs is what?  A bit over 200 points.  That puts him about RB10 maybe?

If I was drafting in the top 4, I'd go stud RB, receiver in the 2nd, and CEH in the 3rd.  

Dalvin or Alvin or Henry

AJ Brown or Michael Thomas or Justin Jefferson

with CEH.

 

 

  

 

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In ppr a bit over 200 points would place him right around 14th based on last seasons ppr rankings.  

He was 23rd in ppr in avg season. 

What bothers be is that they turn to D Willams last season inmthe post season and he also performed. 

Now D Williams isn’t taken CEH job but he’ll play more this regular season than last. 

Mmm I’m not sure he doesn’t just simply repeat closely to what he did last season. 

 

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If anyone can wrap up full time duties in KC, they're obviously a high RB1.

That doesn't seem to happen a whole lot though under Andy Reid.

He likes the smaller, speedy,, shifty RBs. He usually has two or three in the work.

CEH should be their top RB, and a flex play at worst, with solid RB2 upside.

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I guess nobody noticed Jerick McKinnon's arrival?  You know, the 7th-highest paid RB in the NFL as recently as 2019?  He's been hurt the last couple, but managed to dunk in 6 TDs and gain 572 yards from scrimmage on 114 touches last season with the 'Niners. He has the receiving skills to be factor in the Chiefs' offense, and, along with Williams and Thompson, will probably contribute to the disappointment of CEH owners again this season.

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1 hour ago, polecatt said:

If anyone can wrap up full time duties in KC, they're obviously a high RB1.

That doesn't seem to happen a whole lot though under Andy Reid.

He likes the smaller, speedy,, shifty RBs. He usually has two or three in the work.

CEH should be their top RB, and a flex play at worst, with solid RB2 upside.

About the same as last season. 

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3 hours ago, AxeElf said:

I guess nobody noticed Jerick McKinnon's arrival?  You know, the 7th-highest paid RB in the NFL as recently as 2019?  He's been hurt the last couple, but managed to dunk in 6 TDs and gain 572 yards from scrimmage on 114 touches last season with the 'Niners. He has the receiving skills to be factor in the Chiefs' offense, and, along with Williams and Thompson, will probably contribute to the disappointment of CEH owners again this season.

I didn't notice that actually.  I even looked at their depth chart ahead of time and somehow didn't notice it.  That's sub-optimal.  McKinnon seems like a quintessential Andy Reid type of back. 

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Hate to say it, but CEH is on my DND list. Too much of a risk and there are other surefire studs out there within the first 3 rounds at WR, TE, QB than to burn a pick that high on a guy who has so much competition for touches. 

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15 hours ago, weepaws said:

About the same as last season. 

Yeah, except I don't think he's gonna have the first couple of games getting all the touches.

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Yeah weeks 1-6 he avg 21 touches per game, weeks 7-15 he avg 12 and in the post season he avg 9. 

And if you look at his ff totals week 7 through the post season, he’s a low flex play at best.  

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On 6/2/2021 at 6:34 PM, AxeElf said:

I guess nobody noticed Jerick McKinnon's arrival?  You know, the 7th-highest paid RB in the NFL as recently as 2019?  He's been hurt the last couple, but managed to dunk in 6 TDs and gain 572 yards from scrimmage on 114 touches last season with the 'Niners. He has the receiving skills to be factor in the Chiefs' offense, and, along with Williams and Thompson, will probably contribute to the disappointment of CEH owners again this season.

Every team has backups, a 29 year old journeyman who missed 2 years due to injury is nothing to get too worked up about.

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2 hours ago, Donkey said:

Every team has backups, a 29 year old journeyman who missed 2 years due to injury is nothing to get too worked up about.

I wouldn’t draft McKinnon, but he is good in the passing game, and that make him a threat to the over all production from CEH , so if one owns CEH it should be a concern of his value.  

 

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6 hours ago, weepaws said:

I wouldn’t draft McKinnon, but he is good in the passing game, and that make him a threat to the over all production from CEH , so if one owns CEH it should be a concern of his value.  

 

I get that, just seems like every team is going to have depth guys, I don't see the impact being that meaningful but I guess we'll see.

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1 hour ago, Donkey said:

I get that, just seems like every team is going to have depth guys, I don't see the impact being that meaningful but I guess we'll see.

Look at it this way.  Le'Veon Bell didn't do much for the Chiefs last year either--353 total yards from scrimmage, 13 receptions and 2 TDs--but if CEH had those fantasy points added to his own, he would have been the #8 PPR RB last season.

Without those points, however, he finished as the #22 PPR RB, and McKinnon certainly has the possibility of eating even more of the receiving work than Bell did.

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2 hours ago, Donkey said:

I get that, just seems like every team is going to have depth guys, I don't see the impact being that meaningful but I guess we'll see.

If you own CEH it’s going to be an impact, any work that McKinnon and D Williams take from CEH is a meaningful impact on CEH ff production. 

McKinnon isn’t going to take away much in the run game , but he will in the passing game, now in the run game that’s going to be D Williams taking work from CEH.  It’s another messy rb situation for sure.  

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On 6/4/2021 at 8:16 AM, weepaws said:

I wouldn’t draft McKinnon, but he is good in the passing game, and that make him a threat to the over all production from CEH , so if one owns CEH it should be a concern of his value.  

 

same skill set.  CEH is a bit better and less injury prone (so far)

honestly McKinnon's best value is to the CEH owner as a cheap handcuff.

 

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3 hours ago, Ray_T said:

same skill set.  CEH is a bit better and less injury prone (so far)

honestly McKinnon's best value is to the CEH owner as a cheap handcuff.

 

Agreed. 

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Looks like on FFC is stock is rising , even in non ppr, he’s now a low third round pick. 

I think in non ppr that’s way to early.  

 

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Darrell Williams had 39 regular season carries last year. Sure, that's going to go up with Lev Bell gone but I think the positive of no longer sharing so much work with Bell will outweigh any negative impact of guys like Williams or McKinnon. 

I'd bet on CEH's talent, the offense around him and a full offseason under his belt. Definitely worth a 3rd round pick. 

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6 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

Darrell Williams had 39 regular season carries last year. Sure, that's going to go up with Lev Bell gone but I think the positive of no longer sharing so much work with Bell will outweigh any negative impact of guys like Williams or McKinnon.

So you think Williams + McKinnon will be significantly less detrimental to CEH than Williams + Bell was?

To each his own, but that seems entirely specious.

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11 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

So you think Williams + McKinnon will be significantly less detrimental to CEH than Williams + Bell was?

To each his own, but that seems entirely specious.

Bell was a high profile former stud who KC felt the need to give touches to the moment he arrived. I don’t blame them. They were trying to win a title and he was a proven commodity and they seemed to handle things in a way that wouldn’t hinder CEHs long term development. 
 

what is Darrel Williams? What is Jerrick McKinnon besides a guy with former annual hype that he will likely never live up to?

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12 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

What is Jerrick McKinnon besides a guy with former annual hype that he will likely never live up to?

 

On 6/2/2021 at 5:34 PM, AxeElf said:

You know, the 7th-highest paid RB in the NFL as recently as 2019?  He's been hurt the last couple, but managed to dunk in 6 TDs and gain 572 yards from scrimmage on 114 touches last season with the 'Niners.

Bell only had 466 and 2 with the Chiefs.

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1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

 

Bell only had 466 and 2 with the Chiefs.

And McKinnon doesn’t come close to deserving that pay. Injury related as it may be, he won’t be that player. He had one or two big plays last season. I think 70 and a TD on 3 carries one week. Look at his numbers toward the end of the year. Remember, San Fran was rotating backs like crazy out of necessity. They didn’t have significant draft capital in a rookie RB. 
 

maybe McKinnon rips off some big plays this season but we are talking about volume here and touches he might take away. You only mentioned the yardage and scores for Bell and McKinnon. What were their respective touches? 

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3 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

What were their respective touches? 

As I mentioned above, 114 for McKinnon.  Bell had 98.

McKinnon when healthy should be fresh-legged and a perfect fit for Reid's system.  Bell had given up years ago.

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Just now, AxeElf said:

As I mentioned above, 114 for McKinnon.  Bell had 98.

Okay I admit, I thought Bell had more but then again he arrived in week 6 or 7 right? 
 

to each his own but I don’t see the depth in KC as a major threat to a talented second year back. It’s just a different situation than when Bell signed. 

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3 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

to each his own but I don’t see the depth in KC as a major threat to a talented second year back.

Then we agree.  The depth isn't a major threat--CEH will always be the starter--but it's enough of a threat to keep CEH as a low-end RB2.

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4 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

Darrell Williams had 39 regular season carries last year. Sure, that's going to go up with Lev Bell gone but I think the positive of no longer sharing so much work with Bell will outweigh any negative impact of guys like Williams or McKinnon. 

I'd bet on CEH's talent, the offense around him and a full offseason under his belt. Definitely worth a 3rd round pick. 

I thought he showed limited talent last season, and tam brought in Bell to help out the running game and Bell was horrible. 

I think the offense around CEH also would carry over to both D Williams and maybe even more so to McKinnon, I think this system is a very fit for McKinnon. 

Would agree a full season is going to help him out.  

A round three pick in ppr makes him a rb1- rb2 , in non ppr a rb2 - rb1. 

I think that’s to high for CEH, I see more of a flex slot with him, D Williams and McKinnon I think will see a lot of playing time , and this situation could turn into a sold three way RBBC with CEH getting the starting nod.  

Even in your June mock CEH went in the 4th round , awfull pick in a non ppr with a late rb1 like M Davis still available  

 

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1 hour ago, weepaws said:

I thought he showed limited talent last season, and tam brought in Bell to help out the running game and Bell was horrible. 

I think the offense around CEH also would carry over to both D Williams and maybe even more so to McKinnon, I think this system is a very fit for McKinnon. 

Would agree a full season is going to help him out.  

A round three pick in ppr makes him a rb1- rb2 , in non ppr a rb2 - rb1. 

I think that’s to high for CEH, I see more of a flex slot with him, D Williams and McKinnon I think will see a lot of playing time , and this situation could turn into a sold three way RBBC with CEH getting the starting nod.  

Even in your June mock CEH went in the 4th round , awfull pick in a non ppr with a late rb1 like M Davis still available  

 

Oh please with that last comment. Mike Davis is JAG. I love him, he helped me a bunch last season but his luster wore off quickly. He’s completely uninspiring, 28? Years old and also is much more valuable in a PPR. He probably loses more value in a standard scoring format than CEH. No way in earth is he a 4th rounder or worth a pick before CEH in any format. Maybe he shocks me and I’ll be happy to be wrong, because I am interested in him as a 6th rounder maybe. 
 

CEH showed pretty much everything I wanted to see last year with the exception of a knack for the end zone. I don’t think Bell was signed because of a lack of belief in CEH as much as the fact he was still a rookie and the chiefs are a Super Bowl contender. They were likely banking in Bell having more in the tank than he ultimately did. Reid usually feeds one back when that guy establishes himself. Maybe he’s changed but I’m not predicting a committee that will drastically hurt CEH. Hell, I would make a case that Lat Murray is more a threat to Kamara especially with check down Drew gone. 

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I won the ship last year despite drafting him in the first round. He was firmly on my bench halfway through the year. There was a game where he got stuffed at the goal line 2-3 times in a row and that pretty much set the tone for what he did. I have a handful of people I would not draft again and he is one them. 

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CEH didn’t show everything that K C needed to see, they brought in Bell to help the run game, not because of a lack of belief in CEH, but more of an understanding of what CEH couldn’t do , he couldn’t get the job done in short yardage and goal line situations so they acquired a player that was uninterested in playing in the nfl , in which he showed when he sat out the season while still with the Steelers, and than sign even a better player this off season in McKinnon who wants to play the game. And that’s is what makes McKinnon a better player, he has the desire to play when Bell clearly didn’t , ol A Reid thought he could out smart everyone my bringing  Bell aboard, and it back fired. 

Flex play I wouldn’t take CEH until at the earliest  the fifth round non ppr.  

As for M Davis, you talked about touches earlier on this thread, he has no threat of losing any, M Davis should dominate the Falcons run game this season, plus he can catch. I see him out producing Gurley who did manage to score 9 rush tds on only 195 rush att last season on very questionable knees.  So get ready to be shocked.  

 

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2 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

Oh please with that last comment. Mike Davis is JAG. I love him, he helped me a bunch last season but his luster wore off quickly. He’s completely uninspiring, 28? Years old and also is much more valuable in a PPR. He probably loses more value in a standard scoring format than CEH. No way in earth is he a 4th rounder or worth a pick before CEH in any format. Maybe he shocks me and I’ll be happy to be wrong, because I am interested in him as a 6th rounder maybe. 
 

CEH showed pretty much everything I wanted to see last year with the exception of a knack for the end zone. I don’t think Bell was signed because of a lack of belief in CEH as much as the fact he was still a rookie and the chiefs are a Super Bowl contender. They were likely banking in Bell having more in the tank than he ultimately did. Reid usually feeds one back when that guy establishes himself. Maybe he’s changed but I’m not predicting a committee that will drastically hurt CEH. Hell, I would make a case that Lat Murray is more a threat to Kamara especially with check down Drew gone. 

well, on Mike Davis you may be right.  hes not amazing or electrifying in any way, but he catches the ball well, and he runs okay.

doesnt sound like a thrilling endorsement, but I also dont see anyone on the roster who will take a lot of touches away from him.

What he has is opportunity and he will get the touches you want.

You dont necessarily want him to be your #1 RB, but I suspect hed be a fine #2 and you can probably get him later than most #2 RB's.

I do agree with you on Andy Reid.  He tends to feed one RB a lot of carries once the starting role is established.  Hes not much of a committee guy unless hes forced into that situation (which I admit does happen sometimes)

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The thing with Davis is that he will simply benefit from a high-powered offense around him.  He won't BE the offense, but he'll be the guy that scores from inside the 5--like how tired ol' Michael Turner fell into the end zone 11 times in 2012 because of the players around him--and in a standard scoring league, that's going to make Davis a very solid RB2, and a decent one even in PPR.  His ADP is absurdly low.

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2 hours ago, WhiteWonder said:

Hell, I would make a case that Lat Murray is more a threat to Kamara especially with check down Drew gone. 

Well yeah, Murray is worth drafting on his own merits.  There's no one in the KC backfield worth rostering besides CEH, no one is arguing that there is.

The argument is that the credible depth will keep CEH in the RB20-25 range (he was RB22 last year in both PPR and standard scoring), rather than the RB15 or so that he's being drafted to be.

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I just read an article that peripherally mentioned that Greg Lewis, 8 years a WR in the NFL and the Chiefs' WR Coach since 2017, has been transitioned to be the Chiefs' RB Coach in 2021.  Is that a sign that the Chiefs want to get their RBs more involved in the passing game?  Maybe.  I'm just not sure if that's good for CEH or for McKinnon.

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CEH ranked 13th in targets at the rb slot last season, but out of 55 targets he had 36 rec.  

i think mr McKinnon was brought in to improve on those number, so I don’t think that’s good news for CEH owners.  

 

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