The reason women’s athletes don’t get paid the same as males

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

4 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

I think the bigger question is are they being paid proportionately?   X% of revenue generated. We need to look at apples to apples. Are they measuring growth to their leagues?  

Men's soccer is huge globally, but lower in the pecking order in the USA.  

USAWNT has been wonderful, but they just don't draw the same.

Judge recently dismissed the claim for the USWNT because the women made more than the men.

Quote

The judge pointed out that the women’s team had actually earned more “on both a cumulative and an average per-game basis” than the men’s team during the years in the lawsuit.

 

[Utilit99 4,099]

Who here thinks they have watched the most wnba basketball?

As for me, I think I may have watched once about 12 seconds of one game. Well, I probably was doing something else but I think the game was on in front of me for that long. Beat that. 

[Herbivore 905]

15 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No they don't.  The courts found that the women get paid more.

don't know exactly, but from what i understand, that is the argument.  kind of don't believe your court statement

[Herbivore 905]

15 minutes ago, RLLD said:

This topic is really something of a spinoff from the falacy that the business world is actively working against the interests of women, which it assuredly is not.  So when you see an instance such as the womens national soccer team, by way of example, being paid less the automatic assumption is that evil men have done this to them, which is of course not true, but selling people fear does tend to work.

this is just whining by you

[Herbivore 905]

10 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

I think the bigger question is are they being paid proportionately?   X% of revenue generated. We need to look at apples to apples. Are they measuring growth to their leagues?  

Men's soccer is huge globally, but lower in the pecking order in the USA.  

USAWNT has been wonderful, but they just don't draw the same.

@TimmySmith maybe 

There might be something to this.  Motivating the youth to make soccer bigger here and in turn globally.  

I do believe the USWNT does have a bigger draw, but that could be maxxed out, USMNT has way more room to grow.

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

The women in the WNBA get paid 20% of the league revenue, about $12M.  They claim they're entitled to 50% like the men.  Fair, but the problem is that the men make a massive profit and the WNBA loses about $10M a year.  The WNBA makes $60M but including the $12M they spend on players salaries, the WNBA's yearly costs are $72M.  Keep in mind, that the $60M revenue money, includes the $12M that the NBA gives the WNBA every year for expenses, which means the WNBA really only generates $48M on their own.

If you take the $60M and give the players $30M, then the leagues yearly expenses will be around $90M.  In order for them to stay in business, the NBA will need to give the WNBA another $30M on top of the $12M they already give, just to let them pay their bills.  Of course, the players will say then, that they're only paid 33% and the cycle will continue.  It'll continue until there is no more WNBA.

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

7 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

don't know exactly, but from what i understand, that is the argument.  kind of don't believe your court statement

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/02/849492863/federal-judge-dismisses-u-s-womens-soccer-team-s-equal-pay-claim

[Bier Meister 1,513]

3 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

@TimmySmith maybe 

There might be something to this.  Motivating the youth to make soccer bigger here and in turn globally.  

I do believe the USWNT does have a bigger draw, but that could be maxxed out, USMNT has way more room to grow.

I really do not pay attention to attendance numbers, but i think that they put more butts in the seats when abroad than our USMNT.

[Herbivore 905]

5 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

https://www.npr.org/2020/05/02/849492863/federal-judge-dismisses-u-s-womens-soccer-team-s-equal-pay-claim

I don't know if that backs up your women get paid more statement..but valid to the overall argument they have for sure.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

Just now, Herbivore said:

I don't know if that backs up your women get paid more statement..but valid to the overall argument they have for sure.  

There are tons of articles out there on the decision, virtually all of them take the women's side of course, but in this article, they specifically note: "The judge pointed out that the women’s team had actually earned more “on both a cumulative and an average per-game basis” than the men’s team during the years in the lawsuit."

 

So yes, the decision was that the women made more than the men.

[Herbivore 905]

9 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

There are tons of articles out there on the decision, virtually all of them take the women's side of course, but in this article, they specifically note: "The judge pointed out that the women’s team had actually earned more “on both a cumulative and an average per-game basis” than the men’s team during the years in the lawsuit."

 

So yes, the decision was that the women made more than the men.

not arguing with, but not sure I buy that opinion..would like(not really) see the math on that point.  rapinoe states in that article that they wanted to play under the mens agreement, but werent allowed to.

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

8 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

not arguing with, but not sure I buy that opinion..would like(not really) see the math on that point.  rapinoe states in that article that they wanted to play under the mens agreement, but werent allowed to.

She's lying.  https://www.dailywire.com/news/u-s-womens-soccer-players-refused-the-same-pay-structure-as-men-now-theyre-claiming-sexism-led-to-difference

In that judges decision, he noted that they turned down the men's deal.

[Utilit99 4,099]

11 minutes ago, peenie said:

You don't mind watching women's gymnastics, skating, tennis, skiing, volleyball, track, soccer (people watch more women's soccer than men's soccer), diving and swimming, right? Maybe think about why it is that women's basketball is such a turnoff, not just to you guys, but the nation apparently. 

Who likes watching those things? I'm being serious from a guy's perspective. Gymnastics is 5 minute watch if it happens to be in front of me. Skating, not so much. Skiing, again maybe a 10 minute watch? Volleyball, some hot chicks on a tv show. You ogle at them for their bodies for a few minutes then move on. Track? No. Soccer? No. Diving? No. Swimming? No. 

Tennis? Maybe if it's the best two in the world and nothing else to do. But they get paid well for it.

So basically, most of what you bring up is geared towards people who watch the Olympics. And I would be surprised if guys here watch women's soccer. 

Women's sports are just boring on the professional level. There are a lot of men's sports that are boring as well. 

Money is associated with ratings and ticket sales and sponsorship deals. Nothing more.

[Vikings4ever 496]

13 minutes ago, peenie said:

You don't mind watching women's gymnastics, skating, tennis, skiing, volleyball, track, soccer (people watch more women's soccer than men's soccer), diving and swimming, right? Maybe think about why it is that women's basketball is such a turnoff, not just to you guys, but the nation apparently. 

Not that I watch personally, but gymnastics is one of the few sports women actually have an advantage over men. The women's national soccer team wins, while the men's team is a joke. Volleyball has fit (and often attractive) women in skimpy clothing. Is tennis really watched by a ton of people?

The rest, nobody cares about outside the Olympics. The WNBA has players regularly complaining about how little they're paid compared to the men, while still being subsidized by the men after 25 years in existence.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

6 minutes ago, peenie said:

You don't mind watching women's gymnastics, skating, tennis, skiing, volleyball, track, soccer (people watch more women's soccer than men's soccer), diving and swimming, right? Maybe think about why it is that women's basketball is such a turnoff, not just to you guys, but the nation apparently. 

NBA draws way better ratings than the NHL.  Take a moment and think as to why that is.  

Stop race baiting peenie.  JFC

[RLLD 3,455]

1 hour ago, Herbivore said:

this is just whining by you

Pot meet kettle....

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

30 minutes ago, peenie said:

You don't mind watching women's gymnastics, skating, tennis, skiing, volleyball, track, soccer (people watch more women's soccer than men's soccer), diving and swimming, right? Maybe think about why it is that women's basketball is such a turnoff, not just to you guys, but the nation apparently. 

Most of those sports, men only watch during the Olympics.  It's one thing to spend 2 weeks every 4 years to watch a sport and something totally different from watching it every other night for 4 months.  I used to watch women's sports regularly in the Olympics to support their efforts in representing our country, but many female athletes have made money a gender issue, so now I don't even watch them anymore.  Screw'em.  Well, that's for soccer and basketball anyway.  I still watch the other sports... expect for when the athletes (both men and women), mouth off.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

What % of women sports viewers watch the WNBA at the same or at a higher rate than they watch the NBA?

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

This article is why women's sports struggle.

 

The reason why women's sports isn't popular is because nobody actually cares except for the athletes.  Men, white men, are the biggest supporters of the WNBA, yet Bird feels it's necessary to call out men.  Women, of all races, have virtually NO interest in the WNBA.  More proof that she's full of crap, is even from a liberal rag.

Same for soccer.  Women are calling out their biggest supporters as the reason for their lack of popularity.  It shows a real disconnect from reality.  This is why other men don't care.  Any interest I had in or would've had in women's sports (specifically basketball - I never liked soccer, don't even watch the men), is gone.  I'm trying to help your sport by watching and attending some games (more than NBA games - as I haven't been to one in over 10 years), and you have the nerve to say I'm the problem!   Simply, fock off.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Just now, peenie said:

Race baiting? How was anything I wrote linked to race??? It was a sincere question. 

I won't put words in your mouth.  To me it looked like you were getting at people don't qatch the WNBA because they are majority black athletes.  

Maybe you meant they pay attention to better looking athletes in less clothing.  Which I would agree with you.

Maybe you weren't insinuating anything, but it sure read like you were.

If you weren't then I was wrong.   That is how I read it though.

[Utilit99 4,099]

3 minutes ago, peenie said:

Race baiting? How was anything I wrote linked to race??? It was a sincere question. 

I think it was this comment you made:

"Maybe think about why it is that women's basketball is such a turnoff,"

Why do you think women's basketball is such a turnoff for men?

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

3 minutes ago, peenie said:

How could I think it was race when women's tennis has Serena, Venus Williams and Naomi Osaka? Gymnastics has Simone Biles. I wasn't going for the race or gay angle. I was just asking why, I didn't have any preconceived notions. 

You should ask women this question, not men.  I posted a graphic that shows men are a bigger draw to the WNBA over women by about 4:1 as avid fans, and almost 2:1 as casual fans.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Just now, peenie said:

How could I think it was race when women's tennis has Serena, Venus Williams and Naomi Osaka? Gymnastics has Simone Biles. I wasn't going for the race or gay angle. I was just asking why, I didn't have any preconceived notions. 

You definitely phrased it weird as to you were asking us to maybe think why.

I was wrong if you say you weren't. 

No one pays much attention to many of those sports outaide the Olympics.  Olympics is a weird phenomenon where people watch to root for the USA even if they don't care about the sport.  I caught some US Men's water polo last time.  Why? I have no idea.  I was just rooting for the United States.

[Utilit99 4,099]

4 minutes ago, peenie said:

I didn't write that it was a turnoff for men. In fact, I wrote:

 

Ok. but why do you think it's not viewed favorably?

I don't view it favorably in the least because it bores me. Just like many television shows I've turned off in the past.

[Herbivore 905]

44 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Pot meet kettle....

no you are using this wrong.  my first statement in this thread was that agreed with the overall concept.

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Just now, peenie said:

Why would I ask women? I'm just adding my commentary to this topic. I'm discussing this with you all. First I made the point to mention that men do watch women's sports. So, that means it's not that there is a complete bias against women. I mentioned tennis, soccer, skating etc. It had nothing to do with race because people black women dominate track. I was just joining in with the discussion. Not sure why you all are so triggered.

You asked us to maybe think why it wasn't popular.  

To me you are insinuating that you have an answer and are challenging us to find it.  

We can move on.  I was wrong apparently.  Maybe it is just a cultural difference with how you phrased the question and how I read the question.

[Herbivore 905]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

She's lying.  https://www.dailywire.com/news/u-s-womens-soccer-players-refused-the-same-pay-structure-as-men-now-theyre-claiming-sexism-led-to-difference

In that judges decision, he noted that they turned down the men's deal.

maybe she is lying

[listen2me 23 1,541]

Just now, peenie said:

For future, in what way could I have phrased the question that would have been less off-putting or less finger pointing at you?

You start off saying "you guys" ...dont mind watching this and that.  An assumption because I bet a lot of "us guys" don't watch a lick of what you mentioned.  

Take the maybe out.  If it is just a real question then why wouldn't you say...." i dont know, I wonder why the WNBA isn't popular?" 

You are asking a rhetorical question when you say "you guys should maybe think of why". 

Lol it really isn't hard to see and I dont care.  Misunderstanding.  But you phrased it REALLY weird if you were just asking out loud "i wonder why wnba isnt as popular as women's tennis?". 

[Utilit99 4,099]

6 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

You start off saying "you guys" ...dont mind watching this and that.  An assumption because I bet a lot of "us guys" don't watch a lick of what you mentioned.  

Take the maybe out.  If it is just a real question then why wouldn't you say...." i dont know, I wonder why the WNBA isn't popular?" 

You are asking a rhetorical question when you say "you guys should maybe think of why". 

Lol it really isn't hard to see and I dont care.  Misunderstanding.  But you phrased it REALLY weird if you were just asking out loud "i wonder why wnba isnt as popular as women's tennis?". 

It was a simple case of race baiting. Case closed. I hate men's basketball too, they are mostly black, I must be racist. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

6 minutes ago, peenie said:

The thing is, I watched the video clip and saw the women's basketball players rolling down the street in the parade with no one cheering for them. I was just asking you guys why do you think that people aren't hyped about the WNBA. I even put that I don't mean "you guys" I meant "the nation". I try not to be too wordy but will take care to phrase things with the awareness that a racial slant may be perceived because you all know I'm black. 

It's a simple answer. The WNBA is boring. Else people would be watching it.

[jerryskids 5,191]

48 minutes ago, peenie said:

The thing is, I watched the video clip and saw the women's basketball players rolling down the street in the parade with no one cheering for them. I was just asking you guys why do you think that people aren't hyped about the WNBA. I even put that I don't mean "you guys" I meant "the nation". I try not to be too wordy but will take care to phrase things with the awareness that a racial slant may be perceived because you all know I'm black. 

I don't really watch it although I did watch some of the Finals (Phoenix Mercury were the opponent).  The city of Phoenix was kinda into it, and Taurasi is a great interview (I'd have a beer with her, she seems fun).  But in general I don't watch it because, well, I'm not really impressed with the product I'm seeing, perhaps because I played at a competitive level.  Nothing misogynistic about it.  For the "olympic" sports mentioned, for both sexes I'll generally only watch during the olympics.  I might catch a US Figure Skating championship I suppose.  But skiing etc.?  Nah.

Some sports like golf and tennis, I've played and I'm still impressed with the product.  Softball I've watched some although baseball was one of my main sports; those pitches come in hella fast from the closer mounds, and the game seems a little different perhaps because of the smaller fields, so it is more to scale.

MMA is one I'll watch if it is part of a card, and there is a bizarre... something about women beating the crap out of each other maybe?  But having done martial arts, sorry, I'm not impressed with the standup game at all.  Groundfighting, sure, I can appreciate the skill to get someone into a submission hold.  

[supermike80 1,285]

16 hours ago, Utilit99 said:

Who likes watching those things? I'm being serious from a guy's perspective. Gymnastics is 5 minute watch if it happens to be in front of me. Skating, not so much. Skiing, again maybe a 10 minute watch? Volleyball, some hot chicks on a tv show. You ogle at them for their bodies for a few minutes then move on. Track? No. Soccer? No. Diving? No. Swimming? No. 

Tennis? Maybe if it's the best two in the world and nothing else to do. But they get paid well for it.

So basically, most of what you bring up is geared towards people who watch the Olympics. And I would be surprised if guys here watch women's soccer. 

Women's sports are just boring on the professional level. There are a lot of men's sports that are boring as well. 

Money is associated with ratings and ticket sales and sponsorship deals. Nothing more.

The thing is for me the only time I like most of those things are during the olympics.  Outside of that, I don't care.  Diving and gymnastics were pretty cool to watch, once every 4 years.  

[Cantaloupe 44]

18 hours ago, Bier Meister said:

I think the bigger question is are they being paid proportionately?   X% of revenue generated. We need to look at apples to apples. Are they measuring growth to their leagues?  

Men's soccer is huge globally, but lower in the pecking order in the USA.  

USAWNT has been wonderful, but they just don't draw the same.

If they go by revenue generated then the players would be paying to play.

[RLLD 3,455]

16 hours ago, Herbivore said:

no you are using this wrong.  my first statement in this thread was that agreed with the overall concept.

No I have captured you spot on.  

[TBayXXXVII 2,114]

20 minutes ago, Cantaloupe Fingerbang said:

If they go by revenue generated then the players would be paying to play.

Yup.  The WNBA loses over $10M a season... and that's even counting the money the NBA gives them.

[RLLD 3,455]

To be fair, I don't bother with the NBA....so the WNBA is also not on my watch list.

[Herbivore 905]

26 minutes ago, RLLD said:

No I have captured you spot on.  

now your using captured and spot on wrong..and stop whining.  

[Utilit99 4,099]

1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

The thing is for me the only time I like most of those things are during the olympics.  Outside of that, I don't care.  Diving and gymnastics were pretty cool to watch, once every 4 years.  

Yeah. When it comes to women's sport popularity, you can't really include the olympic events in gauging your average sports fan interest level. That's more about international competition. Hell, I would probably watch marbles' competitions at least some if it were an olympic event. 

[RLLD 3,455]

12 minutes ago, Herbivore said:

now your using captured and spot on wrong..and stop whining.  

 

Uh oh, someone is whining about me again....

[DonS 3,067]

Let's hear it for the sport where women dominate! 

(also with toe tapping techno music)