Alec Baldwin killed a woman

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

1 hour ago, GobbleDog said:

What if you're an actor shooting a cannon, bazooka, or a tank?

I could be wrong, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that these particular weapons are NOT using live rounds.  I'm also willing to go out on a limb and guess that they're all shot using trick photography, green screens, and/or CGI.

[The Real timschochet 2,872]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yeah, the best way to make a name for yourself, as a Democrat, is to charge a well known Trump-hating Democrat of a gun crime (of all things), that Democrats didn't expect anything to happen to.  

I haven’t really considered this in terms of politics. Alec Baldwin is a liberal, but he’s also a schmuck. I’ve never liked the guy. Remember that phone call of him yelling at his daughter? What kind of guy acts like that? He’s always struck me as an entitled, pompous jerk. 
 

That being said, I really didn’t think this situation deserves some kind of legal penalty. I’m still not sure about that, though I have to admit that some of the arguments made in this thread have been quite compelling. 

[League Champion 1,593]

I almost feel bad for him but hammering a live round, pointing it at someone and squeezing the trigger is murder no matter how you slice it. 

[GobbleDog 815]

19 minutes ago, League Champion said:

I almost feel bad for him but hammering a live round, pointing it at someone and squeezing the trigger is murder no matter how you slice it. 

"Involuntary manslaughter"

[craftsman 1,045]

22 minutes ago, League Champion said:

I almost feel bad for him but hammering a live round, pointing it at someone and squeezing the trigger is murder no matter how you slice it. 

 

2 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

"Involuntary manslaughter"

I'm no expert on criminal law, but is there some kind of criminally negligent resulting in the death of someone? Or is that the definition of Involuntary Manslaughter? I'm thinking the latter now that I type it out.  

[League Champion 1,593]

3 hours ago, GobbleDog said:

What if you're an actor shooting a cannon, bazooka, or a tank

I take it you're not a gun owner or enthusiast?

The ONLY one responsible for that weapon is whoever fired that round. It's his job to know what's chambered. He chambered it, he pointed it and he squeezed the trigger.

He got off light IMO. 

[GobbleDog 815]

23 minutes ago, League Champion said:

I take it you're not a gun owner or enthusiast?

Are you kidding? I've got a cache of Magnum P-I .48 calibers upgraded with tri-pods, mega-lazer scopes, and big d*ck enhancers.

[League Champion 1,593]

8 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Are you kidding? I've got a cache of Magnum P-I .48 calibers upgraded with tri-pods, mega-lazer scopes, and big d*ck enhancers.

Then you should be very familiar with firearm etiquette. He wasn't 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,493]

11 minutes ago, GobbleDog said:

Are you kidding? I've got a cache of Magnum P-I .48 calibers upgraded with tri-pods, mega-lazer scopes, and big d*ck enhancers.

Clearly not a gun owner. 

[League Champion 1,593]

2 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Clearly not a gun owner. 

I would die to have a Magnum PI and a Don Johnson in my safe 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,493]

1 minute ago, League Champion said:

I would die to have a Magnum PI and a Don Johnson in my safe 

I already have a John Rambo and John Matrix in mine.

[League Champion 1,593]

4 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

I already have a John Rambo and John Matrix in mine.

Bragger! 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,588]

He needs some prison time.Other  people go for a lot less. 

[Tree of Knowledge 822]

I’m fine with him getting life without parole for this crime.  

[Alias Detective 1,179]

14 hours ago, League Champion said:

Then you should be very familiar with firearm etiquette. He wasn't 

I like your style.  Gobblegoop turned his tail and booked away.  

[League Champion 1,593]

22 minutes ago, Alias Detective said:

I like your style.  Gobblegoop turned his tail and booked away.  

Thank you Sir 

[craftsman 1,045]

Dude killed someone out of his own lazy neglectful acts. And to add insult to death, he and his lawyer are fighting hard to blame coworkers. The guy is bottom of the barrel human.

[TBayXXXVII 2,106]

16 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I haven’t really considered this in terms of politics. Alec Baldwin is a liberal, but he’s also a schmuck. I’ve never liked the guy. Remember that phone call of him yelling at his daughter? What kind of guy acts like that? He’s always struck me as an entitled, pompous jerk. 
 

That being said, I really didn’t think this situation deserves some kind of legal penalty. I’m still not sure about that, though I have to admit that some of the arguments made in this thread have been quite compelling. 

Everything at the federal court level is about politics.  Judges and DA's are appointed positions.  They're put in place by elected officials to push their political agenda's at the court level.

[Pimpadeaux 2,243]

Focker brought this on himself, and involuntary manslaughter is the right call.

[Mike Hunt 153]

18 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I haven’t really considered this in terms of politics. Alec Baldwin is a liberal, but he’s also a schmuck. I’ve never liked the guy. Remember that phone call of him yelling at his daughter? What kind of guy acts like that? He’s always struck me as an entitled, pompous jerk. 
 

That being said, I really didn’t think this situation deserves some kind of legal penalty. I’m still not sure about that, though I have to admit that some of the arguments made in this thread have been quite compelling. 

Also a homophobe.  Been caught using gay slurs more than once.

Baldwin in real life is pretty much a POS as a person. That being said I am sure did not not mean to kill a person, but he is responsible for the death.

[avoiding injuries 1,220]

I bet nobody saw it ending like this…

 

 

[jonnyutah 121]

On 1/19/2023 at 12:39 PM, GobbleDog said:

What if you're an actor shooting a cannon, bazooka, or a tank? Check the cannon, bazooka or tank?  What if the scene calls for shooting a machine gun with bullets on a ribbon? Check every bullet in the ribbon? Surely there's some weapons or scenarios where it's impracticable, and actors have to rely on professionals, no?

I agree in this situation - checking a revolver is about as simple as it gets.

Should stunt drivers check the brakes? 

[League Champion 1,593]

It's a very simple concept. He chambered a round, pointed the firearm, squeezed the trigger and killed someone. 

Case closed 

[Mike Honcho 4,009]

On 1/21/2023 at 4:52 AM, League Champion said:

It's a very simple concept. He chambered a round, pointed the firearm, squeezed the trigger and killed someone. 

Case closed 

He didn't chamber a round. 

[edjr 5,547]

On 1/21/2023 at 4:52 AM, League Champion said:

It's a very simple concept. He chambered a round, pointed the firearm, squeezed the trigger and killed someone. 

Case closed 

[League Champion 1,593]

3 Hots and a Cot 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,493]

23 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

He didn't chamber a round. 

It doesn't matter.  You're making a distinction without a difference.

Baldwin wasn't the only one responsible, but ultimately he was the last stop that could have prevented her death and he was negligent.  The #1 rule is to always handle the gun as if it's loaded and that you holding the gun are supposed to ensure that it is not regardless of whether someone assured you it wasn't.  Not only that, he didn't need to be practicing by pointing the weapon at the camera.  The guns should not have been loaded at all - even with blanks - when practicing.

When I practice my draw at home I'm pointing at a cement wall, downstairs even though I know the gun is unloaded because I've checked it beforehand.

[League Champion 1,593]

23 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

He didn't chamber a round. 

Calm down Johnny Know It All. 

He loaded a round, is that better?? 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,493]

2 minutes ago, League Champion said:

Calm down Johnny Know It All. 

He loaded a round, is that better?? 

It doesn't matter whether he did or not.  It was his responsibility to check to make sure it WASN'T loaded with blanks or live rounds or anything else.  Honcho is trolling.  It should not have been loaded at all if he was practicing AND he should not have been pointing it at the camera/people.  You never point a weapon at a person when practicing.

[League Champion 1,593]

1 minute ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

It was his responsibility to check to make sure it WASN'T loaded with blanks or live rounds or anything else

This EXACTLY

[Mike Honcho 4,009]

19 minutes ago, League Champion said:

Calm down Johnny Know It All. 

He loaded a round, is that better?? 

Yeah, he didn't do that either.

 

17 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

It doesn't matter whether he did or not.  It was his responsibility to check to make sure it WASN'T loaded with blanks or live rounds or anything else.  Honcho is trolling.  It should not have been loaded at all if he was practicing AND he should not have been pointing it at the camera/people.  You never point a weapon at a person when practicing.

I'm not trolling, the guy said he chambered a round, now he's saying he loaded it.  He did neither, he was handed a gun with a loaded round. If the guy is going to say "case closed" he should at least know the facts of the case.

[jonmx 1,558]

On 1/19/2023 at 5:25 PM, The Real timschochet said:

I haven’t really considered this in terms of politics. Alec Baldwin is a liberal, but he’s also a schmuck. I’ve never liked the guy. Remember that phone call of him yelling at his daughter? What kind of guy acts like that? He’s always struck me as an entitled, pompous jerk. 
 

That being said, I really didn’t think this situation deserves some kind of legal penalty. I’m still not sure about that, though I have to admit that some of the arguments made in this thread have been quite compelling. 

A kid who was clearly attacked by a pychopath and a mob with a clear intent to kill him, all captured on video, deserves to stand trial for 1st degree murder, but Alec f-ing Baldwin should not stand trial for manslaughter?   

[joneo 529]

On 1/19/2023 at 4:29 PM, League Champion said:

I almost feel bad for him but hammering a live round, pointing it at someone and squeezing the trigger is murder no matter how you slice it. 

Technically,  not murder... the legal definition is Manslaughter 

[Ultra Max Power 214]

Baldwin had ANOTHER live round on his belt...  What a show this was and he was running it. 

[joneo 529]

https://ibb.co/6r42KLB

[Mike Honcho 4,009]

Couple of things struck me while thinking about this over the weekend.

The first is if their was complacency on the set in terms of safety, why is Baldwin the only producer facing charges? The film has 5 other people listed as producers. 

Secondly, despite the repeated statements at the FFT, it seems that standard policy is that an actor does not examine the guns, specifically because they are untrained to do so.

Quote

 

SAG-AFTRA released the following statement on today's news regarding charges in the Rust tragedy.

"The death of Halyna Hutchins is a tragedy, and all the more so because of its preventable nature. It is not a failure of duty or a criminal act on the part of any performer. 

"The prosecutor's contention that an actor has a duty to ensure the functional and mechanical operation of a firearm on a production set is wrong and uninformed. An actor’s job is not to be a firearms or weapons expert. Firearms are provided for their use under the guidance of multiple expert professionals directly responsible for the safe and accurate operation of that firearm. In addition, the employer is always responsible for providing a safe work environment at all times, including hiring and supervising the work of professionals trained in weapons. 

"The Industry Standards for safety with firearms and use of blank ammunition are clearly laid out in Safety Bulletin 1, provided by the Joint Industry-Wide Labor Management Safety Commission. The guidelines require an experienced, qualified armorer to be put in charge of all handling, use and safekeeping of firearms on set. These duties include 'inspecting the firearm and barrel before and after every firing sequence,' and 'checking all firearms before each use.'  

"The guidelines do not make it the performer’s responsibility to check any firearm. Performers train to perform, and they are not required or expected to be experts on guns or experienced in their use. The industry assigns that responsibility to qualified professionals who oversee their use and handling in every aspect. Anyone issued a firearm on set must be given training and guidance in its safe handling and use, but all activity with firearms on a set must be under the careful supervision and control of the professional armorer and the employer."

 

Third, based on what we know, the setup, where Baldwin was in relation to the camera, this was to be a head on shot. The gun therefore would have been loaded with dummy rounds(look like bullets, but have had the gunpowder removed). Without the dummy rounds, you see right through the chambers of the revolver. So, the expectation that the 'actor' check the gun, but also that the actor know the difference between live rounds and dummy rounds is pretty absurd. Again, that's why Property Masters and Weapons Masters are hired. 

Because only Baldwin was brought up on charges and not any of the other producers, I think the DA is going after more for his involvement as an actor and if that's the case, my prediction is not guilty on both charges. If she does go after him for running a shoddy production, I'll be very interested in hearing why she didn't charge anyone else. 

[Strike 3,949]

36 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Couple of things struck me while thinking about this over the weekend.

The first is if their was complacency on the set in terms of safety, why is Baldwin the only producer facing charges? The film has 5 other people listed as producers. 

Secondly, despite the repeated statements at the FFT, it seems that standard policy is that an actor does not examine the guns, specifically because they are untrained to do so.

Third, based on what we know, the setup, where Baldwin was in relation to the camera, this was to be a head on shot. The gun therefore would have been loaded with dummy rounds(look like bullets, but have had the gunpowder removed). Without the dummy rounds, you see right through the chambers of the revolver. So, the expectation that the 'actor' check the gun, but also that the actor know the difference between live rounds and dummy rounds is pretty absurd. Again, that's why Property Masters and Weapons Masters are hired. 

Because only Baldwin was brought up on charges and not any of the other producers, I think the DA is going after more for his involvement as an actor and if that's the case, my prediction is not guilty on both charges. If she does go after him for running a shoddy production, I'll be very interested in hearing why she didn't charge anyone else. 

ROFLMAO.  It's like you don't even read the links you're relying on.   I could dissect your post one point at a time, and I may later when I have more time, but I'll just post the following, which I copied from your link:

Quote

Refrain from pointing a firearm at anyone, including yourself.

It seems like Mr. Baldwin violated that guideline, and it seems like one of the most important ones.  Game, set, match.

[Alias Detective 1,179]

Guns shoot themselves, not the person using it.

                                                                         -Alec Baldwin

 

 

[EternalShinyAndChrome 2,493]

47 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Couple of things struck me while thinking about this over the weekend.

The first is if their was complacency on the set in terms of safety, why is Baldwin the only producer facing charges? The film has 5 other people listed as producers. 

Secondly, despite the repeated statements at the FFT, it seems that standard policy is that an actor does not examine the guns, specifically because they are untrained to do so.

Third, based on what we know, the setup, where Baldwin was in relation to the camera, this was to be a head on shot. The gun therefore would have been loaded with dummy rounds(look like bullets, but have had the gunpowder removed). Without the dummy rounds, you see right through the chambers of the revolver. So, the expectation that the 'actor' check the gun, but also that the actor know the difference between live rounds and dummy rounds is pretty absurd. Again, that's why Property Masters and Weapons Masters are hired. 

Because only Baldwin was brought up on charges and not any of the other producers, I think the DA is going after more for his involvement as an actor and if that's the case, my prediction is not guilty on both charges. If she does go after him for running a shoddy production, I'll be very interested in hearing why she didn't charge anyone else. 

It doesn't f'n matter what SAG-AFTRA thinks or whatever setup they have, this is State/Federal Law.  That trumps all.  You or I would be facing chargers had we done the exact same thing.

[Mike Honcho 4,009]

29 minutes ago, Strike said:

ROFLMAO.  It's like you don't even read the links you're relying on.   I could dissect your post one point at a time, and I may later when I have more time, but I'll just post the following, which I copied from your link:

It seems like Mr. Baldwin violated that guideline, and it seems like one of the most important ones.  Game, set, match.

You know that refrain is not the same as 'never' or 'do not'.  Pretty sure you have seen movies where people have pointed guns at other people.  If the rest of your point-by-point analysis is going to be like this first point, don't bother with anymore. 

Also, the Match will be decided by a jury.

25 minutes ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

It doesn't f'n matter what SAG-AFTRA thinks or whatever setup they have, this is State/Federal Law.  That trumps all.  You or I would be facing chargers had we done the exact same thing.

You are correct, but it will make a huge difference to a court if in no way was he supposed to do anything but "act" with the prop. If he did everything by industry standards and was others did not do their jobs it will make a huge difference to a jury. From earlier.

 

Quote

 

To prove involuntary manslaughter (from legalmatch.com ) you  need to show three things; someone died as a result of the an action by the defendant;  the act was inherently dangerous or reckless; and third the defendant should have known the act threatened the lives of others.

 

 

If per industry standards and guidelines he's not supposed to play with, open inspect, check the gun without an armorer present, and was told by the designee of the armorer that everything is a good to go, then how do you show "the defendant should have known the act threatened the lives of others"