In a dynasty, what would you seek for QB Watson?

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

2 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

That guy won't let go of Fields. So that's off the table. Unless I send him "$100,000 dollars, a pound of blow, and three female Italian escorts" he said, but I'm keeping those.  

Now he's offering Daniel Jones and a first round pick next year for Watson.

This was a new league started last year. Had best regular season record of the 12 teams, then bombed in the playoffs.

So I made trades to prepare for reload after the whole Watson thing, which net me 2 more first round picks next year and Trey Lance.

Watson and Lance are my only QBs worth mentioning. 

RBs: Singletary, C. Akers, K. Hunt, Boston Scott, and some other dudes.

WR: K. Allen, D Parker, J. Brown, L Shenault, D. Duvernay, and some others

TE:  M. Andrews, Higbee and some others..

This is my secondary league as it's only a $50 a year deal. But I wanted to give dynasty a try and these are all some good guys that are in the league.

I'm not that high on Singletary personally, but I do like Akers and Hunt.  Scott is meh, but fine as a RB4.  WR's seem thin.  I'm not that high on Parker at all and not so much on Brown.  If I had him as my WR4, great.  As WR3.. .eh.  As WR2 (which I think he is on your roster... no.  TE's are fine.  Me, I'd look to trade guys like Singletary and Parker or Brown.  Then see where you land.  If you can get someone like Golladay for Singletary and Brown, I'd do that... then pull the trigger on Jones.  I think Jones will be a solid fantasy option.  I don't think he's going to be a great QB or anything, but I think he'll be a legitimate starting QB that can post good numbers.  That connection of Jones and Golladay, along with Allen, Akers, Hunt, and Andrews should be a quality starting lineup.

Otherwise, I'd just try to get a guy like Taylor Heinicke, Bridgewater, or Lock and see if someone wants to give up the farm for Allen at the end of the season.

[Utilit99 4,099]

20 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'm not that high on Singletary personally, but I do like Akers and Hunt.  Scott is meh, but fine as a RB4.  WR's seem thin.  I'm not that high on Parker at all and not so much on Brown.  If I had him as my WR4, great.  As WR3.. .eh.  As WR2 (which I think he is on your roster... no.  TE's are fine.  Me, I'd look to trade guys like Singletary and Parker or Brown.  Then see where you land.  If you can get someone like Golladay for Singletary and Brown, I'd do that... then pull the trigger on Jones.  I think Jones will be a solid fantasy option.  I don't think he's going to be a great QB or anything, but I think he'll be a legitimate starting QB that can post good numbers.  That connection of Jones and Golladay, along with Allen, Akers, Hunt, and Andrews should be a quality starting lineup.

Otherwise, I'd just try to get a guy like Taylor Heinicke, Bridgewater, or Lock and see if someone wants to give up the farm for Allen at the end of the season.

Yeah, but I traded away some to get Lance and two more first rounders next year. I went into semi sell mode.. Plus I really like Shenault. His outlook is good at WR or flex. 

Anyway, I figured I would try to overhaul my team and Watson, who knows. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

49 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Did you read that last line? 

Anyway this has been a fun topic thank you for starting this thread.  

 

Yeah for sure. Thanks for the input. 

[nobody 2,031]

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I don't know, I think I'd have rejected that offer as well.  I think there's a much higher chance that Watson is in the league than Rodgers in 2022.  We know the NFL doesn't penalize players that long for anything... especially the good ones.  He'll be back and he's only 26 years old.  Rodgers actually just may retire.  I think it's really 50/50 on whether he plays or not this year.  I'm like 75/25 Watson plays.  The league will suspend Watson, but my guess is that it'll only be 8 games.  Heck, he may not even get that suspension until next year.

He rejected it before all the retirement talk even started.

[The Football Guru 210]

18 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

I need draft picks and QBs. Superflex league. 

I was offered Mac Jones and Newton, or Taysom Hill and 2022 first round pick for Watson. 

What rookies or picks would you pay for Watson? Anything?

 

I know this isn't directly answering your question, but he was taken at the 7.05 in a $250 dynasty startup I'm in ... ahead of Russell Wilson and Ryan Tannehill among several others.

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

Just now, nobody said:

He rejected it before all the retirement talk even started.

Rodgers is 38... Watson is 26.  Rodgers just won the MVP and outscored Watson by only 12 fantasy points.  Rodgers essentially had his best season EVER... and again outscored Watson by 12 fantasy points.  The NFL isn't going to do anything permanent to Watson.  At most, he gets suspended for the 2021 season.  I'll be happy with Watson from 2022 to 2030, thanks.

[WhiteWonder 2,170]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

You only have Watson and Lance, and you didn't hit "ACCEPT" two seconds after being offered Daniel Jones (the highest-rated deep passer in the NFL) AND a first round pick?

Heck, Jones will probly be better than Watson even if Watson plays this year, with all the new and newly healthy weapons Jones now has at his disposal!

If you don't take that deal, I hope you come in last place every year from now on--you'll deserve it.

What DO they teach in these schools...?

Hilarious post. I love sarcasm. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

Just now, The Football Guru said:

I know this isn't directly answering your question, but he was taken at the 7.05 in a $250 dynasty startup I'm in ... ahead of Russell Wilson and Ryan Tannehill among several others.

I think it does, in a way.  It says that at least 1 person thinks Watson's long term value is high, regardless of the fact that he may not play much this season.  Pending on his roster, this could be a smart move.  Did he still end up getting a solid QB in rounds 9 or 10?

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

1 minute ago, WhiteWonder said:

Hilarious post. I love sarcasm. 

He wasn't being sarcastic.  He was being serious.  He LOVES Daniel Jones.

[nobody 2,031]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Rodgers is 38... Watson is 26.  Rodgers just won the MVP and outscored Watson by only 12 fantasy points.  Rodgers essentially had his best season EVER... and again outscored Watson by 12 fantasy points.  The NFL isn't going to do anything permanent to Watson.  At most, he gets suspended for the 2021 season.  I'll be happy with Watson from 2022 to 2030, thanks.

Preach.  That's why I offered the deal of course.

 

[TBayXXXVII 2,104]

8 minutes ago, nobody said:

Preach.  That's why I offered the deal of course.

 

Yeah, if I had Watson, I'd be in absolutely no hurry what-so-ever to trade him.

[Utilit99 4,099]

9 minutes ago, The Football Guru said:

I know this isn't directly answering your question, but he was taken at the 7.05 in a $250 dynasty startup I'm in ... ahead of Russell Wilson and Ryan Tannehill among several others.

Yeah, I was mostly trying to understand what people are thinking about Watson in a dynasty. 7.05  Interesting.

Only one person interested in Watson ( or don't want the headache) in my league on this one.

[nobody 2,031]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

That's another plus for Jones; he has a crummy oline, so when protection breaks down, he runs--so there are some bonus points there.

And he's never had this kind of talent around him--especially talent that suits his deep-ball strengths (they don't call him "Danny Dimes" for nothing).  This year he has Barkley back healthy to make teams respect the run (Barkley missed all but two games last season), Evan Engram, Kyle Rudolph and Kelvin Benjamin at TE, Kenny Golladay, Darius Slayton going into his third season, Sterling Shepard, John Ross, Dante Pettis, and they drafted Kadarius Toney in the 1st round.

And if you need to see it before you believe it, consider that over the last 8 weeks of 2019, Jones was the QB5 in fantasy--with a much less impressive arsenal of weapons around him.

Given his sitch this year, I expect him to be a top 5 QB again.

Why are you concentrating on the second half of 2019?  How do you explain 2020?

Even in 2019, his second half was bolstered by exactly 3 stellar games.  He's had 4 above average games in his entire career.  

[WhiteWonder 2,170]

Danny Dimes 

[AxeElf 787]

1 minute ago, nobody said:

Why are you concentrating on the second half of 2019?

Because that's when Daniel Jones was the 5th-best QB in fantasy.

1 minute ago, nobody said:

How do you explain 2020?

Barkley missed all but two games, so there was no credible running game to take pressure off the passing game.  His top 2 WRs missed 8 games between them.

So add Barkley, Rudolph, Golladay, Toney, Ross, Pettis and Benjamin to the arsenal SINCE 2020, and I think that helps to explain my enthusiasm.

[jrokh 567]

19 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Because that's when Daniel Jones was the 5th-best QB in fantasy.

Barkley missed all but two games, so there was no credible running game to take pressure off the passing game.  His top 2 WRs missed 8 games between them.

So add Barkley, Rudolph, Golladay, Toney, Ross, Pettis and Benjamin to the arsenal SINCE 2020, and I think that helps to explain my enthusiasm.

You are on to something there. the splits with Barkley and without are dramatically different at least for TD:INT ratio, which is all I looked up. His Total QBR actually went up from 55.7 to 61.5 from 2019 to2020, which is mostly irrelevant to fantasy, but does show he got better as an all-around QB. If the OL was even average I would think top 5 is possible, but until I actually saw average OL play from last years 31st ranked group (per PFF), I would bet against it.

[The Football Guru 210]

58 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I think it does, in a way.  It says that at least 1 person thinks Watson's long term value is high, regardless of the fact that he may not play much this season.  Pending on his roster, this could be a smart move.  Did he still end up getting a solid QB in rounds 9 or 10?

His only other QB at this point of the draft is Winston at 18.08, so I would say no. (We are midway through Round 20 of 22.)

[The Football Guru 210]

47 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Yeah, I was mostly trying to understand what people are thinking about Watson in a dynasty. 7.05  Interesting.

Only one person interested in Watson ( or don't want the headache) in my league on this one.

I have him in an experts' dynasty league and won't even consider trading him (b/c I know what the response would be, for one). My answer was to make a trade for Joe Burrow before the draft. I also got Trey Lance with the third of my three first-round rookie picks. Wentz is also on my bench.

[Donkey 34]

3 hours ago, AxeElf said:

This is the opinion of a Donkey on a message board.

The numbers show that Daniel Jones is the highest-rated deep passer in the NFL, and for the second half of his rookie season, he was the QB5 in fantasy.

Trust the numbers.

You go ahead and trust the numbers, I'll question numbers that don't make sense. Here's the article:

Next Gen Stats' top 10 deep passers of 2020: Aaron Rodgers lands at No. 4 (nfl.com)

This is based on a stat they use called completion percentage over expectation, that adjusts for separation.  By this measure David Carr is 2nd and Mahomes is not in the top 10. Also it is based on 39 deep passes from Jones.

Did you watch him play? I saw passes he attempted to Slayton that wouldn't have hit a barn.

Sure his rushing is going to help his fantasy stats, but it won't keep him as a starter in the league for long.

 

[AxeElf 787]

13 minutes ago, Donkey said:

Did you watch him play? I saw passes he attempted to Slayton that wouldn't have hit a barn.

I saw him become the QB5 in fantasy over the back half of his rookie season.

[Utilit99 4,099]

23 minutes ago, Donkey said:

You go ahead and trust the numbers, I'll question numbers that don't make sense. Here's the article:

Next Gen Stats' top 10 deep passers of 2020: Aaron Rodgers lands at No. 4 (nfl.com)

This is based on a stat they use called completion percentage over expectation, that adjusts for separation.  By this measure David Carr is 2nd and Mahomes is not in the top 10. Also it is based on 39 deep passes from Jones.

Did you watch him play? I saw passes he attempted to Slayton that wouldn't have hit a barn.

Sure his rushing is going to help his fantasy stats, but it won't keep him as a starter in the league for long.

 

And this is what the Giants will have for a trade up for a QB if they want/need one next year. If they even need to trade up. I'm not saying he will fail, but I think this will be his year to prove himself. 

If Jones fumbles 18 times again next season, won't be pretty to be him if they like a QB in the draft.

 

• Round 1
• Round 1 (via CHI)
• Round 2
• Round 3
• Round 3 (via MIA)
• Round 4
• Round 4 (via CHI)
• Round 5
• Round 6
• Round 7

[AxeElf 787]

1 minute ago, Utilit99 said:

If Jones fumbles 18 times again next season, won't be pretty to be him if they like a QB in the draft.

Daunte Culpepper went to the Pro Bowl with 16 fumbles in 2003.

[jrokh 567]

43 minutes ago, Donkey said:

Did you watch him play? I saw passes he attempted to Slayton that wouldn't have hit a barn.

Did you? I watched every single game he ever played in the NFL and even some at Duke. His accuracy is fine. Playing behind the worst Pass Blocking OL in the league with no Barkley, and limited weapons, sure he missed some throws while running for his life. Now Barkley is back and he has Kenny Golladay, not to mention Kyle Rudolph, John Ross and Kadarious Toney. He likely will never be a superstar, but the odds of being a long time starter in the league are promising. When Danny starts Dropping Dimes again this season, I look forward to revisiting your inaccurate comments in this thread... 

[LaChup 154]

2 to 5, with a chance of parole.

[weepaws 2,450]

OP after stepping out a getting some real work done I’ve processed this situation, I think I would take Jones and the first round pick for him. 

Hope you keep us posted on what move if any you decide to make.  

[polecatt 399]

It's very difficult to say what Watson's exact value is, because nobody knows.

One thing is sure though, it's taken a beating in recent weeks and it's probably not going to be as high as it once was ever again.

In superflex dynasty, I'm sure he can still get some offers. Dynasty trades can get creative and crazy this time of the off season.

No matter how bad the situation, if a top stud can potentially get on the field, he'll have value in dynasty. People were still trading Josh Gordon as recent as 2019 in one league.

There will be at least one owner, who is willing to sit him on the bench, and let him ride the pine for an entire season or even more if he thinks he can get him for a bargain now.

All that said, if I owned him, I would listen to offers and see how good they got. I would certainly trade him for a first round pick or any potential starter really.

[Utilit99 4,099]

10 hours ago, AxeElf said:

You only have Watson and Lance, and you didn't hit "ACCEPT" two seconds after being offered Daniel Jones (the highest-rated deep passer in the NFL) AND a first round pick?

Heck, Jones will probly be better than Watson even if Watson plays this year, with all the new and newly healthy weapons Jones now has at his disposal!

If you don't take that deal, I hope you come in last place every year from now on--you'll deserve it.

And don't tell me you seriously thought you could get the high first round pick stud rookie QB away from a fan of the team that drafted him--for a QB facing a possibly lengthy suspension--did you?

What DO they teach in these schools...?

 

I guess they taught me that Daniel Jones had 29 fumbles in his 27 NFL games and not the 9 you were taught.

 

9 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Where did you get that stat?  It's completely false, by the way.

Jones has 9 fumbles in his career, 6 as a rookie and 3 last year.  Getting the ball out of his hands and into the hands of his new and newly healthy weapons should help to drop that to 1 or 2 this season.

Seriously.  Take Jones and a 1st for Watson.  You need a QB who will play this year, and getting one of the top 5 AND a first round pick represents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

 

[Ray_T 587]

10 hours ago, weepaws said:

D Jones and a first round pick next season, take it , hurry. N

I also think this is a pretty good offer

 

10 hours ago, AxeElf said:

That's another plus for Jones; he has a crummy oline, so when protection breaks down, he runs--so there are some bonus points there.

And he's never had this kind of talent around him--especially talent that suits his deep-ball strengths (they don't call him "Danny Dimes" for nothing).  This year he has Barkley back healthy to make teams respect the run (Barkley missed all but two games last season), Evan Engram, Kyle Rudolph and Kelvin Benjamin at TE, Kenny Golladay, Darius Slayton going into his third season, Sterling Shepard, John Ross, Dante Pettis, and they drafted Kadarius Toney in the 1st round.

And if you need to see it before you believe it, consider that over the last 8 weeks of 2019, Jones was the QB5 in fantasy--with a much less impressive arsenal of weapons around him.

Given his sitch this year, I expect him to be a top 5 QB again.

I dont know about top 5, but I'll go on record as saying it is likely he could be a solid starter somewhere in a 12 team league.   I dont know that his ADP will be high, so you can likely grab him late in redraft leagues.  Perhaps even as a backup QB who has potential to start.  (low end starters are drafted late anyhow)

They have surrounded him with some talent and that should translate into a career best year for him.

He was missing some key players in the offense last year.  Sequon likely still has at least 3-6 months recovery time for his ACL(possibly 9 months depending on how quick he heals)

He will probably be well enough to play week 1.  That being said, I suspect he wont likely be at 100% until late this year or early next year. 

[AxeElf 787]

1 hour ago, Utilit99 said:

I guess they taught me that Daniel Jones had 29 fumbles in his 27 NFL games and not the 9 you were taught.

But did they teach you to differentiate the 9 fumbles Jones had while rushing from the 20 he had while passing?

[Utilit99 4,099]

12 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

But did they teach you to differentiate the 9 fumbles Jones had while rushing from the 20 he had while passing?

Simply fumbles. Like was mentioned in your replies.

"Jones has 9 fumbles in his career, 6 as a rookie and 3 last year."

[AxeElf 787]

1 minute ago, Utilit99 said:

Simply fumbles.

That's why the Elf Institute provides a broader base of education.

[Utilit99 4,099]

9 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

That's why the Elf Institute provides a broader base of education.

Yet you were off by 20 fumbles. 

Jones has 9 fumbles in his career, 6 as a rookie and 3 last year."

And that is a big deal with a bad oline. Do your homework.

[AxeElf 787]

2 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

Yet you were off by 20 fumbles.

Nonsense.  I nailed the number of fumbles Daniel Jones had on rushing plays perfectly.

I even broke them down by year.

[nobody 2,031]

We'll probably need to start a new thread on Daniel Jones' fumbles.  You guys are going to be doing this for awhile.

I don't know if anyone remembers torrid joe, but this reminds me of the great Kurt Warner fumble debate.  The more things change the more they stay the same I guess.

[Utilit99 4,099]

10 hours ago, AxeElf said:

Nonsense.  I nailed the number of fumbles Daniel Jones had on rushing plays perfectly.

I even broke them down by year.

Well, fumbles are fumbles. 29 total. Fine.

How many TDs did he throw for last year in 14 games?

[IGotWorms 3,297]

On 6/11/2021 at 8:09 AM, WhiteWonder said:

ignore all the answers saying to take anything you can get for him, a kleenex, etc... Ignore comparisons to Josh Gordon. Why we would compare Watson to Gordon and not Kareem Hunt / Tyreek Hill / Adrian Peterson etc is beyond me. A substance abuse issue is something that maybe you can't beat and will derail your career. What's going on with Watson falls more in the category of the other three I mentioned.

As a few others have mentioned, no one is going to offer you good value right now. So the answer is, you just hold him. He's going to play again. There are already rumors that these charges will go away / be settled. He probably ends up on the commissioners exempt list and probably gets a suspension but he's young and one of the most talented QB's in the game. You just have to wait it out.

Hunt/Hill/Peterson beat the sh1t out of women and kids.

Watson got a handy from some hookers.

Not even remotely related and he’ll be fine. Things are rocky right now for sure but I wouldn’t be totally shocked if he doesn’t miss a single game in the end.

[IGotWorms 3,297]

23 hours ago, weepaws said:

I think it’s your own personal pride that’s stopping you from making this great deal.  

You have issues with another poster who’s a big fan of the Gmen. 

D Jones plus a first round pick for Watson is a great offer. 

So stop being so ignorant and take it.  

Do you hate Utilt or something? The guy’s a total ahole so I don’t blame you if you do. That said you’ve given some of the worst advice I’ve ever seen in this thread

[weepaws 2,450]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

Do you hate Utilt or something? The guy’s a total ahole so I don’t blame you if you do. That said you’ve given some of the worst advice I’ve ever seen in this thread

I’m sorry you feel that way about seafoam.  I don’t hate anyone. 

What advise have I given that’s been so bad? 

I think he should trade Watson and take of the two offers that he’s been offered? 

I think the D Jones and a first round pick for Watson is a really good move imo.  

So what been bothering you? 

Update question, Have you ever received Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? 

[WhiteWonder 2,170]

1 hour ago, IGotWorms said:

Hunt/Hill/Peterson beat the sh1t out of women and kids.

Watson got a handy from some hookers.

Not even remotely related and he’ll be fine. Things are rocky right now for sure but I wouldn’t be totally shocked if he doesn’t miss a single game in the end.

I wasn’t meaning Watsons situation was exactly the same. I meant more that they all fall under the category of some for of domestic or abuse issue. In this case sexual abuse. 
 

where as weepaws? Was comparing his situation to Josh Gordon. A drug addict. Complete apples and oranges. 

[weepaws 2,450]

7 minutes ago, WhiteWonder said:

I wasn’t meaning Watsons situation was exactly the same. I meant more that they all fall under the category of some for of domestic or abuse issue. In this case sexual abuse. 
 

where as weepaws? Was comparing his situation to Josh Gordon. A drug addict. Complete apples and oranges. 

No that’s not true, I was comparing that I think this will be a continuing issue for Watson imo as was a drug addiction was and as been for J Gordon.