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polecatt

Trey Lance

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It's looking like Jimmy G is gonna miss a game or two. That means Trey Lance will start at QB.

I don't know, the rookie QB was dubbed as a great one, yet we've not really seen any of the rookie QBs look great.

I'm not saying they've all sucked or they're all gonna be busts, but none of them have really been big for fantasy purposes.

I could be wrong of course, but I think Trey Lance is gonna blow up, big time, for fantasy. If he starts a couple of games, I think it's gonna be hard for them to go back

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38 minutes ago, polecatt said:

It's looking like Jimmy G is gonna miss a game or two. That means Trey Lance will start at QB.

I don't know, the rookie QB was dubbed as a great one, yet we've not really seen any of the rookie QBs look great.

I'm not saying they've all sucked or they're all gonna be busts, but none of them have really been big for fantasy purposes.

I could be wrong of course, but I think Trey Lance is gonna blow up, big time, for fantasy. If he starts a couple of games, I think it's gonna be hard for them to go back

Do you remember Steve Young, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning... when they were rookies? 

To judge these guys on their first few games in the NFL is foolish. 

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Lance has KS offense with insane weapons and can't do sh!t. He can't read a defense, he can't throw, he's not a good runner. He's a bad version of cam newton 

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25 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

Do you remember Steve Young, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning... when they were rookies? 

To judge these guys on their first few games in the NFL is foolish. 

All those guys rookie seasons were ages ago.

That's not what I"m doing. I'm just saying nobody has broken out yet as a fantasy stud.

It's not been so uncommon the past few season. Cam Newton, RG3, Andrew Luck, Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Kyler Murray, etc. all of those guys were solid QB1s their rookie season. Nobody has really emerged like that this season yet. I think it could be Trey Lance

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1 minute ago, polecatt said:

All those guys rookie seasons were ages ago.

That's not what I"m doing. I'm just saying nobody has broken out yet as a fantasy stud.

It's not been so uncommon the past few season. Cam Newton, RG3, Andrew Luck, Justin Herbert, Dak Prescott, Kyler Murray, etc. all of those guys were solid QB1s their rookie season. Nobody has really emerged like that this season yet. I think it could be Trey Lance

Any one of them could break out this year, next year or whatever. Hell, Trubisky could break out if Allen goes down. Lance only played like 1 full year in college didn't he? 

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I don't know, but he played a half today and over a whole game it would have been over 300 yds 4 TDs and 80 on the ground.

What little bit I've seen of him otherwise in the red zone in previous games and a little bit in preseason, I think he's gonna be really good, especially for fantasy.

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I think he’ll be ok.  

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Don't wish injuries to any player but once Garoppolo got hurt Lance played pretty good. Not that it matters but if Lance had played all game I think we woulda won. Here's hoping Lance performs well while Jommy G is out then it'll be hard for Shanny to put Garoppolo  back in. Rookie QB's can't get better unless they play. They can learn things sitting on the sidelines but nothing beats experience of playing. Play the kid and let.him go win games for you.

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Fields looks terrible. As does Hurts, but he’s a second round pick. Chicago gave up a boatload for Fields. 

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1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Fields looks terrible. As does Hurts, but he’s a second round pick. Chicago gave up a boatload for Fields. 

Ahh, not sure if you watched the game yesterday.  He looked far from terrible.

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1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Fields looks terrible. As does Hurts, but he’s a second round pick. Chicago gave up a boatload for Fields. 

Hurts is at least putting up some good fantasy numbers, but I agree, I don't think he's a long term answer at QB for the eagles

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14 minutes ago, bgard72 said:

Ahh, not sure if you watched the game yesterday.  He looked far from terrible.

11 for 17 against the Lions. I guess if you don’t let him throw  the ball he won’t look terrible. Ok, he didn’t look terrible. He didn’t look good either. 

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2 hours ago, DocNiner said:

Don't wish injuries to any player but once Garoppolo got hurt Lance played pretty good. Not that it matters but if Lance had played all game I think we woulda won. Here's hoping Lance performs well while Jommy G is out then it'll be hard for Shanny to put Garoppolo  back in. Rookie QB's can't get better unless they play. They can learn things sitting on the sidelines but nothing beats experience of playing. Play the kid and let.him go win games for you.

We must have been watching different games because i thought he looked terribly inaccurate. His timing seems off as well (not sure how many reps he is getting with the starters).  passes seemed to arrive with a little window... defenders were right on the passes, and if the wr able to grab them, not much opportunity for RATC.  

When he ran, there were quite a few times he slid before the 1st down marker.  

I also hope he learns and develops, but I don't like seeing with a competitive team (in a close game with a divisional rival).

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1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

11 for 17 against the Lions. I guess if you don’t let him throw  the ball he won’t look terrible. Ok, he didn’t look terrible. He didn’t look good either. 

11 for 17 is like 65% completion percentage...that's good.  He hit on his deep routes, which is great (Mooney on multiple deep routes).  You saw Goff missing on multiple deep routes.  Would have had some TD's, but Monty was too much of a beast running in 9 yarders and other runs within the 10.

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13 minutes ago, bgard72 said:

11 for 17 is like 65% completion percentage...that's good.  He hit on his deep routes, which is great (Mooney on multiple deep routes).  You saw Goff missing on multiple deep routes.  Would have had some TD's, but Monty was too much of a beast running in 9 yarders and other runs within the 10.

Bill Lazor the OC of the Bears took over the play calling from Nagy (for at least this one game), and when Fields was asked how he liked have Lazor call the plays he said, and I'm paraphrasing, "It was really good. Bill is up in the box so his voice is really calm calling the plays. He did a great job today. Matt has to deal with the defense and special teams and other things on the field."

Basically he was saying that Nagy can't keep focused and steady on the offensive play calling. :lol: And he would be right. 

Justin Fields Accidentally Trashes Matt Nagy’s Play Calling During Presser

It feels like Fields may have offered an inside look at what Nagy’s biggest problem is. An inability to focus. One of the biggest problems for somebody pulling double duty as head coach and play caller is their attention can be pulled in so many different directions. Not everybody is equipped to handle that sort of responsibility. From what he is saying, Nagy has a bad tendency to lose his focus during offensive drives.

This may go a long way in explaining the problems that persisted with the Bears’ offense. Things like the inability to get plays in on time, leading to a constant burning of timeouts or delay of games. Erratic substitutions and sometimes just not recognizing the situations. Most presume this is merely because Nagy is dumb. From what Fields is saying, it might be because he lacks the ability to compartmentalize his thoughts when calling plays.

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/justin-fields-accidentally-trashes-matt-nagys-play-calling-during-presser/

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55 minutes ago, bgard72 said:

11 for 17 is like 65% completion percentage...that's good.  He hit on his deep routes, which is great (Mooney on multiple deep routes).  You saw Goff missing on multiple deep routes.  Would have had some TD's, but Monty was too much of a beast running in 9 yarders and other runs within the 10.

He hit on his deep route. 

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I think he’s going to be ok. 

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Woof the accuracy on anything downfield was bad.  

He can make some moves running the ball and with short passes and great WR's.  Dare I hope Aiyuk and his YAC might be needed with the rookie QB accuracy issues?  Lots of short dump offs and easy timing/pick routes for Deebo, Kittle and Aiyuk to use their athleticism?  Am I just trying to find a bright side and salvage my single team Aiyuk stock...maybe!

 

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I didn't see.the game so I can't comment on his accuracy or decision making but still firmly believe he's a better shot at winning games the Garoppolo.  Just think he's way more talented than Jimmy G. Garoppolo  has won games but also has lost them for us. I believe in what Matt Hasselbeck said, that rookies can learn things on the sideline but to get better they need to play. I believe.that would be the case for Lance. Once he gets some time on the field he's gonna be/get better. He's gonna definitely win us a superbowl in the future.

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21 hours ago, polecatt said:

I don't know, but he played a half today and over a whole game it would have been over 300 yds 4 TDs and 80 on the ground.

What little bit I've seen of him otherwise in the red zone in previous games and a little bit in preseason, I think he's gonna be really good, especially for fantasy.

I mean, c'mon.  The 76 yard TD was busted coverage that Lance DIDN'T EVEN SEE until Deebo had to jump up and down and basically put an advertisement on the jumbotron to get his attention.  Without that pass, he would have had, what? 60 yards total passing?

And as far as running goes - I don't know.  QBs who run, IMO, do so mostly because they're covering up the fact that they aren't very good passing QBs.  It's been that way for mostly every running QB that's ever entered the league.  At some point, they won't be able to run and then they're screwed.  Vick, Kaepernick, Cam Newton, etc..  They all went down hill once the running stopped and/or teams figured them out.   If I'm an NFL Team and I'm drafting a QB in the 1st round, I'm drafting a QB who can pass first and run second.

Yeah, he's a rookie, I get it.  But he certainly did nothing yesterday (or previous regular season games) to confirm the pre-season hype.

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1 hour ago, DocNiner said:

He's gonna definitely win us a superbowl in the future.

What are you basing this on?  The ONE season of college football that he played, TWO years ago, when he averaged 178 yards passing against FCS opposition?

Or do you have clandestine information on some closet league where Lance played and tore things up?

I don't see any information available that would suggest that Lance is in any way ready to read and react to NFL defenses as a rookie.

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Read that the Niners are saying they aren’t ready for this yet.  More of that coach speak n 

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3 hours ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I mean, c'mon.  The 76 yard TD was busted coverage that Lance DIDN'T EVEN SEE until Deebo had to jump up and down and basically put an advertisement on the jumbotron to get his attention.  Without that pass, he would have had, what? 60 yards total passing?

And as far as running goes - I don't know.  QBs who run, IMO, do so mostly because they're covering up the fact that they aren't very good passing QBs.  It's been that way for mostly every running QB that's ever entered the league.  At some point, they won't be able to run and then they're screwed.  Vick, Kaepernick, Cam Newton, etc..  They all went down hill once the running stopped and/or teams figured them out.   If I'm an NFL Team and I'm drafting a QB in the 1st round, I'm drafting a QB who can pass first and run second.

Yeah, he's a rookie, I get it.  But he certainly did nothing yesterday (or previous regular season games) to confirm the pre-season hype.

Isn't pretty much every play that goes for that much a busted coverage?   I mean how often does a team have a 76 yard play when the defense is tight with good coverage?

Blown coverage isn't really an uncommon thing, it happens, and a good QB sees it and capitalizes, just like Trey Lance did.

Saying "well, if you don't count the good plays he sucked!"  is a straw man.

Yeah, I'm sure at some point, no matter how good he may turn out to be, he'll be washed up, but that's not gonna be for a few years at least unless he gets injured.

It's clear you've already decided he's a bust

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1 hour ago, polecatt said:

Isn't pretty much every play that goes for that much a busted coverage?   I mean how often does a team have a 76 yard play when the defense is tight with good coverage?

Blown coverage isn't really an uncommon thing, it happens, and a good QB sees it and capitalizes, just like Trey Lance did.

Saying "well, if you don't count the good plays he sucked!"  is a straw man.

Yeah, I'm sure at some point, no matter how good he may turn out to be, he'll be washed up, but that's not gonna be for a few years at least unless he gets injured.

It's clear you've already decided he's a bust

Well, there are many long plays (maybe not all 76 yards) that require a good route and a good throw, that's on time.  That 76 yard TD was a total blown coverage...nobody within 15 yards...not really on time and pretty much a lob throw to a receiver standing still.  Pretty fluky IMO, and ANY NFL QB on the 3-deep would have made that throw.

Watching that entire game closely as a Hawks fan, I was very glad Lance replaced Jimmy G because Lance didn't look like he could do much other than run.  He did get better as the game went on, and he did a great job avoiding the pass rush and picked up tons of yards on the ground.  He eventually carved up the Hawks D a decent amount at the end but unfortunately that's not that hard to do right now.  

He has potential for sure, and with a full week for Shanahan to prepare the game plan, he should go much better with plays suited for him.  He didn't look ready for the primetime to me, but he could certainly put up some points.

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19 minutes ago, schmitty34 said:

Well, there are many long plays (maybe not all 76 yards) that require a good route and a good throw, that's on time.  That 76 yard TD was a total blown coverage...nobody within 15 yards...not really on time and pretty much a lob throw to a receiver standing still.  Pretty fluky IMO, and ANY NFL QB on the 3-deep would have made that throw.

Watching that entire game closely as a Hawks fan, I was very glad Lance replaced Jimmy G because Lance didn't look like he could do much other than run.  He did get better as the game went on, and he did a great job avoiding the pass rush and picked up tons of yards on the ground.  He eventually carved up the Hawks D a decent amount at the end but unfortunately that's not that hard to do right now.  

He has potential for sure, and with a full week for Shanahan to prepare the game plan, he should go much better with plays suited for him.  He didn't look ready for the primetime to me, but he could certainly put up some points.

76 yard pass plays aren't usually timing plays unless it's a short pass and long long run. 

Long bombs are usually because the receivers are covered for a while and the oline protection is good or the QB is scrambling.

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17 hours ago, polecatt said:

Isn't pretty much every play that goes for that much a busted coverage?   I mean how often does a team have a 76 yard play when the defense is tight with good coverage?

Blown coverage isn't really an uncommon thing, it happens, and a good QB sees it and capitalizes, just like Trey Lance did.

Saying "well, if you don't count the good plays he sucked!"  is a straw man.

Yeah, I'm sure at some point, no matter how good he may turn out to be, he'll be washed up, but that's not gonna be for a few years at least unless he gets injured.

It's clear you've already decided he's a bust

Thats the problem - Lance DID NOT SEE IT until Deebo had to get his attention like I specified.

I havent said he was a byst, but when I see rookie QBs run all day that tells me they srent ready, poor passing QBs or both.  Look at Trevor Lawrence ss an example of what a rookie QB does.

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22 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

76 yard pass plays aren't usually timing plays unless it's a short pass and long long run. 

Long bombs are usually because the receivers are covered for a while and the oline protection is good or the QB is scrambling.

I didn't say timing play, I said good route, good throw, and on time.  I agree that 76 yard plays are pretty rare, but there are plenty of plays in the 40, 50 or even 60 yard range that are just a WR barely beating his man + a good/great throw.  Event 70+ yard plays typically require something good from the QB. This was not one of them.  This was a total breakdown that Lance lucked into without anything good on his part.  It almost looked like he threw the ball way until you realized there was a dude standing there waiving his arms saying "I'm wide f-ing open!!"

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9 hours ago, schmitty34 said:

I didn't say timing play, I said good route, good throw, and on time.  I agree that 76 yard plays are pretty rare, but there are plenty of plays in the 40, 50 or even 60 yard range that are just a WR barely beating his man + a good/great throw.  Event 70+ yard plays typically require something good from the QB. This was not one of them.  This was a total breakdown that Lance lucked into without anything good on his part.  It almost looked like he threw the ball way until you realized there was a dude standing there waiving his arms saying "I'm wide f-ing open!!"

Stafford threw a long TD to Cooper Kupp just like that in week 1.

It looked like a lob you see in a pick up game.

If somebody is that open, it happens. It's supposed to look like it's easy then.

Why would he throw him a laser that's got a good chance of missing it's mark or being dropped instead of an easy lob?

This is like saying a basketball player sucks because he gets a wide open break away and simply shoots a lay up instead of doing a 360 windmill dunk

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I picked him up... mostly for a dart-throw trade bait scenario. 

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Must be one of those free leagues , add f/a cost zero, and no limits for add f/a pick ups.  

 

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16 hours ago, polecatt said:

Stafford threw a long TD to Cooper Kupp just like that in week 1.

It looked like a lob you see in a pick up game.

If somebody is that open, it happens. It's supposed to look like it's easy then.

Why would he throw him a laser that's got a good chance of missing it's mark or being dropped instead of an easy lob?

This is like saying a basketball player sucks because he gets a wide open break away and simply shoots a lay up instead of doing a 360 windmill dunk

LOL, that's not even close to a comparison of what I said.  I actually never said he sucked.  I said he didn't look very good for a while and then looked pretty decent at the end.  I just think the 76 yard TD proves nothing about him...good or bad...but masked the fact that he looked pretty terrible for a few drives.

Let me use your basketball example but flip it around.  I wasn't expecting a 360 dunk to prove he's good.  I'm just saying that the busted coverage 76 yd TD that didn't require him to do anything other than lob a pass to a wide open player that was waving his hands, doesn't prove he's good either.  That would be like saying a basketball player is really good because he scored 18 points, but failing to mention that 10 of them came on 5 cherry-picking layups because he didn't play D.  Sure, he scored 8 legit points on 4 of 12 shooting and looked pretty good on those 4 shots, but had 8 terrible looking shots and the rest of his scoring was just lucky wide open fast breaks that any player in the gym would make.  

My argument was against the notion that all long plays are busted coverage, when the fact is that there are many long plays that display the QBs ability to make a great throw down field...this simply was not one of them.  Lance doesn't suck because of that play, but that play does little to nothing to gauge how good he might be...so yeah, you kind of have to ignore that one if trying to evaluate his performance.  

 

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36 minutes ago, schmitty34 said:

LOL, that's not even close to a comparison of what I said.  I actually never said he sucked.  I said he didn't look very good for a while and then looked pretty decent at the end.  I just think the 76 yard TD proves nothing about him...good or bad...but masked the fact that he looked pretty terrible for a few drives.

Let me use your basketball example but flip it around.  I wasn't expecting a 360 dunk to prove he's good.  I'm just saying that the busted coverage 76 yd TD that didn't require him to do anything other than lob a pass to a wide open player that was waving his hands, doesn't prove he's good either.  That would be like saying a basketball player is really good because he scored 18 points, but failing to mention that 10 of them came on 5 cherry-picking layups because he didn't play D.  Sure, he scored 8 legit points on 4 of 12 shooting and looked pretty good on those 4 shots, but had 8 terrible looking shots and the rest of his scoring was just lucky wide open fast breaks that any player in the gym would make.  

My argument was against the notion that all long plays are busted coverage, when the fact is that there are many long plays that display the QBs ability to make a great throw down field...this simply was not one of them.  Lance doesn't suck because of that play, but that play does little to nothing to gauge how good he might be...so yeah, you kind of have to ignore that one if trying to evaluate his performance.  

 

wow. :blink:

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29 minutes ago, Utilit99 said:

wow

lol  I was thinking the same thing, like, that's the most tortured analogy in the history of tortured analogies.

I mean, what if it wasn't 5 cherry-picked layups and he had a couple of three-pointers sprinkled in?  Would Lance be better, or worse?

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7 hours ago, AxeElf said:

lol  I was thinking the same thing, like, that's the most tortured analogy in the history of tortured analogies.

I mean, what if it wasn't 5 cherry-picked layups and he had a couple of three-pointers sprinkled in?  Would Lance be better, or worse?

I vote worse, because clearly his shot form was pretty ugly so I think the 3s were luck.

I do love to torture an analogy.

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Raw, inconsistent, but can run and scramble and has a strong arm strength. Suggests a low completion %, some rushing production, and a couple of big gainers resulting from a combination of scrambling and coverage breakdowns. Bump down if Kittle doesn’t play.

I expect lower volume with SF trying to eat clock and keep Murray off the field.

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I watched some of today's game.

he reminds me of Tim Teebow.   but he throws better than Teebow did.

but in terms of the way they play.  nearly the same.

good news is... his ability to throw may allow him to do more things than teebow was able to do.

whether that happens or not remains to be seen.  but hes definitely not a finished product.  Not yet anyways.  I can see why they wanted to let him sit a while before starting him.

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