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IGotWorms

Delta variant more transmissible than chickenpox?

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7 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

Good strategy.

Both caught covid but one vaccinated.

For one Mississippi couple who caught Covid-19, their outcomes provide a growing contrast. The wife, who is vaccinated, recovered after 10 days. But her unvaccinated husband has been in the hospital for 22 days and counting.

Natural selection. :dunno:

 

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3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Still not data.  Conclusions in graph form.

469 cases of COVID-19 associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, were identified among Massachusetts residents; vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%.

Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons (those who had completed a 2-dose course of mRNA vaccine [Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna] or had received a single dose of Janssen [Johnson & Johnson] vaccine ≥14 days before exposure).

Genomic sequencing of specimens from 133 patients identified the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in 119 (89%) and the Delta AY.3 sublineage in one (1%).

Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic.

Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated; no deaths were reported.

Real-time reverse transcription–polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) cycle threshold (Ct) values in specimens from 127 vaccinated persons with breakthrough cases were similar to those from 84 persons who were unvaccinated, not fully vaccinated, or whose vaccination status was unknown (median = 22.77 and 21.54, respectively). 

Most cases occurred in males (85%); median age was 40 years (range = <1–76 years). Nearly one half (199; 42%) reported residence in the town in Barnstable County.†† 

Among fully vaccinated symptomatic persons, the median interval from completion of ≥14 days after the final vaccine dose to symptom onset was 86 days (range = 6–178 days). 

 

 

don't see any conclusions in these sentences.  that's data

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As far as the claim that Delta is more serious, these are the references from the slides from the WaPo (page 18):

 

Delta variant may cause more severe disease than Alpha or ancestral strains:

Published evidence ▪

Canada: Higher odds of hospitalization [aOR 2.20 (CI 1.93-2.53)], ICU admission [aOR 3.87 (CI 2.98-4.99)], and death [aOR 2.37 (CI 1.50-3.30)]1 ▪

Singapore: Higher odds of oxygen requirement, ICU admission, or death [aOR 4.90 (CI 1.43-30.78)] and pneumonia [aOR 1.88 (CI 0.95-3.76)]2 ▪

Scotland: Higher odds of hospitalization [HR 1.85 (CI 1.39-2.47)]3

1. Fisman and Tuite, doi:10.1101/2021.07.05.21260050; 2. Ong et al. doi:10.2139/ssrn.3861566; 3. Sheikh et al. doi:10.1016/S0140-
6736(21)01358-1

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From the slides re: Delta being more transmissable:

Delta variant vaccine breakthrough cases may be as
transmissible as unvaccinated cases
▪ Breakthrough cases reported to national passive surveillance have lower Ct
values by 3 cycles (~10-fold increase in viral load) for Delta (Ct=18, n=19)
compared with Alpha (Ct=21, n=207) and other lineages (Ct=21, n=251)


▪ Barnstable County, MA, outbreak: No difference in mean Ct values in
vaccinated and unvaccinated cases [median among vaccinated (n=80): 21.9;
unvaccinated (n=65): 21.5]

 

So yes, it does seem like the Provincetown case was a major factor in their updated guidance

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1 hour ago, OldMaid said:

Since you asked a question that gave me pause… I went off on a google search to see how they detect the delta variant and more info. I’m going to post a link from the American Lung Association (which hopefully you don’t consider a "liberal rag" for your purview:

https://www.lung.org/blog/covid-19-delta-variant

 

But by all means, feel free to follow someone on Twitter that "knows better" if that helps you sleep at night.

While trying to be snarky, you proved my point.  From your webpage, the "Delta variant" is confirmed through genomic sequencing.  Is this widely available and in use on the general public?  I think not.  Back to the sex dungeon drawing board for you.

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15 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

469 cases of COVID-19 associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, were identified among Massachusetts residents; vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%.

Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons (those who had completed a 2-dose course of mRNA vaccine [Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna] or had received a single dose of Janssen [Johnson & Johnson] vaccine ≥14 days before exposure).

Genomic sequencing of specimens from 133 patients identified the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in 119 (89%) and the Delta AY.3 sublineage in one (1%).

Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic.

Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated; no deaths were reported.

Real-time reverse transcription–polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) cycle threshold (Ct) values in specimens from 127 vaccinated persons with breakthrough cases were similar to those from 84 persons who were unvaccinated, not fully vaccinated, or whose vaccination status was unknown (median = 22.77 and 21.54, respectively). 

Most cases occurred in males (85%); median age was 40 years (range = <1–76 years). Nearly one half (199; 42%) reported residence in the town in Barnstable County.†† 

Among fully vaccinated symptomatic persons, the median interval from completion of ≥14 days after the final vaccine dose to symptom onset was 86 days (range = 6–178 days). 

 

 

don't see any conclusions in these sentences.  that's data

The two bolded paragraphs are drawing me to some kind of conclusion.  

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16 hours ago, MTSkiBum said:

Covid is going to be endemic at this point, we will all get it multiple times in our lives. Get a vaccine( or not if you do not understand probabilities) and then live your life. No masks, no restrictions, no shutdowns, stop with that crap. Any decision made with the coronavirus needs to account for the fact that it will be around us forever.

 

This is the only response to all this.  Covid isn't going anywhere so we need to learn to live normally with it.  Shutdowns are just not feasible long term.

If you *want* to wear a mask indoors then do it

If you *want* to get the latest and greatest vaccine, then do it.

The healthcare industry should be trying their damnedest to go after the best vaccines AND therapeutics.  The government should help fund that research (NIH / CDC) as well as look into the genesis of this pandemic (see China).

However nothing should be mandated.  Schools and business open.  

 

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34 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Please explain.  The reported (and likely inflated) "vaccine death rate" is far lower than the death rate from the virus.    One could argue "well it's not guaranteed you'll get the virus" but you're throwing that out the window with this claim.   And don't give me the "don't know the long-term effects" excuse, you don't know the long-term effects of covid either.

From what I've heard breakthrough cases are more prevalent than nonvaccinated reinfection cases and more people have died from breakthrough cases than have nonvaxed reinfected people. 

Either way, the common thread between everybody who has been infected more than once is comorbidities. They've all had other health factors that contributed to their being reinfected whether they were vaxed or not. So for most healthy people under 65 or so, you're better off letting your immune system do what it is designed to do. Your immune system will be more robust for having done so.

Are there outliers? Sure. Should we be basing nationwide recommendations/mandates on outliers? Absolutely not. Especially since we know that the vaccine doesn't prevent you from being reinfected or spreading it to others. 

So let those who choose to get vaxed, do so and let those who choose to let their immune system fight it, do so. Stop with masks and shutdowns and all the other unnecessary buIIshit. It's pointless.

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5 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

The two bolded paragraphs are drawing me to some kind of conclusion.  

Even saying "469 cases of COVID-19" is a conclusion.  There is no data that can be independently verified from that sentence.  It requires me to trust the source (CDC?) that those 469 cases weren't motorcycle crashes.

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10 minutes ago, Strike said:

Even saying "469 cases of COVID-19" is a conclusion.  There is no data that can be independently verified from that sentence.  It requires me to trust the source (CDC?) that those 469 cases weren't motorcycle crashes.

Lol wut

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19 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

The two bolded paragraphs are drawing me to some kind of conclusion.  

That it’s probably not a good idea to go to an orgy in the middle of a pandemic?

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You know, I read peoples opinions on here, I listen to people in real life.  

It amazes me how polarizing this Covid stuff has gotten. Common sense is dead.

You have the crazy vaccinated, mask wearing while they drive by themselves and want to shut down the world and force needle stick nazi's.  Then you have the anti-vaxx, the gov't is putting tracking devices in you crowd.  JFC.

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34 minutes ago, Casual Observer said:

While trying to be snarky, you proved my point.  From your webpage, the "Delta variant" is confirmed through genomic sequencing.  Is this widely available and in use on the general public?  I think not.  Back to the sex dungeon drawing board for you.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/pandemic-data-initiative/news/demystifying-the-delta-variant-with-data

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1 hour ago, titans&bucs&bearsohmy! said:

Om is a lady. He got meat curtain slapped. 

Cl1t slapped?

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1 hour ago, Strike said:

I don't care.  I keep asking for data and you idiots keep posting links to stories about analysis/conclusions. 

This guy wants the raw data for his own perusing. Like he’s gonna outlearn the experts or something!! 🤣

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19 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

From what I've heard breakthrough cases are more prevalent than nonvaccinated reinfection cases and more people have died from breakthrough cases than have nonvaxed reinfected people. 

Either way, the common thread between everybody who has been infected more than once is comorbidities. They've all had other health factors that contributed to their being reinfected whether they were vaxed or not. So for most healthy people under 65 or so, you're better off letting your immune system do what it is designed to do. Your immune system will be more robust for having done so.

Are there outliers? Sure. Should we be basing nationwide recommendations/mandates on outliers? Absolutely not. Especially since we know that the vaccine doesn't prevent you from being reinfected or spreading it to others. 

So let those who choose to get vaxed, do so and let those who choose to let their immune system fight it, do so. Stop with masks and shutdowns and all the other unnecessary buIIshit. It's pointless.

All true, but you’re not making a fair comparison.

I agree, if you’ve already had covid and recovered, most signs are pointing to that providing better immunity against FUTURE infection than the vaccine and I’ve said repeatedly that proof of prior infection should be just as good as proof of vaccine if it’s ever needed.

But if you have not yet had covid, if you are over 30 especially, getting the vaccine puts you at a far lower risk of a serious outcome if you get covid later.

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37 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

This is the only response to all this.  Covid isn't going anywhere so we need to learn to live normally with it.  Shutdowns are just not feasible long term.

If you *want* to wear a mask indoors then do it

If you *want* to get the latest and greatest vaccine, then do it.

The healthcare industry should be trying their damnedest to go after the best vaccines AND therapeutics.  The government should help fund that research (NIH / CDC) as well as look into the genesis of this pandemic (see China).

However nothing should be mandated.  Schools and business open.  

 

Look, I don’t want new mask mandates either. But the above is bullsh1t. It can’t be just if you personally feel like it. Because IT DOESN’T REALLY PROTECT YOU FOR WEARING IT. Get that through your thick focking skull already. It’s been a focking year and a half on this so quit with that garbage. What it does is protect OTHERS from getting it FROM YOU, so your personal g0ddamm feelings about wanting to wear a mask are stupid and irrelevant.

 

HTH!

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1 hour ago, Strike said:

Still not data.  Conclusions in graph form.

 

57 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

469 cases of COVID-19 associated with multiple summer events and large public gatherings in a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, were identified among Massachusetts residents; vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%.

Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons (those who had completed a 2-dose course of mRNA vaccine [Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna] or had received a single dose of Janssen [Johnson & Johnson] vaccine ≥14 days before exposure).

Genomic sequencing of specimens from 133 patients identified the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in 119 (89%) and the Delta AY.3 sublineage in one (1%).

Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic.

Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated; no deaths were reported.

Real-time reverse transcription–polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) cycle threshold (Ct) values in specimens from 127 vaccinated persons with breakthrough cases were similar to those from 84 persons who were unvaccinated, not fully vaccinated, or whose vaccination status was unknown (median = 22.77 and 21.54, respectively). 

Most cases occurred in males (85%); median age was 40 years (range = <1–76 years). Nearly one half (199; 42%) reported residence in the town in Barnstable County.†† 

Among fully vaccinated symptomatic persons, the median interval from completion of ≥14 days after the final vaccine dose to symptom onset was 86 days (range = 6–178 days). 

 

 

don't see any conclusions in these sentences.  that's data

Hey Strike if you put ice in a towel and hold it to your face, the impression of where Tim's Smacked you will fade in a few days.  HTH

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20 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Lol wut

Dude is the dumbest most belligerent dipsh1t to ever grace this a here bored 

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7 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Look, I don’t want new mask mandates either. But the above is bullsh1t. It can’t be just if you personally feel like it. Because IT DOESN’T REALLY PROTECT YOU FOR WEARING IT. Get that through your thick skull already. It protects OTHERS from getting it FROM YOU, so your personal g0ddamm feelings about wanting to wear a mask are stupid and irrelevant.

 

HTH!

I wore a mask when indoors in public.  I have been vaccinated with the Pfizer mRNA double shot.

However what are you exactly endorsing in your above post?  Government forced vaccinations?  Schools should be shut down again?  I'm not following.

What I'm advocating for is to treat it like we used to do the normal flu.  Strongly encourage vaccinations, strongly encourage staying at home if you are sick, getting the proper and correct information to the public.  However we cannot go back to shutdowns and stuff....we just cannot.  

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13 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

All true, but you’re not making a fair comparison.

I agree, if you’ve already had covid and recovered, most signs are pointing to that providing better immunity against FUTURE infection than the vaccine and I’ve said repeatedly that proof of prior infection should be just as good as proof of vaccine if it’s ever needed.

But if you have not yet had covid, if you are over 30 especially, getting the vaccine puts you at a far lower risk of a serious outcome if you get covid later.

How does one provide proof of previous infection? There are antibody tests but they aren't cheap and usually only conducted at the request of a Dr. 

 

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10 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Dude is the dumbest most belligerent dipsh1t to ever grace this a here bored 

So I’m off the hook? 

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4 minutes ago, 5-Points said:

How does one provide proof of previous infection? There are antibody tests but they aren't cheap and usually only conducted at the request of a Dr. 

 

That is one complaint during the pandemic that I’ve agreed with - we haven’t done a very good job in estimating who’s already been infected.

But I also think proof of a positive covid test from like more than a month ago or so should suffice in addition to antibody tests.

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Y'all may have talked about this before but something about this Covid thing has bugged me this whole time.  I could not get the vaccine at my main doctor / general practitioner when I had my yearly physical earlier this year.   However I could go to Target and get it.

That never set well with me, I have always talked about my health decisions...vaccines...medications with my doctor.  

Am I the only person who finds that weird?

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13 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Dude is the dumbest most belligerent dipsh1t to ever grace this a here bored 

He’s generally not dumb even though he hates me for some reason, but that one was pretty bad.  Not sure what he’s looking for, the Excel spreadsheet that the people putting the report together used?  But even then “you have to trust the CDC.”  Maybe names and phone numbers of the 469 people?

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3 minutes ago, KSB2424 said:

Y'all may have talked about this before but something about this Covid thing has bugged me this whole time.  I could not get the vaccine at my main doctor / general practitioner when I had my yearly physical earlier this year.   However I could go to Target and get it.

That never set well with me, I have always talked about my health decisions...vaccines...medications with my doctor.  

Am I the only person who finds that weird?

I thought most doctors offices do have it now.  When was your appointment though?  If it was prior to like May 1st or so they weren’t widely available in some places.

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12 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

So I’m off the hook? 

🤣 You’re still #1 in my book. 😍

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Also, while Strike has his moments, he’s not that bad. We definitely have/had worse. If you’re not a douche to him-he won’t be a douche to you.

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It is funny though, in my every day life.. Nobody gives a shlt about any of this. We've moved on. The people I know are healthy and take care of themselves. We are happy in our suburban bubble..

I only get reminded of this being a thing when I visit this site. 

The benefits to living in the middle of the country. You don't give a fock about us and I can guaran damn tee you we don't give a flying fock about you..

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31 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

This guy wants the raw data for his own perusing. Like he’s gonna outlearn the experts or something!! 🤣

Wow... How dare he not trust "the experts". Blasphemy! 

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Hopefully President Sleepy Joe will institute a countrywide lockdown and pay every individual $1,000 a week to stay home. I’m feeling a little burnt out on work. 

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3 minutes ago, Cdub100 said:

Wow... How dare he not trust "the experts". Blasphemy! 

Do you think the CDC would share raw data that doesn’t show the same #’s as what they’re stating in the release?  You still have to “trust” the raw data.  Although they did also include references to the raw data for the Massachusetts.

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13 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

That is one complaint during the pandemic that I’ve agreed with - we haven’t done a very good job in estimating who’s already been infected.

But I also think proof of a positive covid test from like more than a month ago or so should suffice in addition to antibody tests.

I've never been tested but I'm sure I've had it. There's no way I could not have. 

What doesn't make sense to me, and it seems like the "guidance" might be changing, is why don't vaxed people have to wear masks but unvaxed people do? 

We know for certain that both vaxed and unvaxed people can get it and spread it. So why do vaxed spreaders (potentially) get a pass on the mask? 

The inconsistencies and outright flip-flops in guidance from Faucci and others leads me to believe that either they don't know wtf they're doing or what they're doing is not in the best interest of the public. Either way I'm disinclined to lend any weight to the opinions of the so called "experts" and rely even more on my own immune system to defeat this and any other Covid virus that comes down the pike. 

My T cells and Memory B cells > vaccine antibodies. 

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Just now, TimHauck said:

Do you think the CDC would share raw data that doesn’t show the same #’s as what they’re stating in the release?  You still have to “trust” the raw data.  Although they did also include references to the raw data for the Massachusetts.

I don't know, but I find it very troubling a person would be mocked for wanting to see the raw data. To read and understand what the science is saying.

Some people don't want to be told what to think. Unlike worms some would rather come to their own conclusions.

Trust is at an all time low and "the experts" are doing so hot these days.

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9 minutes ago, MDC said:

Hopefully President Sleepy Joe will institute a countrywide lockdown and pay every individual $1,000 a week to stay home. I’m feeling a little burnt out on work. 

:lol:

MDC is growing on me.  

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1 hour ago, Strike said:

Even saying "469 cases of COVID-19" is a conclusion.  There is no data that can be independently verified from that sentence.  It requires me to trust the source (CDC?) that those 469 cases weren't motorcycle crashes.

Well, that is true.

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55 minutes ago, OldMaid said:

What does saying, the Delta variant accounted for x cases sequenced tell me and you?  Did you not have data from Mass posted by Tim telling you how many cases were actually sequenced, how many of those were the Delta variant, how many went to the hospital and of those how many were vaccinated and unvaccinated?  What does that tell you?

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