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KC Defense what the hell man

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There's never any reason to "target" a defense in fantasy football.  Even if they were elite the prior year because a lot of the reasons why defenses score points are unprojectable.  You can't predict TD's, turnovers, or sacks.  One player gets hurt and a team can shuffle their entire game plan.  One player leaves and the hole they leave gets filled by a lesser player.  Schedules change every year and opponents get either harder or easier.  None of that can be predicted.  Simply, like @weepaws said, "stream".  That's always the right path to take with defenses.

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4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

There's never any reason to "target" a defense in fantasy football.  Even if they were elite the prior year because a lot of the reasons why defenses score points are unprojectable.  You can't predict TD's, turnovers, or sacks.  One player gets hurt and a team can shuffle their entire game plan.  One player leaves and the hole they leave gets filled by a lesser player.  Schedules change every year and opponents get either harder or easier.  None of that can be predicted.  Simply, like @weepaws said, "stream".  That's always the right path to take with defenses.

Agreed

Im almost at the point to create a league poll to eliminate defenses, add another Flex 

We dropped kickers 3 years ago and it’s great saying good bye to that weekly crap shoot 

All leagues will eventually drop Kickers 

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I would be against dropping kickers in my league.  I somehow end up with top 3 kicker points every year because people overthink it.

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Most leagues give negative points for excessive points allowed.  Maybe when it gets cold and offenses stop scoring so much, KC defense will rise up.  

In my league, we only give points for turnovers, sacks, and TDs scored on special teams or defense.  I shoot for the defenses like KC just because there is usually a ton of chances to get stats.

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14 minutes ago, nobody said:

Most leagues give negative points for excessive points allowed.  Maybe when it gets cold and offenses stop scoring so much, KC defense will rise up.  

In my league, we only give points for turnovers, sacks, and TDs scored on special teams or defense.  I shoot for the defenses like KC just because there is usually a ton of chances to get stats.

The under yardage points is good, it rewards good defensive play that helped the team win

The fact that Streaming defenses and kickers is a thing, is why they should be dropped

You didn’t draft them or study them like offensive players 

they’re all little soccer players that can all kick, it’s the randomness of the game flow and unpredictability that’s brings more luck that we all don’t need 

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Yea I can’t see giving up on Kickers and Def for ff.  

I would like to vote out a te slot.  Would rather see Wr/Te slot and go three wr/ te slot and a flex. 

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2 hours ago, weepaws said:

Yea I can’t see giving up on Kickers and Def for ff.  

I would like to vote out a te slot.  Would rather see Wr/Te slot and go three wr/ te slot and a flex. 

It wasn't my decision, the League voted Kickers out, almost unanimously.  Once you get burned by a Kicker freak 5FG game, and take a Loss and it affects the standings.

Funny thing, the only 2 guys who voted for Kickers were old school guys, that resist any change.

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Yea in my main league since late 1980es we vote on changes every couple of seasons , we vote this season, we already voted to change a 14 team non ppr to a 14 half point ppr. And next up is to vote for te slot, I’ve been trying to change it for some time, I would rather have 3  wr/ te slot plus one flex, right now it’s 2 wr and Te plus flex.  

 

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If I ruled the world kickers would only get points for kicks over 45 yards but they would be big points, and they would get big points for game winners, but they should get nothing for PAT's and chip shots, and be penalized heavily when they miss those. 

Defenses should get bonus points for wins and for third and 4th down stops, as well as holding teams in the redzone to field goals. Defenses are too boom or bust for my taste. A team that over all gets the job done can end up with 2-3 points just because it's a shoot out, even though they won and made key plays, not right. They should also be penalized for losses and giving up key plays. 

There's ways to make kickers and defenses more interesting without giving up on them completely. 

 

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1 hour ago, erikthebassist said:

If I ruled the world kickers would only get points for kicks over 45 yards but they would be big points, and they would get big points for game winners, but they should get nothing for PAT's and chip shots, and be penalized heavily when they miss those. 

Defenses should get bonus points for wins and for third and 4th down stops, as well as holding teams in the redzone to field goals. Defenses are too boom or bust for my taste. A team that over all gets the job done can end up with 2-3 points just because it's a shoot out, even though they won and made key plays, not right. They should also be penalized for losses and giving up key plays. 

There's ways to make kickers and defenses more interesting without giving up on them completely. 

 

It's fantasy football. You don't have to rule the world. Just start your own league.

I don't mind kickers, have them or don't. I mostly hate leagues that have 3 or more flex spots. A third flex spot is more random scoring than a kicker.

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Getting back OT

Is KC DST a good start this week vs Washington ?  I have Cleveland vs ARZ, and thinking Chiefs will soon get it together, with the Defense getting better opportunities for sacks, INTs, pick 6, etc.

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Who else is available via f/a pick ups? Is there a better stream available?m

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28 minutes ago, plasma george said:

Getting back OT

Is KC DST a good start this week vs Washington ?  I have Cleveland vs ARZ, and thinking Chiefs will soon get it together, with the Defense getting better opportunities for sacks, INTs, pick 6, etc.

Yeah, they're just as good as any this week.

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15 hours ago, erikthebassist said:

If I ruled the world kickers would only get points for kicks over 45 yards but they would be big points, and they would get big points for game winners, but they should get nothing for PAT's and chip shots, and be penalized heavily when they miss those. 

Defenses should get bonus points for wins and for third and 4th down stops, as well as holding teams in the redzone to field goals. Defenses are too boom or bust for my taste. A team that over all gets the job done can end up with 2-3 points just because it's a shoot out, even though they won and made key plays, not right. They should also be penalized for losses and giving up key plays. 

There's ways to make kickers and defenses more interesting without giving up on them completely. 

 

This would definitely be better, but do any websites allow that kind of thing?

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2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

This would definitely be better, but do any websites allow that kind of thing?

not that I am aware of.

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10 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Who else is available via f/a pick ups? Is there a better stream available?m

Thanks

In order of projected FF points this week....Lions, Broncos, Jaguars, Seahawks, Giants, Vikings, Steelers, Dolphins, Cardinals, Chargers

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Were supposed to be great this season or something?

They've not exactly been winning these past couple of years because of their D

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48 minutes ago, polecatt said:

Were supposed to be great this season or something?

They've not exactly been winning these past couple of years because of their D

No, but the last two years they were middle of the pack in yards against, this year they're #31.  They were top 10 in points against, this year, they're #32.  The biggest difference is that they're actually playing a touch schedule.  So far they've played Cleveland, Baltimore, Chargers, and Bills, who are a combined 14-4.

Their schedule doesn't really get much easier.  Yeah, they get the NFC East and still have Washington (this week), and the Giants to play, but there are no other cream puffs.  Denver isn't great, but they have an excellent defense and some talent on offense, but that's next easiest on their schedule.  They still have Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Dallas, Green Bay, and Tennessee left, plus one more vs LA and two vs the Raiders.  Honestly, I think they're going to be around .500 this year.

The 3 teams that played a Tampa style defense against them, had them beat... two did win, in the Chargers and Bills.  They should've lost to the Browns, but the Browns got scared and went prevent in the 4th Q and blew it.  Teams found out that if you "contain", not stop, Kelce and Hill, there are no other players on that offense that can hurt you.  The Chiefs are in trouble if they don't draft well.  They won't have the capital to upgrade in free agency with Mahomes', Kelce's, and Hill's huge contracts.  You can only kick the can so far... just look at the Saints.  After that Super Bowl in 2009, they've been pretenders ever since.  They never won more than 1 playoff game in any given year, went 5-7 in the playoffs and had a losing record the other 4 years.

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35 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No, but the last two years they were middle of the pack in yards against, this year they're #31.  They were top 10 in points against, this year, they're #32.  The biggest difference is that they're actually playing a touch schedule.  So far they've played Cleveland, Baltimore, Chargers, and Bills, who are a combined 14-4.

Their schedule doesn't really get much easier.  Yeah, they get the NFC East and still have Washington (this week), and the Giants to play, but there are no other cream puffs.  Denver isn't great, but they have an excellent defense and some talent on offense, but that's next easiest on their schedule.  They still have Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Dallas, Green Bay, and Tennessee left, plus one more vs LA and two vs the Raiders.  Honestly, I think they're going to be around .500 this year.

The 3 teams that played a Tampa style defense against them, had them beat... two did win, in the Chargers and Bills.  They should've lost to the Browns, but the Browns got scared and went prevent in the 4th Q and blew it.  Teams found out that if you "contain", not stop, Kelce and Hill, there are no other players on that offense that can hurt you.  The Chiefs are in trouble if they don't draft well.  They won't have the capital to upgrade in free agency with Mahomes', Kelce's, and Hill's huge contracts.  You can only kick the can so far... just look at the Saints.  After that Super Bowl in 2009, they've been pretenders ever since.  They never won more than 1 playoff game in any given year, went 5-7 in the playoffs and had a losing record the other 4 years.

I agree with everything said here.

tougher schedule makes it harder for sure.

but the KC defense has never really been THAT good.   they give up yards, and points.  the defense has been good in fantasy because when teams get one or two TD's behind KC they take more chances than they normally would with other teams due to the potency of the KC offense.   QB's start taking chances with the football to put up points to keep up with what Mahomes and company have been doing.   As a result, the defense gets a few bonus INT that they wouldn't get under normal circumstances.

A better team are less likely to resort to that and more likely to stick to the gameplan.

so to that end, the tougher schedule has probably been the main reason. 

Strength of schedule is just as important in determining your fantasy studs for the year.   Dak Prescott is a fine QB.  but he put up top 5 numbers with what may have been the easiest schedule in the NFL for 2 years against creampuff defenses in his own division (2 matchups for each team) and some really nice out of division matchups as well.

hes not a top 5 QB but he put up top 5 numbers due to an easy schedule.    Not saying hes crappy.  hes probably a top 10 QB under normal conditions.  but the top 5 numbers made him look better than he is because of the easy schedule he had.    so its no surprise that the KC defense is not doing as well because the caliber of opposition is better than last year.

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21 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

I agree with everything said here.

tougher schedule makes it harder for sure.

but the KC defense has never really been THAT good.   they give up yards, and points.  the defense has been good in fantasy because when teams get one or two TD's behind KC they take more chances than they normally would with other teams due to the potency of the KC offense.   QB's start taking chances with the football to put up points to keep up with what Mahomes and company have been doing.   As a result, the defense gets a few bonus INT that they wouldn't get under normal circumstances.

A better team are less likely to resort to that and more likely to stick to the gameplan.

so to that end, the tougher schedule has probably been the main reason. 

Strength of schedule is just as important in determining your fantasy studs for the year.   Dak Prescott is a fine QB.  but he put up top 5 numbers with what may have been the easiest schedule in the NFL for 2 years against creampuff defenses in his own division (2 matchups for each team) and some really nice out of division matchups as well.

hes not a top 5 QB but he put up top 5 numbers due to an easy schedule.    Not saying hes crappy.  hes probably a top 10 QB under normal conditions.  but the top 5 numbers made him look better than he is because of the easy schedule he had.    so its no surprise that the KC defense is not doing as well because the caliber of opposition is better than last year.

They were never great, but they were decent, by optics.  The last two years they were top 10 in points and at least league average in yards.  The main reason for that, I believe, is because their opponents were predictable because the KC offense was insane.  Teams know have the recipe to make them more manageable, so the defense is now forced to actually play defense, and they can't.

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1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No, but the last two years they were middle of the pack in yards against, this year they're #31.  They were top 10 in points against, this year, they're #32.  The biggest difference is that they're actually playing a touch schedule.  So far they've played Cleveland, Baltimore, Chargers, and Bills, who are a combined 14-4.

Their schedule doesn't really get much easier.  Yeah, they get the NFC East and still have Washington (this week), and the Giants to play, but there are no other cream puffs.  Denver isn't great, but they have an excellent defense and some talent on offense, but that's next easiest on their schedule.  They still have Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Dallas, Green Bay, and Tennessee left, plus one more vs LA and two vs the Raiders.  Honestly, I think they're going to be around .500 this year.

The 3 teams that played a Tampa style defense against them, had them beat... two did win, in the Chargers and Bills.  They should've lost to the Browns, but the Browns got scared and went prevent in the 4th Q and blew it.  Teams found out that if you "contain", not stop, Kelce and Hill, there are no other players on that offense that can hurt you.  The Chiefs are in trouble if they don't draft well.  They won't have the capital to upgrade in free agency with Mahomes', Kelce's, and Hill's huge contracts.  You can only kick the can so far... just look at the Saints.  After that Super Bowl in 2009, they've been pretenders ever since.  They never won more than 1 playoff game in any given year, went 5-7 in the playoffs and had a losing record the other 4 years.

Yeah, I was talking about mainly for fantasy purposes, they've not been more than a streaming D.

You're right though, it's what happens when a team hits the wall a bit. They go stale, everybody knows how to play them, they lose a couple of key role players, have a bad contract, etc.

It's happened to the Saints, Seahawks, Packers, Steelers, in the past decade or so. All won a Super Bowl with a young, elite QB, and been a disappointment since. That very well could be the faith of the Chiefs.

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3 minutes ago, polecatt said:

Yeah, I was talking about mainly for fantasy purposes, they've not been more than a streaming D.

You're right though, it's what happens when a team hits the wall a bit. They go stale, everybody knows how to play them, they lose a couple of key role players, have a bad contract, etc.

It's happened to the Saints, Seahawks, Packers, Steelers, in the past decade or so. All won a Super Bowl with a young, elite QB, and been a disappointment since. That very well could be the faith of the Chiefs.

Yeah, I just wanted to give more background into why I said what I did.  That's all.  Since it is about football and all, I still went with it.  

For fantasy purposes though, defenses are always a crap shoot and points against is meaningless.  Last year Pittsburgh gave up an average of 19 ppg.  In fantasy terms, that's 0 points... on average.  It's all about sacks, turnovers, and TD's... not of which can really be predicted.  It's more about the opponents OLine and QB than anything else and less about the defense.

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4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, I just wanted to give more background into why I said what I did.  That's all.  Since it is about football and all, I still went with it.  

For fantasy purposes though, defenses are always a crap shoot and points against is meaningless.  Last year Pittsburgh gave up an average of 19 ppg.  In fantasy terms, that's 0 points... on average.  It's all about sacks, turnovers, and TD's... not of which can really be predicted.  It's more about the opponents OLine and QB than anything else and less about the defense.

Yeah, I've certainly learned over the years to not get attached to a specific D/ST.  There really isn't such a thing any more as a dominant defense.

The Monsters of the Midway, the Purple People Eaters, the Doomsday D, the Steel Curtain, even the Ravens D, those days are over. Defense is more like it is in basketball, mostly just there to slow down the offense, not stop them. Any D can torched on any given week. Streaming really is the way to go, it's mostly about match ups.

That said, I remember the Patriots got off to such a hot start the first half of last season, their D was the front runner for fantasy MVP. Then they kind of fizzled out for the playoffs when the competition got a little stiffer.

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6 hours ago, plasma george said:

Thanks

In order of projected FF points this week....Lions, Broncos, Jaguars, Seahawks, Giants, Vikings, Steelers, Dolphins, Cardinals, Chargers

Steelers Vs a beat up Seahawks team.  No Wilson no Carson, Steelers at home that’s the pick   

 

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6 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

They were never great, but they were decent, by optics.  The last two years they were top 10 in points and at least league average in yards.  The main reason for that, I believe, is because their opponents were predictable because the KC offense was insane.  Teams know have the recipe to make them more manageable, so the defense is now forced to actually play defense, and they can't.

yeah and part of that was because the offense had a lot of long drives that kept the defense fresh and off the field.   It still does.  maybe just not as much as last year due to higher calibre opponents.

so that extra few minutes on the field takes its toll.  especially late in games when the D is tired.   Thats where you see it.

 

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13 hours ago, weepaws said:

Steelers Vs a beat up Seahawks team.  No Wilson no Carson, Steelers at home that’s the pick   

 

Bingo, I just read about both Wilson and Carson, ouch that sucks for Seahags

Thanks brother

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