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snatchit

I am starting to think, drafting Melvin Gordon in the late 7th round.. might be a good pick

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He is my # 4 RB ... might make a flex start. He wasnt bad last year. I will take the 1st half of the season for production, if that is all I get

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I think he’s a very good rb4. With rb2 potential. 

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feels like an RB3 rather   than RB4.  Last I looked he was  still the starter.

not catching passes like he did from Rivers.... but then again not many QBs check down to the RB's like he did. 

the rookie will dip into his touches a bit, but I feel it will take at least a few games before we really notice it.

As I have Sequon on one of my teams, I plan to grab this guy late.  he should give a couple spot starts early before the rookie comes around and digs into his touches too much.  this should cover me if Sequon doesnt play week 1 and/or week 2.   and.... the price is right.

 

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1 hour ago, Ray_T said:

As I have Sequon on one of my teams, I plan to grab this guy late.  he should give a couple spot starts early before the rookie comes around and digs into his touches too much.  this should cover me if Sequon doesnt play week 1 and/or week 2.   and.... the price is right.

But are you seriously going to start Gordon over Barkley, assuming Barkley plays, Week 1?

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It certainly could be a great pick.

He's the starting RB on a run heavy team. Those are very hard to come by in the 7th round.

If he stays healthy, and the rookie struggles to get up to NFL game speed, then over 1000 yards and 8 TDs or so, with enough receiving points to make a difference, is a real possibility.

If that happens, he's a steal.

If not, and he's trapped in a RBBC, then no big deal, he's decent depth.

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6 hours ago, AxeElf said:

But are you seriously going to start Gordon over Barkley, assuming Barkley plays, Week 1?

no he starts  if Barkley sits.   if he plays but coach says limited use, I'll have a  decision to make.

but if Barkley  is full go, Barkley plays

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He’s a solid RB2 and all the Javonte talk is just fluff right now. He was going round 9 not long ago and  It’s criminal he’s going even rnd 7, grand larceny.

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J Williams will be the Broncos rb1 before long, stealing if you get him in the 7th. 

Hes a stud and I think he’ll be even better then Harris. 

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On 8/29/2021 at 4:08 AM, AxeElf said:

But are you seriously going to start Gordon over Barkley, assuming Barkley plays, Week 1?

he said if he doesnt play, you are a trip 

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On 8/29/2021 at 10:05 AM, polecatt said:

It certainly could be a great pick.

He's the starting RB on a run heavy team. Those are very hard to come by in the 7th round.

If he stays healthy, and the rookie struggles to get up to NFL game speed, then over 1000 yards and 8 TDs or so, with enough receiving points to make a difference, is a real possibility.

If that happens, he's a steal.

If not, and he's trapped in a RBBC, then no big deal, he's decent depth.

For the price, I'd much rather target Tevin Coleman with the same logic in the later rounds. 

Melvin Gordon is a tough watch. Not sure what happened between Wisconsin and now but he is the ultimate plodder. Not sure there's a slower RB in the NFL.

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I’d much rather have everyone I draft with target Coleman later also.

He is playing on an awfull team in a true four way RBBC, and he’s never lived up to his hype. 

I’ll suffer with the better player, Gordon on the better team, which will be the right pick.  

Thanks w 

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2 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

For the price, I'd much rather target Tevin Coleman with the same logic in the later rounds. 

Melvin Gordon is a tough watch. Not sure what happened between Wisconsin and now but he is the ultimate plodder. Not sure there's a slower RB in the NFL.

That is a good one.. Gordon was like RB 14 last year. The Jets like Ty Johnson better than Coleman, plus at some point Carter will be inserted more. Gordon will be the 60 on a 60/40 split.. at least haft the year. Thats fine with me

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10 minutes ago, snatchit said:

The Jets like Ty Johnson better than Coleman

They should probly move him ahead of Coleman on the depth chart then.

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Just now, snatchit said:

That is a good one.. Gordon was like RB 14 last year. The Jets like Ty Johnson better than Coleman, plus at some point Carter will be inserted more. Gordon will be the 60 on a 60/40 split.. at least haft the year. Thats fine with me

Idk if either statement here is true. We can all make predictions and assumptions but I think the Jets featured Ty Johnson heavily in that last preseason game because he might have still been on the roster bubble. He started but he split series with Michael Carter. Josh Adams was subsequently cut. The Eagles player that he lowered the shoulder on for that impressive run was also cut by the eagles. 

Forgive me for not being too hyped on Ty Johnson for the simple fact that he's been in the league and specifically with the Jets for 11 games last year. Not sure why they would make such a priority to sign a quality FA and draft a RB early if they were sold on Johnson. Of course opinions can change during training camp and preseason, which Johnson was not with the Jets for last year.

FWIW the Lions waived him.

Now as for Gordon, him and Javonte share a similar style, big strong bruiser. Javonte isn't going to be coming in on 3rd downs. I'd expect them to alternate series at the beginning until Javonte takes over. If Gordon was guaranteed the 3rd down work then he might have stand alone value even after Javonte takes over. I just don't see it happening. Every year he looks slower and slower. 

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14 minutes ago, snatchit said:

That is a good one.. Gordon was like RB 14 last year. The Jets like Ty Johnson better than Coleman, plus at some point Carter will be inserted more. Gordon will be the 60 on a 60/40 split.. at least haft the year. Thats fine with me

Were you being sarcastic with the "That's a good one"? Do you think Melvin Gordon is good? WOOOOFFFFF

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9 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Were you being sarcastic with the "That's a good one"? Do you think Melvin Gordon is good? WOOOOFFFFF

Melvin Gordon's career 16-game season average is 50 receptions, 1416 total yards, and 11 total TD's.  That equates to 258 fantasy points.  Not counting last year against Coleman, his career 16-game season average is 26 receptions, 931 total yards, and 8 total TD's.  That equates to 167 fantasy points.

Based on average fpg (with players playing at least 10 games), since 2016, Gordon was RB5, RB6, RB5, RB14, RB22.  So yeah, I think one could make a legitimate argument that Melvin Gordon is "good".  In that same time frame, Coleman was RB13, RB21, RB24, RB35... for both, I did not count their rookie seasons.  I also didn't count last year for Coleman, since he only played 8 games.  If you had to choose one of these guys, I think it's pretty clear on who that one guy should be.

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1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Melvin Gordon's career 16-game season average is 50 receptions, 1416 total yards, and 11 total TD's.  That equates to 258 fantasy points.  Not counting last year against Coleman, his career 16-game season average is 26 receptions, 931 total yards, and 8 total TD's.  That equates to 167 fantasy points.

Based on average fpg (with players playing at least 10 games), since 2016, Gordon was RB5, RB6, RB5, RB14, RB22.  So yeah, I think one could make a legitimate argument that Melvin Gordon is "good".  In that same time frame, Coleman was RB13, RB21, RB24, RB35... for both, I did not count their rookie seasons.  I also didn't count last year for Coleman, since he only played 8 games.  If you had to choose one of these guys, I think it's pretty clear on who that one guy should be.

agreed. Gordon is better than coleman.

but I will point out you probably cant count on Gordon reaching his career average of 50 receptions a year.

Phil Rivers checked down to his RB's a LOT.   he no longer has Rivers for a QB and the first year away from him showed roughly 30 receptions.

what we dont know is whether this is the new normal for him or not.

for now I'd project 30-40 catches for him even knowing there is the possibility that the 30 catches he made last year is the new normal.

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31 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

agreed. Gordon is better than coleman.

but I will point out you probably cant count on Gordon reaching his career average of 50 receptions a year.

Phil Rivers checked down to his RB's a LOT.   he no longer has Rivers for a QB and the first year away from him showed roughly 30 receptions.

what we dont know is whether this is the new normal for him or not.

for now I'd project 30-40 catches for him even knowing there is the possibility that the 30 catches he made last year is the new normal.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this.  Gordon has good hands.  With Bridgewater, McCaffrey averaged 6 receptions per game early on, so Bridgewater was clearly willing and able to check down with him.  Is Gordon as good as McCaffrey?  No... but he's at least as good as Davis... who had 59 receptions last year.  My only issue on Gordon is playing time.  I don't know if Williams will take his job and if he does... when?  But, if/when, Gordon is on the field, I think he can/will be productive on the ground and through the air.

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There is no case between Gordon and Coleman, Gordon is better . 

But Gordon won’t match 40 targets he had last season, J Williams is even with him right now, I see a 50/50 split today, and leaning more towards J Williams as the season goes on.  

But Gordon over Coleman  is a easy pick, Coleman is on an awful team, plus Jets will have a RBBC of four Rbs. 

Thanks w

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On 8/29/2021 at 4:20 PM, weepaws said:

J Williams will be the Broncos rb1 before long, stealing if you get him in the 7th. 

Hes a stud and I think he’ll be even better then Harris. 

I concur.

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4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Melvin Gordon's career 16-game season average is 50 receptions, 1416 total yards, and 11 total TD's.  That equates to 258 fantasy points.  Not counting last year against Coleman, his career 16-game season average is 26 receptions, 931 total yards, and 8 total TD's.  That equates to 167 fantasy points.

Based on average fpg (with players playing at least 10 games), since 2016, Gordon was RB5, RB6, RB5, RB14, RB22.  So yeah, I think one could make a legitimate argument that Melvin Gordon is "good".  In that same time frame, Coleman was RB13, RB21, RB24, RB35... for both, I did not count their rookie seasons.  I also didn't count last year for Coleman, since he only played 8 games.  If you had to choose one of these guys, I think it's pretty clear on who that one guy should be.

Why are we comparing these 2 RBs? I’m not saying Coleman is great. I’m saying Gordon is the slowest plodder of a RB in the NFL and no stat you toss my way is gonna change that. Watch some of the games instead of digging for stats. Anyone can look up stats.

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7 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Why are we comparing these 2 RBs? I’m not saying Coleman is great. I’m saying Gordon is the slowest plodder of a RB in the NFL and no stat you toss my way is gonna change that. Watch some of the games instead of digging for stats. Anyone can look up stats.

Emmitt Smiff was slower

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10 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

Why are we comparing these 2 RBs? I’m not saying Coleman is great. I’m saying Gordon is the slowest plodder of a RB in the NFL and no stat you toss my way is gonna change that. Watch some of the games instead of digging for stats. Anyone can look up stats.

Why?  Because in an earlier post you said  "For the price, I'd much rather target Tevin Coleman with the same logic in the later rounds."  You brought him up as a guy you'd rather target.  I simply pointed out that with Gordon, you're much more likely to get a top 15 back than you are with Coleman.  Getting Coleman in the later rounds most likely won't yield you the same return... which is why you'd have to draft Gordon much sooner than Coleman.

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5 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Why?  Because in an earlier post you said  "For the price, I'd much rather target Tevin Coleman with the same logic in the later rounds."  You brought him up as a guy you'd rather target.  I simply pointed out that with Gordon, you're much more likely to get a top 15 back than you are with Coleman.  Getting Coleman in the later rounds most likely won't yield you the same return... which is why you'd have to draft Gordon much sooner than Coleman.

I understand how ADPs and player values work. Again I much prefer Coleman after round 11 than I do targeting Gordon around 7-8. Thanks.

You keep avoiding the only point I'm trying to make.

Would you dispute that Melvin Gordon is the slowest RB in the NFL? Last season he didn't have a shiny new toy rookie to look over his shoulder. For anyone expecting him to put up any numbers similar to last season is extremely wishful thinking.

He's not the same player he was at Wisconsin. Watch some highlights from last year. It's like he's running thru mud.

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IMO the main thing keeping Melvin Gordon employed in the NFL is his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield but most importantly is his ability to block in pass protection. Rivers used to rave about his ability to pick up the blitz and in general keep Rivers upright. Unfortunately we don't have fantasy scoring for blocking assignments or blitz pickups. If we did, Gordon would be a 1st round pick.

 

As a pure runner, he's one of the worst in the NFL.

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3 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I understand how ADPs and player values work. Again I much prefer Coleman after round 11 than I do targeting Gordon around 7-8. Thanks.

You keep avoiding the only point I'm trying to make.

Would you dispute that Melvin Gordon is the slowest RB in the NFL? Last season he didn't have a shiny new toy rookie to look over his shoulder. For anyone expecting him to put up any numbers similar to last season is extremely wishful thinking.

He's not the same player he was at Wisconsin. Watch some highlights from last year. It's like he's running thru mud.

sorry to break it to you my friend, Gordon is the RB to own in Denver... for at least the 1st half of the season. Yes the rooky is more explosive, but it doesnt work that way. Elliott in Dallas looks slow compared to Pollard, but Elliott is the experienced back. Not sure why you keep bring up Wisconsin, he was a flat out stud with the Chargers. 

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1 minute ago, snatchit said:

 Yes the rooky is more explosive, but it doesnt work that way.

Yes it does work that way.

1 minute ago, snatchit said:

Elliott in Dallas looks slow compared to Pollard, but Elliott is the experienced back.  

Cowboys did not draft Pollard to replace Elliott. Both Elliott and Pollard are considerably faster than Melvin Gordon. 

 

3 minutes ago, snatchit said:

Not sure why you keep bring up Wisconsin, he was a flat out stud with the Chargers. 

Not sure why you're bringing up the Chargers.

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I would pause calling Melvin Gordon a "stud" with the chargers. Check his stats from final year in college. He was drafted 15 overall. He was solid with Chargers but I would argue his expectations were always way way higher. Only 1 season over 4 ypc? Stud? 

 

Pause. 

I think there's a little revisionist history here.

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I am saying it will be a 65/35 split at first, then at some point the rook will get the 65%. Getting a piece of the Denver running game either way...  will be a good thing.  Cheers  

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24 minutes ago, snatchit said:

Not sure why you keep bring up Wisconsin, he was a flat out stud with the Chargers. 

He scored 0 TDs on 217 touches as a rookie before he got the Wisconsin off him.

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12 minutes ago, snatchit said:

I am saying it will be a 65/35 split at first, then at some point the rook will get the 65%. Getting a piece of the Denver running game either way...  will be a good thing.  Cheers  

I think with you seemingly having no knowledge of how good (or bad) Melvin Gordon actually is, you're gonna be severely disappointed. Fantasy points is not always a direct correlation with talent. A lot of times it's volume and opportunity. Ask Mike Davis. Don't tell me you think he's good too.

 

LOL Cheers.

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I can think what I want,  and you can think what you want... I trust my thoughts over yours for sure. Your statement makes zero sense, I said who ever is running the ball in the Denver system will be good.. and that I wanted a piece of it. 

Some people here just like to argue, to try and show how smart they are... its a annoying. Maybe you and AxeElf ought to hang out. 

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3 minutes ago, snatchit said:

Some people here just like to argue, to try and show how smart they are... its a annoying. Maybe you and AxeElf ought to hang out.

He would probly get bored, as Axe Elf eschews argumentation for education.

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12 minutes ago, snatchit said:

Your statement makes zero sense, I said who ever is running the ball in the Denver system will be good..

What part of Melvin Gordon is slow doesn't make sense? There's no need for stats to prove or disprove my point because the fact remains, Melvin Gordon is really slow. Why is my simple observation upsetting you so much? 

You called him a stud with Chargers which he certainly was not. All I'm saying is I USED to think Melvin Gordon was a stud but that mostly came from watching him in college. He was an absolute MONSTER in college. That was a long time ago. Players wear down, bodies break down.

What Gordon put on film last season was tough to watch. Remember what Ajayi looked like his final few years? Yeah that's how slow he looks.

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36 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

He would probly get bored, as Axe Elf eschews argumentation for education.

good one, I just like giving you guys crap. I appreciate anyone taking time to contribute to the forum

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14 minutes ago, LoOnAtIk said:

What Gordon put on film last season was tough to watch.

I'm going to jump in to mediate this discussion, starting with agreement in full with the above.  I noticed it myself in casual Red Zone Channel viewing.  He did indeed look like he was running in mud.  So I largely avoided him this summer, figuring the writing was on the wall with the drafting of Williams.

And Williams looked great--quick, fast, decisive--in the first preseason game this year.  I wrote off Gordon completely.

But Williams has looked far worse in the last two games--and Gordon has looked far better.  Not like in his prime, maybe, but definitely more pep in his step than the film of him last season would show.

So now I'm back to suspending judgment--and I've even drafted Gordon again (for a grand total of two shares now).  It's starting to look more plausible that Gordon could retain that 60% share through most, if not all, of the season--if he can keep this up.  And even if he gradually reverts to a 40% share, he's looked good enough that they shouldn't need to abandon him entirely, even if there is a passing of the torch over the course of the season.

Maybe he just din't like Drew Lock, who knows?  Maybe he wasn't all the way back from his 2019 holdout.  Maybe after he got that DUI last October, he got clean and sober and that's being reflected in his fitness and performance this year.

Whatever it is, I'm kind of slotting him in as a potential RB4 in best ball leagues again, anyway.

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Last season was Gordon’s worst avg per game since his rookie season, I would agree he’s slowing down. 

But he’s was still a low rb2 , and less work might even help make it more productive.

I would rather have Gordon as my rb4 then any Jets Rbs. 

Thanks w

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9 hours ago, weepaws said:

Last season was Gordon’s worst avg per game since his rookie season, I would agree he’s slowing down. 

But he’s was still a low rb2 , and less work might even help make it more productive.

I would rather have Gordon as my rb4 then any Jets Rbs. 

Thanks w

THere was a a lot going on with Denver last year that wasnt good. He still had 4.6 ypc. Bridgewater will check the ball down to him plenty. It wont last forever, but he will be a useful flex in ppr. 

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We know J Williams isn’t going to be used right away on the passing game , and probably not much at all this season in the passing , so that where owning Gordon on a ppr league will be a benefit 

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14 hours ago, LoOnAtIk said:

I understand how ADPs and player values work. Again I much prefer Coleman after round 11 than I do targeting Gordon around 7-8. Thanks.

You keep avoiding the only point I'm trying to make.

Would you dispute that Melvin Gordon is the slowest RB in the NFL? Last season he didn't have a shiny new toy rookie to look over his shoulder. For anyone expecting him to put up any numbers similar to last season is extremely wishful thinking.

He's not the same player he was at Wisconsin. Watch some highlights from last year. It's like he's running thru mud.

I think you're combining me with other people.  I only responded to you twice.  Once when you apparently thought Gordon stunk (by saying "WOOOOFFFFF"), and the other concerning ADP.  I think Gordon is a solid player.  He's not great, but he doesn't stink.  I think getting a potential RB2 in rounds 7-8 is more valuable than getting an RB3, 3 or 4 rounds later.  Why?  Because I can start the RB2 every week and the RB3... he may or may not be a flex option.  I value starters more than backups.  You apparently don't, because you're rather have the occasional flex guy over a regular starter.

How do I keep avoiding the point you're trying to make?  You're very first post... and very first sentence was: "For the price, I'd much rather target Tevin Coleman with the same logic in the later rounds."  I responded to that in both of my posts.

I have no idea if he's the slowest RB in the league.  I'll even concede that he is.  I don't know what that proves though.  While being the slowest RB in the NFL, he's still managed to average 3.125 receptions, 88.5 total yards, and 0.6875 total TD's per game, over his career.  Do the math.  That equates to 16.1 fpg.  Last year, he averaged 13.76 fpg.  I think Locke's ineffectiveness had a bigger role in that than Gordon being slow.

Running through mud and still finished RB14 in total points.  I'll take that over the speedy Tevin Coleman who had only 87 total yards last year in 8 games.

 

I think both Gordon and Coleman are in fact on borrowed time, based on their respective teams drafting RB's this past April (May? - whenever).  That said, the upside with Gordon is vastly superior to Coleman's, regardless of how fast or slow each are.  Ideally, I'd rather avoid Gordon at R7/8 and get him a couple rounds later.  Sure, that would put him in Coleman territory, but I have EVERY Jets player on my DND list.  I wouldn't draft Coleman with the last pick in the draft.  I'd rather take a backup kicker.

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